A whole new car company strategy idea .....

[Stinky The Clown]

First, we need to get some structural issues solved. The biggest one is the idea that US car companies have to get unburdened from legacy and current health care costs.

That's easy.

Single payer.

Next is the idea that everyone in Congress has a hard on for hybrids or electric cars but no one wants to face the fact that they are VERY EXPENSIVE to build. We learned in the last little while that Toyota has lost money on every Prius ever built.

The Chevrolet Volt will cost on the far side of FORTY THOUSAND DOLLARS. Which is probably very near where a Prius needs to be priced. And all the other hybrids.

Now ..... let's look at the television business. A new technology came along. Digital television. For whatever reason (some not so good, but can we argue that elsewhere?) Congress decided they wanted all televisions to be digital.

So they passed a law saying so.

No non digital televisions after some date certain. they adjusted that date certain a few times, but now here we are.

And the set makers responded. Tube teevees were clearly old technology that no one wanted. So they dumped them on the market. 32" super teevees (tube type, non-digital, of course) for a hundred and fifty bux. Meanwhile, the new digital and HD hardware was coming on line.

For way, way more than the cost of a tube set.

WAY more.

Consumerville got used to it and the market was launched. At pricing favorable to the teevee makers and, oddly, no one on the consumer side was bitching all that much.

All because Congress passed a law.

I therefore propose that we outlaw petroleum fueled cars (for the sake of this law, natural gas is not 'petroleum') on March 5, 2012.

Every car maker will be rolling in dough. They will, at first, be making fewer cars as we work through those last few million brand spanking new petrocars that have a 10 year life span. Meanwhile, newtech cars are coming online at profitable price points and at a pace that allows for other than a fever pitch growth, with new technology coming out apace with demand.

And everyone in America has single payer health care.

Knock holes in this idea ........

[mdmc]

1. I won't buy a new tv

I wonder if my pc will be able to pick up signals...

:kick:R - no holes to punch..

[crispini]

2. You just need a digital converter box

You can pick up a coupon here:

https://www.dtv2009.gov/

[.... callchet ....]

4. Autos ?

End game. We are on the brink of destruction. My wife was a hair stylist at a leased location. The owner of the building blew up about the parking situation and told me that he was not going to renew the lease when it was up in two months. I told everyone in the salon what he said and everybody hated me for it ! What does it take to face reality ? How many people have to die at an intersection before they put up traffic signs ? The auto companies have to work. We need the 2.5 million workers spending their money. We need a lot of money to be spent. We need cheap energy so more people can be put back to work. Work and spend. Trillions of dollars tied up in the stock market, banks and whatever don't do anything except first create inflation and then depression. Illogical environmental laws inflate prices and price the USA out of the market. Reduced income tax rates on higher brackets let huge fortunes be accumulated then stagnation and deflation and then depression ! Money has to be spent. Denying universal health care to the poor is the same as saying "I wish you were dead ". Let's cut some foreign aid, useless government programs (Where fewer people are employed at great cost) More people die from poor health care than handguns. Spend money on our own people. Let the autoworkers work ! I heard the head of AIG say that they had to keep the high salaries, bonuses and perks or else they would lose the talented people. The treatment of the UAW is like saying, anybody can do your job. Well I say the same to Aig. Regardless of what the general consensus is, there has to be a lot of changes and a lot of money spent. Invest in the future of the USA and save the world at the same time.

[mdmc]

5. welcome to du

peace bro

[madokie]

22. Electric can give us that low cost option

My neighbor has a geo something that he converted to electric drive a couple years ago and he can go 50 60 miles on less than a dollar of electric. He spent 2500 bux on the conversion and the car was free so its been pretty good for him.

[NMDemDist2]

24. Obama need to make good on his promise though

of rebuilding our electric grid to handle that much load and to be able to move the power generated out in the middle of nowhere on the solar and wind farms back into the urban centers.

we have a HUGE windfarm 50 or so miles away, but I live in bumf@#k nowhere.

it all has to come together like a 'perfect storm'

[madokie]

31. I hear you

Our grid as it is can pretty much handle the added load because most of the EV's would be recharged at night when the demand is low and the generators are having to turn anyway for the ones who do need power at that time of the night. By adding the chargers will only put a bigger load on the system than what it already had due to it being at night. As they build new wind and solar plants they need to be building the infrastructure required to get it to us the customers. All or most of this should be done by our government where possible, IMO. I'm thinking PE Obama is on top of all this and I trust he has what it will take to get us onto the right road once again. We have a couple pretty good sized wind farm near here. We, my wife and I and our son and his family pay a premium for wind power now. Together we gonna win this one, I promise

[crispini]

3. Cute, but it'll never pass.

Not politically viable.

For one thing, people can still use their old TVs by buying an inexpensive converter box. If you're proposing making everyone buy new, eco-friendly cars, can you imagine the protests? Ye cats.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. That's answered in the part about a glut of gas powered cars at cheap prices

It will take as long as ten years to use them up. That time period is the real transition.

[MercutioATC]

7. Make me a performance electric sedan with decent range and we'll talk.

...and no, the Tesla doesn't count...only two seats.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. How about natural gas? Or fuel cell? Or a natgas/electric hybrid?

The point is, at the outset, there will likely be competing technologies. One will win out.

Or not.

But worry not. You'll have a fine replacement for your favored Audis. Maybe even another Audi.

How about steam?

Or compressed air?

[MercutioATC]

11. That's all I'm asking. A big, fast sedan. It can run on manure for all I care.

I believe that once we throw some really serious research into this and pare the possibilities down to the most promising, we'll see an alternative fuel that will meet this demand.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. There's no doubt whatsoever. It **will** happen.

And that's one of the reasons why I proposed this drop dead date.

We did it with refrigerants.

Hell, Sweden did it way back in, like, 1963 or 64 with the side of the road on which they drove.

This is how we'll do it with metric.

.... what else?

[MercutioATC]

14. The teraflop computer.

Back in the 80's, they said it would take something like 20 years. It became a goal, and they did it in 7.

I think that once we get serious about alternative fuels, the same thing will happen.

Obviously, petroleum is too cheap to make it market-driven, so legislating it would be necessary at this point.

[pokercat999]

19. Look here, don't know how many seats but they're talking

1000HP !!! 200 + MPH all electric.

http://www.shelbysupercars.com/news-071208.php

[MercutioATC]

20. Nice, but 2-seater and limited production.

...and I'll bet the pricetag is north of $200k.

[ContinentalOp]

8. Toyota has NOT lost money on every Prius ever built. That's just another Detroit lie...

that keeps getting trotted out. I'm not even going to bother looking this up again and posting links because the idea is so silly that only a Big 3 brainwashed idiot would buy it in the first place.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. That's convincing .......

"a Big 3 brainwashed idiot"

Here's the fact ... no one can say for sure unless one sees Toyota's internal balance sheets.

Have you?

[ContinentalOp]

13. If you admit that nobody knows for sure then why do you say they're losing money...

as though it's a fact? Toyota says that they have been making a profit on the Prius since 2001. Are they lying to their shareholders? In a thread last night, somebody threw out the figure of a $2500 per vehicle loss. Do you honestly believe that Toyota lost $2.5 billion on the first million Priuses they sold? Do you really think they would have continued to produce and sell the car for over a decade if that were the case?

The idea that they lose money on every Prius comes from industry "analysts" who are probably paid by the Big 3 to produce anti-hybrid FUD. Probably some of the same people who dreamed up that "Prius has a bigger environmental impact than a Hummer" nonsense.

[ContinentalOp]

21. *crickets*

Just as I expected. You assert that hybrids and electric cars are impractical because they are too expensive to build and that the Prius should cost about the same as a Volt, implying that Toyota is losing almost $20,000 per car. But when challenged, you can't back up these ridiculous assertions with any kind of facts. It doesn't matter. The damage has been done, the lie repeated and the convenient urban legend lives on another day. We could have had electric cars 30 years ago if it weren't for this kind of persistent propaganda and disinformation that's constantly used against them.

[Stinky The Clown]

25. Gee, I'm sorry I was out. Were you here tapping your foot that whole time?

By the way, since you started off by calling me an idiot, I'm not replying to your point. If you have something to back up what YOU say, post it.



I still have no intention of replying, though. I just want to see oyu do the work that you must be soooo tired of doing (as you so helpfully point out in your initial reply).

[ContinentalOp]

26. Yeah, you should see my calf by now. -nt-

[dysfunctional press]

15. who's going to buy the last of the gas-powered cars? not i. you?

:shrug: anybody?

[Stinky The Clown]

17. A $10,000 Escalade will sell very fast.

[dysfunctional press]

18. and why is cadillac selling them for $10,000?

another law?

[Stinky The Clown]

27. Oh jeeze ........

.... did you **both** read **and** comprehend the OP?

I used the teevee biz as an example of what might happen.

Teevee makers dumped the tube teevees they used to make for pennies on the dollar just before they phased them out. I am postulating (postulating - look it up) the same would happen to gas powered cars just before they become obsolete by virtue of a change in laws.

[dysfunctional press]

28. for the manufacturer, there's a lot more invested in an escalade than a tv

it's not a logical comparison.

it's also a whole different thing for the buyers- they have to be concerned if parts are going to be available over the life of their purchase. as well as the price/availability of fuel for the same time span.

[LanternWaste]

32. I will...

Sure. I will.

[NV Whino]

16. So where can I get a coupon

for a converter box for my car? (Hondas last considerably longer than 10 years.)

[IDemo]

23. Answer: the "converter box" equivalent for gasoline-powered autos

Get the Big Three to license this technology and apply it to existing models at a much lower cost than the R & D for new hybrids:

http://www.poulsenhybrid.com/

[.... callchet ....]

29. Refrigerants

Commenting about refrigerants and the progress in laws. I applied for a license to handle the new refrigerants and to handle refrigerants in general. I believe the material I was furnished indicated that there was no data supporting that the new refrigerants would have any less impact on the environment. The problem with laws is that they have no basis in reason. They start out with a concept and then it gets blown out of proportion. Then all reason is lost because the supporters and opponents then become emotional. I was a radical left wing supporter of clean air. I was an elected official in my local Union 1784 UM WA Oak Park Mine Cadiz, Ohio. Please read this: http://www.argee.net/Thrawn%20Rickle/Thrawn%20Rickle%2036.htm . Then for a further boost in your faith in big industry read this http://environment.about.com/od/fossilfuels/a/streetcars.htm . The bottom line is that changes can be made and they have been made, but a new rule has to be implicated. Oversight based on human rights. I was involved in strikes, I was involved in demonstrations, I gave a speech in Cleveland at a meeting of support for the Teamsters. Bottom line is we get in fights and lose the overall perspective. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. "For All" The little battles take our mind off the real war.

[.... callchet ....]

30. P. S. Auto industry

"And if it saves just one life"! ! Why not have a national speed limit of 45 MPH, make cars weigh only 2000 lbs, have 50 horsepower and be loaded with air bags.