Churches Struggle To Avoid Bankruptcy And Foreclosure

[babylonsister]

In Hard Times, Houses of God Turn to Chapter 11 in Book of Bankruptcy
Strapped Churches Can't Pay the Mortgage After Borrowing Binge; St. Andrew at Auction

By SUZANNE SATALINE


EASTON, Md. -- The auctioneer told the small crowd huddled outside the Talbot County Courthouse that the property would be sold "as is" -- rectory, bell tower, oak pews and rose-tinted stained glass windows included.

"Who gives $700,000, 700, 700?" he called out. One man, a representative for a local bank, raised his finger. The auctioneer tried in vain to nudge the price up. "Sold!" he cried. St. Andrew Anglican Church had just been bought by the bank that had started foreclosure proceedings against it.

"It's probably good for my soul to be taken down a notch," said the Right Rev. Joel Marcus Johnson, the rector of St. Andrew, after the auction.

During this holiday season of hard times, not even houses of God have been spared. Some lenders believe more churches than ever have fallen behind on loans or defaulted this year. Some churches, and at least one company that specialized in church lending, have filed for bankruptcy. Church giving is down as much as 15% in some places, pastors and lenders report.

more...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122999261138328613.html?mod=rss_Page_One

[Mari333]

1. everyone is getting hit

i am not surprised to see that the churches are, also. some of them do provide food and shelter to people, so thats sad. but when tithes go to swimming pools and basketball courts in churches, makes you wonder where their priorities were.
there are 85 churches in and around my town. only 2 provide meals for the poor. some of them are like vacation resorts.

[valerief]

2. It's even tougher for taxpayers. nt

[NV Whino]

3. What? God isn't issuing bailouts?

[Odin2005]

4. Where is your god, now? LOL!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

5. and what will happen to the poor fuckers

these churches feed, clothe and in some cases house??? LOL ... right...

sP

[NaturalHigh]

10. You're employing logic.

That's strictly forbidden by many where religion is concerned. I honestly believe there are a great many posters around here who would vote for religion to be banned and its practive punished if given the opportunity.

I wonder how many people these churches might feed or offer temporary shelter and what those people are going to do now.

[gratuitous]

14. Well, my church didn't go on an expansion frenzy

So we're still able to provide the day center for a family homeless transition program, hold weekly services, feed approximately 10,000 people a year, and next year we're providing space for a community garden that will help another 16 to 48 families feed themselves.

But then, we're not logical at all according to your lights. Very nice.

[NaturalHigh]

56. Neither did mine.

I'm not quite sure what I might have said that offended you, but I think the work your church is doing is great.

[Lance_Boyle]

15. You mean the grifters who pass around the plate?

Those are the only people enriched in any way by most churches. The rest pay their 15% to placate invisible superman and the freak in the robe rakes it in. Solid business model if you're slimy enough to abuse people's superstitions that way.

[Odin2005]

21. Doh, I didn't mean to dis charity stuff done by churches. On the other hand, in a just society...

...people shouldn't have to resort to charity in the first place. I was just being flippant and glib and I guess it came out wrong.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

26. i think people SHOULD have to resort to charity

for various reasons...but charity (local charity) really builds a sense of community when done properly...but in today's world it is almost impossible to find that...

sP

[louis c]

32. That's the government's responsibility

I'll take Socialism over Catholicism any-day.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

41. not really...people should take care of people

the gov't sucks at it...always has...always will...

sP

[louis c]

42. My 80 year old mom

has social security, a government pension, food stamps and fuel assistance. Our family also provides for her, but the government assistance is greatly appreciated. I don't think the government sucks at it at all. She does way better than having to beg from the church and their are no strings attached.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

44. well, she had to WORK for the gov't to get the pension

and Social Security is a huge Ponzi scheme that will fail in the future...unless something drastic is done. Food stamp program was very poorly managed for years and i am not sure how well it has improved...

You don't have to beg at our church at all...you need...it just sort of shows up...and no strings attached there either...

sP

[louis c]

45. Ya, I bet.

I'll do it my way.

The Repukes like that "religious initiative" stuff. The government handles things way better than the private sector (check out wall street) or religious organizations. Let's see the Catholic Church survive and pay taxes. I'm from Boston, so please don't get me started about the Catholic Church. I certainly think they suck at baby sitting.

And please don't compare the Republican run government to the Democrats, who really believe government can work.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

50. gov't CAN work, but it doesn't...at least not so well as you suggest

the problem is the people that get in there screw it up...and to be honest, that is the same with the private sector as well...and since the private sector sucks so much, why does the US, despite the problems, still have the largest economy in the world? did all this come from gov't?

there needs to be a melding of the two in a way that business supports gov't and the gov't oversees the businesses...not to the extent of running them, but at least oversight (which would have stopped all this mess that is going on right now).

and there are plenty of churches that do TONS of good (christian and otherwise though they aren't called churches, per se). and yes, there are those that ignore the admonition of christ to give all they have...

sP

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

49. the would you please tell the GAO how it is going to survive

without massive changes? it has been robbed of all the money it was holding...there is nothing there but the gov't promise to pay back money that was stolen from the social security 'fund' and used in the budget! there is no way it will stand...

mark this thread and come back to it in a few years...you can email your apologies for being wrong and for calling me a freeper...

sP

[Solon]

43. Yeah, and how well did that work out before the founding of public welfare?

:eyes:

[Odin2005]

46. Right wing BS.

Don't regurgitate right-wing anti-welfare lies.

[LeftyMom]

33. There will be more money to help them with fewer leaches sucking up resources

and offering nothing in return.

[TWiley]

39. Just how many actually do that? 300 churches here and two food pantrys

[ProdigalJunkMail]

40. don't know...but they don't all OPEN food pantries

but many of them have drives and collect for them...but hey, fuck 'em, right?

sP

[TWiley]

52. No, that is not what I am saying. Please answer this:

Jesus lived over 2000 years ago. What positive impact has his life and death had on civilization since then? I am not asking about unprovable beliefs like "blood dripping on sins during the full moon will attone transgressions"

I want something tangable ... something that can be touched, or some undeniably poitive impact his life has had. Surly you can produce some evidence.

[noel711]

57. I'm not a literalist....

Most fundamentalists are...

But you asked: what tangible impact the life of Jesus had on the world?

Many theologians say that the teachings of Jesus about the worth
of the individual, particularly the poor, the outcast, the forgotten,
especially women and children, brought about the focus on human rights and dignity.

Before his teaching, life was pretty much a system of the domination of the
wealthy and powerful over the poor. Agreed that oppression still exists today,
but the fact that there are voices that advocate for rights for the poor, the outcast,
the forgotten, women and children.

The words of Jesus inspired many who have changed the world:
Martin Luther King, Bishop Desmond Tutu, Nelson Mandala, MOther Theresa...
to name a few. Are they all crazy? I don't think so.

Sadly, too many progressives write Jesus off as a wack-job,
because they listen to closely to the rantings of bigoted fundamentalists.

Read beyond what the scriptures say... the Bible wasn't written by JEsus,
but by people with an agenda, yet there's a kernal of wisdom in Jesus' words.

[jonnyblitz]

8. Bwahahahahaha

I guess I am evil for thinking your post was funny! :rofl:

[Beausoleil]

6. Give up all your possessions

and follow him, the guy in the pinstriped suit and the $500 haircut.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

7. those churches don't file bankruptcy

they go under in a financial scandal IF they go under...and even then many of them survive. it is the little churches that actually do a lot of good int he world that are suffering. when you have 50 members and 10 of them are out of work and the others are struggling to make ends meet the church has little to no chance of survival...and thus take down everyone attached to it...

sP

[Beausoleil]

11. LOL! I meant the banker!

Televangelists don't run real churches, those are tax-exempt, for-profit businesses in my book.

My wife is the business manager of a small Catholic all-girl HS. She is very worried that they are not going to make it.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

13. i was sure you were talking about the slicked-back televangelist

but i guess they aren't really all that different than a banker! the money just goes into a different kind of 'account.'

:-)

sP

[Beausoleil]

18. And they both have the same "god"! n/t

[Raksha]

22. Yeah, they both have the same god...Mammon.

Like I really needed to say that!

[NaturalHigh]

9. I'm sure this will bring a round of cheers...

from the usual religion-bashers. That seems the most popular stance around here some days. Never mind all the good these churches might do.

[Deja Q]

24. Sad, isn't it?

[Maru Kitteh]

34. It's sad when anyone uses faith as a basis for hate - and sad that it is so readily accepted

by anyone who would call themselves a progressive.

Bigotry against faith is every bit as ignorant and repulsive as bigotry that seeks to legitimize itself through religion.

[TWiley]

38. I have an open mind .... please let me know the % that feeds the poor

Out of every dollar given to religion, how much actually provides a social service like feeding the poor? I would guess that if all American Christian Churches were lumped together, then less than 1% would actually benifit society.

Most of their money is spent on marketing, multimedia presentations, overhead, and political efforts.

[NaturalHigh]

54. I honestly have no idea...

and I'm frankly to lazy to try to look it up this morning. I could only speak for the church in which I'm a member and tell you that your stereotype is totally off. NONE of our money is spent on marketing, multimedia presentations, or political efforts, and our overhead consists of utility bills and two salaried church employees.

[TlalocW]

12. I wouldn't mind having that happen a bit here in Tulsa

We're "doubly blessed" to have Oral Roberts University and Rhema Bible College in nearby suburb Broken Arrow. Especially with Rhema, I think their goal is to keep as many of their graduates in the area so as to always be a steady stream of revenue through donations and offspring of their graduates going to Rhema themselves. They do this by first bankrupting them with fees and outrageous (even by regular university standards) prices on books (many of them $65.00 100-page soft covers written by the now deceased founder) so they can't afford to move elsewhere upon graduation. Then they also encourage them to start building their flocks while still in college. So Bible studies held in a person's basement grow too large so they rent a space in an old strip mall (to show you how desperate they are for space, a Baptist church rented a space in a strip mall that was in between a gay bar and a new age church), and then they outgrow that and have a crappy sheet metal church built until they can afford to put up rock facades on it and voila, another church just a few lots over from another church which is just a few lots over from another church, etc.

TlalocW

[Manifestor_of_Light]

17. Ah, yes.

Oral Roberts U. is Six Flags Over Jeebus.

:rofl:

[kwassa]

16. The featured church, St. Andrews, is a conservative split-off from the Episcopal Church

so I am not crying too many tears over this.

They are against ordaining women and gays.

[Gormy Cuss]

25. I noticed that it was an "Anglican" church

and wondered whether the financial straits were caused by the outflow of the Episcopalians who didn't like that new brand of Anglicanism after all.

[Critters2]

29. Why did they have a mortgage? New building, expansion, what?

In 22 years, none of the churches I've served has ever had a mortgage. So, no risk of foreclosure. My current congregation's building was completed in 1870. Don't know when it was paid off, but we certainly aren't worried about foreclosure.

[kwassa]

31. They had a mortgage

The church is 17 years old, and bought an old Roman Catholic church within the past few years. Guess what? They only had a congregation of about 50 people.

[KamaAina]

19. Maybe they shouldn't have spent so much pushing Prop H8

:nopity:

[Liberal_in_LA]

20. I'd love to own a little church building.

[anigbrowl]

23. Oh well, every cloud has a silver lining.

[Initech]

27. Wow, when even God is going bankrupt, you know things are bad.

[lib2DaBone]

28. Churches should not be tax free. They have becom Political Entities...

.. and must assume the related responsibilites.

[Maru Kitteh]

35. not all of them, by far - but those who do, absolutely should be taxed

[RetroLounge]

30. Poor babies...

Maybe their business plan sucks and their workers are overpaid compared to foreign church workers...

:eyes:

RL

[TWiley]

37. now THAT is funny. Could Jesus save on my wage?

[TWiley]

36. Tax them hard and put em under ..... most are Republican PAC's anyway

[NaturalHigh]

55. That just might be the most ignorant reply I've ever read.

If you really think that all churches campaign for republicans, even churches of certain denominations or in certain areas, then you should get out more and realize that the religious community is as diverse as this country in general. Of course, if you just hate churches or religion, that's your right, but your stereotyping is way off the mark.

[flvegan]

48. This just fucks the banks further.

Yeah, rah rah another church bites it. Whatever. Posters shouldn't let emotion trump economics. The bank did what it had to do by bidding the Judgment amount. An amount nobody wants to bid for a church they'd have to start up AGAIN even though it failed. So now the bank has a $700k piece of property...that they, as owners of a now non-charity have to pay the taxes on.

Enjoy losing a quarter million dollars on the deal, douchebags. Should've tried to make the loan perform.

Fucking lenders are too stupid to be in the business. Morons. And yet we bail them out because they fail consistently in Finance 101.

[blogslut]

51. Well, that's what they get for trying to run churches like they were businesses

If churches want to play with the profit-margin big dogs then they should expect to suffer the consequences.

[TexasObserver]

53. Proving that every dark cloud really does have a silver lining.

"And be sure to build multi million dollar buildings, to use as your religious country clubs, and say you're doing it for me."
--- something that Jesus didn't say