Moderate American Jews Need to Take Back the "Israel Lobby"

[Truth2Tell]

For me the hardest part of watching the unwarranted, counterproductive and wanton slaughter in Gaza is knowing that my tax Dollars are helping pay the bill, supply the arms, and maintain the diplomatic cover. It's frightening to understand that millions and millions of my fellow humans quite rightfully hold America, along with Israel, equally responsible for the atrocities they are witnessing daily on their television sets. It's frightening to know that our unwavering support for these very public war crimes is breeding vast legions of bitter new enemies for my children to face in their lifetimes.

This is not in the interests of America, and it is not necessary.

For far too many years the interests of the State of Israel in America have been "represented" by organizations and individuals with a very narrow and twisted view of what those interests are. AIPAC, the ADL and others, when it has come to advocacy in foreign affairs, have represented only the far right, pro-war version of Israeli self-interest; the Israeli Likudnik, neo-con vision. In fact, their ranks have blended and cross-bred with the American neo-cons to the point of being almost indistinguishable.

There is so much more to "Israeli interests" than this belligerent school of thought. And there are so many more American Jews who deserve a voice than are given one by the present neo-con AIPAC political cabal.

Our political leaders want to support Israel, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that proposition. But for far too long they, including our fine Democrats, have let the far-right AIPAC cabal define what it means to "support Israel." It's time for that to change. Alternatives do exist.

As progressive Democrats we owe it to our leadership to push them to seek out those alternative, moderate, humane, sensible and widely-held American Jewish views.

Here are some examples of progressive, pro-peace Israeli/Jewish advocacy groups to support. Please help press our Congressional Democrats and President-elect Obama to seek input from, and follow the guidance of, these real Jewish voices:

J Street

http://www.jstreet.org/

J Street is the political arm of the pro-Israel, pro-peace movement.

J Street was founded to promote meaningful American leadership to end the Arab-Israeli and Palestinian-Israel conflicts peacefully and diplomatically. We support a new direction for American policy in the Middle East and a broad public and policy debate about the U.S. role in the region.

J Street represents Americans, primarily but not exclusively Jewish, who support Israel and its desire for security as the Jewish homeland, as well as the right of the Palestinians to a sovereign state of their own - two states living side-by-side in peace and security. We believe ending the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is in the best interests of Israel, the United States, the Palestinians, and the region as a whole...

Tikkun

http://tikkun.org/

...The Tikkun Community is committed to fostering a new consciousness so that we allow ourselves to know that the most significant and rewarding part of our lives comes through:

Acts of love and generosity

Kindness to humans and animals

Caring for and giving to others without expectation of reward or a “return on the investment of our time and energy”

Work that is fulfilling both in its process and in the sense it gives us that we are contributing to the public good

Awe at the grandeur of creation

The experience of being recognized on the deepest level of our being and recognizing others in that way

And acknowledging our connection to something larger than ourselves and seeing our lives in the context of service to the ultimate triumph of love, goodness, justice and peace...

Israeli Policy Forum

http://www.israelpolicyforum.org/

Israel Policy Forum (IPF) advocates for active and sustained American diplomatic efforts, which are essential to achieving a comprehensive settlement of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Israel Policy Forum believes that through a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Israel and its Arab neighbors, as well as the region as a whole, will become more secure, prosperous and stable. IPF also sees such a resolution as critical to garnering the international support necessary to effectively wage war on terror and to increase global security. To achieve this goal - and strengthen its interests in the region - the United States must remain a consistent and fully engaged partner in the Middle East peace process. IPF is doing everything possible to encourage and support America in this effort...

Brit Tzedek v'Shalom

http://www.btvshalom.org/

Brit Tzedek v'Shalom is America’s largest grassroots Jewish organization dedicated to promoting a negotiated two-state resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This means promoting a U.S. foreign policy which supports Israel, the Palestinians, and the Arab states in making the difficult compromises that are needed for a negotiated solution.

Through our network of 40,000 supporters and over 1000 rabbis, we educate and organize the American Jewish community in support of Israel’s long term interest in peace. Our supporters are organized into a national chapter network and vibrant on-line activist community. Chapters advocate regularly with their Congress members, organize educational events in their local Jewish communities supported by our rabbinic network, and reach out to their local Jewish press...

Not in My Name

http://www.nimn.org/index.php

Not In My Name, as a predominantly Jewish organization, is deeply committed to a peaceful and just resolution of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, a resolution that will provide safety, security and freedom for Jews, Palestinians, and all others living in this region. We believe that such a peace can only be achieved when Israel withdraws from its settlements in the Palestinian territories and addresses the legitimate national and human rights of the Palestinian people. We do not accept that Jewish survival depends on unconditional support for the Israeli government and its policies. Rather we believe that the future safety and survival of our people rests on our ability to live in peace with our neighbors and to work to ensure justice and security for all people...

Jewish Voice for Peace

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

Through grassroots organizing, education, advocacy, and media, Jewish Voice for Peace works to achieve a lasting peace that recognizes the rights of both Israelis and Palestinians for security and self-determination. Join us in our efforts to promote a U.S. foreign policy based on peace, democracy, human rights, and respect for international law.

Of course this is just a partial list. There are many, many more groups and many individuals who speak for a different vision of "Israeli interests." They, and we, must push to make our voices heard, both in the halls of Congress, and in the myopic American media.

Many in the Middle East have begun to speak to this issue as well. I'll conclude with this apropos excerpt from an editorial in today's Lebanese Daily Star:

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&article_id=98801&categ_id=17

...Now Israel needs help again. It needs reasonable people who share the faith of most of Israel's citizens to rescue them - and their Arab neighbors - from a degenerate political class that is leading all of us to disaster. Specifically, it is moderate Jewish Americans who can be the most helpful by taking back control of the so-called "Israel lobby" from the zealots who have made it the swamp of militaristic racism that it is. The lobby has enormous influence over US policy in the Middle East - and therefore over the calculations of Israeli political parties as they select their standard-bearers in national elections.

<snip>

Israel's recent leaders have failed each and every test put before them. More importantly, they have, in effect, betrayed both their own people and their co-religionists abroad who have supported them for decades. If heavy pressure is not at last applied for the current generation to be replaced, the Israeli government will continue to be a menace to its neighbors, to US interests in the Middle East, and to the long-term welfare of the Israeli people.

Yes indeed, Israel needs American help now more than ever. But for the sake of our children we need to change what that means. So lets all help moderate American Jews "take back the Israel Lobby." Lets take it back for peace.

[Ian David]

1. Already donated to Tikun. K&R. n/t

[Mind_your_head]

2. Bah...... Jews & Palestinians fighting.......

There's NOTHING there worth fighting over!

What's worth fighting over?

They (Jews & Palestinians) remind me of my two cats who fight over "an empty bowl".

[scarletwoman]

6. Wow. You've obviously put a lot of effort into researching the history and the issues involved.

:eyes:

[Truth2Tell]

7. sorry never mind, on edit, thought you were replying to the OP.

:hi:

[scarletwoman]

9. Yeah, it was obvious that you missed which post I was replying to. No problem!

It's a great OP, btw.

:hi:
sw

[Mind_your_head]

10. If you take history out of it......there's nothing 'special' about that land/earth.

So, is it all about 'ego'? THAT'S MINE!!!!!! :shrug:

[scarletwoman]

13. Yeah, history means nothing. Where people have lived for hundreds of generations means nothing.

They should all just pack up and move somewhere else -- problem solved! Right?

[Mind_your_head]

14. No....I'm just saying that you are fighting over an "empty bowl"

don't just give me a knee-jerk response.

WHAT-ARE-YOU-REALLY-FIGHTING-FOR?

Define it. (don't define it for *me*. Don't even respond to *me*/this post.)

Take the emotions out of it. "What are you really fighting for? What do you hope to achieve?

Peace,
M_Y_H

[scarletwoman]

15. Whatever YOUR opinion is of that particular geographic location is irrelevant. People live there.

The people that live there want to keep living there. That's pretty much the way people are about the places they live.

Why do the Inuit, the Inupiat, the Aleuts, and assorted other Artic indigenous peoples want to keep living in THEIR lands? I mean, why would any sane person want to live in the Artic Circle? But for them, the far north -- as harsh and difficult to survive in as it is -- is their HOME.

It's their *place* on this earth, the place where they feel rooted and connected, where their history and culture give them a sense of meaning and belonging and identity.

Go propose to the Israel supporters that they "take the emotions out of it" and that they're "fighting over an empty bowl", and see how far you get. You may as well tell them that all the Israelis need to do is move somewhere else -- voila! no more problems!

Then listen to them howl that you don't support Israel's "right to exist".

History IS the crux of the matter, there's no way around it.

sw

[Mind_your_head]

16. Oh I KNOW this is true......People want to live in their "own home"

But Israel 'Never had a home" *sniff*

Perhaps they are better off? Spreading their 'seed' EVERYWHERE'?

[scarletwoman]

17. Like I said, take your argument to the Israel supporters. Just don't expect much sympathy for it.

[alarimer]

51. Well millions emigrates post-WWII.

So they are not actually ethnically from that area. But it's all squabbling over which group their imaginary sky being likes best. It's like Sweden and Norway fighting over where exactly Valhalla is. Utter mythological nonsense.

[defendandprotect]

39. It's about America wanting a foothold in ME/Oil . . . and Nixon arming ....

right wing Fundamentalists who in the end killed Rabin who was trying to

negotiate peace --- See: "Murder In The Name of God" --

Israel and US weapons production is so closely intertwined that you can

barely distinguish between them. American taxpayers finance Israel's wars and

supply the weapons-!

[Hayduke Lives]

29. There's actually a serious point to be made in that post.

That is, our collective attention has been misdirected to the entire middle east. The region truly is not of any strategic importance to us. Consider the trillions of dollars we have spent on trying to manipulate events across all of western Asia (the wider middle east). How does it serve our national interest?

Israel, for example, does little trade with us - a few cases of Maneschevits and some pistachios. They do have a nice stretch of Mediterranean beach, but so does France, so I go there instead.

The myth of the "strategic middle east region" is likewise hooey. Our oil comes from Canada and Venezuela. Let's bomb Ottawa and put a puppet government in Caracas, at least that would make some kind of sense.

My heart aches for the Palestinians and the injustice they endure...but no more or less than the people of Sudan, North Korea or wherever.

Why oh why do we follow the drama of these two breeding populations of homo sapiens (tribes?) with such rapped attention. I'm bored - and I have a fairly long attention span. It would be in the best interest of the region, I believe, to simply ignore them. Cut off funding for Israel and force them to make peace. Stop meddling in the region and let them sort it out. That is the only rational way forward.

[rrneck]

38. You underestimate the importance

of the region. We get oil from there, and more importantly, the rest of the world gets oil from there. Hegemony in the region is the brass ring that the neocons wanted. They don't care who they sell the oil to, as long as they get the money for it. Not to mention the vast untapped reserves of light sweet crude under the ground in Iraq.

[Hayduke Lives]

50. I think I understand the neocon position...

...and why they focus on the mid-east: Oil, bible stories, hegemony for hegemony's sake, and war for war's sake.

But the point I was making is, these are not my intersts. I believe there's merit in speaking that truth.

[rrneck]

52. None of us

has a dog in that fight - unless he or she is Jewish. Or Muslim. Or they use gasoline. Or they touch anything that was produced by fossil fuels (which is everything). Or they have a border surrounding an economy to defend. Or international treaties to abide by. Or a population to feed.

We don't enjoy the luxury of being able to say, "eh - fuck it", and just walk away. Unless you are an interstellar space traveler you have interests in the region of which you are not aware. The neocons just went about overseeing those interests in the wrong way for the wrong reasons. I think that truth is greater than any of our personal preferences in the matter.

[Hayduke Lives]

60. We have a duty to stop injustice everywhere

But that's where our interests stop. Mideast oil is NOT very important to us. Most of our crude comes from Nigeria, Canada and Venezuela.

I'm not saying "eh - fuck it"...I'm saying let's stop giving the region a disproportionate amount of attention. And for godssake, let's stop feeding the IDF.

[snooper2]

62. Sand, a few large rocks, 8 trees and some competing myths...

:rofl:

:rofl:

:rofl:

:rofl:

[aquart]

3. You mean give the Arabs Jerusalem and anything else they want.

Because that's the deal. Jerusalem or screw you. Although one or two of us suspect that if Jerusalem were agreed to, then suddenly a new obstacle would crop up. And another. And another.

What happened to the land that was granted to the Arabs in Partition? Why aren't they fighting for their rights to THEIR land?

[dkf]

4. Oh so this ground war is solely about Jerusalem?

I don't know how you can think the talks have advanced anywhere near just an argument on Jerusalem.

One day Israel will have more Arabs than Jews. Then it will be too late to call it a democracy.

[Truth2Tell]

8. GIVE the Arabs Jerusalem?

They only want BACK the part they live in now. It's just weird to me that you find that unreasonable.

[scarletwoman]

12. So, calling attention to groups who are working for peaceful resolutions to the I/P conflict

is unacceptable to you? You prefer right-wing neo-con/Likud militarism?

[Ken Burch]

26. There's three things that would do more to help than anything else:

1)The Israeli government acknowledging and apologizing for "Plan Dalet", and also acknowledging that there was a longstanding majority Arab population in Palestine(I.E., admitting it was never "a land without people");

2)An acceptance that the border should be the Green Line(Israel wouldn't really lose anything worth fighting for in agreeing to this);

3)A real commitment by the Israeli government to treat the Palestinian Authority as an EQUAL partner in the negotiations.

[truedelphi]

47. Can I add, end the sanctions, the curfews,

The checkpoints such that the Palestinians are shut down in their own homeland.

Quit attacking medical and food brigades, etc.

[sorval]

41. yes lets talk about partition

Aquart, as to your point about the 1947 partition:

"Arab rejection was...based on the fact that, while the population of the Jewish state was to be Jewish with the Jews owning less than 10% of the Jewish state land area, the Jews were to be established as the ruling body - a settlement which no self-respecting people would accept without protest, to say the least...The action of the United Nations conflicted with the basic principles for which the world organization was established, namely, to uphold the right of all peoples to self-determination. By denying the Palestine Arabs, who formed the two-thirds majority of the country, the right to decide for themselves, the United Nations had violated its own charter." Sami Hadawi, "Bitter Harvest."

As to the land granted to the arabs in partition, its all been annexed (or sometimes just stolen). Look at Partition era boundaries then look at boundaries today. The partition was extraordinarily badly done, and in my view the Israelis continue to this day in denying the Palestinian people the basic rights of humanity.

[blindpig]

48. What part of these maps do you not understand?

Is there a pattern here?

Your quibbling about maybes is smoke, justify those maps.

[rockymountaindem]

55. The pattern is that Egypt, Jordan and Syria kept starting wars they could not win n/t

[blindpig]

59. Actually...

Israel initiated armed conflict in the Six Day War.

If Jordan, Syria and Egypt are the culprits how is it that the Palestinians lose all of their land?

Bullshit, it ain't nothing but a land grab, ethnic cleansing.

[defendandprotect]

5. Peace loving Israelis - liberals and moderates -- need to oust ...

the right wing religious fanatics --

[OCAtheist]

11. Fantastic list

I have a some Jewish friends who recently asked if I knew of any progressive organizations that were pro-Israel, but not sharing AIPAC/ADL policies. I'll definitely pass this on.

[HamdenRice]

18. Great list! Add "Beyond the Pale: The Progressive Jewish Radio Hour" on WBAI/Pacifica nt

[LeftishBrit]

19. I understand that J-Street and Ameinu are attempting to do that.

Also see:

www.bsst.org.uk

www.allmep.org

[druidity33]

20. don't forget the Shministim...

high scool seniors being conscientious objectors and refusing to join the IDF until there are no occupied territories. Some are jailed, some have fled, more to come in this movement...


I don't have a link, or know how to support them though.

[annabanana]

21. Sadly, these sentiments will NEVER be reflected in our compromised

media... Unless we make it impossible for them to ignore it.

So take these links and send them to everyone you've ever had a political discussion with.. Mention them in LTTEs. . call in to WJ and help peace loving people get it OUT there..

Maybe, just maybe, we can get Keith or Rachel to give these efforts a shout.

[Truth2Tell]

24. "NEVER" is such negative thinking.

"Maybe someday" is more my style. :)

[Ken Burch]

25. well, actually, annabanana did say "never...UNLESS"

And then she put the responsibility squarely on our shoulders.

[leveymg]

22. AIPAC, like the Bush Admin., is not the legitimate voice of American Jews. Both need to leave

town by Noon on January 20.

As for the regime in Tel Aviv, they need to understand that there's a new Sheriff in town, and that crime will be punished.

[eridani]

23. Anti-war protests in Tel Aviv

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052326.html

"We came to condemn in the strongest possible way what is being done in Gaza," said Ramat Gan man Latif Sadri, who protested against the offensive. "The killing of innocent people and imposing a financial siege will not bring about an end to the rocket fire," he said, referring to the Palestinian rockets being fired into southern Israel over the last eight years....

The Chairman of the Balad Party, MK Jamal Zahalka, said at the rally that there is a need to "try Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister Ehud Barak, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni and IDF Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi in an international war crimes tribunal for their role in the killing of civilians in the Gaza Strip."

[democrank]

27. The slaughter is heartbreaking.

Please, please, let there be peace.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[roamer65]

30. I will support the Anti-Christ incarnate if he/she/it can solve this Israel-Palestine bullshit.

Good grief, I am sick of the back and forth bickering and killing.

[Tarc]

31. The day AIPAC is dismantled will be a great day for Middle East progress

[roamer65]

32. Defund them ALL. No more American aid for any of them.

I am sick of my tax dollars funding yet more killing.

[denisrobert]

33. It's not just the Lobby

It's also the entire slate of American Jewish organizations, which for the most part toe the line of the likudniks. It seems you're not allowed to be Jewish in America unless you're also pro-Likud. You can be as liberal as you want when it comes to American politics, but when it comes to Israel, to be Jewish is to be a right-wing maniac.

And the same is true in Canada. I'm not Jewish, but I've had a significant number of Jewish friends. All of them were out and out liberals; but mention anything related to the middle-east, and you could not distinguish them from Bill Kristol and John Bolton. The most common comment was something like: "All Arabs are dogs".

What's so fascinating about this is that this kind of knee-jerk right-wing idiocy is far from the norm in Israel itself. The Israeli media is far more balanced than the so-called secular press in Canada, the U.S., and even in most of the U.K. (The Guardian is pretty much the only mainstream paper which will show anything but the "historia official"). Israeli public opinion is also far more balanced, and far more nuanced than American public opinion, especially amongst the Jewish community.

So yes, moderate Jews should take over the "Lobby"; but they should also strive to take over their entire elite...

[Smarmie Doofus]

36. K and R. Otherwise there's no light at the end of this tunnel. nt

[Muttocracy]

34. K&R

[Jim Sagle]

35. I'll get right on that.

[Sultana]

37. That would be like moderate Muslims standing up a/g Islamists

Moderate Jews and Muslims won't be able to stop their fundies.

[scytherius]

45. Perfect. Was gonna say the same thing. n/t

nt

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

40. I have a friend who has lived in Israel, and who plans to go back

he is against the war, he is for peace, and when he moves back to Israel
he will probably be a peace activist there.

He is Jewish, but an atheist.

He has been a peace activist all of his life in the US, actively protesting
the many different wars our govt cooked up.

He lived in Israel about 10 years in the past.

He despises AIPAC.

[cascadiance]

42. Also, support "moderate" and "democratic" forces in Turkey too...

Some similar neocon forces are linked between Turkey and Israel.

It's no coincidence in my book that you have folks like Brent Scowcroft having high level positions in both AIPAC ("serving Israel"), and the ATC ("serving Turkey"). In fact these groups mostly support our defense establishment and other corporate beneficiaries to the huge amounts of military and other forms of aid that both Israel and Turkey get (along with those that benefit from that aid in those countries). Also no coincidence that Scowcroft on Qualcomm's board of directors likely gave a quick sweetheart job to U.S. Prosecutor Carol Lam before some in congress were able to get her hired back as a contractor to finish the prosecutions she was working on for some of the very corrupt arms dealing and money laundering that was going on with the likes of Duke Cunningham, Mitch Wade, Brent Wilkes, Thomas Kontogiannis, Dusty Foggo, Jerry Lewis, etc., etc.

If you've followed Ergenekon scandal in Turkey now, which is allegedly a prosecution of a coup plot by various "nationalist" (aka military) elements of the Turkish government against the "Islamic" party that's in charge now, the AKP. Rumors are that the Mossad has been involved with this, and even rumors of Cheney's name being mentioned in the indictments too.

It's really hard to know who to side with. On the one hand, you have the "secular" nationalist elements, that sidestep Democracy on so many occasions to enforce this secularism (which many Turks still want). Things like prohibiting head scarves or the fez, speaking or writing articles in Kurdish, acknowledging the Armenian genocide, and other actions that violate "Turkishness" have been clamped down on by the courts that have sided with the nationalists on many occasions.

On the other hand, you do have perhaps some valid concerns about the party voted in to power, if they get too much power, do a lot more in putting religion in government than allowing women to wear headscarves. They are helping actually rebuild the Turkish economy more so than the nationalist groups were, surprisingly enough. But also, they are allowing things like more consolidation of media, etc. under their "friend"'s control like millionare Ahmet Calik. So there are concerns there as well.

There are voices for change though in Turkey, much like these mentioned in this thread in Israel, which have been squashed on many occasions. These voices want to have more transparent and Democratic government, and side with some of the requests for more freedoms like headscarves from the Islamic AKP party, but also want to make sure that the government is free from religious control too. One of these groups is the upstart Turkish paper "Taraf", which is challenging a lot of this censorship, and is having trouble getting advertising, etc. to support it staying alive financially. Here are some articles you all should read to see how important a voice they are there to get some real "democracy" there too, and counteract both the neocons and religious extremism as well.

Note in this article where it says that Taraf's in financial trouble now:

http://www.sundayszaman.com/sunday/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=161848

...

Another Turkish newspaper going through hard times is the Taraf daily, which has uncovered many outstanding stories since it began publishing last year with the aim of making Turkey a more democratic country. “We are passing through difficult times,” was the headline of a statement on the daily’s Web site, which said the newspaper’s advertisement income was lower than ever and called on its readers to buy advertisements on its pages so that it could find a way out of the financial crisis without being obliged to lay off workers. The campaign was met with enthusiasm by readers, who lent financial support to the daily through small ads published in their names. The daily, which has drawn the ire of the Turkish military and the government, does not receive ads from big companies needed to meet its expenses because the companies are afraid of confrontations with the military and the government.

...

Cached version of article from Hurriyet on this story:

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:Q9RPAx5vsIAJ:proje.hurriyet.com.tr/NextBackNews/GetNextBackNews.aspx%3Fd%3D10458100%26s%3D1&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Bankrupt daily appeals for money from readers

ISTANBUL - Taraf daily, despite being a young newspaper with limited circulation, has become a newspaper that sets the country’s agenda. It recently started a campaign calling on its readers to give advertisements to its pages so that it could rescue itself from its current financial problems.

Controversial Turkish daily, Taraf, went with a subheading saying, "We are going bankrupt; still we give you the best," in its new promotion offering 10 classical books in a week to its readers.

Young and small but Taraf, which literally means "side," has become a newspaper that sets the agenda by addressing controversial issues. It recently started a campaign calling on its readers to give advertisements to its pages so that it could rescue itself from its current financial problems.

"We are passing through the hard times" is the headline of a statement on daily Taraf’s Web site. The newspaper’s advertisement income decreased after its famous headline "General’s Prime Minister," where it criticized the government’s pursuit of a more pro-military policy especially following the terrorist attack in Aktütün in October.

...

http://www.kurdishaspect.com/doc120908DS.html

...

Much points to a pact between the very different partners. Erdogan has been all too willing to support a campaign by military officers to curtail freedom of the press and opinion. In a dispute between the new Chief of the Turkish General Staff, Ilker Basbug, and Taraf, a small daily newspaper, the increasingly autocratic Erdogan threw his support behind the commander.

Taraf, currently Turkey's most courageous newspaper, had published documents suggesting that the general staff had learned in advance of an attack by the PKK on a military outpost near the Iraqi border. Seventeen soldiers were killed there in the Oct. 4 attack, and it has been suggested that they may have been sacrificed in an effort to spark public outrage.

Anyone who publishes such reports, General Basbug said irately, is "partly responsible for the bloodshed." He threatened to shut down the newspaper. "Be careful," Erdogan said in a warning to the journalists, noting that the "public peace" is a greater good than the freedom of the press. In November, the prime minister himself took action against the press, ordering his press office to cancel the accreditation of seven journalists working for the Dogan media conglomerate.

...

Articles on Taraf:

http://www.esiweb.org/index.php?lang=en&id=311&film_ID=10&slide_ID=6

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=156068

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taraf


Recent articles that Taraf has confronted issues on:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2009/jan/02/turkey-pressandpublishing

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=163228&bolum=100

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=162641&bolum=130



If we want to support "democratic underground" helping support Taraf as the Turkish "democratic underground" would be a very good thing for this board to do to stay within the spirit of its principles. Perhaps if we can set up some sort of paypal account to support for them, they can also provide an English language newsletter to help those outside of Turkey see more of these kind of voices visible there too, much like we need to xupport the alternative Israeli press too.

BTW, check out Arab Labor on Link TV. It is really cool that there's a comedy there with Palestinians, Arabs and Israelis all having their stories told together in a light hearted, comedic way, but yet a way that confronts many of the issues faced by Israelis and Palestinians. More work like that is needed to try and take us back from the brink that we are at with Gaza now...

[Karenina]

46. Thank you, calipendence! Excellent, informative post!

"Arab Labour" was :rofl: ! However, I fear the funniest jokes would be lost on those with, shall we say, no frame of reference.

[specimenfred1984]

43. The U.S. is a country with torture camps, spies on its own citizens, loots "investors"

rigs elections, has a gov't full of corrupt cronies and religious psychos, votes in majority against equal rights and has a banking/insurance industry that is feeding on the population via credit scams and health insurance lies.

AIPAC is about 1000th on the list of shit that matters to anyone.

[Truth2Tell]

49. The hatred for us engendered

throughout the world by our uncritical support for Israel poses a very real threat to America.

AIPAC may not be the number one problem in America, but our policy toward Israel is in the top ten, IMHO.

I would guess that if you don't even put this in your top 1000, that maybe you have some sort of ulterior motivation driving you to look away from this, or to want others to look away from it.

[Karenina]

58. It also poses a very real threat to Israel and Jews worldwide.

As could be expected there's been a rash of anti-Semitic violence on the continent in the last 24 hours... :cry:

[BrklynLiberal]

44. K&R

[StreetKnowledge]

53. I don't support the neocon positions

But I must ask - where was this when the Israelis were sitting there being shot at?

I don't agree with Israel's overkill tactics, but trying to get peace talks underway right now is useless. The Palestinians are divided, and one side will not ever negotiate. Talk to the Fatah faction, leave the Hamas side alone, let up the blockades, and let negotiations fix the mess. The Palestinians there will be better off, which will undermine Hamas' support.

[Sanctified]

54. Because it's the responsibility of Jewish Americans to control and change Israel? n/t

[Truth2Tell]

61. Because our political leaders listen to Jewish Americans

when it comes to policy toward Israel. And policy toward Israel has a real impact on all of us.

That's why.

[Sanctified]

63. Yeah just like Islamic Radicals listen to moderate Muslims.

It's not the responsibility of Jewish Americans to control our governments position on Israel, so stop trying to put the weight and responsibility on their shoulders. Our political leaders listen to the people which includes you.

[Truth2Tell]

64. Which is exactly why I suggest that WE ALL

support the groups I list in this post.

United for Peace and Justice has more members and grass roots support than AIPAC, but our Congressweasels seem to listen to AIPAC when it comes to policy towards Israel.

Maybe it's the $$$. :shrug:

[StreetKnowledge]

56. The Sad Reality of Israel and the Palestinians

Is that this crap will NEVER stop. NEVER. Even if we took away the Israelis support, they would still survive - they have more than the technology necessary to make their own weapons. They did for years.

The fact is that we have two sides, who both believe they are entitled to the land, and willing to fight to the death for it. Israel's right wing lunatics are growing in number, because they breed in far greater numbers than secular Israelis and many Israelis have given up trying to find peace. The country is paranoid, and the only way it will stop is when one side completely, systematically eliminates the other.

The Jews only had small portions of the land because the British colonial government were anti-Semites. The Arabs of course weren't willing to accept the changes to allow the Jews a homeland - even though the Arab world is bigger than the continental USA, they weren't giving up any of it. The Jews then forced it, and took it from them. The Arab world didn't even try damage control - they declared that Palestinians cannot ever be citizens of any other Arab nations, forcing them to live in squalid, ugly camps in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Egypt. Hence, over a generation, that generation came to have an intense hatred of Israel.

The Jews, fresh for having a third of their number systematically exterminated by the Nazis and their fascist allies, were not ever going to give the land back. They now have been there for 60 years, and Israel through thick and thin has gone on to build a first world nation, and a real functioning democracy. But they will not give up anything, and a generation of majority right-wing politicians and the few more moderate ones being killed (Rabin case in point) or marginalized, Israel has developed its own siege mentality.

The two sides have generations of bad blood, and millions of Palestinians, thanks to their Arab brothers, have nothing to live for except the destruction of Israel. Gaza economically is a lost cause, and most of the wealthy Palestinians left long ago. Hence, those that remain have nothing, screwed for their entire lives by their Arab brothers and the Israelis. They gotten to the point where they don't give a damn. This is why they deface the words of their God and the laws of man. They just don't care. A wise Muslim I know always says that one human is always linked to every human, and that taking an innocent life is the same as killing the entire race. If the Islamists don't fight Israel, their secular brothers will.

The Israelis, who have taken five millenia of anti-Semitism and watched millions of their families die from it, are not about to give up their one chance at a homeland. Israel is not a big, or resource-rich, or even very appealing nation from a personal perspective. But like we'd all fight for our homes, the land of Israel is home to them, and home is something you defend.

So, here we are. An endless cycle fueled by millions of people and billions of dollars, and the people on both sides long ago stopped caring about the other side. We could wash our hands of the whole thing, but they would never stop.

If we sanction the Israelis and force them to give in, the Palestinians will inevitably drive them into the Ocean. Likewise, if we give Israel carte blanche, they will eventually destroy the Palestinians.

This will only end when one side has destroyed the other. Until then, there will be no peace. Everything we can do means nothing. We cannot stop the Israelis and Palestinians from killing each other, because neither sides cares about the other side.

[misanthrope]

57. Valid point but I have one contention...

...Were one of those sides to eradicate the other, the victors would find a way to divide into camps and start fighting among themselves. All that belligerence doesn't just dissipate.