Al From called for charter schools in 2000. Now failed schools can be made charter schools.

[madfloridian]

Here is what Al From wrote in 2000. Their plan has been building and succeeding. Public schools which made our country great have been diminished through constant attacks and less and less funding...all sure to hurt the public system.

"New Democrats" Call for School Choice

The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) is now calling for reforms including school choice and merit pay for teachers.....America is a tale of two public school systems: one that works reasonably well, although it could certainly be better, and one that is by almost any standard a disaster," says From.

.."From argues that the public school system too often serves the interests of teachers and administrators at the expense of the students themselves. It is a "monopolistic" system that "offers a 'one-size-fits-hardly-anyone' model that strangles excellence and innovation" he says.

Characterizing charter schools as "oases of innovation," From writes, "The time has come to bring life to the rest of the desert-by introducing the same forces of choice and competition to every public school in America."

From also says Democrats should work to redefine the very notion of public education itself.

"We should rid ourselves of the rigid notion that public schools are defined by who owns and operates them," he writes. "In the twenty-first century, a public school should be any school that is of the people (accountable to public authorities for its results), by the people (paid for by the public), and for the people (open to the public and geared toward public purposes)."

From advocates school choice and merit pay for teachers. The "choice" part is where the charter schools come in. The merit pay assumes we are teaching little robot like creatures who will take tests well enough to make the teacher look good. That's a big burden on children, to use them that way.

And our President Elect is in favor of these schools. Our public school system, deprived of money through the years and said to be failing...will soon become a system filled with another kind of school.

Schools are doomed to fail under NCLB.

More from the Columbia Political Review. I have the quotes, but the link seems dated. It is called "Failing to fight failure".

So what can be done when states say they need more money, and the federal government says that they don’t? Unfortunately, the answer looks like nothing. The No Child Left Behind Act is a flawed and dangerously optimistic piece of legislation that simply cannot succeed anywhere near expectations. Worse, it actually has the potential to disrupt the successful programs that states have created by focusing on testing, and it ignores problems such as ballooning classroom size, under-funded English as a Second Language programs, and other basic needs. Even if the Bush administration poured billions more into NCLB to support its goals, the money and wishful thinking still wouldn’t help the education system evolve into a sound model for a decade. The Act is doomed to fail because it does not consider the needs of the states and the speed at which they can institute reform."

In Florida things are happening pretty fast. More schools are failing, and some will soon be turned into "something else." That something else is probably a charter school which will not be as burdened with regulations as public schools are.

Turning public schools into "something else."

Schools face sanctions...18 in one county.

Restructuring a school is the most serious penalty for not meeting AYP, said Sherrie Nickell, the associate superintendent of learning.

Some restructuring options include the school becoming a charter school, replacement of staff or having a separate organization contract to run the school.

Rhonda Ashley, Polk's director of Title I schools, said for some schools the district would choose a fourth, more flexible option, which allows the district to control changes in the schools. Some of those options would include expanding or narrowing grade levels, or extending the school day or year.

Here are the options given, observe them more closely. They will be totally changing the school.

1. Becoming a charter school. Though they are start up funded with public money, they do not have to meet the regulations that public schools must meet. That is getting into some cloudy areas.

Charter schools do not have to keep students who do not perform to expectation and their standards. Correct me if some of that has changed. Where do you send those students then? Now they send them back to "public" schools whose funding is being taken away for "charter" schools.

2. Replacement of staff. So sad. Instead of providing support there are only penalties. There are so many good teachers at these 18 schools, laboring without proper tools and books.

3. Having a separate organization contract to run the school.This is the option that says "privatize" the most loudly. These schools whose funding has been sidetracked for private school vouchers and charter schools, and don't forget magnet schools which get all they need....these schools will now be turned over to a private contractor.

Many schools in Florida have already been "restructured." Very little about it in the news.

Now comes the question of what organizations would run the school. Most likely private contractors.

Privatizing in other areas, like the Medicare drug plan, like contracting our state services...always seems to end up costing more than if government does it.

In my mind charter schools are the first step to privatization of our public school system. In my mind merit pay, also advocated by the the President elect and Al From....is going to be hopelessly bogged down into figuring how to use our children as little testing automatons to judge how a teacher is doing which is done almost constantly anyway by observation.

I am glad I am retired. If I weren't, I would.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

1. It's why I won't go back to teaching. nt

[madfloridian]

2. When I walked off campus that last day....I vowed never to go back.

And I haven't. Calls to substitute, calls to volunteer....I tuned them out. Over 30 years of teaching my heart out, and I was ready to go.

You can't treat children and teachers like that to ready public schools to be privatized.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

4. After one year I saw how all the veterans were fatigued, worn-down and cynical.

Sometimes I think I'm lucky my contract couldn't be renewed or I might have stayed out of complacency.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. That is why when people ask me, why don't you get certified

I go, you nuts? The system is not designed to teach anymore

And it is not the teacher's fault either

[YvonneCa]

19. You made it longer than I...

...did. 24 years, here. :hug:

[noamnety]

3. Just a reminder

the rules vary by state. In some areas, charters are fully public schools, and cannot do that crap of kicking out poor performers any more than any other public school can do that.

That's why I'm always careful to distinguish between public charter schools (nonprofits which are sometimes even chartered by the county public intermediate school district to serve a specific need in the community, and share the same administrative oversight within the district and follow the same regulations as the other neighborhood schools) and private for-profit charter schools.

NCLB is having the same effect on public charters as it has on any other public school.

[madfloridian]

5. Why not just properly fund public schools. It worked for a couple of centuries.

Until the corporations and others started declaring schools failed. First time we heard that in our average neighborhood school...we just shook our heads. Our kids had national scores through the roof on the normed tests. We were doing great.

But they kept saying we were failing, and they kept taking money away.

There will be a funded NCLB in the Obama administration, and there will be charter schools....which is a foot in the door for business.

[noamnety]

10. I would love to have properly funded public schools

speaking as a public school teacher facing a layoff in a couple of weeks.

Some districts fund public charter schools as part of their district to meet a specific need that none of the traditional neighborhood schools in the area are able to meet - like studio ballet classes, where students from a region can be pooled together and have a couple of hours a day of ballet studio at a performing arts school, where none of the smaller schools would have enough student interest to pull that off on their own.

It's easy to say regular public schools worked for centuries, but there are always kids whose needs weren't/aren't being met in them. My public high school was in a farming region, and much as I appreciate the mandatory vocational agriculture classes in high school :eyes: it really wasn't the education I was looking for. That's not to say the teachers were bad, I don't think they were, but the curriculum sure the heck didn't match what I needed. For other kids, the more traditional school could be funded to eternity and test scores could be through the roof, but if the kid is being bullied for being too effeminate at a school that thrives on a sports culture, every day is slowly going to kill that child.

None of that is an argument for privatization of schools, but within the public school system, I was happy my daughter had the option of traditional school, a school with a focus on the arts, or a school with a focus on science and technology. Each of those was free, local, and had different advantages and disadvantages. One of them was a charter school, two weren't. The one which had admissions requirements to weed out the lower test scores, by the way, was not the charter school.

[mopinko]

27. arne duncan's record in chicago-

there has been a lot of support for innovations here, and we do now have lots of charters. in a system as big as ours, there are a lot of kids who are square pegs. you can make a school for them.
besides math and science academies, college prep high schools, there are several "alternative" schools, several schools run by the teachers unions, one run by the university of chicago, whose lab school is a long time enormous success. (the obama girls go there now.)
yes, there are a few that do not use union teachers. in chicago the teachers union has not always been on the side of the angels. in many cases they have been quite intransigent, and have protected many bad teachers.
these charters are all free public schools, and they get the same per student allotment as the public schools.

what arne duncan (and ritchie daley) have done here can honestly be described as saving chicago. white flight was hollowing out neighborhoods, and killing the tax base. schools were the number one reason for that. the flow has now been reversed, with many people returning to the city. and the chicago archdiocese has closed quite a few of their schools, which were the only other game in town for decades.
i hope arne gives the country what he has given chicago. things changed on nov 4th, and al from is no longer in charge of jack shit.

[alstephenson]

29. Thanks for sharing your perspective of Mr. Duncan.

I, too, am hopeful that he can give the country what he has given Chicago.

[madfloridian]

34. We have the art, music, and science schools...

They are good ideas. BUT NOT when they take money from students who needing more of the basics in education.

There is a way to have those classes within traditional schools that won't take money from the basics of education.

[noamnety]

72. I agree that is has to be in combination with the academics

it shouldn't be at the expense of the academics. I feel the same way about sports.

Sometimes the culture of an arts school is just not compatible with the culture of a traditional school. At our school, the boys are comfortable wearing ballet tights in the middle of the hallway or performing on stage like that, but at some schools the social pressure to be traditional jocks would not allow them to have that sort of freedom at school. There are some fundamental messages schools send about their own culture and what is valued. But I think you and I agree that same percentage of resources in both schools needs to go to the basic academics, so that all students are having access to equivalent educational opportunities.

There's one view that says consolidation of schools is the most efficient way to meet all the students' needs, and another view that says that smaller schools and specialized missions are better for some of the students. I come down on the size of smaller schools (not just class size, but smaller schools themselves). I guess you could argue that smaller schools take away funds from each other by default and the more consolidated/larger the school, the better it is for all students. I don't believe that to be true - but I've always preferred smaller schools. Even for college, I opted for a college with about 300 students. That's about the same size as the high school where I teach, and after my daughter went there for 4 years, she also opted for a college of about 300 people.

The school size relates to theories of the functional sizes of communities in general, and actually 300 is a bit large for that. To really be an ideal community, there should be about 150-200 people max. We've exceeded that a bit, obviously.

[davefromqueens]

56. Cha Ching

YOu nail it.

Fund the schools properly.

Charter schools bring all these outside agendas in. You don't have protection for teachers thus you won't get quality teachers. It's ripe for graft.

Oh and since geographic lines determine who goes to which schools, we actually do have choice for the most part.

The charter school movement is NOT about education. It's about a way to make money off of education. The administrators get the money, the teachers and kids and parents get the shaft.

[Maestro]

6. Merit pay and charter schools as a way to improve public school teaching

are beyond stupid. I am too tired to explain why other than the fact that merit pay would be fine if teachers all dealt with the same student, but they do not. If I were a salesman and I sold X product and so did B salesperson, given that X product is the same then if salesperson B sold more than me he or she deserves a bonus. However, teachers do not deal with like products. We deal with all sorts of children with varying backgrounds who all have different learning styles and rates. It's ridiculous to think that merit pay is in any way a fair way to financially motivate teachers.

[madfloridian]

7. Excellent points.

I have been talking to some very discouraged teachers in our area, and they feeling unbearable pressure. The last school where I taught was in a poor neighborhood, but we had super teachers who really cared. But they kept taking textbook money and supply money and giving a double dose to magnet and choice schools. These teachers who worked so hard had to buy whatever they needed and pay for it themselves.

[Maestro]

11. I am an asst. principal here in the Dallas Ft. Worth area

in a very inner city school even though technically it is in a suburb. It is very poor and up until this year we were on the PEG list which repukes here in Texas pushed through probably 5 years ago now. Anyhow PEG stands for Public Education Grant. Since we scored low in science, we were on this list. It is a nice little name, but what it is, in reality, is money set aside to help people move out of poor performing schools. My school is not poor performing. It is a school that faces many obstacles both academic and societal, but I will put many of my kids up against the elite schools any day. These kids work damn hard for what they earn. The teachers work doubly hard to teach them. For the past 4 years, I have had to tell parents that if they wanted, they could request a transfer, out of the school. The last laugh is on the repukes. Only three families requested tranfers and none actually went through with it! Oh and this year we officially were taken off the list! And PEG had nothing to do with it. We wanted better science performance with or without PEG!

[madfloridian]

22. That money set aside to help kids move to another school....vouchers.

Your words:

"what it is, in reality, is money set aside to help people move out of poor performing schools. My school is not poor performing. It is a school that faces many obstacles both academic and societal, but I will put many of my kids up against the elite schools any day."

I know that feeling. Many schools in FL are to the point of what the NCLB calls failure, but really isn't. Kids can then transfer to a school they want. Not sure of the exact status of these "vouchers" in Florida right now...but they are not about to give up. With two brand new religious right oriented Supreme Court judges in FL, they just might win next time.

First the lower courts ruled in favor of Jeb's amendment..breaking down barriers between church and state.

"Get that? Students can now attend private religious schools with our taxpayer money, and those schools will not be held accountable for letting us know how these students did.

"About 300,000 students in Florida attend private schools in kindergarten through 12th grade, according to the state Education Department. If all became eligible for tuition reimbursement -- or vouchers -- districts could lose as much as $2.3 billion in state and local revenue, said Wayne Blanton, executive director of the Florida School Boards Association. 'You could instantly have a huge run on public-education dollars,' he said."

That was in August. It was appealed to the Supreme Court which struck both amendments off the ballot in September.

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/RelChStSep_90/5353_90.htm

"Boca Raton, FL, September 3, 2008 …. The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today hailed a Florida Supreme Court decision which has "safeguarded the religious freedom of all Floridians." The Court's ruling struck down two pernicious proposed amendments that would have substantially rewritten the Florida Constitution and its protection of religion.

Andrew Rosenkranz, ADL Florida Regional Director, said:

"The Florida Supreme Court has acted decisively to stop this onslaught on our religious freedom. In rebuking the activist Taxation and Budget Reform Commission, the Court acted prudently and has safeguarded the religious freedom of all Floridians."

In this case, ADL acted as legal counsel in conjunction with the Florida Education Association and other like-minded organizations. The proposed amendments that were struck down resulted from the 2007-08 term of the Florida Taxation and Budget Reform Commission (TBRC). The order underscores the Court's agreement with ADL's argument that the TBRC exceeded its constitutional authority in seeking to place Amendments 7 and 9 before Florida voters. The TBRC has the limited authority to place on the ballot constitutional amendments addressing "taxation" and "state budgetary process." A formal opinion will be forthcoming from the Court."

With the two new additions to the court, might not happen that way next time.

[Maestro]

42. Exactly!

PEG was a grant disguised as a voucher. A full-blown voucher program is always introduced when the Texas government meets every two years. Thus far, it has always been defeated, but some of these stupid little, but no less worrisome, program get by.

[Hippo_Tron]

39. So what you're syaing is that the Republicans want to take the most talented kids from your school..

And move them to other schools?

[Maestro]

43. In theory, but for the most part, the familes thus far,

have not judged a school by test scores solely and now since we are off the list, no one can ask for these transfers through the PEG decree.

[Hippo_Tron]

46. What do you think their political agenda is, then?

I suppose theoretically it is to destroy public education. Their strategy seems to be that they will remove all of the well performing students so that all that is left are the at risk and poor performing students. So what do they plan to do with all of the poor performing students?

[madfloridian]

52. Ding Ding Ding

We have a winner. You just asked the right question. Now figure out the answer because no one is yet thinking in those terms except lowly teachers who care about their kids.

[Maestro]

59. As far as I can tell they want a reason to keep

under performing schools under performing so that they can blame it all on the teachers and then bring in privatization. I seriously do not know why some hate public education so much. We accept all kids regardless of race, religion, creed, skin color, medical condition, immigrant status, language spoken, etc...However privatized schools can set conditions which leads us back to segregation again. It befuddles me. I see it as going backwards. :shrug:

[Hippo_Tron]

65. But there is a law saying that all children must be educated

Do you think that the Republicans would do away with this law if they could? Otherwise the under performing students would have to attend one of those private schools with a government voucher.

And I don't think that people hate public education so much as they are trying to do what is best for their child and their community but not necessarily what is the best for the education system as a whole. Charter schools can do some good on the micro level. But on the macro level I don't think they are a good solution.

[Pale Blue Dot]

9. Charter schools may APPEAR to work for a very important reason.

I am a teacher in a magnet school in a major US city. Magnet schools are not quite the same as charter schools - magnet schools are so-called because they are public schools that draw students from the suburbs (in theory increasing diversity) - but they do have some similarities. The most important trait that they share is that you must enter a lottery to get into the school. That fact is very important when discussing charter schools, because it has a huge impact on the type of students that are enrolled there.

My school is considered one of the best in my city (and one of the best in the country, according to U.S. News and World Report), and that has a lot to do with the quality of the teachers and the administrators. However, it also has to do with the lottery and a little-discussed fact about inner-city education. Income levels are the single most important factor in determining the future success of a student. The 2nd most important? A stable home life. And that's where the lottery has a huge impact.

100% of my students have parents who cared (or had the time to care) enough about their children to enter them into the lottery to get into the magnet school. As a result, I have students whose parents are involved and expect their children to go to college. I don't ever see, in my school, the children of overworked and/or undereducated parents who don't have the time or the inclination to even enter their children in a lottery to get them to a better school.

I have friends and colleagues at the standard public schools in my city that are just as skilled, if not more so, than me. However, their student base consists of the leftovers, the ones whose parents could not put enough emphasis on their education to enter them into a lottery to get them into a smaller, "better", school.

And that is why I believe that the data will show that charter schools in major cities are effective, at least at first. It has nothing to do, necessarily, with the teachers, the administrators, or the school philosophy, and everything to do with the lottery, which weeds out the children whose parents don't, or can't, care about their children's education.

[madfloridian]

12. I have had many sent back to my class when magnet schools refused to keep them.

Yes, of course the special schools score higher, you are right. They don't have to deal with the everyday average and below average learners.

AND the public schools are seeing their money go to these special schools, and there is not as much to help those who need it.

But anyway, charter schools are coming. They are the first step to letting business in the door.

I notice that anything I feel passionate about, rights for women, public schools open to anyone, well-trained teachers, well-funded schools, are not as popular at DU as they used to be.

The gay community is suffering here a lot now, and that is sad. The policies of the conservative Democrats have taken root now in our party.

There is very little understanding of what it will be like without public schools.

[Pale Blue Dot]

16. DU, unfortunately, is a reflection of the Democratic party as a whole:

Pragmatism first, truth and principle second. I think we're all about the learn (the hard way) why the latter is more important.

[LisaM]

30. I agree with you and recommended your post

My dad was a public school teacher - and a good one - his whole career. He had to eke out his income by coaching, and teaching tennis in the summers. He was often up until midnight grading papers, and was always at school before 7:00 a.m. Yes, he got good benefits and now has a decent retirement. But it wasn't the public trough and it wasn't a gravy train. The demonization of public schools, tenure, and the teachers' unions enrages me. This is a systematic attack and people buy into it.

Obama is going to have to prove himself to me on this. I am not comfortable with his support for merit raises and charter schools.

[madfloridian]

37. Yes, it has been a systematic attack for years on public schools.

Merit pay disturbs me in the field of teaching because we are working with human beings, not little test takers.

[noamnety]

15. I think we get a broader range of students than you.

We have kids who are homeless, ones whose parents have pretty much abandoned them, right along with the ones whose parents are involved (and in some cases overinvolved) with their lives. We get some who are with us because their old schools like to use us as a dumping grounds for kids who are screwing up theirthis school out. I used to resent that, but now I see that sometimes really we just are a better environment for those kids, and over the course of a few years, I think we do have a significant impact on their lives ... so I can't see that as a bad thing. It's what's best for the kids. But sheesh, as far as NCLB goes, that's not helping us any. :)

And we get kids of course who are with us just directly because of the mission of the school. They have talent in the arts, and we have a culture that values that above sports (which we don't have at all). Our "jocks" as one kid joked in their graduation speech, are the guys in tights dancing down the hallway. And we have an active GSA group that I am so proud our principal mentions at open houses without apology ... so we are developing a reputation of being a safe haven for kids who otherwise get bullied or picked on. That's not our official mission, but it's a comment we see repeatedly when kids describe in surveys what our school is about.

I agree with you that the quality of the education itself is a function of a bunch of things that test scores will never measure, and those test scores which sadly measure the "success" of a school have as much to do with the kids a school receives than the teachers themselves. I'm all in favor of letting kids go to a large sports school if they want, or a small arts school if they want, with both of those being public.

What I'd really like is to lose the idea of district boundaries, because I think they are perpetuating segregation by class and race. My opinion there is colored by living in one of the most segregated places in the country. Without charters - or magnets - children's education is restricted based on their family's income and the neighborhood their family can afford. I find that inherently unequal. I don't know the solution, but I think open enrollment in any public school might be a good start.

[LWolf]

58. I worked in a couple of similar schools for many years.

You nailed that one.

Comparing schools that operate under different sets of rules, especially rules that automatically "sort" enrollment, is simply not valid.

[jazzjunkysue]

13. Both issues sound good as sound bites but dissolve under any detailed discussion

about actual implementation.

Here are just a few little nuggets that fall out of my brain without even trying:

1. Special Ed would end in one year under "merit pay." Go ahead: Pay the people who are trying to teach the neediest kids less, and see how long they stick around. You want a strong, talented, dedicated teacher to help your autistic/dislexic/hearing impaired child? Then tell me how you'll decide which teachers "merit" a first rate paycheck.

2. What makes a teacher deserve merit pay? Test scores? Crossword puzzles? Extra credit? All A's? Nice room decor? I'd love to know what the hell "merit" is in teaching. Most of the teachers who catch the most negative attention from students and parents are getting the most learning out of the kids.

3. Does anyone seriously think principals won't abuse the power to disseminate "merit" pay? Does anyone have enough confidence in principals to believe they can tell mediocre teaching from great teaching? Don't make me laugh. Most principals really believe a "good" teacher keeps her students in their chairs, silently reading or copying notes all period. Your kids are really gonna love that.

4. Local school boards will limit "merit pay" to a very small percentage of teachers just to save a few bucks. They have to get re-elected every 2 years.

5. And the only difference between Public schools and charter schools is the teachers don't have to be certified and so can be hired cheaper, and probably won't get job security. That means all the kids will get a's and not learn much. Teachers in charter schools try to avoid annoying parents at all costs. That means nothing gets done. They may also be exempt from standardized testing, so, it will be impossible to compare them against the public schools.

I could go on and on.

[madfloridian]

14. Applause for your excellent points.

:applause:

[noamnety]

17. I agree with 1-4 without qualification.

Number 5 must depend on region. In our state, it's true you can get hired without certification if you have the vocational experience and a degree in your field, but once you are hired you have to be enrolled in a certification program and making progress toward that. Within a few years, they earn their certification, so if a charter's been around for awhile, it's a good bet nearly all the teachers are certified, and any new hires that aren't will be soon. Hitting the goal for "qualified" and "highly qualified" teachers is an NCLB requirement for us, just like anyone else.

I didn't understand this comment: "and probably won't get job security. That means all the kids will get a's and not learn much. Teachers in charter schools try to avoid annoying parents at all costs. That means nothing gets done."

The pressure to pass students isn't coming, at our school, from teachers. They generally push to hold kids accountable. For us, the pressure to pass when we don't feel they've earned it comes entirely from administrators - and above them from NCLB. It's the same pressure any school is facing. If you fail the kids, they are more likely to drop out, and then the drop out rate bites you in the ass when your school is rated.

A public charter is not exempt from any standardized testing. I don't know really anything about private charters (or laws where you are). In our area, the public charters have actually far more oversight than neighborhood schools, to combat the public perception that we are operating with no oversight at all.

[jazzjunkysue]

18. You're right: Local laws determine charter standards. And that's the point:

Stake holders, meaning parents who are expecting a solid education for their buck, really aren't sure how or if the charters are being held accountable. That's the premise behind public schools: The rules are state wide and don't change from year to year. They're stabile. That's what makes a predictable outcome.

The purpose of the charter is to avoid some rules. You have to wonder, why?

[noamnety]

20. No, that's not the purpose of the charter.

It might be the purpose of some charters in some areas, but as a blanket statement, it's not accurate.

As for public school rules, yes they stay (relatively) stable from year to year - and they apply to public schools, including public charter schools. Which is why I keep differentiating between them, rather than using the broad brush and equating for profit private corporate schools with public nonprofit charters run by already existing school districts.

The purpose of a charter is to set out a specific mission for a school. Not to bypass rules. It's like a magnet school in that way - that it focuses a mission, like determining that the school will use montessori instruction methods school wide. That's not "to bypass a rule" - it's enabling something new to take place. Admittedly, my experience is probably influenced because our school is in this area and falls entirely under public school rules. I understand from writing to friends studying schools and demographics in other areas that corporations have used charters in shameful ways ... with no real focused mission at all other than "we will REALLY teach your kids" - they stay open for a few years, use public funds to buy facilities, and then ditch the school when the going gets rough - but Golly, they own the facilities now. In that case, I would say yes, the only reason they exist is to bypass some sort of regulations.

In a true public charter, even the facility and equipment is still owned by the state, there's no pocketing of profits or building up equity in private facilities if the administration spends less on the kids than what they bring in financially. (Meanwhile, our traditional neighborhood schools have been busted for administrators embezzling public funds, but that's a whole other issue.) The testing is the same as for any public student, the inspections and oversight is the same as for any public school. Our health benefits and retirement are handled by the exact same payroll and benefits people who do it for the other intermediate school district employees. And our AYP criteria is exactly the same as the other public schools in the county.

[alstephenson]

31. Thank you for your concise response.

There certainly is a lot of mistaken perceptions regarding charter schools here on DU. I work for a non-profit fund that makes loans to charter schools nationally for facilities financing. I can't think of one state in which charter schools are NOT public schools, although there may be a few.

[madfloridian]

35. There's a world of misrepresentation and misleading use of terms...

to avoid saying that the goal is to actually let businesses start getting their hands on education in a big way. Otherwise, why not fund the public schools? Make some modifications in small ways, but not over turn the entire system as Al From called for. He called for a total transformation.

[ColbertWatcher]

40. I think you should post this as its own thread.

No offense to the OP, but this is good.

Maybe allow a few more ideas to fall out of your head and make it something everyone can think about.

[Hippo_Tron]

66. My only gripe is with #1

Are you saying it's not possible to evaluate the special ed teacher on a different scale than other teachers? Seems like an easily solved problem to me.

The others are indeed inevitable problems that come with any system of evaluation that is done by human beings.

[JDPriestly]

21. The focus should be on changing the child's learning environment at home.

When the child's parents read to the child, talk to the child and help the child with his or her homework EVERY DAY as parents do in European countries in which I lived, schools succeed.

You can't raise corn from dandelion seeds. You can't educate a child who is not ready for school and not given the proper encouragement and assistance at home.

[Hippo_Tron]

67. Thankfully the President-Elect understands that and wants to try and improve that

The aim for the past 8 years seems to have been how to address under performing schools. I think the question we really need to ask is how do we address under performing students. If the kids are ready to learn and encouraged from home then I don't think under performing schools will be nearly as much of a problem.

[madfloridian]

68. I think Obama has already spoken out strongly on charter schools.

Underperforming schools of course can be helped by parental involvement. But public schools well funded with good teachers who are hired with high standards and paid well...solves the problem.

We do not need to have a program like NCLB so that failing schools can be turned into charters.

It's been a deliberate planned process, and schools have been undermined for years.

[Hippo_Tron]

69. See I don't think it does entirely solve the problem

You've said it yourself when discussing merit pay. If the kids aren't willing or able to learn then the teachers can't teach them no matter how good they are. The reason there is political will for charter schools and vouchers is that everybody wants to do what is good for themselves. Parents who want a better education from their kids will if possible take a voucher or move their kids to a charter school. If there aren't large numbers of under performing students in public schools, then the incentive for charter schools and vouchers no longer exists.

Of course, you are right that teachers do need to be paid drastically more and public schools do need to be funded better. But so long as there are large numbers of under performing students in public schools, parents of those who do perform will try to take their kids out of those public schools.

[madfloridian]

74. We are losing our public school system for political reasons.

In Florida Jeb used vouchers for private schools to appeal to the poor and minorities. Then as more money was taken away from public schools, more classes in the fine arts and college level courses were taken away.

And for political reasons our Democrats remained silent, because it is just too hard to stand up and say we are not going to destroy a public school system in our country.

So we lose our public schools. So what? So effing what? They never were any good anyway. :sarcasm:

But then I'm okay, I got my pension...a pretty darned good one. As the changes occur, every teacher for him or herself.

Yes, I am bitter. Our party will deliver the schools up to the private sector with nary a whimper.

[dysfunctional press]

71. i don't know how strongly he has spoken, but i do know that he supports them as an option.

nt

[madfloridian]

23. 28% more schools failing NCLB standards in 2008

http://www.edweek.org/login.html?source=http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2008/12/18/16ayp.h28.html&destination=http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2008/12/18/16ayp.h28.html&levelId=2100

" Almost 30,000 schools in the United States failed to make adequate yearly progress under the No Child Left Behind Act in the 2007-08 school year. For states with comparable data for the 2006-07 school year, the number of such schools increased by 28 percent.

Half those schools missed their achievement goals for two or more years, putting almost one in five of the nation’s public schools in some stage of a federally mandated process designed to improve student achievement. The number facing sanctions represents a 13 percent increase for states with comparable data over the 2006-07 school year.

Of those falling short of their academic-achievement goals, 3,559 schools—4 percent of all schools rated based on their progress—are facing the law’s more serious interventions in the current school year."

If they fail as "public schools" they will have to become something else. I think that has been the plan all along.

Just depends on who is waiting to pick up the pieces.

[4 t 4]

24. Isn't that one of PNAC's goals

to privatize all schools not in those words but on point.

[Hannah Bell]

48. i'm sure it was the intention. nclb results in regularly increasing %'s

of failing schools in its very design. mathematical certainty, no matter how good the schools.

[madfloridian]

25. New Dem idea: Let mayors be in charge of charter schools.

I am afraid my reaction to this is that it is one of the worst ideas I have heard. Whatever happened to school boards, to state and national school bodies with rules and regulations?

Oh, my, I was stunned to read this. A country should not give up its public school system to political elected figures so lightly.

http://dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=139&subid=273&contentid=252608

"One innovative approach to expand the range of charter school authorizers is to allow mayors to charter public schools in their cities. As a skilled workforce and quality schools become increasingly important to cities' economic health and their ability to attract a stable population of families, mayors across the country are looking for ways to improve their city's schools. Allowing more mayors to authorize public charter schools has a number of benefits:

# Mayors can use charter schools to directly improve the quality of public education opportunities in their communities and provide high-quality options for students who are struggling in traditional public schools. This is particularly helpful because poorly performing schools tend to be concentrated in urban communities.

# Allowing mayors to authorize public charter schools can expand opportunities for new charter schools to open."

# Since mayors are responsible for a number of services within a jurisdiction, including transportation, safety, health, and facilities, they are well situated to coordinate and respond to the needs of charter schools and their students. Accessing these types of services and resources is often a challenge for charter schools.

# Because mayors and other elected officials are themselves held accountable for results through an election process, schools chartered by mayors are also subject to stronger public accountability."

[MyOwnPeace]

26. Reply to some......

Finnfan:
I am impressed - you have a great grasp of the overall problem with the "system."
Your quote: "It has nothing to do, necessarily, with the teachers, the administrators, or the school philosophy, and everything to do with the lottery, which weeds out the children whose parents don't, or can't, care about their children's education."
Give me parents that care and we can rule the world! Yes, "helicopter parents" (they're hovering over you forever!) can be a "challenge," but give me them over the ones that are never at home / working two schedules / "You're the principal, you fix the problem" and a staff that cares and we'll blow the socks off of any test!

jazzjunkysue:
I am horrendously offended by this statement of yours:
"3. Does anyone seriously think principals won't abuse the power to disseminate "merit" pay? Does anyone have enough confidence in principals to believe they can tell mediocre teaching from great teaching? Don't make me laugh. Most principals really believe a "good" teacher keeps her students in their chairs, silently reading or copying notes all period. Your kids are really gonna love that."

If that has been your experience with administration in your career, I feel sorry for you. However, for you to do a broad stroke of your brush on all principals is terribly offending and wrong! I can only hope that you can and will move on to a school / district that does promote good education and positive relationships between all stakeholders.

(my credentials: 24 years in the classrooms as a teacher - 11 years in administration as a principal and staff development / curriculum director).

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. 29 year career teacher here

I have worked for more principals than I can count and ONE was a decent administrator. ONE. In fact my main opposition to merit pay is that I don't trust administrators to decide who gets merit raises and who does not.

I am sick to death of teachers taking the flak for the problems in education when we have very little control over the issues that cause these problems. Very few who slam public schools ever blame the administrators. Yet research going back decades shows that administrators have a greater impact on achievement than teachers.

I also wish there was a way we could hold parents accountable. :)

No offense. I have no idea if you are a decent administrator or not. I am just relating my own experience. And BTW, my dad was a principal for 25 years. So I don't hate principals. I have just not worked for many who were very good at their jobs.

[MyOwnPeace]

64. That's too bad.............

that you've not worked for many that were good at their jobs.
I agree - teachers should NOT take the flak for the problems in education, especially when they do NOT have control over the issues. However, teacher control is not the driving issue that will bring about what is needed to improve the education system (not saying that it is as bad as headlines say!).
There needs to be an understanding that administrators AND teachers are both working for the same objective - the best education possible for the kids.
THAT is the bottom line - FOR THE KIDS!
Thanks for your 29 years of dedication to the kids - I'm sure there are some that will never forget you.

[madfloridian]

63. In our county failed teachers often got promoted to principal.

Demoted upstairs. I had a couple of great ones through the years, but one was so bad they kept firing her and hiring her back when she threatened lawsuits. One incident was so bad the principal called to tattle on herself to the county superintendent. He then called the teacher and pleaded with her to file charges, grievances. Yeh, right. She was trying to survive until retirement. Filing a grievance against a principal they couldn't fire..impossible.

There are many good principals, many of them are close friends. But there are some lousy ones still.

[mod mom]

28. Here's what Al From said after the 2000 Election:

Al From, the DLC's founder and CEO, opened a freewheeling discussion forum by arguing that Democrat Al Gore made a huge tactical mistake by continually emphasizing that he would "fight for the people and not the powerful" as the nation's first president of the 21st Century.

-snip

http://www.progress.org/goredlc2.htm

Get that? Gore made a HUGE TACTICAL MISTAKE BY ... EMPHASIZING HE WOULD "FIGHT FOR THE PEOPLE AND NOT THE POWERFUL"

FUCK AL FROM!

[wyldwolf]

33. when one reads the entire piece, not just an excerpt or misquotes, there's little to argue with...

...realistically anyway.

The actual excerpt:

"Though he has long been a leader in shaping technology policy, Gore ignored the New Economy in his election campaign, seldom even using the words. His populist slogan, "the people vs. the powerful," evoked the specter of class warfare. And he offered a laundry list of government programs, hardly even talking about his own superb effort to streamline government. Proponents of Gore's strategy argue that it was aimed at winning support of downscale white working-class voters, whom they see as the electorate's critical swing voters. They argue that the strategy was a success -- that it produced a "progressive majority" if you add the votes won by Ralph Nader to those that Gore won.

They maintain that Gore lost not because of his populist, big government message but because of cultural and moral issues, fueled by resentment of President Clinton's behavior and by Gore's own personal shortcomings. I think they're wrong on all counts. The assertion that Nader's marginal vote hurt Gore is not borne out by polling data. When exit pollers asked voters how they would have voted in a two-way race, Bush actually won by a point. That was better than he did with Nader in the race."

It's so easy for some fly-by-night rabble rousing writer to pick a few choice quotes and toss them to the ravenous "progressives."

[mod mom]

61. UM... GORE WON!

Published on Thursday, November 15, 2001 in the Long Island, NY Newsday
Not That It Was Reported, but Gore Won
by Jim Naureckas

IN JOURNALISM, it's called "burying the lead": A story starts off with what everyone already knows, while the real news - the most surprising, significant or never-been-told-before information - gets pushed down where people are less likely to see it.
That's what happened to the findings of the media study of the uncounted votes from last year's Florida presidential vote. A consortium of news outlets - including The New York Times, The Washington Post, Tribune Co. (Newsday's parent company), The Wall Street Journal, Associated Press and CNN - spent nearly a year and $900,000 reexamining every disputed ballot.

The consortium determined that if the U.S. Supreme Court had allowed the ongoing recount to go through, George W. Bush would still likely have ended up in the White House. That's because the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court - as well as the more limited recount asked for by Democratic candidate Al Gore - only involved so-called undervotes, ballots that when counted mechanically registered no choice for president.

Gore and the Florida Supreme Court ignored overvotes - votes where mechanical counting registered more than one vote - on the assumption that there would be no way to tell which of the multiple candidates the voter actually intended to pick.

But as the consortium found when it actually looked at the overvotes, one often could tell what the voter's intent was. Many of the overvotes involved, for example, a voter punching the hole next to a candidate's name, and then writing in the same candidate's name.

Since the intent of the voter is clear, these are clearly valid votes under Florida law. And Gore picked up enough of such votes that it almost didn't matter what standard you used when looking at undervotes - whether you counted every dimple or insisted on a fully punched chad, the consortium found that Gore ended up the winner of virtually any full reexamination of rejected ballots.

-snip

http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1115-02.htm

YES HE SHOULD HAVE WON A LARGER MARGIN BUT THE COUNTRY WAS SUFFERING FROM CLINTON FATIGUE AFTER "It depends what the meaning...."

[wyldwolf]

32. Sounds like Barack Obama!

[madfloridian]

36. Yes, he does intend to continue NCLB and to push charter schools.

I don't like his education policies much, and many teachers do not.

I am sure you will set me straight.

[wyldwolf]

44. nope, I won't

:)

But I am curious why you put so much effort into these anti-DLC diatribes daily when Obama more often than not hold the same positions (and you know he does.) Shouldn't honesty dictate you mention Obama? Or are you concerned you won't get the number of high fives and recs on your thread?

[madfloridian]

49. I did say in the OP that Obama held the same views.

You really are still on the warpath to make me look bad to others.

Does it make you feel better?

You have done this for 5 years? Is it working?

[wyldwolf]

50. ah yes... 'president elect.'

Interesting, still, the focus is on someone as insignificant as Al From and not the 'president elect.'

[madfloridian]

51. Geez. picky picky

[wyldwolf]

53. right. kinda like going after someone in lower and middle management and not the CEO

[LuckyTheDog]

38. My child attends a charter school -- and I am glad he does

The mainstream Detroit Public Schools system is throughly messed up. As I saw it, my choices were to: 1) Pay $10,000 per year for private school 2) move to the suburbs or, 3) get him into a charter school.

I don't have an extra $10,000 per year after taxes. And, my commitment to the city is such that I really did not want us to be just another white (more or less), middle-class family that fled to the 'burbs. The charter school is not perfect. But the teachers, students and parents are motivated. They also get good results. My son's reading and math knowledge have both improved greatly this year.

Of course, the fact that my wife or I (and sometimes both of us) take the time to sit with him and do homework every night has a great deal to do with his success -- as do his own attitude and curious mind. But the school sets the tone and creates a good framework in which to operate. I appreciate that.

Hence, I do not apologize for "abandoning" the DPS system for a charter public school.

[madfloridian]

41. That is your choice and your right.

I am just pointing out that this is taking money away from the long time American tradition of public schools.

28% more public schools failed the NCLB standards this year. Yet included in that are some of the best schools in Florida. Why? Because when you are an A school, you must improve the next year or be called a failure. Think about it.

They are trying to make the public schools fail by taking funding away.

If that is what people want....that is what they are getting.

It is most surely your right to do what you think is right for your child.

If any other program had that kind of problem and had proved to be a failure, it would be discontinued. Yet, this one will be continued, enlarged, and funded.

[LuckyTheDog]

45. NCLB is fucked up, for sure

But that does not begin to explain the problems with the DPS overall. Don't get me wrong, DPS has some great, dedicated teachers and principals. However, they toil inside a system riddled with corruption and bureaucratic incompetence. They also fight an uphill battle against the influence of dysfunctional families, poverty and the constant threat of violence in the lives of their students.

The school system is about to be taken over by the state (again) because the administration did not realize it was running a $400 million deficit until it was too late to fix the problem. For months, the school board was told that there was going to be a small surplus! That is a math error of monumental proportions.

I think it is well past time for the feds to start helping inner-city schools, rather than setting them up for more failure with crap like NCLB. On the other hand, until more parents start to actually care about the education of their kids -- and administrators stop thinking of their budgets as piggy banks to enrich cronies and relatives -- the problem of poor city schools won't go away.

In cities like Detroit, parents who really want to be engaged have little choice: They go to private or charter schools, or they face years of frustration. I wish that were not so, but it is.

[recoveringrepublican]

47. Both my children attend a charter school, solely because they learn 2 languages there

If our neighborhood school (which is brand new and 4 blocks away) taught a second language I would send both my children there in a heart beat. Obviously with the way things are now, that probably isn't feasible in Florida.

I really have nothing to compare it to, I guess if you want to look at standardized tests (which they take, including the FCAT here in Florida) they both tested above average. That is also the average of the school. They consistently test above average on the FCAT.

[Yukari Yakumo]

70. I've seen public schools for myself

And I've got to say, they're a complete mess.

And the teachers are far from faultless here. Though the real blame sits with know-nothing administrators who'd buy anything the snake oil salesman offers them, and a certification process which encourages faddish, ineffective programs to proliferate. For the past two decades, the powers that be have been completely wrong-headed in terms of priorities.

I wouldn't blame anyone who decided to send their kids to private schools.

[madfloridian]

75. Huge blanket assessment. How many schools have you seen?

Did you see them all before more funding was cut? Before they were all reduced to teaching to the NCLB and FCAT tests? Or after?

I have seen private schools that are bad also. I have seen good ones. I know teachers in both.

What you just said about public schools in general is what has been done for years now.

[sendero]

54. Charter Schools..

... from the same "free markets can do no wrong" idiot assholes who brought you the impending depression.

I cannot WAIT for everyone to WAKE THE FUCK UP and realize that there is not a "free market" solution to every damn problem.

A couple of years from now should do it.

Oh, and while I'm at it, studies I've read give no indication whatsoever that charter schools perform any better than public schools, quite the contrary.

[davefromqueens]

55. Charter Schools Are Mostly Failures

It's a scam to pay teachers less. They also lack the infrastructure.

Oh and while teachers are being paid less with no tenure, administrators often line their pockets.

So who is going to work in this environment? Answer - very few good teachers.

[LWolf]

57. Great explanation for why I oppose charter schools,

no matter WHO is pushing them.

Thank you.

[madfloridian]

62. Example from PA schools....schools out to bid for outside management to take over.

There is always care to avoid the use of the word privatize, but there are too many instances where it is clear this is happening. It appears to be joint public/private enterprise with less oversight.

I don't know how this worked out in PA, but it's a good example of how it is done. They turned their school districts, 11 of them, over to private companies to manage in 2001.

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?contentid=3364&knlgareaid=110&subsecid=181

" High poverty Chester-Upland, located near Philadelphia, has long been one of Pennsylvania's lowest-performing school districts and a frustration for educators in the state. An abysmal 68 percent of the district's 6,780 students are in the bottom group of students statewide in reading and math performance. Early in 2000, Pennsylvania passed a law allowing state takeover of chronically low-performing districts after three years of low performance on Pennsylvania's assessments. The law included a special provision allowing immediate action in Chester-Upland and Harrisburg.

In Chester-Upland, Pennsylvania officials are putting 11 of the district's 14 schools out to bid for outside management to take over. The three other schools were already independent public charter schools. The state solicited contractors and ultimately four different providers were certified to bid for the right to run schools in Chester-Upland. All four of the bidders were for-profit entities, although one, Edison Schools, partnered with the local teachers union to submit a joint proposal. The other competitors were LearnNow Inc., Mosaica Education Inc., and the SABIS Educational System.

The state established criteria for the districts, including intradistrict public school choice, school autonomy, high standards, and quality assessments. Potential school operators submitted proposals that outlined their educational philosophy and school management and design model, and they detailed how their proposal would improve education in Chester-Upland, submitting clear timetables and goals for improving student achievement.

In March contracts for the 11 schools were awarded. Edison Schools will take over six of the schools, LearnNow will manage four schools, including the district's high school, and Mosaica will run one elementary school. This move certainly hasn't been without controversy. The takeover provisions were challenged in court by the state teachers unions, and the idea of bringing in for-profit companies to manage the schools sparked a predictable outcry. In addition, many officials in Chester-Upland opposed the state intervention."

[defendandprotect]

73. DLC supporting charter schools --

another right-wing concept pushed by DLC --

Meanwhile, it looks like the "failed schools" are the Charter schools,

according to reports ---

[Maestro]

76. This was sent to me as a member Dr. Stephen Krashen's

mailing list. I think the article by Alfie Kohn has much better recommendations that this crap from From.

Because of copyright I did not post the whole piece.

NCLB has provided no new information about which schools need help,
nor has it provided that help. Instead — in the name of
"accountability" — it has created pressure to ratchet up the least
valuable forms of instruction. Alarmingly, proponents would apply
similarly simplistic and heavy-handed tactics to preschools and
universities, too.

Consider some alternative principles that might guide the Obama
administration:

• Supporting schools doesn't mean pretending they can solve deeper
social problems such as racism and poverty.

• Equitable resources and opportunities must precede demands for
equal results.

• All children, regardless of race or class, should have the chance
to think deeply about questions that matter, fall in love with books,
understand ideas from the inside out, and learn through projects of
their own design — rather than just practicing skills and memorizing
facts on cue.

• Teaching and learning ought to be assessed based on students'
success with real classroom tasks, not with one-shot,
one-size-fits-all multiple-choice tests.

• Children (and learning) have intrinsic value; they're not just
means to economic ends, such as boosting the "competitiveness" of U.S.
corporations.

• Every student should be encouraged to think critically (not just
obey authority) and to collaborate (not succeed at the expense of
others).

Now that would be school reform worth celebrating.

The full article appeared in the December 18th edition of USA Today as an op-ed.

[MyOwnPeace]

77. Sites

Here's Alfie Kohn's web page site:

http://www.alfiekohn.org/index.html

Here's another one to read about assessments, good and bad:

http://www.fairtest.org/