OK, so how rich are YOU?

[Tyler Durden]

Poll question: OK, so how rich are YOU?

I'm tired of hearing about how if I just save more, I'll be able to afford a Hybrid and retire to Aruba.

I will be honest to you, but first understand that I lost $60K on my last house, $50K on the house in Canada I couldn't emigrate to, and paid an extra $25K to the IRS and more than $9K in healthcare copays in surgery for myself and family in the last year, not to mention being fired for the first 3 months of 2007 and now having to pony another $3K in healthcare copays and $600/month for health insurance until next January.

That said, the new job pays the equivalent of $18/hour if you figure my salary in 50 hours/week straight time over a year. That's gross: works out to less than $30K a year after deductions.

So if you're touting that we all should pony up $20k for a brand new Hybrid, let's here how you're paying for it, and if you're down in the lower 80% like the rest of us, let's comiserate.

Consider these figures GROSS.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Family of 4, $20-$30K, We own our trailer but not the land it sits on and

it is falling apart around our ears. Retirement? College fund?

Feh.

Thank God for MaineCare or my family would be going without health insurance!

[Jonathan50]

21. A trailer in Maine?

I bet your heating bills are horrendous..

[GreenPartyVoter]

38. Ayuh. :^( Electric too. But, the summers are worth it :^D

[Maine-ah]

41. hey GPV!

:hug:

we're on that 30-35k mark, family of 3. Yep, and thank god for MC! It's our health insurance too.:hug:

[GreenPartyVoter]

53. Still, it's sometimes a curse. I can't get a job because it might mean I would lose

my coverage.

Honestly, it shouldn't have to be this way. Universal healthcare for all, already!

[LisaM]

2. I won't state what my vote was but I WILL say

I live in what is supposedly the most overpriced city in the country, and the only one where housing prices aren't dropping - Seattle. Your situation does not sound good. Where do you live?

[Tyler Durden]

8. Owosso, Michigan. 20 miles from Flint.

And you should see Flint. It looks like a 10 mile wide backlot set for "The Omega Man" or "Escape from New York."

Owosso is cute though. Property values are in the toilet: 4 BR's, 2 Baths, fenced back yard in a good neighborhood...less than $90K.

No shit.
REALLY. You should see what $150K gets you: PALACES and NOT McMansions: 100 year old PALACES.

[MADem]

31. That sounds like Houlton, Maine. Beautiful homes for that price.

Fantastic and opulent Victorians. Nice folk up that way too. Snow up to your chin, but right on the Canadian border, which is fun.

[LisaM]

66. Ah, yes. I'm originally from the Lansing area myself

I know what Owosso and Flint are going through.

[madrchsod]

3. less than 25,000

right now..doing what my mom and dad did during the 30`s everyone in the family pitching in till times get better...new car? not in the time i have left.

[NMDemDist2]

4. i don't know how to answer this question

last years taxes showed a gross income of $7800 (that is not a typo, less than 10,000 is correct)

but I managed last year to buy my home on one acre cash and spent 10K remodeling.

our household income is on track to top $80K this year if we keep doing exactly what we are doing now.

I have less than $20K in total debt which will be paid in full in 24 months, but have almost no savings 13 years out from retirement

it's a hard one for me to answer as you can see

I'd say I have a comfortable lifestyle albeit a modest one and fully expect to buy a hybrid car before I retire.

:shrug:

[MADem]

26. Did you get a new job to go from eight to eighty grand? NT

[NMDemDist2]

33. didn't have a job last year

was in the midst of selling/closing my business and home and moving to a rural area

and yes, now my hubby is working here and making pretty good bux and i'm working too

but who knows if we'll do it all year? :shrug:

[MADem]

36. Ah, famine to feast! Enjoy! NT

[cloudbase]

5. It's certainly not easy,

but it's quite doable. It's a discipline to put a little bit away every pay period, but it produces results in the long run. The guy who handles my retirement account calls it "getting rich slowly."

I'd be happy to have a couple of drinks with you, though. L'chaim!

[Tyler Durden]

10. At 54 years old, starting out with zero in the bank, AGAIN....

I will work until I die.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. Doable, if nothing goes wrong. And something always does.

I can, on good months, put away $250. But every time things build up a little I'm back in the hospital or some such, wiping out the attempt at savings. If not for my meager 401K and SS, I'd have nothing for retirement which will be coming all too soon.

[panader0]

6. 20-30, but, as a wise man once said, real wealth cannot be measured

with money. I own my house (I built it). I have three wonderful, healthy, intelligent teenagers, and I'm not with their mom anymore.

[Virginia Dare]

7. Isn't it a bit relative?

200K doesn't go nearly as far in a major city such as Washington, New York or San Francico as it would in Fargo North Dakota.

[swag]

9. Are you asking for income or "gross" worth, or what?

[Tyler Durden]

13. Gross income yearly.

You might elaborate on your worth or family size if you like.

I judged the top of the scale on "Pay me this for 4 years, and I can retire very well."

[cgrindley]

14. Yeah, please clarify... is this gross family income? (nt)

[MADem]

27. Yep, that makes a huge difference. If you own property you bought in the dark ages,

you're sitting on a boatload of "net worth."

[sinkingfeeling]

11. Are you asking about household income or individual income?

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. I don't recall anyone telling you to pony up and buy a Hybrid.

Unless I missed a thread somewhere, which is possible. You started a thread stating Hybrids cost waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than a non-Hybrid, which really isn't true. Hybrids, in SOME cases, are cheaper than a non-Hybrid. No Democrat is going to tell you to buy anything you cannot afford! You drive what you can afford. You live within your means. I don't understand why there's so much hatred for Hybrids. It's really strange to me. If you can't afford a Hybrid, you can't afford it. END OF SUBJECT. Why are you doing this? What's the point? Do you hate people who CAN afford a Hybrid? I don't hate those who can't and I'm surely not going to apologize for owning one. I'm PROUD of my Prius.

[Tyler Durden]

20. Because I keep getting told "just save and all will be well."

BUY your Prius if you want. But I'm tired of being compared to "Cafe Democrats" who can afford their Liberality. It shouldn't be expensive to be a progressive.

As to hating them...It's a scam. They are unneeded technology and don't tell me about leading to electric or otherwise: they already existed.

I'm HAPPY for you and your Prius. But some folks around here (not necessarily you) are making it seem like if you can't pony $20K+ for a new hybrid then you should stop wasting your money on crack and ripple.

So to speak.

[in_cog_ni_to]

35. I am truly sorry anyone here would say those things to you or anyone else.

I try never to pass judgment on people who have less than me. We are NOT wealthy, by a long shot, but we can afford a Prius.

As for the technology being unneeded? The cars use only 11 gallons of gas per month. In the summer 11 gallons goes 6-7 weeks. The less gas we buy, the better. If the auto industry would like to bring back the electric car, I would GLADLY buy one. Until then, my Prius conserves a LOT of gas and that makes ME feel good. They also emit ZERO pollution and THAT also makes me feel good. It also saves us money at the gas pump....that gives me great pleasure. It's like telling Bush and his oil cronies to stick their freakin' oil up their asses. My car really does make me happy in so many ways. I'm sorry people made you feel bad for not being able to afford one. That's just not right. I'm sorry.:(

[MADem]

44. I drive a 1986 car that gets 33 highway and is reliable as all get-out.

I use, between that and my other car (a 95 GEO, don't laugh, it SIPS gas) less than a tank of gas a month. We also have a newer (late 90s!!!) VW sedan for "long trips." That's the JAZZY and roomy car!!! Sometimes, we use less than a tank of gas in TWO months, depending. We change oil faithfully and get tune-ups. We don't "let shit go" and we have a good mechanic if we need one, which isn't often. So who needs a PRIUS?

Where you stand depends on where you sit. The people who tell you that you "have" to buy that twelve dollar "Fair Trade" Coffee, else you are evil, are themselves evil. They aren't progressive, they're intolerant assholes who cannot see the pain or the struggle of the working person. And because they're so damned obtuse, you should give them ALL of the attention they deserve--which is little to none.

Hell, who needs stress from people who do not get it? Stress causes illness. If they can't walk a mile in the other's shoes, well, they are the dumbasses.

It's tough out there, and I think it's gonna get much, much tougher. Unfortunately.

[Epiphany4z]

15. family of 7

30=50K it's a barley manageable bitch and getting harder. My oldest is in college MU of ohio..the one behind him is visiting colleges this year....the youngest is special needs in K.

On the upside man thing got a small raise today and we are buying a cheap..and I do mean cheap house..I hope so anyway...we bid on it last night...sigh but so did someone else.

[Blue_In_AK]

16. We're doing all right.

My husband has a pension from his days as a marine engineer, nothing extravagant, but enough, and I bring in about 20,000 typing transcripts. I bought my house at the end of a housing crash here in the late '80s, so my mortgage is manageable, plus it's a duplex so we have rental income. Social security will kick in in a couple of years. All in all, I'm satisfied, especially since my life was pretty much hand-to-mouth up until the last few years.

This sounds awful, but changing husbands really helped my bottom line. Plus the new one (who was my old high school sweetheart back in 1963), doesn't beat me up. :) Definitely a bonus.

[MADem]

22. Heh heh....definitely a bonus indeed!

Every shoe has a mate!! Yours was lost under the bed since 63!!!

[Blue_In_AK]

28. Yeah, I should have gone with my heart in the first place

instead of listening to my parents. "You two are too young to be so serious. You need to date other boys before you settle down." I think they probably regretted that I listened to them as much as I did as the years went by. I'm sorry they never lived to see me and my Jimmy back together, but maybe they were guiding things from some other realm.

O8)

[MADem]

30. Better late than never; I enjoy stories like yours. More joy and power to 'youse!!' NT

[whistle]

17. Gross income does not measure wealth, it is what is owned in the

...form of net worth: net worth = total assets - total liabilities


Most Americans owe more that they have and are thus in negative net worth only one to three pay checks away from disaster. Get laid off and you are SOL!

[MADem]

18. I'm rich, rich RICH...but I don't have much money.

I have great family, and we all contribute to making our lifestyle livable. Everyone pitches in a bit, so we manage on small pensions and frankly, uninspiring or low paying public service jobs for the most part. We could make more if we farmed out some caregiving duties here and there, but fuck that--family first.

We tend to "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without" to the extent we can. We don't "Consumer" too much--no fast food, restaurants are rare these days, not a lot of pricy entertainment, we don't eat a load of meat, we do a lot of (though not all--we aren't the fucking Waltons) cooking from scratch, and we think before we buy. We drive old cars that get good gas mileage, and that are low mileage cars because we're CHEAP with those, too--always have been. We've always combined trips, thought before we drove, and piled in together in the European style.

We love TV, and we spend the extra dough for HBO and some movie channels, we love a warm house, so we keep ours well insulated (put the dough into energy efficient windows, fans to move warm air about and whatnot) but we refuse to freeze, because it's not good for old bones or young ones. We like family and friends around all the time, so any occasion is an excuse for a party. That's our "entertainment" more or less.

So, we're rich, even though we don't have a massive bundle in the bank.

[Jonathan50]

19. You don't have a choice for...

I'm in debt over the top of my head and will never get out..

Medical bills have left us with tens of thousands in debt that I doubt we will ever be able to pay off.

Our single car is a 93 model with 250k miles and it's going to have to go another 100k before we'll have any realistic chance of replacing it even with a decent used car.

Luckily we have been able to retain our home since it is small and our mortgage is considerably less than rent on an apartment would cost us in our area.

[Solo_in_MD]

23. We are an exceptional case

I fell into a high paid but it could go away at any time position with no benefits here in the DC area. I elected to stay with it when it was time to return to CA to stock the college and retirement funds. We have to residences (home and the hovel I live in), and I fly back regularly. However the net is still better than I could do in CA. Wife is a senior teacher.

[Der Blaue Engel]

24. I'm on the low end of 50-100K, but I'll never be able to retire

These numbers all depend on where you live. I'm in San Francisco, and will never be able to buy a house, haven't had a new car in 14 years, and have a kid to support with no help from dad. Now I'm supporting a partner on disability, too, so there goes the tiny bit of money I had saved.

[porphyrian]

25. Broke as shit and in debt. - n/t

[misternormal]

29. Both of us working...

... No kids at home anymore... just the pets... house falling apart, paying for repairs... cars need fixing, can't afford a new car, and probably won't be able to, and now have to adjust W-4s again, because we owe the IRS...

We didn't get any tax breaks.

Just the way it is I guess.

[NMDemDist2]

37. I hear ya on the W-4s

the feds take 1/3 of every penny

no kids, no mortgage = no tax breaks

[misternormal]

42. Oh, we have a mortgage...

... but the deductions that I do have, in no way equal the standard deduction, so to itemize would be fruitless... and the interest deduction is moot... We have to settle for the crumbs that the IRS tosses back to us...

[tandot]

34. The two of us make around $80,000 in California

My dog and my cat just flat out refuse to work :shrug:

I guess what is more important than how much you make is what State you are in. We lived in Oklahoma for a few years and we had less than half of what we make now.

[MADem]

40. That's true--in some places, that salary would make you the rich guys in town.

And in other places, you'd be barely getting by.

I live in a rich-ass town, that wasn't always like that. We get by because we have NO debt, save recurring bills like heat, cable, light, and those goddamned taxes! But no car note, no mortgage, no credit card payments...which makes life easier for us.

[MistressOverdone]

39. I have worked for almost 40 years

and between my husband and myself we finally hit six figures. But I still only have five pair of shoes and none are newer than a year old. I'm not sure quite where it all goes.

[lectrobyte]

43. What kind of new SUV, car, or truck can you but that isn't $20K?

[Tyler Durden]

49. 3 VW's under $17K

Found Chevies: Aveo, HHR, Cobalt all under $15,000
Found Fords and Chryslers as well.
Stripped Civic: $14,000 new.
Stripped Hyundai Accent $11,000 new. Elantra $14,000.

I can keep going if you want, but I'll stick with my 1997 Saturn SL1: 125,000 miles gets 40 mpg at 70 mph and set me back about $800.

[lectrobyte]

58. Sure, there are cheaper cars and more expensive cars. I don't get

what kind of point you are trying to make. Are folks twisting your arm to buy a hybrid, or do you have some other issue with them?

[Tyler Durden]

59. 2 issues:

1. Yes. If you don't say "Buying a Hybrid is great/progressive/liberal" some people here piss on you.
2. I work in the auto industry. Electric and other non-fuel vehicles exist and they work. So why do we need expensive "transition" vehicles which cost more resources to produce? Then, see #1.

[lectrobyte]

60. Sorry you are being pissed on. I don't think anyone should be pissed on

for what they drive around here. Unless it's got a bumper sticker that says "God Bless Our Troops and President Bush" on it.

[frankenforpres]

76. ive read that dust to dust

hybrids are more wasteful than Hummers. i ride a motorcycle year round, so i dont really have a dog in the fight. i get about 40 mi/gal

[Beaverhausen]

45. How rich are the CEOs of Ford, GM and Chrysler?

[Tyler Durden]

50. 100's of Millions.

If one of them posts here, they should be ashamed of themselves.

[guitar man]

46. About 45k, combined

House is paid off, but it is still a struggle sometimes with the new daughter. No doubt, I borrowed more than I should have to buy some things that we always wanted, but that was before we knew the little one was on the way.

I do get good med insurance for the family from my job compared with a lot of people I know.

Still, we could use another 10k a year to make things not such a struggle.

[CrispyQ]

47. The smartest thing my husband & I did was pay our house off about 7 years ago.

We were thinking about upgrading to a bigger place, but I really, really wanted to take some time off from my job from hell. So instead of using the money we had saved as a down on a bigger place & renting our current little house, we paid off our current little house. I took two and a half years off work & I now work part time in a very relaxing atmosphere. Noon to five, Monday through Friday. Let me tell you, having my mornings off is soooooooo much nicer than having a bigger house! Hubby got laid off the week after the '04 election & he has been enjoying his own hiatus since.

At the start of "Gone With the Wind" there was a sundial with the engraved words, "Time is the essence of our lives." I think our culture has lost sight of that. America is all about money & material wealth. My husband says, "I can always make more money, but once your time is gone, it's gone forever."

[BluePatriot]

48. Here's how we got a car:

Hubby and I gross 60k/yr together. We got a new Mercury last September. But, we were lucky in a few ways:

1. his old car was a "gift" from his 'rents to get started. Transmission was going to kick it, not worth the $ to fix. Trade in $2000 with check engine light and all.
2. Due to living in a sanity-robbing, bruise-creating, shoebox of a loft and having no kids (this one's a biggie I think) we live way below our means. Saved $5k to put down on the car. Have since replaced this amount in the bank.
3. Dad works at a dealership. Took advantage of "D" or discount plan. That ate the taxes on the car sale. Also he discounts repairs/does them in his garage for a free meal and company.
4. Good credit ('rents cosigned on small card in college so I had a 7 yr history) got us a 0 percent APR financing deal over 72 mos. No interest = worth it. Doesn't mean I have to pay the minimum though I often do. Don't want to go upside down on the thing so I plan to throw some extra cash at it soon.

Payment: $224.50/mo
Insurance: ~$115/mo for both of our vehicles. No wrecks, hubby had an old ticket or two.

If we didn't have good credit/family mechanic/a starter trade in car, etc, we'd be permanently driving "beater" cars. I count myself lucky. I also wonder sometimes if we should have done this but the truth is hubby needs a lesson on pride in ownership and how to take care of things so they last, as evidenced by SO thoroughly crapping out his last car, and he learns by "doing." Once he is aware of the expenses involved he learns his darn lesson.

Repubs don't understand that people also get by on their luck and connections and where they were born/whom to. That's what pisses me off about their "work harder omg or it's your fault" mentality.

edit: we live in the Houston area so our dollar goes a bit farther here I think. Nice houses around $150k, a dinner out ~$30.00. Our rent is a bit below $600/mo. (Oh, yeah, and our health insurance is free. Makes me stick around this job I dislike.)

[Individualist]

51. Spare change? What's that?

[mdmc]

52. $12 per hour in a $21 world

:shrug:

I am still in the top 10% of earners worldwide, imho.

[eppur_se_muova]

54. The title suggests a question on NET WORTH, not income ...

which might be more revealing. Be sure to include large negative numbers for those whose assets + debt do indeed sum to less than zero.

[renate]

63. It'd be interesting to see that

I know people who make $200K who spend so much they're in debt. Unbelievable.

[Nye Bevan]

55. Make sure to deduct the medical expenses on your tax return

Medical and dental expenses are deductible to the extent that they exceed 7.5% of gross income, so given the numbers in your post you should certainly qualify for this.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p502/ar02.html#d0e299

[movie_girl99]

56. I don't know about retiring

I was a stay at home mom for 13 years so I'm in the game pretty late at 42. My husband is from England and has been here for 7 years. All in all, I'm just happy to have a healthy family, a good job and a roof over my head.

[Fiendish Thingy]

57. Despite our differences in income, we all have in common...

the ability to afford a computer and an internet connection...unless some of you are posting from your local library...

It's kind of amazing that in a few short years, a computer/internet connection has become almost as essential a utility as having a TV or a phone, what's the percentage of homes with internet now? I thought I read it was something like 70%?

[taught_me_patience]

61. 70k+ for myself

Fiance makes 130k+ so we are o.k. Definitely not living the lap of luxury here in Los Angeles.

[Sammy Pepys]

62. Six figures combined.

I work full time, and my wife works part-timish (30 hours a week...not enough to be conider full time, but more than part time).

[RiverStone]

64. The best things in life, are not things.....but

I wish the question in your poll was not one I had to think about.

At a few years away from 50, I'm struggling to reinvent myself after many years in public education.
I went into education a long time ago; long on passion, altruism, idealism (take your pick of isms) -and I have made a HUGE difference in the lives of countless kids. That is measured beyond dollars.

Though frustratingly - and this did not hit me till a few years ago - the compensation reward (or lack thereof) now exceeds the return on teaching/helping kids. Here I am at mid-life, still struggling financially as a divorced dad to two great teenagers. I resent that even graduating top of my class in grad school, even after 20+ years teaching, with all that....us educators are woefully underpaid.

Many of our kids that graduated who go into high tech or business are making more $$$ then us 20 year teachers w/masters within 3-5 years. I did not go into teaching to make money - who does - I'd just love to experience living without the constant drum beat of financial pressure.

Someday we will spend more on kids and education then we do on bombs and bullets. But not today...

I take responsibility for my choices - and now look to somehow reinvent myself as an entrepreneur (just gotta figure it out) :)

p.s. I know my rant is a little off subject; this just happened to catch me while weighing heavily on my financial picture and career choices.



peace~

[Jonathan50]

69. You forgot to mention prisons...

Someday we will spend more on kids and education then we do on bombs and bullets. But not today...

California has spent more on prisons than higher education since 1994.

I don't know about other states but I suspect that's true in a lot of states.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

65. To some extent it's relative.

I'm a PhD student. I'm living on a grant of £14,000 a year (about $20,000, I think), and can do so very comfortably. However, that's clearly not enough to buy a house or raise a family.

[Tyler Durden]

67. The opinion in this country appears to be one can.

All they have to do is not spend money on drugs booze and cable.

What a crock.

[B Calm]

68. One thing for sure, I don't fly first class. For that matter I don't have

the money for coach either...

[Wiley50]

70. My Income Is $624/mo SSI Disability

You should have added an under $10,000 place to vote.

There are quite a few of us

(and until '02 I owned a home valued at a quarter million
funny how life can change really fast)

[PhilipShore]

71. Other

I don't know, around three hundred and fifty thousand dollars to seven hundred thousand dollars, or seven billion dollars.

I'm still getting an official accounting.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

72. Unemployed, highly educated. Fell outta the middle class.

Have a doctorate in law. Haven't worked in several years. Had crappy temp jobs but eventually couldn't get even hired for those. Used to have a career but didn't get in the system, never had a mentor, and thus never got a pension. Nothing but competition, being backstabbed by judges, lawyers and court reporters, and if I asked anyone to help me find a paralegal job they got offended, like jobs are supposed to fall out of the sky.

All this economic decline started in the 1990s,so I blame some of it on Clinton and it's only gotten worse.

The SO got canned from his job last year. he was taking home $20K/year but we had health insurance. He has a BS & MS in physics/math he wasn't using. He was working for idiots. He was doing creative programming and got canned because the boss didn't understand it and couldn't stand another threatening male around. He has three college degrees and so do I. If we made now what we did in the 80s, adjusted for inflation, we should each be making 150K or $200K. But we can't even get crappy jobs. Don't want them. Don't have health insurance so we're just taking our chances.

We're living on a bit of savings and I'm going to have to sell my house and move elsewhere to survive. Have old cars that are paid for. We are gonna call it "early retirement" because I gave up on finding a job based on my credentials.

Apparently in the job market, once you turn forty, you're supposed to drop dead. And if you hit fifty or sixty and are still able bodied, tough shit. Employers are into mediocrity and are threatened by bright, educated people. My bachelor's degree and doctorate did NOTHING to help me get a job. What a joke.

America's turned into "Chimp World". No better than chimps with one alpha male, and males fighting for dominance and a harem of females.

Sure am glad I spent 12 years in grade school and 12 years in college. :sarcasm:

[yurbud]

73. $40K for master's degree and college teaching

[opiate69]

74. Family of 5, 24K/year.. it's rough but we manage.

Own our own mobile home (an ancient piece of shit), but rent the lot.

[frankenforpres]

75. fiancee and I=$130

my fiancee makes about $50K, im going from $15K to $80K (Ph. D). I have about $70K in student loans that i will have to pay off.

[proud patriot]

77. $20K-$30K and I'm in the SF Bay Area

[Thothmes]

78. Rich?

house paid for, value $179,000.
both cars paid for
No credit card debt
income is $36,000 service retirement.
As a service retiree, health care is not to costly.
Guess am not doing to badly, not sure I would consider myself rich

[rainbow4321]

79. Roughly $80,000...36 hrs/week

But only cuz I am in a nursing job where I choose to have a higher hourly pay (I'm a single mom) rather than get benefits like health insurance (I buy my own and my ex covers our kid), no paid sick or vacation time--taking off=no $$. If I do want a vacation, though, I can always arrange my work schedule to where I can work the beginning of one week (Sun-Mon-Tues) and the end of the next (Thur-Fri-Sat)--gets me 8 days off in a row. Extremely lucky in that I haven't been "sick" to the point of needing days off--went 3 yrs, actually, with never calling myself off til there was a family emergency last year.

[Jimbo S]

80. Rich = amount of wealth, not amount of income.

and depending on the region of the country one lives, the standard of living varies.