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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:08 PM
Original message
Doing the Hokey Pokey 'could be a religious hate crime
By Auslan Cramb, Scottish Correspondent
Last Updated: 3:58PM GMT 21 Dec 2008

The Hokey Cokey ( Pokey is the American word but same song) is an old novelty song that has been sung in music halls, at children's parties and at sherry-fuelled family gatherings for many years.


But according to the Catholic Church and some Scottish politicians, singing the popular tune that begins with the words "You put your right hand in, your right hand out," may constitute an act of religious hatred.
A spokesman for the leader of the church in Scotland said the song had disturbing origins.

Critics claim that Puritans composed the song in the 18th century in an attempt to mock the actions and language of priests leading the Latin mass.

Now politicians have urged police to arrest anyone using the song to "taunt" Catholics under legislation designed to prevent incitement to religious hatred.

Supporters of Rangers FC have been banned from singing anti-Catholic songs at Ibrox stadium to taunt their rivals Celtic, a club with Catholic roots.

But fans of the club are said to be discussing on internet forums the possibility of getting round the ban by singing the Hokey Cokey at next week's Old Firm derby between the clubs.
Peter Kearney, a spokesman for Cardinal Keith O'Brien, said:

"This song does have quite disturbing origins. Although apparently innocuous, it was devised as an attack on and a parody of the Catholic mass.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3883838/Doing-the-Hokey-Cokey-could-be-hate-crime.html





Written By: Roland Lawrence LaPrise, concocted the song along with two fellow musicians in the late 1940s for the ski crowd in Sun Valley, Idaho. The group, the Ram Trio (with Charles Macak and Tafit Baker), recorded the song in 1949, and they were awarded U.S. copyright in 1950, Acuff-Rose Music Inc.

http://kids.niehs.nih.gov/lyrics/hokey.htm


The Oxford English Dictionary suggests that the phrase "hokey cokey" comes from "hocus pocus", the traditional magician's incantation which in its turn derives from a distortion of hoc est enim corpus meum - "this is my body" - the Latin words of consecration accompanying the elevation of the host at Eucharist, the point, at which according to traditional Catholic practice, transubstantiation takes place - mocked by Puritans and others as a form of "magic words".

The Anglican Canon Matthew Damon, Provost of Wakefield Cathedral, West Yorkshire, says that the dance as well comes from the Catholic Latin mass.<2> The priest would perform his movements with his back to the congregation, who could not hear well the words, nor understand the Latin, nor clearly see his movements.

This theory led Scottish politician Michael Matheson in 2008 to urge police action "against individuals who use it to taunt Catholics.” This claim by Matheson was deemed ridiculous by fans from both sides of the Old Firm (the Glasgow football teams Celtic and Rangers) and calls have been put out on fans' forums for both sides to join together to sing the song on 27th Dec 2008 at Ibrox.<3>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokey_Cokey


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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, it should be illegal, alright.
But not for hatred. :rofl:
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. What exactly is being shaken all about?
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I think the "Shakers' have the monopoly on that dance
They were obviously mocking something back then and
at the same time making great furniture.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. !
:rofl:
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. And here I thought it was just an amazing stupid annoying song
Who knew?
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Callalily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well, when you think about it
the terminology "doing the Hokey Pokey" seems a far too suggestive.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. LOL my mother will faint if I tell her this
all those hokey pokey years in the 50s and I was already mocking the Mass? say it aint so! my mom will say 1000 rosaries now to save my soul.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. My third grade teacher taught us this song and dance
Little did I know then how subversive she was
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. ?? That's just plain damn weird. And I guess I should go back and give
my grade school gym teachers an ass whuppin' for all the times we had to do that shit.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. Wow. Now I better understand how to do the hokey pokey. I also know what it's all about!
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Even Elmo does the hokey pokey..
.
.




~~~~~~~
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Elmo hates Papists! nt
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. Well, I sure hope ignorance of the origins is a good defense
against prosecution or persecution for doing the hokey pokey. That's just too odd.
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. The Hokey Pokey was a part of every birthday party I attended
as a child. And almost all of us were Catholic.

Who knew? Certainly not our mothers. :rofl:
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. If you think that's bad, try reading up on the origins of many children's rhymes. - n/t
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
15. I am against magic & superstition, but I'm not against people sharing their lives & work
Edited on Tue Dec-23-08 08:30 PM by patrice
for a life that they have in common. Afterall, what IF that IS what IT is ALL about?
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. You put your left leg in
'You put your left leg in
You put your left leg out
You put your left leg in
And you shake it all about.
You do the Hokey Pokey and you turn yourself around
That's what it's all about...'


THIS SONG AND DANCE HAS DEEP MEANING, politically, socially and philosophical.







I think it has to do with Paul is Dead.


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smokey nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's all about?
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. That'll leave us only "The Chicken Dance" and "The Macarena" for wedding receptions!
:cry:
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. How about "Ballin' the Jack?"
First you put your two knees close up tight,
You swing 'em to the left, and you sway 'em to the right...


--IMM
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. That was a song by the Lutherans mocking the Southern Baptist

I thought you knew that?





LOL!!!!
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smokey nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Did the "Electric Slide" die? Why didn't anybody tell me?
:cry:
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TripleKatPad Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. I have fond memories of doing the hokey-pokey at the roller rink
We lived on the edge of a small town, but there was, miraculously, a roller rink at the end of my dirt road. When I was 10 or so, I walked there every Saturday and paid my 50 cents to spend the afternoon in bliss. And every week we did the hokey pokey on roller skates.

That must explain the pentagram burned into my living room carpet.
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. I just did the hokey pokey Saturday at the roller rink.
It was fun, but making fun of a hierarchical religion is icing on the cake!
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
25. "Eeny, meeny, miney, moe..."
hint: the word "tiger" in the next line is of relatively recent origin.
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