Abortion, ultrasound, South Carolina...

[hiaasenrocks]

I live on the coast of South Carolina (10 minutes from Charleston, for those of you familiar with the area) and I love this place. I love the history of the city, the architecture of the old parts of town, the great restaurants and local seafood, and most of all the beautiful beaches and wildlife that bring me so much pleasure.

But sometimes I am embarrassed to be from South Carolina. It's embarrassing being from one of the reddest of the red states. It's embarrassing listening to some of our politicians -- local, state and federal. I wonder sometimes if these people are even from the same planet on which I currently reside.

They're embarrassing. They ruin this state, a state filled with many decent people and wonderful attributes that I believe give us great potential. Some of our license plates bear the slogan "Smiling Places, Beautiful Places," and for the most part we live up to that.

So...it's not the state. It's the people. Some of the people.

Like the people in our state legislature who want women to view an ultrasound of their fetus before undergoing an abortion. There's no medical reason for this. It is purely a bullying tactic by which some people want to impose their alleged morality upon others.

If it becomes law, we will be the only state in the country with such a law.

We the people have some power. Not much, but some. More in numbers, but part of the problem is that being a progressive in South Carolina is akin to being a fly in a frog pond.

I wish there was something we could do. I wish there was some way we could take this state back from those whose thoughts are guided by fanatic, puritanical religious extremism.

If you're from South Carolina, please, please don't let these people continue to take us down the road. They may outnumber us, but that can change. They may hold the power at the moment, but that can change. We have the same rights they do to own this state. With rights come responsibility, but they choose to recognize only the former. Let's use both and bring this state in line with progressive values that improve the lives of everyone, and discard the extremist values that serve only to keep some people down.

I feel bad for my state tonight. Tomorrow, the fight goes on.

[951-Riverside]

1. Great now SC is going to become another battleground for hippies and fundies

:eyes:

[hiaasenrocks]

3. Whatever that means.

[Lex]

2. Who TF is going to pay for a medically unnecessary ultrasound

is one question that springs to mind.


There are so many questions, but this one jumps to mind.

[hiaasenrocks]

4. I wondered that as well.

Here's a link to one story:

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/politics/16926639.htm

[azurnoir]

5. That will become futher " persuasion"

If the woman decides to go through with the abortion the price of ultrasound is tacked on to the cost of the abortion payable upfront of course, if she decides against abortion it becomes the one that is usually done on the first OB appointment, payable by insurance or Medicaid. If she is undecided then thy the bill until.

[caligirl]

6. keep trying to emember the good things, the bad will get to you if you don't.

Lived in Beaufort a couple of years and I so understand what your saying. People do realize the state has many fine people living there. But we were happy to leave. (military orders took us there)

[Erika]

7. They might use this tact for obtaining birth control also

They will show a woman of child rearing age a video on a life that could have possibly been but she denied a chance. Theocracy pure and simple. Control women, keep them barefoot and pregnant.

Deny them an education, that will keep them more beholden to men.

[southerncrone]

8. Straight from the Dark Ages, but I fear other Southern states may try to emulate SC

if they pass this insane bill.

What about the fathers of the babies, should they be forced to watch a castration film?
I don't know if that really equates, but this is sexist at best.

:wtf:

[Erika]

11. Fathers? Well, the South isn't concerned with their morality

or education. We got to control those loose women!

[RB TexLa]

17. Fathers have no say in it, at least they realize that

I say that as I'm sure there are some of the neanderthals that would say they should have some input.

[Selatius]

18. I live here in Mississippi. I believe that's a very valid fear.

If anything, Mississippi and South Carolina seem to be in a competition to be the reddest of the red.

[Maddy McCall]

37. I think that Mississippi has already passed the bill for sonograms this year.

Also requires the mother hearing the heartbeat.

[Craftergrl]

9. I don't see a problem..

It was all over the local radio this evening and a lot of libs were calling in to support this. As a matter of fact no one said anything negative about it that I heard. Well, if you don't count the guy that said that the father had to come to and he should be forced to sign an agreement to take care of the child for the next 18 years...I thought that was an interesting point.

There's nothing wrong with showing a woman the ultrasound and letting her make a choice. All the cards on the table.

I think it's extremist to fight against letting a woman be fully informed before making her choice.

There really is a difference with being pro choice and arguing to abort every child that's conceived which is where you seem to be.

The party platform is Pro Choice. Again there's nothing wrong with a woman choosing NOT to abort. It's having the choice that's the concern.

You seem like a used car sales man that's upset that a customer walked off the car lot. You had an abortion in the can, then someone showed the mother something that changed her mind, now you don't get to score one.

Ok after thinking it through, you're just plain morbid.

[Erika]

10. You don't think a woman knows about a fetus?

How dumb do you assume women are that they need these pics shoved in their face? How insensitive do you think they are?

I won't be spending my money in South Carolina.

[WernhamHogg]

15. Oh, you know how most of us are...

We don't wanna look fat come swimsuit time, we have an abortion quota to meet and we have all that extra time to waste between our hair and our nail appointments!

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[xxqqqzme]

16. Agree wholeheartedly

Crafter seems to think termination is a form of birth control. The ONLY person I have ever known that treated termination that way was my sister & she's a chucklenuts loving, death penalty cheering, drudge reading, wilfully ignorant RW freak. Every other woman I have ever known who exercised her choice & choose termination came to that decision w/ sleepless nights, weighing options, taking a long hard look @ that significant other, figuring what having a child would cost them in time off, who would care for the child while at work and on and on.....Then on top of all that to get an ultrasound shoved in your face. No thank you.

[hiaasenrocks]

21. What the hell is this?

There's nothing in my post that would lead a rational person to conclude anything you concluded. I'm not even going to respond to this. Being called a "freeper" by someone else for posting what I posted is beyond reason, but your post is just not even worthy of analysis.

[Bridget Burke]

27. Your profile says you're female.

But your message indicates you know nothing about women.

[wuushew]

30. Lets break it down shall we

Advertising like propaganda is a means to influence human behavior. Abortion is a medical procedure, so to prevent hypocrisy why don't we MANDATE video of colon, heart or stomach surgery?

Why would any medical professional want to remove him or herself from the platform of impartiality? An ultrasound is not going to give the women any relevant medical information that she can digest, it is designed to stimulate a maternal emotional response. This is not to be unexpected all mammals are hardwired to to develop imprinting responses as a device to perpetuate the species.

The foes of abortion are using all means available to them to seek THEIR goal of reaching zero legal abortions as soon as possible. In doing so they are being the consummate antithesis of libertarian thought by both having opinions of others actions and seeking to influence that same group.

Even Hillary is being a bitch by publicly saying abortions inherently negative. Ideas and morality cannot and should not be projected on to other groups, we can only judge ourselves. If more information is necessary a women seeking an abortion could always ask a physician what her choices were. The state need not interfere.

Morality and freedom are individual concepts, we can only have shared ideas not coerced ones in an open and healthy society.

[cali]

33. If you agree with this disgusting and infantalizing proposed law

you're the extremist. Of course there's nothing wrong with a woman choosing not to abort, but by the time she's made an appointment to have an abortion, she's already decided. There are enough legal hoops to jump through already, including the one that the woman must be informed about fetal development and must wait after that information is imparted, to have an abortion. And what if the woman is the victim of rape or incest? It's particularly cruel in that instance.

[gollygee]

34. My biggest concern is that it would make abortions unaffordable

as ultrasounds are very expensive.

But it's also entirely unnecessary. No pregnant woman doesn't know that there's a fetus. It isn't informing her of the presence of a fetus. What information is she getting?

[MountainLaurel]

41. I believe that is one of the goals

To put abortion out of the reach of all but the wealthiest women, who would be get one in any case.

[Rosemary2205]

40. self delete -- unintentional troll feeding.

[wicket]

42. Oh give me a freakin' break!!!!

Do you really think women are that stupid??

:eyes: :nopity:

[Lars39]

12. This ties in with the program the Southern Baptists have to buy ultrasound

machines. Buncha crotch-sniffing anal-retentive Barney Fifes.

[southerncrone]

13. Me thinks I smell a freeper.

[Lars39]

14. Hey southerncrone!

11:00pm or so seems to be their swarming time. :hi:

[southerncrone]

19. Apparently....

Now we're on Daylight Savings Time, they have to wait later for it to get GOOD & DARK! :P

[hiaasenrocks]

20. Pathetic response.

I've been posting here for several years and have been a donor for one of those, which just ended about a month ago. When I'm able to come up with some extra cash, I will be again.

You have no reason to attack me on this issue. I find it abhorrent that women in my state may be subjected to this. And your baseless attack won't stop me from speaking out against the legislature's effort to make psychological war on my sisters and other women in my state.

[femmedem]

22. I don't think that was directed at you.

I think this was a shared joke about someone else's response.

[hiaasenrocks]

23. If so, please accept my apology.

The placement of that response was directly under my post. Maybe I just need another cup of coffee...

[wicket]

43. It wasn't directed at you

At least I don't think so any way. There is a freeperish post upthread that a lot of people have responded to. :hi:

[Corgigal]

24. You're a better person then me

I live in Summerville, you know where that is and I hate this place. If it wasn't so cheap to live here I would be gone. I'm waiting for the kids to get out of school (4 Years) and then Hubby and I are moving out of this place. I'm taking my kids with me, especially my two daughters.

[hiaasenrocks]

25. I'm not big on Summerville, either. :)

j/k

Living about 2 miles from the beach is great. Being so close to downtown Charleston is great. I love this area. I think many people in the state, however, are the problem, not the state itself. And I guess some of the more "upstate" folks are what I have in mind.

Good luck to you. I wish you'd stay and join the fight.

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

26. How effective would this be?

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that most abortions are performed at a stage when the fetus is barely big enough to even see on a sonogram, much less look anything like a fully developed baby.

[Breeze54]

31. The law is designed to bankrupt abortion providers.

Bill after bill is being introduced.

Check the link.

South Carolina - Anti-Choice Legislation

http://www.naral.org/choice-action-center/in_your_state/bill-tracker/state.html?state=SC

Bill Number: SC S 84
Summary: Requires abortion providers obtain costly ultrasound equipment, even if not medically necessary for patient care.
Sponsor: Bryant (R)
Introduced: 01/09/2007
Last Action: Introduced
Biased Counseling and Mandatory Delay


Bill Number: SC H 3697
Summary: Is intended to impose near-total ban on abortion. Defines personhood as beginning at fertilization, which could lead to prohibitions on most contraceptives and fertility treatments.
Sponsor: Davenport (R)
Introduced: 03/13/2007
Last Action: Introduced

Bill Number: SC H 3355
Summary: Requires abortion providers obtain costly ultrasound equipment, even if not medically necessary for patient care.
Sponsor: Delleney (R)
Introduced: 01/25/2007
Last Action: Introduced

Bill Number: SC S 84
Summary: Requires abortion providers obtain costly ultrasound equipment, even if not medically necessary for patient care.
Sponsor: Bryant (R)
Introduced: 01/09/2007
Last Action: Introduced

http://www.scstatehouse.net/sess117_2007-2008/bills/84.htm

[drmom]

36. Does anyone know a way to contribute directly to the pro-choice groups in SC?

Or some way to get their legal team some monetary support?

[Breeze54]

38. Click here--->

Make a gift today to protect a woman’s right to choose

https://secure.ga3.org/02/naral8

With more than a million supporters and 26 state affiliates across the country,
NARAL Pro-Choice America is the political arm of the pro-choice movement.
We help elect pro-choice candidates, educate Congress on key issues relating
to reproductive health and privacy and promote awareness in the public about
the threat to Roe v. Wade. Political observers agree: we can turn the tide in
Washington, D.C and in the states, but your financial support is critical to our success.

Please help us hold the line for women's rights by making a gift today.

http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/about-us/learn-about-us/

[lectrobyte]

28. I'm in NC, but I love that Charleston area, too, Fight the good fight!

If we wanted a theocracy, we'd have moved to Iran or Saudi Arabia already.

[Breeze54]

32. NC gets a D grade

North Carolina -ANTI-CHOICE LAWS

http://www.naral.org/choice-action-center/in_your_state/who-decides/state-profiles/north-carolina.html

Physician-Only Restriction

North Carolina prohibits certain qualified health care professionals from performing abortions.
Details »
Refusal to Provide Medical Services

North Carolina allows certain individuals or entities to refuse to provide women
specific reproductive health services, information, or referrals.
Details »
Restrictions on Low-Income Women's Access to Abortion

North Carolina restricts low-income women's access to abortion.
Details »
Restrictions on Young Women's Access to Abortion

North Carolina law restricts young women's access to abortion services
by mandating parental consent.
Details »
Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers (TRAP)

North Carolina subjects abortion providers to burdensome restrictions
not applied to other medical professionals.
Details »


My state isn't much better though.

[raccoon]

29. I live in SC too. Upstate SC. I feel as disgusted about this as you do. nt

[SaveAmerica]

35. How far down on the list is SC in the area of education? 48, 49, 50?

Don't forget to take care of the babies after they're born. Dingbats.


You might not be the only progressive in your area. Look in your phone book and see if there is a local Dem headquarters or office in your area. If there are any democratic office-holders on a local level, call them and see what can be done to get a group started and grow with it. Go straight to the top of where the action is and e-mail Howard Dean's office and ask what resources they have to help you get started (you *are* part of the 50 state strategy). Go to the SC forum and ask who is in your area, more people to help get it started. I live in a very red area and thought I had to be the only Democrat until I started getting together with others. It's such a relief to be with like-minded people and my frustration at not being able to do anything against Bush and his warmongers has turned into energy to get things done on a local level. They're out there, you just have to find each other!

[SaveAmerica]

39. What? I asked a question that was rhetorical and more a statement

about the lack of attention many fundamentalist Christian right types give to children and their welfare after they're born.

When looking at a chart of states and their educational ranking southern school systems are among the worst in America, North Carolina included. I believe it serves everyone to withhold any back patting until the 'No Child Left Behind' scam is dropped and we see how many of the numbers recorded are a true representative of all the children in our school systems. Many numbers don't reflect the children who are really left behind because their grades bring down scores. Here's an article you might be interested in:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1599099,00.html