Ambulancemen ‘decided dying man not worth saving’

[Incitatus]

Two ambulancemen have been arrested by police after they were heard allegedly discussing whether they should bother to resuscitate a disabled man who had collapsed at home and subsequently died.

Barry Baker, 59, who lived alone, had dialled 999 saying that he thought he was having a heart attack. An ambulance was sent to his house while a controller kept him talking on the line.

By the time the ambulancemen arrived at the house in Patcham, Brighton, Mr Baker had collapsed, but the telephone line was still open and was being recorded.

It is alleged that staff in the control centre heard the two medics making disparaging comments about the state of the house.

A police source, who asked not to be named, said that the ambulancemen were then heard discussing Mr Baker and saying “words to the effect that he was not worth saving”....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article5420921.ece

[flvegan]

1. Damn. They suck.

[Quantess]

2. And he died, too. Those paramedics are in trouble.

Britons spell dialed dialled. I never noticed.

[tblue37]

26. The preference for the single-"l" spelling for many such words--

like traveled, shoveled, etc.--is actually relatively recent in America, too. By recent, I mean just a few decades old. When I was a girl, we wrote "travelled."

[NJmaverick]

3. Didn't George Bush just pass a law to make that sort of thing legal?

The law that states you can refuse to give care, if it offends you?

[Cronus Protagonist]

13. They don't pay much attention to US laws in Britain

Sometimes I wish they would, and sometimes not.

[elehhhhna]

20. yep. dirty house? you're denied! we're screwn.

[Warpy]

4. Trying to code an unwitnessed cardiac arrest

is an exercise in futility, especially outside the hospital. Few survive to the hospital and the ones that do often have extensive brain damage.

Protocol said they should have confirmed time of collapse with the 911/999 operator if one was still on the line. Yes, they should have checked.

However, Mr. Baker was gone when they got there. Heroics are extremely unlikely to have affected the outcome.

Real life isn't like it is on ER, folks.

[Eric J in MN]

5. What a creepy story. NT

NT

[baldguy]

6. I'm always suspicious about stories regarding failures of the UK or Canadian health services.

All the more reason not to get national health care here, right?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

8. I suspect that the EMT services there are not much different than here....

....and there are certainly a fair amount of stories about failures of 911 and EMT services in this country as well.

[BooScout]

23. Ummmmm......do ya think they made it up?

It happened. Ambulance services over here can be notoriously crappy in some areas and overstretched in many others. Hell, people have ambulances to take them to Doctor's appointments.

[1776Forever]

7. This happens a lot in ER's in the U.S. - Overheard by myself and son

Since I have had to take my son, who has progressive MS, to the ER so many times in the past 4 years I and my son have heard this kind of talk many times by nurses and Dr's. If there is no one with the patient to "fight" for them it is often the luck of the draw on who comes in to take care of the patient as to whether or not they are given the best treatment. Of course, this is in regard to their insurance level also. So much for the Hippocratic oath for some - I will say there are others who do all they can for those who need their care though.

[K Gardner]

9. I have never ever in 25 years of ER work heard a Dr and a nurse discussing

what level of treatment to give a pt based on his INSURANCE. Never. We usually don't know and most certainly do not care. Now, if MDs/RNs have made disparaging remarks that you have overheard, you need to report that to the hospital administration in detail. I've seen RNs fired for such behavior and MDs disciplined. But unless the family specifically requests that "less than heroic measures" be taken, I have never ever seen people 'left to chance' as you are describing. I am wondering if you are interpreting the personality of a doctor or nurse as 'indifference', or if, in a truly busy ER, you simply feel lost.

Whatever the case, I am truly sorry you've experienced what you have and that you have to deal with such a debilitating disease in a child. If you don't have a strong advocate, ERs can surely be an intimidating and overwhelming place to be. If you'd ever like to just vent, please drop me a line. Not sure what I could do, but I'd be happy to try to help.

[1776Forever]

12. Well in the 80's I was a patient in an Ohio hospital on welfare because my husband was disabled

and we had 5 sons under 12 at the time and I was chronically ill and had to have 2 operations in 2 weeks and I was told right to my face that because I was on Medicaid they weren't able to give me certain procedures and I had to suck it up and deal with it. At least they told me to my face but it didn't hurt any less. I made it through but I wonder what could have been done then that wasn't.

Oh, and if you don't have a recorder with you and you are afraid your loved one will be affected by your speaking up and then you didn't see who was talking anyway and just over heard it then that doesn't do much good to speak up.

[Mnemosyne]

29. I've been walking on a broken ankle since 2002. I was told by ortho that

since bone (fibula) was non-weight bearing Medicaid would not pay to repair. My tibia was broken into the tarsus (ankle joint), fibula break, non-joined, is the "non-weight" bearing bone that they won't authorize to be fixed.

My Achilles's tendon is torn and tearing. I cannot work regularly anymore.

Great call assholes.

I hear you, 1776. :hug:

[Obamanaut]

14. When the EMTs got to my wife on the road where she had been

thrown from her motor scooter, the one who got to us first was as solicitous of my well being as she was of my wife. She gently asked me to mover over, and then she told me everything she was doing and why she was doing it.

Neither the local EMTs nor the life-flight helo crew mentioned insurance, and when we got to the hospital, the ER and the ICU team didn't mention it either. The first time was in the admissions office on the second day following the accident. A rep from the admissions office came to the ICU waiting room and told me and my daughters to see her when we felt up to it, patted me on my shoulder, and left.

[Hannah Bell]

22. i have. not in er, but in hospital itself. many, many times. it is routine.

[Hannah Bell]

21. i had a relative with cerebral palsy. same story. there are plenty of

shitheads in the medical field.

[Liberal_in_LA]

10. Awful... I wonder how many other people have died needlessly under the care of these 2 murderers

[exman]

11. Oh Yeah?

I was found Dead at the scene THREE times!, and woke up later in the hospital. No shit, these guys can't always tell. I had NO vital signs(according to the EMT). Maybe they should transfer to the local police department if that's their attitude.:grr:

[Cronus Protagonist]

15. I suspect you have at least one more death coming to you

:)

[Mnemosyne]

30. Here kitty, kitty!

Seriously, be careful man! :hug:

[Robb]

16. Cops, soldiers, and EMTs

...have their own sense of humor.

I was talking about this last night with Mrs. Robb. We had dinner with a friend and her hubby, who was a PJ (USAF pararescue). He told a couple of incredible rescue under fire stories, and told them well. On the drive back, we were discussing what made them good stories was that he took out the military sense of humor, which can be difficult to take if you're not in it.

To explain: cops, soldiers and EMTs often tell one another awful, awful stories of things they've seen. Sometimes those stories are funny to other cops, soldiers and EMTs. I recall, back when I was in the news biz, cops and EMTs talking about a call where they saw a man carrying his severed hand in his other hand. One of them said something about "holding his own hand" and there were fits of chuckling.

Chuckling, although it was awful. Possibly because it was awful.

These people, in their work, have to be able to function in horrible situations. They do that by putting aside the horror, being able to ignore it. What I've noticed happens in their sense of humor is that same horror-ignoring reflex shows up in a joke that turns everyone else's stomach, but sends compatriots into laughter.

A long way of saying it: the "ambulancemen" might've been kidding around. Inappropriate. But common.

[Hannah Bell]

24. the info in the story describes the medics as commenting on the state of

the residence & saying the patient wasn't worth saving.

you call it a joke, i call it worse than "inappropriate"

[Robb]

31. If you read carefully, I'm not defending them

just explaining it.

[blonndee]

17. A newsworthy occurence in the UK, de facto policy in the U.S.

What's the big deal? :sarcasm:

(Disclaimer: I DON'T mean among EMTs or docs; I mean healthcare policy in general.)

[XanaDUer]

18. Did you see the related story of the prick who wouldn't help a woman

because he was on his tea break/

Jeez-I see that ignorant cruelty is all over the world. Disgusting.

[HEyHEY]

19. My friend once pulled a man from a flipped over truck after

The parameds wouldn't because "He's covered in blood". Obviously that's not meant to broadstroke all parameds, just one story.

[Miss Chybil]

25. Man Too Sick to Clean House Sentenced to Death

A much more appropriate headline, I think.

[pacalo]

28. Most certainly.

:grr:

[Naturyl]

27. Social Darwinism in action. (n/t)