Did Obama genuinely become a Christian or did he become that way for political purposes?

[cbc5g]

Poll question: Did Obama genuinely become a Christian or did he become that way for political purposes?

In his book The Audacity of Hope, Barack Obama writes:

"I was not raised in a religious household. For my mother, organized religion too often dressed up closed-mindedness in the garb of piety, cruelty and oppression in the cloak of righteousness. However, in her mind, a working knowledge of the world's great religions was a necessary part of any well-rounded education. In our household the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology.

On Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the Chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites.In sum, my mother viewed religion through the eyes of the anthropologist; it was a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well. "


---

Obviously he's not a Muslim, that was a scare tactic used by Republicans. But I'm betting he still holds onto the views of his mother. IMO he's much too intellectual to really believe in the Bible or that some mystery man named Jesus, who is half God, came here to save us by getting killed.

IMO he became Christian when he came to Chicago because it was the only way to advance in politics. Trinity Church provided the backdrop to get his name out there and to get to know powerful figures. Not saying that it's a bad thing, he had to do what he had to do to if he wanted to change things. You can't get ahead in American politics if you aren't Christian. Just wondering what people here think.

[Captain Hilts]

1. I don't know and won't speculate. But MANY pols are religious fakes. nt

[Lex]

2. What's the word "genually" mean?

Something about a knee?

"genual - Of or pertaining to the knee"

New one on me.

[cbc5g]

4. hehe oops i meant genuinely

[Fran Kubelik]

3. what does genually mean?

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

5. nice try

way to undermine Obama

[Jackpine Radical]

6. Whagt does it mean to "genuinely become a Christian?"

For example, is Bishop Spong a Christian? Can one believe in Jesus' messages of love and compassion without believing that he (or He) performed miracles of laves and fishes, walked on water, was resurrected after a crucifixion, etc.?

There are many ways of being a Christian.

Or to put it another way, "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus."

[cbc5g]

7. Believing in your heart the basic tenants of Christianity, like Jesus died for your sins

[Jackpine Radical]

40. That's just one definition.

There are a lot of "modernists" in the various churches--like Spong--who identify themselves as Christians without seeing a necessity for Biblical literalism or supernatural beliefs or any kind of exclusivity or exceptionalism or statement that their tradition is superior to others--merely that it fits their dispositions and culture better than others.

[knitter4democracy]

60. That's what evangelicals would say.

Not all Christians go with the same definition, though. That's why it's best not to judge but instead to let God decide at the Judgement.

[peace13]

8. Don't care about Obama and his religion.

Keep it out of my government. As long as he is good to his word on matters that pertain to the running of this country I am happy.

[el_bryanto]

9. So it's not a bad thing to be a fraud?

Interesting opinion.

That said I don't believe that Obama is a fraud; rather I think he does believe. I doubt his faith is simplistic and he's clearly not a fundamentalist or dominionist, but you can be an admirable person and a Christian.

Bryant

[alarimer]

51. You have to be a fraud to get elected.

Atheists cannot be elected in this stupid fucking country, so it does make sense to join a church for some kind of cover. I don't necessarily think that was the case for Obama but the church he went to in Chicago is where the movers and shakers go, for what it's worth.

[el_bryanto]

69. I do agree that it's a shame that atheists can't get elected. n/t

[atreides1]

10. Don't Know

I consider myself a Christian, but as a Hawaiian I also believe in the Gods and Goddesses of Hawaii as well.

[Critters2]

11. He became UCC. Very different from being a conservative Evangelical.

UCCs respect other faiths, allow for skepticism, are liberal on social issues. He's genuinely a progressive Christian. I heard him speak about his faith at the UCC General Synod. He's genuine in his faith.

[Warpy]

12. Sorry, I flunked mind reading

and whether he bought the whole song and dance is really none of my business.

[camera obscura]

49. But it would be irresponsible NOT to speculate!

[Maru Kitteh]

13. So you find it self-soothing to believe that Obama is a liar - because you wish he would conform

to your view of faith.

How narrow.

[cbc5g]

15. Haha let me know when a skeptic or an atheist can get far in politics

You have to do what you have to do.


Is Obama a fraud if he believes that Gay's should get married but says they shouldn't for political purposes? Because that's what the prevailing view is in America right now? Is Obama a fraud when 4 years ago he said Marijuana should be decriminalized but now says nothing of the sort?


Many of you here have no idea what politics is all about. Its not a cozy little goody goody game.

[Critters2]

28. I've heard him speak about his faith. There's no doubt in my mind it's genuine. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

66. While I don't think Obama is a closet atheist...

I just wanted to say something- it is quite easy to snow christians into believing you are christian. "I've heard him speak about his faith." This is quite an easy thing to fake, it is not like faking calculus.

[Critters2]

67. So, you believe that he took the stage in front of thousands of members of the UCC

talked at great length about how important a factor in his life his faith is, and that he was lying the whole time. And then you voted for him?

That makes you an idiot.

[cbc5g]

68. Um if you haven't noticed, Obama is pretty good at speeches

I voted for him based on the issues and his ability to bring change. If he had to become a Christian to be able to advance in politics to be able to bring change and bring people together, then so be it. People have to do what they have to do. I remember a friend from high school who had a father who asked people in car accidents if they were Christian, and if they answered no he would walk away and not help them. Now, if it were me and I was injured in a car crash and a guy asked if I were a Christian before helping me, i'd probably say YES! even though i'm not. You have to do what you have to do to survive, or in Obama's case, to get ahead in politics.

[Critters2]

70. You accuse the man of lying, and then you vote for him.

Yep, says more about you than him.

[cbc5g]

71. You don't understand politics very much, do you?

Ever heard of "The ends justify the means"?

[Critters2]

73. Ever heard of "integrity"? nt

[cbc5g]

75. Again, whats better

An Obama with perfect integrity except he goes nowhere in politics, or an Obama who does some politically expedient things that may be against what he truly believes, because he wants to bring people together, get elected and bring about change?


I'd say the latter and I'd say the ends justify the means.

[awoke_in_2003]

77. Re-read what I said....

I said I do not believe he is a closet atheist. But, if he were, it really would not be a hard thing to fake. But I would like to add that if he lied about that, I wouldn't blame him and would vote for him anyway. There are polls out there that show that the fine upstanding christians of this country would not vote for an atheist.

on edit: It is really something, being called an idiot by someone who believes in something that cannot be proven.

[Critters2]

79. You believe Obama is not a Christian, in spite of the fact that he says he is.

That's really something, too.


I'm putting you on ignore now.

[awoke_in_2003]

81. Jesus fucking christ...

your reading comprehension is very low. I said I DO NOT BELIEVE HE IS A CLOSET ATHEIST. I never accused him of not being a fucking christian, and I take him at his word. Since I have no way of knowing for sure, I have to assume he is not lying. I then went on to say that if I was wrong and he was faking it, it wouldn't be that hard to pull off. I typed this a little slower this time, so hopefully you caught everything.

[Maru Kitteh]

47. The question you pose is really more about you than it is about Obama.

It's about your desire for affirmation of your belief system. Self-soothing, as I said.

[cbc5g]

52. Yeah and whats your point?

So what if I'm soothed by the fact that I think he's a skeptic at heart?


Obama became a christian to sooth christians into voting for him and to be less fearful of him. Cheers to him for that. Christians won't vote for an atheist. You can't profess skepticism and atheism and become president. Religion is a tool and you have to use that tool to get ahead if you want to change things.

[laconicsax]

14. This poll boils down to two choices:

Is he telling the truth?
Is he a liar on a grandiose scale?

I prefer the former.

Let's presume for a moment that Obama isn't religious and it's all a game. He claims his opposition to marriage equality on religious grounds. He also gave a lengthy speech in 2006 that talked about his love of religion and belief that religious faith is one of the most important things in his life and should be universal. He invited two pastors to give prayers at his inauguration and intends to be sworn in on a Bible.

If that's all a sham, then he is the worst sort of human being.

[Dogmudgeon]

16. Was Obama genuinely born black or did he become that way for political purposes?

Yeah, let's go there -- just like the fine folks over at FR.

:eyes:

--p!

[sakabatou]

17. Cane we have a "Who the Fuck Cares?" category?

[eilen]

59. I'd rec that if i could

where a person feeds from for spiritual fulfillment is private personal business. If we didn't have so many religious bigots in this country, politicians wouldn't have to bring it up.

[polichick]

18. imo there are signs that he uses religion for political purposes...

...joining Trinity when it worked for him and discarding Wright when he became a media hound, and now latching onto this bestselling con man Warren.

My background is in anthropology too and I really appreciate the wide view Obama's mother gave him. But you can be grounded in your spirituality and not the slightest bit religious ~ I hope Barack has that.

[Neshanic]

19. "Is this trip really necessary?" Bugs Bunny. Live by his teachings.

[Ian David]

20. Other: He is controlled by pigeons from The Planet Xenu. n/t

[CreekDog]

21. Jesus is fully man and fully God in Christianity

half man and half God is crude at best and wrong at worst.

and atheists often have Christian children. ahem. :eyes:

[GodlessBiker]

22. What. The whole Jewish carpenter thing? Does anyone "genuinely" believe that?

[H2O Man]

23. clown

[Donnachaidh]

24. a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well.

That's fine with me. If he shows EQUAL respect to all religions, just WTF is your point? Sounds like his mother was trying to teach him that variety IS part of the human experience. GOOD FOR HER.

[rucky]

25. A if you trust him, B if you don't.

This poll is less about him and more about us.

[cbc5g]

30. Tell me, whats better

A "fraud" that is able to become president and change things for the better, or a "non-fraud" that can't get anywhere in politics and can't change anything? So what if he does things for political purposes, how else could anyone get anything done?

[rucky]

34. It depends on what you value more...

truthfulness or effectiveness

I'd like to think they're not mutually exclusive.

[cbc5g]

26. Obama studies Lincoln, who was an atheist, a lot ...

My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.
-- Abraham Lincoln



It's actually surprising that Lincoln was able to win the presidency with those views.

[onenote]

39. Lincoln almost certainly was not an atheist

He close associates and friends expressed the view that he rejected orthodox Christian views -- for example, he did not believe in the divinity of jesus. But there is a world of difference between not being a "Christian" and being an "atheist." All indications are that he was a "religous" person in the sense that he believed in the existence of some form of divine providence.

[Winterblues]

27. Do you think his wife and daughters have any bearing on his beliefs?

I think he married a Christian woman and has chosen to follow her in her beliefs..

[mrreowwr_kittty]

29. OT but I wish I'd had a mom like Obama's. nt

[Critters2]

31. I did. Which is why, like Obama, I'm UCC. nt

[Sanctified]

42. My father was like that, had me study all religions and exposed me

to different beliefs since I was a young child. He is a spiritual man but does not believe in the God of the Bible and was quite upset when I converted to Christianity in my 30's.

[TEmperorHasNoClothes]

32. I WISH he was only a christian for political purposes

but fear than he is a real one :(.

[AtomicKitten]

33. There is no way anyone can know that except Obama.

[Critters2]

36. One can believe what he says. He says he's a Christian. That's the only way to know. nt

[AtomicKitten]

50. That is a reasonable conclusion. nt

[K Gardner]

35. If that's all you took away from reading that book, it's very sad.

[Naturyl]

37. I think he did what he had to do.

It could be genuine, but I'd be incredibly naive to think that political pressure didn't help.

[Sanctified]

38. "IMO he's much too intellectual to really believe in the Bible", LOL, your joking right?

Because only stupid people read and study 2000+ year old writings.

[4 t 4]

41. IMHO I don't care what someone's religion is

it should be a rather private matter instead of what it has become today. More like a circus side show for many.

[onenote]

43. exactly. that guy King -- he was a real moron wasn't he.

[Sanctified]

44. My subject line was quoting the OP, I read and study those 2000+ year old writings.

Sorry after re-reading what I quoted and wrote it looks like I was making fun of people who read the Bible, when I was trying to make a point that people who can actually read and grasp the Bible are quite smart.

[cbc5g]

45. Some things are important historically in the Bible

But it's my opinion that if you really believe in stories like Adam and Eve etc, you really are an idiot.

[Sanctified]

53. I would disagree, the story of creation in the Bible is very broad

and not all that detailed however there are some scientific theories that can come into parallel with the early creation story such as Mitochodrial Eve and the Big Bang Theory. In all honesty a being like God explaining how he did something to beings like us would probably be very simplistic like in the Bible, a "I did it so STFU" story.

[TEmperorHasNoClothes]

56. you missed the point about intellectual

there's a difference between being an intellectual and being smart. Obama has an intellectual curiousity that would question the logistics of what christian bibles proclaim as truth. Nobody said only dumb people believe in christianity.
There's no proof that bibles are actual 2000 year old writings, or that the fables told are historically accurate. People who are intellectual thinkers want to know the who what when where why and hows of the details. People can be smart without having an intellectual curiosity.

[knitter4democracy]

61. I know many Christians who are intellectually curious.

Just because many here who are aren't Christians doesn't mean we don't exist.

[Sanctified]

62. "There's no proof that bibles are actual 2000 year old writings", you are joking right? n/t

[dems_rightnow]

46. Hmmmmm

Obama- "I'm a Christian"

Guy on the Internet- "He's not a Christian"

There's just so much powerful evidence both ways that I couldn't begin to guess.

[Critters2]

80. lol! nt

[camera obscura]

48. I am a Christian and I have had liberal friends accuse me of faking it

because they think no one rational could be religious.

Newsflash... faith is PERSONAL. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's any less strong for us.

[MineralMan]

54. Shrug...

[Evoman]

55. I'm more concerned with what he does then what he is.

As long as he keeps religion out of politics, who the hell cares.

Of course, if he actually believed in the stories of the bible...i.e. talking snakes, creationism, noah and the ark, etc...then it would drastically reduce my opinion of him.

[opihimoimoi]

57. We might ask the same question of them PUBs...Georgie boy sure don't act Christian

[NightWatcher]

58. Other: No one knows the makeup of another man's soul

[booley]

63. Why can't he be both?

The quote does NOT seem to suggest that Obama does not beleive in a Higher power. He is saying he was brought tup to be cynical of ORGANIZED religion. An Atheist would seem to be more inclined to go t a Shinto Shrine as they would a church since they would see both religions as delusional.

I know the right likes to define Christianity in a very narrow way so no one is a Christian but them, but that hardly means we have to accept that.

[bertman]

64. You left out Answer #3: How the hell would I know?

[Orsino]

65. As with many o most Americans, his faith may be partly or all for show. n/t

[uppityperson]

72. He is as much of a Christian as I am, feel we both folow the teachings of Jesus

Emulate what a good person did, how a good person was, what a good person said, whether or not that good person actually existed it beside the point. It depends on your definition of "Christian".

[WI_DEM]

74. I take him at his word that he is a genuine Christian.

[Undercurrent]

76. Religion is very personal -- like sex.

What we do is public, what we feel or think is private. I can't, and wont try to read another person's mind or heart. None of my business.

[SoCalDem]

78. I'm guessing realistic pragmatic politician

and it's a great place to find women..women tend to be more church-going, and a young guy is a churchgoer, he gets "extra credit" in their book..

And the one thing people did not realize is that even though he was a "member", it did not mean that he was there EVERY Sunday...think about it.. he lived in Chicago, but his work was in Springfield..so he comes home on the weekend to his wife & two babies, and then spends time in church..every sunday?? not likely..occasionally, to tough base with the constituents-maybe..but not every week..

Pols these days HAVE to "appear religious", so of course they "belong" to a church, and show up often enough to be recognized , but I bet many are NOT the religious types they pretend to be...and that's fine by me.. I don;t WANT to know their religion...or what kind of underwear they wear..or what they eat...or how much they can bench-press.. I want to know they are capable of doing the JOB we hired them to do, and that they are SMART..

They can pray to a toad, wearing a purple hat, for all I care..

[ecstatic]

82. He's a spiritual christian, not a religious zealot

who interprets the Bible literally.

[WVRICK13]

83. Who Gives A Rats Ass?