Bush: "This recent out-burst of violence was INSTIGATED BY HAMAS"!! And Dems are SILENT as before!

[Sensitivity]

Why are Dems so gutless? Why aren't we outraged by the murder of the truth. Any hope of a real change in this world is fading as we remain silent. We have now joined the fraud in this bloody fiasco. We are just as guilty as we let Bush's lie stand.

[Mudoria]

1. Because Democrats in Congress know he's right for a change?

[DesertFlower]

3. exactly. nt

[Sensitivity]

5. Haaretz: "Disinformation, secrecy and lies: How the Gaza offensive came about "

At least Israeli progressive are willing to face the truth and question the "Official Story".

[redqueen]

7. Thank you. Link below.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050426.html

[dbonds]

11. He's right unless you back up the clock more than 2 weeks and look at what caused the situation.

Israel was preventing supplies getting to Gaza, Hamas was reacting to their blockade.

[Sensitivity]

35. 2 causalties from occasional rockets over past year CANNOT justify massacre

[dbonds]

38. You obviously missed what I was saying...

I was blaming the blockade of gaza for the reason they fired any rockets in the first place. That is what I meant by looking beyond the last couple weeks to place blame.

[Lightning Jack]

19. nope, W has never been right.

but thanks for identifying yourself for the ignore list,
anyone who agrees with W belongs there.

[G_j]

28. Bush right ???

a broken clock has Bush beat by a long shot.

[bstender]

32. nope

it's bc they will suffer if they question Israel

[TankLV]

37. even a broken clock is "right" twice a day...

and bush* is "right" on this...sigh...

[billyoc]

2. They're not silent, they're lining up to agree with him.

[Lint Head]

4. What is the 'truth' and were is it. Can you provide the documentation

and dates associated with the reason for escalating the conflict and causing civilian deaths to get to the Hamas leaders?

I am neither pro Israel, pro Hamas or pro Palestine. I am pro justice.
:dem:

[Sensitivity]

9. Haaretz story provides a non PC Israeli perspective. Would that we had that here

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050426.html

Justice demands the question and seek truth.

[wyldwolf]

13. so Israel took measures to protect themselves?

[sandnsea]

12. What Palestinians label "the seige"

Wherein the main roads in and out of Gaza are closed by the Israeli military. Conflict ensues. So they build tunnels between Egypt and Gaza, and of course both weapons and humanitarian supplies go through those tunnels. So Israel targets them and people die. That's what has been going on during the cease-fire so Hamas said they weren't interested in extending it. Rockets fly. And here we are.

[wyldwolf]

6. wasn't it?

[Lightning Jack]

20. no, Israel just decided now was the time for them to wreak havoc

had to do it while W still had their back.

they had already broken the cease-fire back in November.

they would have used anything as an excuse to start their offensive.

[Warpy]

8. We have no choice, actually.

The air waves are dominated by Israel first people who bleat continuously about Hamas while ignoring the fact that Israel violated the cease fire.

No alternative point of view need bother saying a thing. It will be shut out.

I have no use for the leaders on either side. While they are wedded to violence, this will never be resolved.

However, Hamas angers me. Israel sickens me.

My only sympathy lies with all the people on both sides who are trapped.

[Fozzledick]

10. So you've got to be DUMBER THAN GEORGE BUSH to defend Hamas??

[kentuck]

14. This will make everything better...

No more anger. No more hatred. No more killing. War is peace.

[Occam Bandage]

15. It was.

As background, the current tension in Gaza was instigated by the election and later violent gun-battle takeover by Hamas (which I say not to place blame, but rather to outline the spark of this particular I/P conflict). It was sustained, elevated, and exacerbated by the Israeli blockade (which I consider to be the greatest crime of any mentioned in this post.)

The recent outburst Bush was referring to was instigated by Hamas firing rockets into areas full of innocent civilians. It is sustained, elevated, and exacerbated by the horrendous Israeli bombing campaign against areas full of innocent civilians.

Hamas did indeed instigate this recent outburst. However, Bush is entirely wrong for leaving it at that, and not mentioning that the "outburst" is a disproportionate and indefensible atrocity almost entirely perpetuated by Israel.

[Lightning Jack]

23. funny how you fail to mention the cease fire that existed, and Israel's breakage of it

but if you mentioned that,
then you couldn't blame this on Hamas, right?

[Occam Bandage]

24. Here's a hint if you plan on sticking around this board.

We like people who actually read posts before responding to them.

I call the Israeli blockade of Gaza "the greatest crime of any mentioned in this post." I say "the 'outburst' is a disproportionate and indefensible atrocity almost entirely perpetuated by Israel." I refer to the "horrendous Israeli bombing campaign against areas full of innocent civilians." When I mention Hamas's recent history in the Gaza strip, I say, "which I say not to place blame but rather to outline the spark of this particular I/P conflict." I call George Bush "entirely wrong."

And you toddle onto this message board, and act like I'm trying to "blame this on Hamas." I'm practically speechless.

[Lightning Jack]

27. I read your post and despite your qualifications, you still said that Hamas instigated this

but thanks for the advice 'old-timer'

[Occam Bandage]

29. It did. Hamas was the party that declared it would not extend the cease-fire,

and fired into Israel. That was the spark of this current conflict. It is true that Israel on occasion violated the terms of the cease-fire with occasional cross-border raids, but those were not the sparkpoint of this conflict. The failure to renew the ceasefire over the status of the blockade was. It is partially true that Israel violated the terms of the ceasefire as regards the blockade, but keep in mind Hamas did as well, given its failure to control weapons smuggling.

Regardless, I don't blame Hamas for not renewing the ceasefire as it stood; Israel's blockade was slowly strangling the entire Palestinian population, and it would be unreasonable to suggest that they simply sit back and do nothing whatsoever. It is, however, unjustified to claim that Hamas's Dec.20 repeal of the ceasefire and subsequent military actions were not the spark that lit this particular powderkeg. It's quite possible to acknowledge that Hamas instigated this flare-up while placing by far the greatest share of the blame on Israel's shoulders.

[Lightning Jack]

31. you mean the cease-fire that had already been broken?

or is Hamas the only one bound by cease-fire?

If they had begun firing Rockets immediately after the Israeli raid, would you still say that they started this?

[Occam Bandage]

34. The rockets weren't a response to the raid. You know they weren't. They were a response

to the ongoing situation regarding the blockade. The raids had almost nothing to do with this particular conflagration. I mean, yes, these conversations can easily turn into endless cataloguing of tangential atrocities and illegalities, but let's stay on topic.

If the rockets were fired immediately after the raid in retaliation to the raid, then yes, I would say Israel instigated this particular outburst. And if they were fired in 1918 in retaliation to the British defeating the Turkish army at Megiddo, then I would say that Britain instigated this particular outburst. But since neither are the case, I won't.

[Sensitivity]

30. Good comment. But my point was the Bush's statement as a whole is typical dissinformation

[HEyHEY]

16. It was.

That doesn't excuse this response, but Hama DID start it.

[Deep13]

17. Nothing good is going to happen over there.

Outsiders have been haranguing those involved for fifty years at least for a peaceful solution. As long as each side insists it has a divine title to that scrap of desert, the fighting will never end. Ultimately, this has nothing to do with us. Let them fight it out. That's what is going to happen anyway.

[gulliver]

18. The Dems are silent...that is the part that bothers me.

This was "instigated by Hamas" but who cares? They probably did it to get exactly the reaction they are getting.

But the Dems should be talking past and future on this.

This latest "lame blame game" is NO EXCUSE for Bush. He let the two parties degenerate to this. Granted, it was their sovereign right to choose downward-spiraling idiocy over working toward peace. But it's not the president of the United States's job to let them.

The Dems have none of the bases covered either. Really sad. They are afraid of being perceived as criticizing Israel. That's how dumb and lowbrow they are apparently taking it right now.

I look forward to Clinton as SoS. Things are going to get back on track. The problem is that the Dems aren't prepared. They should be "pre-blaming" Bush for any terrorist attack in the first year of the Obama administration, because Bush has let the I/P situation go so awry. Otherwise, Clinton will be three months into a new round of peace talks between the parties and Bin Laden will strike again. Then, the Republicans will blame the strike on the peace talks.

[Lint Head]

21. I'm not an isolationist but here we go again getting involved in

another countries problems. We need to concentrate on our own issues.
:dem:

[bstender]

33. Dems are always silent

Time to get over the childish notion that "Dems" are in some significant way an opposition party. We've had a single corporate party for many many MANY years. On every issue of serious national interest, the Dems are in lockstep with Repugs; military spending, Iraq, 'War on Terror, Israel, expansionist/imperialist foreign policy in general, health care, tax policy, budget priorities, energy, civil rights...did i miss any? (abortion rights and rhetoric is their 'big' difference)

[goforit]

22. Ok W.......And Russia allout attacked Georgia first....NOT!!!!

[JM]

25. Sorry...we can't have it both ways

I find it incredibly ironic at how many people argue that the Palestinians, specifically those in Gaza and under Hamas "leadership", are somehow the good guys and Israel is somehow the bad bully, considering what the U.S. and our allies do around the world with our support. Pot meet kettle.

Consider these points for a moment.

Iran has consistently saber rattled and antagonized their neighbors, now with the threat of nuclear weapons. We along with many other countries, created an embargo of goods and services against Iran. How is this any different than Israel creating an embargo against a body of people whose leadership publicly espouses the destruction of Israel? Isn't this better than an outright attack? So what if Israel created an embargo? I would much rather see that than what we are seeing now. Better the chance that the people in Gaza would realize that if they sided with Fatah, they would be better off than to go immediately to bloodshed.

I find it ironic that despite the embargo on Gaza, there is money available to purchase and smuggle in supplies from Egypt. I find it even more ironic that the Hamas leadership has chosen to spend limited funds on weaponry rather than other supplies like food and medicine. Anyone willing to blame that on the Israelis? I don't see Israel telling Hamas to buy weaponry.

Is there any reason anyone here can think of as to why the Israelis have continued negotiation with Abbas, leader of Fatah, while this Gaza operation is expanding? Could it be because Fatah and the Palestinians of the West Bank are not busying themselves with lobbing rockets indiscriminately into Israel?

Put yourself in the same position. Do you think if some rogue drug cartel starting firing rockets from Mexico into Tucson, do you honestly think anyone in the US would be saying "gee, perhaps we ought to be negotiating"?. I doubt it. We would be doing the same thing with even less warning.

Nobody is really willing to sit idly by while being shot at, no matter what the situation. Nonetheless we seem to be perfectly willing to find others wrong despite the fact we would act in the same way in the same situation.

JM

[sixmile]

26. Clearly the reason is blackmail

What other possible reason could there be? Profit?

[deaniac21]

36. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fuDDqU6n4o