Coleman camp projects win, if court helps

[babylonsister]

Coleman camp projects win, if court helps
By Michael O'Brien
Posted: 12/22/08 01:26 PM


Sen. Norm Coleman’s (R) campaign said Monday it expected to defeat Democrat Al Franken in the Minnesota Senate race — but only if the Minnesota Supreme Court grants them a key victory in a lawsuit.

Coleman campaign officials told reporters that they would be ahead of Franken after the withdrawn ballot challenges lodged by campaigns are included in the final total, but only if the count was “legal” — meaning roughly 150 duplicate ballots expected to favor Franken aren’t included in the tally.

The Coleman campaign has filed a lawsuit in the Minnesota Supreme Court arguing that a number of “duplicate ballots” — copies of ballots created by local officials to mirror damaged ballots — were counted twice during the state’s hand recount.

“The inclusion of duplicate votes violates the principle of one person, one vote,” said Coleman campaign manager Cullen Sheehan. “Our message today is simple and clear: If the balance of this process is completed fairly and legally, Norm Coleman will be in the lead.”

Marc Elias, a lawyer for the Franken campaign, disputed the claim.

"There is no evidence that any ballot has been counted twice. None," Elias said in an e-mail to The Hill. "The Coleman campaign has failed to show any legal or factual basis for their claim on this issue."

more...

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/coleman-camp-projects-win-if-court-helps-2008-12-22.html

[JI7]

1. so he expects to win as long as all the votes aren't counted

ok

[Belial]

3. you gotta admit

If you saw how they were counting them.. he has a point.. LOL

[Jane Austin]

5. Normie?

Is that you?

[Belial]

2. Figure this one out..

http://senaterecount.startribune.com/media/ballotPDFs/minneapolis_4_8_challengedballot3.pdf

[Common Sense Party]

4. What's to figure out? Why is that ballot being challenged? n/t

[TroglodyteScholar]

8. Find out what "no dup" means, and you'll have your answer. n/t

:shrug:

[Common Sense Party]

10. Oh, I see that now.

But that ballot looks pretty clearly marked for Coleman. There's no two ways of looking at that.

[ramblin_dave]

7. That is an original ballot that has no duplicate

Some ballots have creases or other defects that make them unreadable by optical scanners, especially absentee ballots that are folded and mailed. Election officials replace these with duplicates that are fed through the scanners. For every defective 'original' there should be a 'duplicate' which is stored separetely. This is a ballot that is being challenged because the duplicate could not be located. During the hand recount the originals only should be counted. If a duplicate can't be found then there is a possibility it was put in the pile with the originals and thus these votes are being counted twice.

[louis-t]

6. "If the court lets us cheat, we will surely win"

Norm Coleman

[KamaAina]

9. Bush camp projects win, if court helps

Only the names, the dates, and the courts involved change...

[book_worm]

11. What is the political make up of the MN Supreme Court?

Has Pawlenty been able to influence the state court?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

12. My fear is Coleman MAY have a point when it comes to duplicate ballots.

I thought I read somewhere, according to MN. law, all duplicates MUST be attached to the original. One would think the MSM articles would mention the actual LAW but that would be all too "fact-y".

The question is what would be the net effect if ALL duplicates are removed? Would any candidate have an advantage?

[Statistical]

13. Facts get in the way of commercial time.

Seriously I think Coleman is just throwing everything out there with the hope that one "manuver" puts him over the top.

On the other hand it did look like a cluster-F*** when they were recounting.

I don't understand how these things are so hard.

Of course voters don't make it easy.
Some fill in dot, some x it, some fill in and then x, some fill in and use x to mark mistake, etc.

There should be some standard. An electronic machine that print out the paper ballot.
Perfect, clean, no ambiguity. <- Key point is machine w/ paper I don't trust electronic only.

[spanone]

14. if......

[Mister Ed]

15. Seems to me it should be simple to prove or disprove Coleman's claim

When a ballot can't be read by the scanner due to folding or other physical distortion, it is photocopied and the copy is fed through the scanner instead. The Coleman campaign says that there are some instances in the recount where both the distorted original and the photocopy were counted.

In any precinct where that occurred, the total number of senate votes counted in the recount would be seen to exceed the total number of voters who were recorded on election night. The photocopied ballots could be compared to folded originals, and matches found.

The matches would be easy to spot, on close examination. Besides having the same votes in every race, they would bear the same distinguishing marks - say, for example, the pen strayed ever so slightly out of the left side of the oval in this race, and out the right side in that.

Labor-intensive, to be sure, but the whole recount is labor-intensive, and the object is accuracy.

[Patsy Stone]

16. That's the only way these MFers ever win.

:mad:

[GoesTo11]

17. Make sure not to count wrongfully rejected ballots too!

If Coleman wins by screwing with the recount, it will be completely illegitimate. He's learned the lessons of Florida - throw sand in the umpire's face - and is leveraging them.