Should we start taxing gas by the mile?

[riverdeep]

Witness these two news stories:

"The dilemma for Congress is that highway and transit programs are dependent for revenue on fuel taxes that are not sustainable. Many Americans are driving less and switching to more fuel-efficient cars and trucks, and a shift to new fuels and technologies like plug-in hybrid electric cars will further erode gasoline sales."

(Motorists' habits spur call for tax increases)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090102/ap_on_go_ot/gas_tax

"But over the long term, commission members say, the nation should consider taxing mileage rather than gasoline as drivers use more fuel-efficient and electric vehicles.

As cars burn less fuel, "the gas tax isn't going to fill the bill," said Rep. Peter DeFazio of Oregon, a member of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee."

(Oregon looks at taxing mileage instead of gasoline)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090102/ap_on_re_us/mileage_tax

What's that saying, you can't get blood from a stone? The only thing that's saving a lot of us from going completely under right now, is that the price of gas isn't astronomical. Soon, a lot of us won't have any job to drive to, so the point is kind of moot.

[thunder rising]

1. That's funny. Now you have to declare your milage?

[sam sarrha]

7. no. GPS in your car, arches over roads take readings, get a bill in the mail. its already developed

the ReThugs have been planning this for years. hardware/software already exists

[Kutjara]

11. Yep, and the equipment is tailor-made for other kinds of surveillance as well.

Soon, our masters will know everything we do. They won't even need police or jails: just use GPS and cameras to catch you in the "act" of speeding or jaywalking, and then automatically lock the doors of your house until you've served your sentence. Lesser penalties can just be direct debited from your bank. Remote control fascism is only a mouse-click away.

[riverdeep]

35. For evey cat, there is a mouse.

Mobile GPS and cell phone jammer with a extremely long jamming range of up to 10 meters. If you are sick of all those phones going off, or being tracked everywhere with GPS, this is the anti-spy gadget you have been looking for. This jammer system comes with a built in rechargeable Li-ion battery for hours of signal jamming, and with the included car power adapter, recharge and use this in your car as well as the office. Incredible easy to operate, just switch it on and it will immediately start blocking any GPS tracking device signals will keep noise and other disturbances away.

http://www.chinavasion.com/product_info.php/pName/portable-gps-mobile-phone-jammer-10-meter-range/

edit: a mouse with a bad attitude

[MercutioATC]

13. Oh, great. Track every place I drive...

No thanks.

[yodoobo]

14. nothing a little tinfoil on the antenna can't fix.

(and Im serious tinfoil on the antenna, not the hat :) )

I'm amazed by how many things are proposed to be solved by GPS, by people who forget that GPS signals are easy as pie to block.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. From what I hear, they are blaming us liberals for this

[Posteritatis]

26. But it's good when used for a "liberal" cause, right? (nt)

[thunder rising]

28. The technology is shit ... the implications are really bad.

[Statistical]

2. Worst (well maybe not worst but really bad) idea ever

1) Imagine how complicated such a system is
2) Everyone who drives say 12,000 miles would pay the same amount in taxes. Prius or a Hummer? Same taxes.

If anything such a system would make people say f**k it. I am going to be taxed anyways let me get this .

Sometimes I honestly think politicians don't think. Really they just spout out the first idea that pops into their head.

[Salviati]

5. No kidding...

If this really is the problem, then they should just raise the gas tax. Make it scale according to the average MPG of all the cars sold in the last 5 years or something. A much simpler solution that actually promotes getting a more fuel efficient car.

[zorahopkins]

3. Easier Solution

Here is a much easier solution -- Toll Roads.

Make every road a toll road, and make the tolls variable, depending on the energy efficiency of the vehicles.

You uuanna drive on a road? You gotta pay to do it.

Note: In protest of the continuing occupation of OUR Uuhite House by the illegal and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies, I REFUSE to use the letter betuueen "V" and "X". Instead, I use a "double u", as in "Uuhite House".

[tritsofme]

23. You really type like that all the time?

That might just be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[RoyGBiv]

4. This is an idotic idea ...

It was idiotic when whoever it was first started trotting it out. It's one more asinine regressive tax to replace an already regressive tax with an even more bureaucratic version.

Not just no, but hell no.

[Haole Girl]

6. Agreed. nt

[w4rma]

8. stupid idea. (nt)

[yodoobo]

9. Would save SUV drivers alot of money

I don't understand this urge to shoot ourselves in the foot by raising gas taxes.

6 months ago, most everyone was bitching because Bush failed to reign in out of control gas prices because it was killing the working poor.


Now that gas it low, everyone seems to miss the pain the Bush unleashed on us.

[1]

10. and, dollars to donuts, you know this wouldn't be a replacement tax...

it would be in addition to the gasoline tax. the words "rather than" would disappear pretty quick...

[Muttocracy]

12. so poor people who can't afford the housing in a city and commute from further

will be taxed more too? :(

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

25. This idea would be terrible in where I live.

Maine is riddled with lots of rural communities and only a few small cities. There is pretty much no public transportation. Most people have to drive probably 30 minutes to get to work unless they are lucky enough to find decent employment in the town they live in.

[Muttocracy]

29. even for the small city where I work, to buy a house...

...I've tried looking at houses rather than renting, but the houses I can afford are 15-30 miles away. I decided to rent another apt on the busline instead :(

[gratuitous]

15. Answer: No

This has been another edition of short answers to obvious questions.

The per-gallon system of gasoline taxes rewards fuel efficient cars and penalizes gashogs as it is. If the revenues are going down, raise the taxes on a gallon. Right now the federal gasoline tax is at 18.4 cents per gallon, and hasn't been raised in 12 years.

[carlyhippy]

17. self-delete

[Bjorn Against]

16. Horrible idea, we want people to be using less gas.

With all the problems we are having as a result of our dependence on oil why would we want to discourage fuel efficiency? Thankfully Bush is leaving office finally, because I could see him pushing something like this. Now Steven Chu will be the next energy secretary, and there is no way he would support something like this.

[BeFree]

19. Two things

Heavier vehicles require heavier, more expensive roads and bridges.
If trucks were lighter the cost to build roads and bridges would go way down.

Cars are lightweight. If all there was on the road were cars, the cost for bridges, etc. would be much lower. We subsidize heavy trucking.

And....

The reason the government never got behind fuel efficient vehicles is shown in the OP.
Gummitt just wants money coming in so they can keep porky-pigging the people.

[lib2DaBone]

20. There is no accounting as to where the money goes.....

We just gave them $700 Billion and they can't (won't) tell you where it went? And you want to give them more?
--------------------------------------

Here's another....

Pentagon "misplaces" $2.3 trillion

"According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions."
(Donald Rumsfeld, quoted on CBS News, 29/1/02)

Rumsfeld admitted that the Pentagon misplaced $2.3 trillion. This money has disappeared – nobody knows where it's gone. Government officials have blamed the accounting systems – the US Department of Defense has failed to produce independently audited accounts since 1995.

[riverdeep]

32. If I walk out of a Best Buy with a pack of batteries I didn't pay for,

I'm getting arrested. Arrested and probably in prison for $3.99. These guys rip off to the tune of billions and trillions and they're walking around free and rich, without a care in the world.

[Old Codger]

21. Really

The wanted everyone to cut their driving and use less gas, now they are not getting enough money so they are going to make it cost as much no matter how frugal you may be. Oregon did a trial on that but if it isn't nation wide then everyone who lives in Oregon will be paying more than the people who drive through on I-5, and believe me that is a lot of traffic. If they just raise per gallon tax at least all users pay. Toll roads would be a fairer answer.

[Thor_MN]

22. How about ENFORCING existing weight limits?

By far the most damaging traffic to roads are overloaded trucks. Make the fine for exceeding weight limits appropriate to the cost of repair from the damage done to the roads.

[The Gunslinger]

24. Hell no!!

No government GPS monitoring. That is all it would be. The gas tax is fine how it is. I would rather see it raised a little then be monitored by the government.

[dweller]

27. what fresh hell is this?

and not just no, but hell no!

why not raise the taxes on the corporations that are raking it in hand over fist in the oil/gas production? Didn't they just report (again) record profits?

Take the tax out on the ones that provide the source for our addiction. We cut back, and now the hiways are in need of more funds? Ummm... we cut back. We don't need the hiways as often. But they do, where else are the vehicles going to travel to use their fuel?

Let the corporations feed themselves for a change.
dp

[frylock]

30. perfect solution for the poor guy who drives 100 miles a day to hang drywall for $15 an hour..

fuck. that. shit.

[OhioChick]

31. Hell no....

I take one of my kids who is chronically ill out of state for medical treatment near monthly. The cost of gas, as well as the wear and tear on my car is enough (not to mention that my health care doesn't cover these visits).....let alone being taxed even further by the mile.

[riverdeep]

33. On first glance it would seem if people are driving less,

than the roads wouldn't need as much repair, hence no need to raise taxes of any kind. But I'm guessing the bulk of the damage is caused by trucking and heavy vehicles that keep on rolling no matter the price of gas.

[Waiting For Everyman]

34. Sure, let's tax air and water too. How about taxing breathing while we're at it?

The poor are just wasting all that extra cash they have lying around anyway. It isn't as if they need to get to jobs too, or go anywhere like REAL people do, who don't mind paying more BECAUSE THEY CAN.

Let's just put the other jackboot on peoples' necks, and make real sure they can never get up. After all, that's why we call this the "land of opportunity"... just to add insult to injury.

Agree with you, riverdeep. It seems that any tax is ok, as long as it's on necessities which hit the poor hardest.

[riverdeep]

36. If you drive a car,

I'll tax the street.
If you drive to city,
I'll tax your seat.
If you get too cold,
I'll tax the heat.
If you take a walk,
I'll tax your feet.

[Waiting For Everyman]

38. That's exactly what I was thinking of too!

:rofl: The more things change...

[TheFarseer]

37. no, very stupid

that offers no incentive to have a fuel efficient car. I think the system we have now is the best I've ever heard. If they want to raise the tax rate, I really don't have a problem with that. The other point to consider is, this is all a shell game. The money from the gas tax just goes into a general fund anyway, right?

[donheld]

39. So a Prius driver could wind up paying more than a Hummer driver

That's plumb nuts.