NO ONE has the right to tell me who to love.

[Shardik]

No government should endorse planned marriages.

No government should pick the gender of who I love.

No government should decide what and who I am.

I have been silent on the topic of the month since the raging began. I wanted to figure out in my own head how I would feel if I were in the shoes of the people here who were affected by Prop 8 and the slap in the face that Warren presents.

Before, I was just happy to say "I'm a supporter of Gay Rights." now, after reading so many threads and contemplation, I understand the anger so much more. There's validity to being a supporter of sexual freedom and anti bias, but there's more to understanding it. There's more to believing it.

So, to my GLBT friends, I'm with you in your outrage and I'm with you in my heart.

Carry on and stay strong. I love you all.

[liberalmuse]

1. Absolutely.

No one has the right to dictate who we love. Love is not about 'pro-creation'. Love is about LOVE.

[Shardik]

4. And in essence, the laws now tell us wo we can and cannot love.

Which is a tragedy and the laws need to be changed.

[54anickel]

2. It has been an enlightening time here. I am also thankful for the educational

experience here at DU on the subject. I now have a much deeper understanding of how equal but separate isn't equal at all. It's a shallow attempt that actually will perpetuate the inequality.

[Shardik]

6. I feel that many of us have readjusted previous feelings on this.

there's talking the talk and walking the walk.

[54anickel]

16. Absolutely. I've struggled with our congregation on the GLBT equality issues as a

lay minister for at least 5 years. A lot of discernment went into the decision to take the leadership position after discovering they wanted to amend the church constitution (yes, some churches have one) to block the possibility of the pastor performing gay couple blessings. That was about 7 years ago. Luckily the amendment never happened, though, sadly, the vote did pass.

At first I was going to just leave that congregation. I was fairly new there, had no ties and didn't want to sit with a bunch of mean-spirited hypocrites and bigots each Sunday. They recently ran off the Pastor that befriended my immediate family thru his ministry to the elderly and (I learned while caring for my dad) my extended family through his ministry in the AIDS community. He was the main reason I started attending that church. Something he said during a sermon after 9-11 was the final straw for them. I just came in at a very bad time and learned the hard was that a Pastor is rarely a reflection of his flock.

Anyway, after long talks with him and the interim I decided to stay, attend seminary classes to become a lay-leader and try to help the congregation work through their feelings on the issue. Most are to the point where they see and understand the civil rights issues, but then they latch onto "separation of church and state" when the discussion turns to gay marriage ceremonies or accepting a gay pastor. They want that left up to individual congregations, not mandated by the state or the ELCA (parent church organization). They want something that is "equal but separate". I had trouble articulating why that was wrong until the Warren flack brought this front and center on DU.

As hurtful as some of the discussion here have become, I am extremely thankful for each and every one of them.

[leftstreet]

3. Fuck Rick Warren

K&R

[tnlefty]

5. I agree 100%..

and no one should make decisions about what I can and can't do with my body, and the Warren pick has pissed me off with his nasty views about both.

[Shardik]

8. It's not just Warren.

It's the pols that are too afraid to piss off the religious right that are the biggest part of the problem.

[Toasterlad]

7. Thank You.

[ThomCat]

9. That is an awesome post! Thank you!

This is a wonderful demonstration of empathy. You support us not because you've magnanimously decided to support us, but because you've stepped out of your own perspective enough to envision things from our perspective, and you understand what we experience. You clearly understand why we object, and you object for the same reasons.
:hug:

There are a lot of people here who have shown the ability to do this recently, and I'm very greatful for this.

It hasn't reached the majority yet though. Not even the majority of DUers. Hopefully it will with time.

[Shardik]

12. I feel that it (empathy) will happen with time.

I just hope it happens sooner than later.

[ThomCat]

10. Duplicate. Delete.

:)

[foxfeet]

11. Thank you!

And I'm making more of an effort to make sure people know their support is welcome and very much appreciated.

[yardwork]

13. Thank you from a fellow southeasterner!

[Shardik]

15. You are welcome, Sir.

:toast:

[yardwork]

23. I'm a woman, but that's ok, I'll join you in the root beer toast!

[Shardik]

24. Oops! Sorry.

:)

[Swamp Rat]

14. k&r

[Deja Q]

17. Same here.

I'm tired of bisexuals being told they are merely closeted gays, incapable of choosing who they want to love, are promiscuous, and all the other stereotypes accorded them as well.

And if I choose a woman, that's nobody else's business either.

[Creideiki]

19. Oh, puddin'

Please identify as bisexual instead of gay. It makes me feel better knowing that in addition to the ability to exercise logic, empathy and kindness, there's yet another thing that separates us.

[Mari333]

18. and the self righteous smirking behaviour of warren

that hatred cloaked behind his version of what love is. I have seen that so many times when I meet people who say 'oh but i love gay people love the sinner not the sin'. i think thats even worse. its so arrogant and self righteous.
but really..imagine it..you love someone with all your heart, you share your lives together, you are best friends..and some person comes along and according to their own personal biblical interpretation and belief, they stand in front of you and your loved one and family member and point their finger at you both and call it a sin.
the bastards! then, to add icing to the insult, they tell you they love you anyway ...please! just come out and say it. they hate who you are, they hate who you love, they hate your family. at least fred phelps is an honest hater.
warren is even worse then phelps. he cloaks his hatred to make it more palatable.

[donco6]

20. Thanks! n/t

[tavalon]

21. As a longtime polyamorist, I know the government thinks it has the right to tell me

who and how many and in what way I can love. The government also thinks I have to listen to them. They are wrong.

[dysfunctional press]

22. who's telling you who to love?

:shrug: