Shred your credit cards

[alfredo]

Do it, you will be happier if you do.

fuck em, the credit card companies are asshole.


Stop shopping at places that don't trust you to write a check. Fuck em.

[ORDagnabbit]

1. better yet just stop paying them. unsecured debt + money out of thin air = not much they can do

about it.

[seabeyond]

12. that is theft. n/t

[norepubsin08]

38. It's only theft if they can prove that is what you intended to do

and then it is actually considered fraud not theft...fraud usually has a lower criminal penatly attatched to it since it is more of a white collar crime

[seabeyond]

44. i am not talking letter of the law. if a person takes a product from store with intent

to not pay, that is stealing. for any poster on du to advocate theft, especially with moral posturing and no remorse is lacking.

[norepubsin08]

47. ok I was looking at it legally

I went to law school and that always kicks in

[seabeyond]

50. lol, of course it does.

whereas letter of the law means little to me. i more run my life on a conscious scale. generally it jives with the law, but sometimes it doesnt. i will be as likely to argue a law as to embrace a law. but has worked for me over 47 yrs.

[backscatter712]

53. and stealing from those usurious bastards is bad for what reason? n/t

[seabeyond]

56. stealing has nothing to do with the bastards, everything to do with the person that steals

further, the person that steals hurts all of us that are not stealing. they are pieces of shit..... cause of their lack of morality. even lower than the bastards

[ZombieHorde]

68. There is nothing innately wrong with stealing. Context is important.

[seabeyond]

70. bullshit. that is about as stupid as it gets. taking something that isnt yours

is "innately" wrong.

geeeesh

that is what i have found to be so special about du. the ease of lack of character or integrity by so many.

[ZombieHorde]

71. Hypothetical situations.

-A crazy man has a bomb planted at the local mall. You have an excellent opportunity to steal the detonator. Do take something that isn't yours?

-You find heroin in your 16 year old's pants pocket. Do you take something that isn't yours?

-You're two dollars shy for the newest 'straight to DVD' zombie flick. Do you take something that isn't yours?

the ease of lack of character or integrity by so many

Bwahahaha!

edit to ask: is it pants pocket or pant's pocket?

[seabeyond]

94. you came up with extreme or exception. story told. does not make that theft

not "innately" wrong as you made in your statement.

theft is wrong

and people trying to justify receiving goods, promising to pay, and then not, is wrong. it hurts all of us, for their own personal gratification. theft. stealing. hence my post addressing NOT paying their credit card charges. it is morally corrupt.

[ZombieHorde]

98. theft is(sometimes) wrong

and people trying to justify receiving goods, promising to pay, and then not, is wrong. it hurts all of us, for their own personal gratification. theft. stealing. hence my post addressing NOT paying their credit card charges. it is morally corrupt.

I agree that these are good examples of unethical stealing.

I also believe that my examples (or at least two of them) are good examples of ethical stealing.

There is neutral stealing as well, such as accidental stealing.

[seabeyond]

99. you are arguing bullshit........ n/t

[ZombieHorde]

101. I believe that my arguement is dead on.

I believe there are times when stealing is highly ethical, such as stealing a crazy, violent person's weapon.

[pl259]

81. That has to be one of the most idiotic fucking statements I have ever read here at DU or anyplace

else.

[ZombieHorde]

87. How do you feel about my three hypothetical situations?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4757555&mesg_id=4760577

Bwahahaha!

[SoCalDem]

17. except for turning you over to collectors who will hound you to the ends of the earth

and to ruin what's left of your credit rating. If you cannot pay them and plan not to, please see a BK lawyer and protect yourself.. When my friend filed 5 years ago, she said the best thing was that they were not allowed to call her and had to stop dunning her for payment as soon as the case was filed..

If you just refuse to pay, the account always remains "collectible" and will be sold many times over...

[fed_up_mother]

32. I'm cancelling most of my cards and going to a debit card

Just about every place I go takes a debit card, anyway.

[dansolo]

35. Just pay it off at the end of the month.

I don't like using something directly linked to my checking account for purchases. I pay off my credit card bills every month, so for me, it is the same as using a debit card. I've never had the need, but I like knowing that I have some reserve credit available at a moments notice if I ever were in a situation where I needed it.

[alfredo]

41. I have one CC. Only use it in emergencies. Never carried over a balance,

and hopefully never will. I don't buy what I can't afford. I even paid cash for my car. Had a mortgage but hated it. I cashed in my investments and paid off the mortgage. The interest rate was higher than the return rate on my investments. bush was just selected and I had no faith in his ability to guide our economy so that added another reason to cash out.

[Dreamer Tatum]

39. Except ruin your credit and hassle you forever

Creditors' options get pretty damn tangible if you don't pay them back.

Not to mention the matter of theft (you from them).

[Statistical]

40. Yeah. Sure.

Try it. See how quickly your life turns into a living hell.

If you owe say $10,000 on CC and "walk away" by the time they are done with the default interest rate, 12x missed payment penalties each year, 12x over limit penalties each year, collection costs, court costs, judgements, etc you will be "luck" you only owe the $30,000-$35,000.

You can't even get away from it in bankruptcy anymore thanks to the "good" work Joe "Mastercard" Bidden did on Bankruptcy "reform".

Then there is the whole credit rating issue. You quickly will have a rating in the mid 500 and eventually you will pay them back unless:
* you never need credit to buy a car
* you never need credit to buy a house
* you don't mind paying an extra triple security deposit when you rent
* you never need credit to pay for you children's education
* you never want to land a nice paying job that requires good credt

Pay down your debt. Stop using them. Live below your means. Put 3x months of money into savings for emergency fund. Save/invest 20% of your takehome pay. The amount of daily stress it takes away is substantial.

[agincourt]

75. I filed chapter 7 this year and it was discharged,

you can still file for bankruptcy on credit cards. The problem is that filing is expensive too and if you've had a cash advance over 750.00, you have to wait 6 months to got to bankruptcy court. You can still get a lawyer on retainer to help avoid wage garnishments though. Chapter 7 is a tough, it takes years to rebuild your rating, but is better than being homeless from wage garnishments from predatory lenders.

[Balbus]

55. You still have time to get your G.E.D.

[MajorChode]

64. There's not much they have to do...

...other than destroy your credit rating which they can do effortlessly. Those debts will follow you around for the rest of your life and make it much more difficult to ever receive credit for anything. So 10-20 years from now if you want to buy a home or a car, or finance a business, or do anything that requires credit, that debt will still be there. Furthermore in the mean time you will pay more for certain types of insurance, and if you change jobs or try to rent a dwelling or even go out on a date, your history is going to follow you there too.

And lets say 5-10 years later you decide, gee that wasn't such a smart thing to do, I guess I better pay that off because I'm getting screwed every time I turn around (or not getting screwed when you want to be). The highest interest rate and penalty fees will combine to effectively insure you pay loan shark rates.

[Sultana]

2. .

Alhamdulillah, I've never owned any. :)

I have a check card and it works well for me.

[backscatter712]

3. Paid mine off - I owe the fucks nothing.

No credit cards for me, thank you!

[MercutioATC]

21. Congrats! I'll be there by March.

My only debt will be my mortgage and a loan I have against my 401k (and I'm paying myself interest on that one).

I can't wait!

[shanti]

89. me too

paid off the two i had completely last month. my car will be paid off in may. then i will only owe my mortgage, which is reasonable. it's a great feeling!

congrats!

[physioex]

4. Hmmmm....

I have given this some thought. Credit Card companies are pure evil. However there are people like myself who pay their balances on time and carry no debt. If you are a disciplined person and can pay your balance in full every month then I suggest that you indeed use a credit card. There are several wonderful rewards that one can take advantage of such as cash back rewards.

I remeber watching the movie Maxed Out and there was this comedian who said that if you are rich the banks keep throwing money at you and if you are poor then you are the one being taken advantage.

Edit: If you havent already watch Maxed Out and In Debt We Trust on Google Video.

[Contrary1]

5. We do ok with our credit card...

We use it for gas, groceries, online purchases, prescriptions...whatever. We don't spend any more than we would otherwise, and pay it off every month.

The upside is that they send us grocery dollars four times a year. It usually ends up totaling somewhere between $200-$250. We don't vacation, so this works well for us.

In the credit company's view, we are "deadbeats". They don't make a cent off us.

[physioex]

6. Ive been saying this all along......

You can choose to leave the system or stay and fight. I think they are just evil the way they take advantage of the poor, bring misery in peoples lives, and I am going to take advantage of them every way I can.

[CreekDog]

8. credit union credit cards are a bit different i think

mine doesn't do any of these things to take advantage.

they deduct your minimum payment from your account so you are never late and never pay late fees.

the interest rate is low as credit cards go.

my credit limit is 7500 which is okay for my income. i could afford it if i ran it up that high (i don't even carry a balance except maybe 100-300 once in a great while).

[physioex]

10. I am not against Credit Unions....

And I do indeed agree with what you are saying in your posts. As a matter of fact it would be better if we got rid of all the corporate banks and had more Credit Unions.

As I mentioned in my post check out the movies on google video.

[pokercat999]

27. We travel a lot for business and our AMX bill usually runs over

$100K per year. We get lots of benefits from their "points" program and the card is paid in full every month. AMX doesn't consider us DEADBEATS becuase the CHARGE card was designed to be used as we are using it.

[Kber]

34. They do make money off you, second hand.

They charge every vendor you pay with a credit card a 3-5% "processing fee" every time you use the card.

That's why they are willing to send you the rewards every quarter to keep you using their card rather than a competitors or your debit card.

[AndyTiedye]

59. The Bigger the Merchant, the Smaller the Fee

I try to pay cash to the small mom&pop stores, but let the oil companies eat plastic!

and yes, I pay 'em off every month.

[dansolo]

36. They make money from the seller

They get a small amount from every single transaction. You use the card, so they do get a small amount.

[whopis01]

37. They make plenty of money off of you

Everytime you make a purchase with your card a percentage goes to the credit card company. You are getting some of that back in the form of 'grocery dollars', but I guarantee you that they are still making money off of you.

[mymessageboardid]

102. You are WRONG

"In the credit company's view, we are "deadbeats". They don't make a cent off us."

That is a BIG misconception with everyone who says that. The banking industry charges .30 per transaction and anywhere from 2.2 to 4.5% on EVERY credit card transaction to the business who processes that sale. Maybe you take the family out for ice cream at Baskin Robbins and charge that $15.00 tab. On average the banks just made 90 cents on that sale, and the business made 90 cents less. That was the whole reason behind "check/debit" cards, the whole "same as cash" meme. Yes, for consumers it's same as cash. For the local business it's a killer.

[CreekDog]

7. Why? I'm not against credit cards.

I almost never carry a balance and I can avoid carrying cash.

I don't understand this line of thinking.

Some protest here is not going to make credit cards or their companies go away.

Besides, I have a credit union VISA, the interest rate is 8.9% and has been for quite a while, though it's going up shortly. My credit union isn't evil, they didn't give me a massive credit line that I couldn't handle.

I just don't see how canceling that one credit card does anybody any good.

[MADem]

9. I did that years ago. I'm happier, too.

You can use a bank VISA or MASTERCARD debit/check card with no issues anywhere. Or that green stuff with the pics of the Dead Presidents on them...

[AndyTiedye]

19. Debit Cards Won't Work for Renting a Car

[Donnachaidh]

22. Not true -- It will if you have a high enough balance on them.

Generally, it's a week's worth of rental charges they check for.

Yes - I asked about it.

[liberalpress]

29. I rented with a debit card

And you're right. They placed a hold on my card for $250 and removed it whn I returned the car.

[MADem]

30. If you have a family member in the industry, they do. And if you have enough money in the bank to

pay cash for the car, they do, as well.

I am able to rent a car with my debit card--and no, it has no "credit" associated with it.

[mike_c]

48. I rent cars regularly using my debit card....

I have been turned down on occasion by one or another rental agency, but now I just ask over the phone first and choose the ones that say "Sure!" I don't have any difficulty renting cars using my debit card-- I should qualify this by saying that the last time I rented a car was a couple of years ago, so maybe the situation has changed?

[backscatter712]

54. I've rented with a debit card too.

Generally, they warn you first that they'll put a rather large hold on the card (like a couple hundred bucks) as a deposit. You'll get it back (minus the usual rental costs) once you turn the car back in.

[lildreamer316]

66. ? I use mine all the time - I'm renting a car right now!! n/t

[Cleita]

11. Trouble is when you have an emergency you need them.

I say just keep a low balance on them and pay them off every month so when you really need a quick cash advance for an unexpected expense, you have it. Both my husband's and one of my cat's lives were saved because I could access quick cash for emergency medical care that I didn't have available in the bank.

[physioex]

14. My theory is....

(And this isn't about you necessarily.) That is how most people end up in trouble. And as much as hate that jerk Dave Ramsey he is right about having a savings of say four months of living expenses that you keep locked and is to be used only in cases of emergency.

[Cleita]

16. I have savings but it's part of my retirement and costs me if I take too

much in distribution tax wise, so floating an emergency loan on credit works better for me. But a lot of people don't earn enough to have decent savings and four months expenses can go in a hurry when a disease hits a family that is underinsured.

[physioex]

18. You won't get any arguments from me.....

I was watching the PBS Documentary on Fronline about healthcare and they asked how many people in Japan went bankrupt because of healthcare? And the answer was ZERO. There is a lot of room for reform in our system and people are going to have to demand universal coverage.

[mike_c]

49. access to emergency funds is a good thing-- it's the rapacious interest...

...they charge that is the problem. I'd LOVE to be able to access more money than I possess in times of need. But in America, human suffering and need are debt and profit generating mechanisms. That's just wrong, IMO.

[Cleita]

62. The interest is a problem but sometime you can negotiate that.

I have threatened to pay off the credit card (bluffing) if they didn't give me a better deal and it worked.

[alfredo]

105. That's the whole reason for us having one.

[seabeyond]

13. mid 20's didnt do well with card and threw away. 30's, 40's i pay off each month

and no problem being responsible and not abusing them.

[Rhiannon12866]

15. Did anyone happen to catch NOW on PBS this week? That's what it was about. LINK:

It told the stories of people whose lives have been messed up by the dishonest practices of the credit card companies... :-(

Week of 1.2.2009
Credit Crunch
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/501/index.html

[MagickMuffin]

23. My PBS station doesn't air Now anymore

but the Credit Card Holder can always call the issuer and ask for a lower APR's. We did this a couple weeks ago, most of them lowered them. One company refused so I told them I would use a transfer on their money to another APR card, and boy oh boy, that did the trick. Although he told me he couldn't lower my APR, he did state that I could get another card at a lower rate and he would transfer the existing debt to the newer card at no charge.

My Credit Union told me about this back in the early 90's, and I have always been successful with it.

Congress just passed the law where Credit Card companies can no longer raise the APR's willy nilly, however, it won't take effect until 2010:grr:

[Rhiannon12866]

74. That's what they said on "60 Minutes," like this is going to help those suffering now... :-(

But thanks for the information, very helpful and kudos to you! IMO, this deserves it's own thread! :hi:

[MagickMuffin]

97. When I got Discover to lower my APR, I did come here to tell everyone

You can go read some of the responses I received back in Aug.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3771861


:hi:

[Rhiannon12866]

103. Terrific! Thanks so much for posting your thread!

One for the bookmarks! :hi:

[rpannier]

20. I would except I live and work overseas

The banks here have no checking accounts and I need my credit cards to do business.

[RidinMyDonkey]

24. Do it. I only had one credit card and I'm totally fucked because of it

it wasn't even technically isn't a credit card. It's a Store-credit card. I only used it because when I worked there it was the only way they would let me use my employee discount. I got laid off, which of course meant I couldn't pay off the card on time. I now owe them probably 10 times more than I would have if I would have just given up my discount. Credit cards are tools of evil.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. Why? Credit Cards Are Incredibly Convenient And Useful. Why Would I Want To Shred Them?

Credit cards are only as bad as the person who uses them.

[alfredo]

42. This topic is for those who need to shred them. It is also a statement of

my contempt for the Credit Card companies.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

43. I Didn't Realize This Thread Was Only For Those Who Are Irresponsible With Credit.

My bad. :hi:

[alfredo]

45. It's OK, I'm not a thread nazi. You can talk about raising pansies if you

want. It's communication that is important, not the specific topic.

[seabeyond]

51. ahhhhh

i am so with you on that. isnt that the truth. wink.

[alfredo]

72. It isn't a virtue or anything like that. I have a short attention span.

[seabeyond]

79. I have a short attention span.

lol. i hear ya. what happens when you get old. eyes go, hearing goes, memory goes.... life gets really easy in all the quiet and fuzziness....

cute

[alfredo]

84. But the bullshit meter becomes more sensitive.

[seabeyond]

95. ya... lol lol. yup. lol. uh hu. n/t

[mod mom]

26. I have one creditcard that I pay off each month. I refuse to use ATMs (DIEBOLD) & never have $.

[madokie]

28. sixty damn near one years old and not one credit card ever

Wife is 4 years younger and same with her. Two sons 32 and 27 same there too. Credit cards are not necessary nor perferable. We do just fine too I might add.

[AwakeAtLast]

31. I haven't used a credit card in about ten years

If I'd had any credit card debt through our family's lean times, and believe me there have been quite a few, we would have filed for bankruptcy long ago.

We now have two cars (one paid for), a new house, and I have money left over after all the bills are paid.

When credit card companies raise your rates for no reason, that's a form of extortion.

edit: spelling

[Froward69]

33. Done!!!

Years ago. I kept the one I have had since college. all the others I either canceled or let stay open with no balance. I use the Credit bureaus own math equation work against them. I have a fairly decent credit score yet never use it. when it comes to credit I rarely if ever tell anyone my social security number. then they cannot report it to my credit. even if i have a difficult time making payments.

I am so much happier now!!!

[mike_c]

46. did that several years ago-- best financial decision I ever made....

If I can't afford to pay for it, I don't buy it. There are some exceptions, of course-- I financed my automobile. But otherwise, I have no consumer credit debt at all, and no high-interest plastic in my wallet. It's great.

[seabeyond]

52. If I can't afford to pay for it, I don't buy it.

in my 20's i got into debt. credit card. checks bouncing. i tore up card and left the bank and paid cash for everything for years.

then as i was older i tried again. i have done it poor and with money and not having the ax over my neck is just so much better. the pressure of having people after me was horrible. not a way to live. i feel for people living like that. "things" just arent worth that stress. i cannot emphasize that enough to people i know that get themselves in that situation. generally the younger nieces and nephews. young adults.

[johnlucas]

57. It ain't just the credit cards

The whole banking system is evil.
Do away with credit cards to go for debit cards and checks and you're still dealing with bastards. Just another form of one.

Pay cash whenever possible but if you gotta go to credit or debit do what you gotta do.
With the way things are going, pretty soon I don't think we'll have to worry about this distinction much longer.
The entire money system looks to be ready for collapse. It's just cheap things with humanly assigned value after all.
John Lucas

[nbsmom]

58. Ya, credit cards should be used only for emergencies BUT

I kind of prefer using the credit card to pay for stuff just because there was a rash of people getting ripped off at grocery stores and restaurants using their debit cards in my area -- main problem with debit card fraud seems to be that the burden of proof is on the victim -- unlike the credit card where you're not responsible for any theft over $50. So someone rips you off for $100s or $1000s out of your checking account and you have to run around and prove that you didn't spend the money.

Too late to go back to the barter system, though...

[11 Bravo]

60. I prefer to get an interest-free loan whenever I wish.

I haven't paid a penny in finance charges or interest in over 15 years. (Obviously, not everyone can manage to pay their bill in full each month, but for those who can, the credit card is a wonderful tool.)

[mountainvue]

61. Already did it about two years ago.

I use my debit card only now.

[grannylib]

63. Did that over ten years ago, and haven't had one since.

Yeah, it's been a hassle a couple of times when we had legitimate emergencies and no credit, but it's overall been well worth it.

[hot subtle body]

65. Do people actually still write checks whilst shopping? Nothing more irritating

than someone who is sitting up there writing "War and Peace" on their frigging check...

Debit cards are way more used these days, I would imagine.

(Oh, and in my 43 years, I have never had a credit card:))

[Fire1]

91. Yep, they sure do and I'm one of em. Too long? Tough cookies.

[Bonn1997]

67. I've never had trouble paying my credit card off

I get an e-mail that my bill is ready and shortly thereafter just pay it off. I love getting 1% cash back from Capital One. And it's not like I have a huge salary by any means as an assistant professor at a college with very little money. Too many people try to live way beyond their means because they mistakenly think that a bigger house or a more prestigious car will buy them happiness.

[HEyHEY]

69. Why should stores take the risk of bounced cheques?

[alfredo]

73. Target and other stores can verify checks at the checkout.

[LeftyMom]

76. That doesn't check your balance, only that you're not on a database of rubber check writers

of which there are several.

[alfredo]

77. It seems to work for them.

[LeftyMom]

78. They still get bounced checks.

All retailers that get them do. They just anticipate a certain percentage of loss and figure that into their pricing. Which means that everybody pays for hot checks.

[alfredo]

80. It does cut down on those who habitually write bad checks. Strike one and

you lose check writing privileges. How many bad checks get paid off plus penalty? How many were fraud or honest mistakes?

[LeftyMom]

85. From my experience in retail management, very few get paid off.

We had a few customers who caught the problem right away and called us, often before we'd got notice from the bank, and we'd find a way to get them taken care of. Of the ones that go to collections, very few ever pay up.

[alfredo]

88. The cost to the check writer is much higher than to the business. They

go on that deadbeat list, and will probably have some damage done on their credit rating.

[LeftyMom]

90. The third or fourth time somebody wrote you a hot check for several grand

you'd probably change your tune. :shrug:

The same exact transaction can take place with a credit card and the retailer can be assured of payment. Taking checks at the retail level is pretty risky and stupid. I'd expect to see fewer and fewer companies willing to do so.

[alfredo]

92. At our shop, it only took one bad check to put that person on our shit list.

[LeftyMom]

93. I'm not talking about one person. I'm talking about repeated fraudulent checks generally.

And this was with a major retailer using all the usual screening processes, in a shop small enough to train employees to do so effectively. Small shops often have it worse.

[alfredo]

96. We also had a reputation for being hard asses with scammers. I would

personally track down thieves. One time it took me four years, but I found him on the stolen bike. I gave him a choice, one of the options entailed an ass kicking. He handed over the bike and walked home. Another meant going to a neighboring county. I caught his underaged accomplice, and told him that his partner ratted on him. He told me everything. I took the info to the police, including other businesses they had stolen from.

The guy got arrested. He'd been working in tandem with the kid. He'd distract shop owners and the kid would do the stealing. He had totally dominated this kid. He tried to lay all the blame on the kid after he was arrested. We always tried to redirect kids, but would show no mercy to adults. the guy knew what bike parts were the most valuable and schooled the kid in what to take.

If I caught a kid stealing, I would give them three choices. Call their parents, call the cops, or work off their debt to us. Everyone chose the last option.

Big is impersonal. It's easier to steal from a faceless victim.

[pl259]

82. I guess I'll stick with my cards...and pay them off each month.

And there aren't any businesses around here that won't take my check so your advice is worth about as much as a bag of dogshit.

[pl259]

83. I guess I'll stick with my cards...and pay them off each month.

And there aren't any businesses around here that won't take my check so your advice is worth about as much as a bag of dogshit.

[alfredo]

86. Your local businesses do not trust the people of your community.

[Scooter24]

100. I plan on keeping both my credit cards

one with a 100k limit and the other with an unlimited limit. If you're responsible with your money and can use them wisely, then they can be a great asset.

My business will accept a personal check however we will not discharge goods or services until the check has cleared. I strongly advocate using a debit or check card for your day-to-day purchases in lieu of a check.

[alfredo]

104. Credit cards hide the consequences of spending. You don't see the money

leave your hand, or your checking account balance drop.