Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Last time Rove had to testify under oath was 1991 - and it was ugly

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 08:28 AM
Original message
Last time Rove had to testify under oath was 1991 - and it was ugly

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/washington/stories/032207dntexrove.389a57f.html

Wayne Slater: One grilling probably still bugging Rove

<snip>

He emerged with a splash of publicity during Mr. Clements' race against Democratic Gov. Mark White in 1986 when Mr. Rove announced he had discovered an electronic eavesdropping device in his office – an allegation that immediately cast a cloud over Mr. White, who ultimately lost.

In 1990, Mr. Rove steered the political fortunes of a West Texas legislator named Rick Perry, who was running for agriculture commissioner. In the middle of the campaign, an FBI agent opened an investigation into the Democratic opponent. Mr. Perry won the election.

...

Mr. Rove fired back: He denied blaming Mr. White and, despite suspicions by Democrats that he had staged the bugging for political gain, said he had no idea who had done it.

The senator asked if he knew the FBI agent who had investigated Democrat Jim Hightower in the 1990 agriculture commission race, along with Democrats in earlier campaigns. Mr. Rove's answer sounded like something Bill Clinton would famously say under oath years later.

"Ah, Senator, it depends," he said. "Would you define 'know' for me?"

...

Years later, Mr. Rove recalled the episode as a political witch hunt.

"They wanted a pound of flesh," he said. "But I didn't want to give up and step aside. Let them do it for their reasons and put it out on the record."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. great reading material
K&R

He was slime then and he sure hell is slime now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. have you noticed that he is constantly denying involvement in shady things
just last week a student asked him about the McCain attacks in 2000
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. and remember he was fired by Poppy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. Have you notices those shady things keep getting repeated?
It's like a serial killer perfecting his crime.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I have often wondered if he resides
in a septic tank.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. It'll take billions of years of evolution to get him up from slime.
No offense to slime.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. well bubba its gonna be a whole different ball game this time
Leahy wants about 230 pounds now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kmla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. I think that would leave about 70 lbs...
Carl's kinda big these days.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. Guess what turdblossom, you're not in Texas anymore...
Senators Leahy and Conyers will get their pound of flesh this time...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. can we get some more Rs? We all need to understand just what Rove is
and that he knows no limits.

Promote & share the info. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Here's one. You know, he is limited. He's a one trick pony.
He's a table turner. A really good one but that's all he does. He's a manipulative sociopath.

"Rove isn't a genius, he's a criminal."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. Yep. He accomplishes much due to lack of ethical & moral restraints, inhibitions, not genius. eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Done. And I'm going to try and find a link to an article that
I had nightmares over (on KKKRove) and was written just prior to the 2004 election...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
11. If Rove testifies under oath in public, he is gonna need his asbestos undies ....
The problem the Committee will have is what to question him about first, the file is overflowing with evidence of Rove manipulation of government power to effect political gain.

Here is one good question to ask:

"Mr. Rove have you entered into any kind of agreement with the US Government and/or United States Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald which requires you to cooperate in exchange for receiving a benefit in return.? And does that agreement require you to testify truthfully under oath in order to receive the benefits of that agreement?"

It is a relevant and germane question to ask at the outset of any testimony under oath. It goes to the issues of bias and prejudice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
12. More evidence of Rove's sleaze...for those of you who haven't
yet read it, it is bone-chilling in its evil, IMO

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200411/green
Karl Rove in a Corner Joshua Green

**********
It will come as no surprise to anyone who has paid attention to the current campaign that Rove's most notable tendency in close races has been to go negative against his opponent, early and often. One of the first highlights of his career was the famously tight 1986 Texas governor's race, in which his candidate and mentor, the Republican oilman Bill Clements, sought to oust the Democratic incumbent Mark White. The race is legendary in Texas political lore for Rove's discovery that his office was bugged—news of which, coincidentally or not, distracted attention from an evening debate in which his candidate was expected to fare poorly. More pertinent to the current campaign is a strategy memo Rove wrote for his client prior to the race, which is now filed among Clements's papers in the Texas A&M University library. Quoting Napoleon, the memo says, "The whole art of war consists in a well-reasoned and extremely circumspect defensive, followed by rapid and audacious attack."
Though it is forever fashionable to denounce negative campaigning, every political expert understands that it can be extremely effective. Rove's career has borne this out perhaps better than any other modern political consultant's. But his very success leaves him precariously positioned if Bush stalls or founders. Once a negative course is set, it is nearly impossible to change; the perpetrator is usually stained for good. Furthermore, Rove's method is to plot out elaborate strategies well in advance of the campaign, and stick to them vigilantly. John Deardourff, Rove's media consultant for races in Texas and Alabama, says, "This rap Bush has of never changing his mind and never admitting a mistake—that's Karl! That's where it comes from." It is a tribute to Rove's strategic skill that he is so often right.
Throughout his career Rove has been able to stage-manage races to an extraordinary degree. This is possibly his least appreciated skill. The most revealing time in his career was 1994, when Rove fought more close races than in any other year, and managed to dictate the dynamic in every one of them. He pulled off highly unlikely upsets for Perry Hooper in Alabama (a race overwhelmingly about trial lawyer excesses) and George W. Bush in Texas (a race dominated by Bush's platform of welfare, juvenile-justice, tort, and public-school reform). However impressive, all but one of his races have been conducted at the state level, and thus have been comparatively insular affairs, unimpeded by the glare of the national media or a troublesome global issue like violence in Iraq—both of which could threaten Rove's ability to control this race.
In the rare instances when he has failed to set the terms of debate, Rove hasn't fared nearly so well. Four years ago, in a race to succeed Hooper, who was retiring as Alabama's chief justice, Rove lined up support from a majority of the state's important Republicans behind his candidate, an associate justice named Harold See. Like most of Rove's clients, See had an enormous financial advantage and ran a brutally negative campaign—but he was nonetheless trounced by Roy Moore, the "Ten Commandments" judge, who succeeded in making the race about religion. This loss may have helped Rove to recognize the power of religion as a political motivator: from the question of gay marriage to organizing churches for Bush, it features prominently in his playbook for the current election.
**********
How Rove has conducted himself while winning campaigns is a subject of no small controversy in political circles. It is frequently said of him, in hushed tones when political folks are doing the talking, that he leaves a trail of damage in his wake—a reference to the substantial number of people who have been hurt, politically and personally, through their encounters with him. Rove's reputation for winning is eclipsed only by his reputation for ruthlessness, and examples abound of his apparent willingness to cross moral and ethical lines.
In the opening pages of Bush's Brain, Wayne Slater describes an encounter with Rove while covering the 2000 campaign for the Dallas Morning News. Slater had written an article for that day's paper detailing Rove's history of dirty tricks, including a 1973 conference he had organized for young Republicans on how to orchestrate them. Rove was furious. "You're trying to ruin me!" Slater recalls him shouting. The anecdote points up one of the paradoxes of Rove's career. Articles like Slater's are surprisingly few, yet as I interviewed people who knew Rove, they brought up examples of unscrupulous tactics—some of them breathtaking—as a matter of course.A typical instance occurred in the hard-fought 1996 race for a seat on the Alabama Supreme Court between Rove's client, Harold See, then a University of Alabama law professor, and the Democratic incumbent, Kenneth Ingram. According to someone who worked for him, Rove, dissatisfied with the campaign's progress, had flyers printed up—absent any trace of who was behind them—viciously attacking See and his family. "We were trying to craft a message to reach some of the blue-collar, lower-middle-class people," the staffer says. "You'd roll it up, put a rubber band around it, and paperboy it at houses late at night. I was told, 'Do not hand it to anybody, do not tell anybody who you're with, and if you can, borrow a car that doesn't have your tags.' So I borrowed a buddy's car down the middle of the street … I had Hefty bags stuffed full of these rolled-up pamphlets, and I'd cruise the designated neighborhoods, throwing these things out with both hands and literally driving with my knees." The ploy left Rove's opponent at a loss. Ingram's staff realized that it would be fruitless to try to persuade the public that the See campaign was attacking its own candidate in order "to create a backlash against the Democrat," as Joe Perkins, who worked for Ingram, put it to me. Presumably the public would believe that Democrats were spreading terrible rumors about See and his family. "They just beat you down to your knees," Ingram said of being on the receiving end of Rove's attacks. See won the race.
Some of Rove's darker tactics cut even closer to the bone. One constant throughout his career is the prevalence of whisper campaigns against opponents. The 2000 primary campaign, for example, featured a widely disseminated rumor that John McCain, tortured as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, had betrayed his country under interrogation and been rendered mentally unfit for office. More often a Rove campaign questions an opponent's sexual orientation. Bush's 1994 race against Ann Richards featured a rumor that she was a lesbian, along with a rare instance of such a tactic's making it into the public record—when a regional chairman of the Bush campaign allowed himself, perhaps inadvertently, to be quoted criticizing Richards for "appointing avowed homosexual activists" to state jobs.
Another example of Rove's methods involves a former ally of Rove's from Texas, John Weaver, who, coincidentally, managed McCain's bid in 2000. Many Republican operatives in Texas tell the story of another close race of sorts: a competition in the 1980s to become the dominant Republican consultant in Texas. In 1986 Weaver and Rove both worked on Bill Clements's successful campaign for governor, after which Weaver was named executive director of the state Republican Party. Both were emerging as leading consultants, but Weaver's star seemed to be rising faster. The details vary slightly according to which insider tells the story, but the main point is always the same: after Weaver went into business for himself and lured away one of Rove's top employees, Rove spread a rumor that Weaver had made a pass at a young man at a state Republican function. Weaver won't reply to the smear, but those close to him told me of their outrage at the nearly two-decades-old lie. Weaver was first made unwelcome in some Texas Republican circles, and eventually, following McCain's 2000 campaign, he left the Republican Party altogether. He has continued an active and successful career as a political consultant—in Texas and Alabama, among other states—and is currently working for McCain as a Democrat.But no other example of Rove's extreme tactics that I encountered quite compares to what occurred during another 1994 judicial campaign in Alabama. In that year Harold See first ran for the supreme court, becoming the rare Rove client to lose a close race. His opponent, Mark Kennedy, an incumbent Democratic justice and, as George Wallace's son-in-law, a member in good standing of Alabama's first family of politics, was no stranger to hardball politics. "The Wallace family history and what they all went through, that's pretty rough politics," says Joe Perkins, who managed Kennedy's campaign. "But it was a whole new dimension with Rove."
This August, I had lunch with Kennedy near his office in Montgomery. I had hoped to discuss how it was that he had beaten one of the savviest political strategists in modern history, and I expected to hear more of the raucous campaign tales that are a staple of Alabama politics. Neither Kennedy nor our meeting was anything like what I had anticipated. A small man, impeccably dressed and well-mannered, Kennedy appeared to derive little satisfaction from having beaten Rove. In fact, he seemed shaken, even ten years later. He quietly explained how Rove's arrival had poisoned the judicial climate by putting politics above matters of law and justice—"collateral damage," he called it, from the win-at-all-costs attitude that now prevails in judicial races.
He talked about the viciousness of the "slash-and-burn" campaign, and how Rove appealed to the worst elements of human nature. "People vote in Alabama for two reasons," Kennedy told me. "Anger and fear. It's a state that votes against somebody rather than for them. Rove understood how to put his finger right on the trigger point." Kennedy seemed most bothered by the personal nature of the attacks, which, in addition to the usual anti-trial-lawyer litany, had included charges that he was mingling campaign funds with those of a nonprofit children's foundation he was involved with. In the end he eked out a victory by less than one percentage point.
Kennedy leaned forward and said, "After the race my wife, Peggy, was at the supermarket checkout line. She picked up a copy of Reader's Digest and nearly collapsed on her watermelon. She called me and said, 'Sit down. You're not going to believe this.'" Her husband was featured in an article on "America's worst judges." Kennedy attributed this to Rove's attacks.
When his term on the court ended, he chose not to run for re-election. I later learned another reason why. Kennedy had spent years on the bench as a juvenile and family-court judge, during which time he had developed a strong interest in aiding abused children. In the early 1980s he had helped to start the Children's Trust Fund of Alabama, and he later established the Corporate Foundation for Children, a private, nonprofit organization. At the time of the race he had just served a term as president of the National Committee to Prevent Child Abuse and Neglect. One of Rove's signature tactics is to attack an opponent on the very front that seems unassailable. Kennedy was no exception.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Thanks for digging up that link, WBAS.
We need to remember not everyone has been following these sociopaths as closely as DUers. Good to link to info for the masses coming to the game more recently. :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. That's why I posted it. It's an old article on Rove, but I was
aghast at the pure evil behind Rovian tactics, and that he should profess to 'morality' makes me choke back the bile in my throat every time I hear such pretenses. I first found this link on DU prior to the elections.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
13. even HW bush hates Karl.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
14. What does Slater mean when he says "the last time Rove testified"?
Rove testified in 2005 in front of Fitzgerald regarding the Plame outing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
19. another kick. ....n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. And again
:kick:

Keep shining light on the bugs, folks. Make sure everyone sees them for what they are.

Sunlight is a damned good disinfectant! Make sure Rover gets plenty. Talk it up. Make it common water-cooler chat. Get it out there in the national dialog.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
23. I bet he was a sneaky, creepy child too!
I wonder if his teachers and friends have rememberd him in his youth?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
24. Kick for the night shift
Don't want this to get lost in the crowd this evening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
25. Not really the last time - rove testified under oath before the
DC grand jury in the Plame case.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MN ChimpH8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
26. I swear that KKKarl is the reincarnation of
Josef Goebbels (and that Coulter is the reincarnation of Martin Bormann in drag). If Rove had to swear to tell the truth he would melt on the spot like a salted slug.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC