Smokers, restaurants adapt during first year of smoking ban

[onehandle]

Source: Sun-Times

A year ago, smokers were inhaling their last puffs of tobacco in their favorite watering holes and restaurants. Eateries, bars and casinos were crying foul, bracing for the drop in revenues they expected as a result when smokers were forced outside.

Non-smokers were counting the days until the statewide ban on the habit was in place. Today, those with a penchant for butts haul themselves into court to contest smoking tickets. Or they brave winter winds for the toasted taste. Casinos say they're losing money, especially near borders with neighboring states, where customers have moved across the state line to gamble because they can smoke there.

And the Legislature is still working to clear up enforcement of the ban that prohibits smoking in and within 15 feet of public places. Yet, by most accounts, it appears the Southland has adjusted to a smoke-free lifestyle, despite a rocky start, with disgruntled smokers pushed outdoors during January cold.

"They weathered the storm," said David Seaman, a Tinley Park Village trustee who is on the American Cancer Society's national board of directors. "Not all smokers are surly people. I just don't think it was quite the issue that people feared early on." Seaman and anti-smoking advocates insist the ban will reduce lung cancer cases and the number addicted. Some point to California, a pioneer in anti-smoking efforts from where studies are proving those theories.

Read more: http://www.suntimes.com/news/1360518,010409smokeban.article

[bobd0]

1. Smoking ban re: Atlantic City casinos is referenced in this article from today's Sunday Star-Ledger

This article specifically cites smoking restrictions as a cause of "loss of gamblers". One of the factors, the article claims, contributing to revenue declines for "the second straight year after 28 years of gains."

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-14/1231047444291540.xml&coll=1&thispage=1

Atlantic City has seen two big casualties of the recession in recent months. In October, MGM Mirage scuttled plans for a $5 billion casino. That followed word that Pinnacle Entertainment was tabling plans to build a $1.5 billion casino.

The developments came amid a prolonged losing streak for New Jersey's gaming industry, which saw revenues decline in 2008 for the second straight year after 28 years of gains.

"The outlook for Atlantic City is bleak," said Joseph Weinert, president of Spectrum Gaming Group, a casino consulting firm.

The recession aside, Weinert said, Atlantic City faces increased competition from Pennsylvania and a loss of gamblers because of smoking restrictions.

He said this year brings the very real possibility that five of the 11 casinos could be in some form of financial restructuring through Chapter 11 bankruptcy or deals with creditors.

Just happened to read this a few minutes ago. I don't like the comic book nonsense, particularly the final line about the Batphone. The Bush Depression is real and it's going to be tragic for many of us. And the unemployment figures cited are as fictitious as Batman. If all of the unemployed were counted, unemployment would be at least double the figures in the article.

[wolfgangmo]

2. In Minnesota

About a 2 years ago finally passed a smoking ban in public buildings as well as all secured government facilities.

At that time my wife and I, who had previously stayed away from bars/shows/restaurants/etc because of smoke started to go out regularly. And so did tons of others. On the whole things are better for the companies as they have discovered a whole new cliental and they have kept most of their smoking customers as well.

The ban will be better for most companies. The ones that only cater to alcoholic chain smokes might suffer a bit, but alcoholic chain smokers will just adapt to the circumstances. It is not as if they will stop smoking and drinking.

[WinstonSmith4740]

4. That's what happened in California.

There was the same moaning and bitching from the bar/restaurant owners, etc. Then after a year they had to admit that their revenues had gone UP, and pretty much for the same reason as you stated. Folks who didn't smoke started going out again, and there's still more non-smokers than smokers. If they're hard core smokers, they'll adjust. If it helps others quit, all the better. Let's face it. If you can't go without a cigarette for an hour while you're in a restaurant, you really need to look at what you're doing to yourself!!

[WriteDown]

12. Tell that to the European's

who have a lot lower rate of heart and pulmonary disease than their American counterparts. Second-hand smoke must be "different" over there. :sarcasm:

[onehandle]

15. Better diet, more walking, red wine.

Nice try though.

[WriteDown]

16. Sweet....

Then let's keep smoking and institute more programs to promote THOSE things.

[onehandle]

17. Ooh, you got me.

Except we already promote healthy habits.

Not smoking is also a healthy habit.

Nice try.

[WriteDown]

19. Not drinking is too....

Especially for the 10's of 1000's killed each year. Obviously, stopping that should be more of a concern.

[onehandle]

20. So you want to stop something for people's own good?

I didn't see that coming.

Half a million Americans die from cigarette smoking attributable illnesses each year.

If you want to stop something, maybe we should stop both.

[WriteDown]

23. Half a million?

From 1st hand smoke yes. I'd argue that many many more innocent bystanders are affected by drunk drivers.

[onehandle]

26. I agree. 1st hand smoke is much worse than 2nd hand smoke.

Drunk drivers are truly a scourge on our roads. Of course driving itself is a dangerous activity. A friend's 17 year old daughter died in an accident last month. Slid off a wet road, hit a brick structure, died instantly.

Of course, 2nd hand smoke is no slouch in places less dangerous than our roads:
_______________________________________________

Secondhand Smoke Fact Sheet

Secondhand smoke, also know as environmental tobacco smoke (ETS), is a mixture of the smoke given off by the burning end of a cigarette, pipe or cigar and the smoke exhaled from the lungs of smokers. It is involuntarily inhaled by nonsmokers, lingers in the air hours after cigarettes have been extinguished and can cause or exacerbate a wide range of adverse health effects, including cancer, respiratory infections, and asthma.

Secondhand smoke has been classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a known cause of cancer in humans (Group A carcinogen).

Secondhand smoke exposure causes disease and premature death in children and adults who do not smoke. Secondhand smoke contains hundreds of chemicals known to be toxic or carcinogenic, including formaldehyde, benzene, vinyl chloride, arsenic ammonia and hydrogen cyanide.

Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,400 lung cancer deaths and 22,700-69,600 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year.

Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at work are at increased risk for adverse health effects. Levels of secondhand smoke in restaurants and bars were found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers and 2 to 6 times higher than in office workplaces.

Since 1999, 70 percent of the U.S. workforce worked under a smoke-free policy, ranging from 83.9 percent in Utah to 48.7 percent in Nevada.6 Workplace productivity was increased and absenteeism was decreased among former smokers compared with current smokers.

Nineteen states - Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Rhode Island, Washington and Vermont - as well as the District of Columbia prohibit smoking in almost all public places and workplaces, including restaurants and bars. Montana and Utah prohibit smoking in most public places and workplaces, including restaurants; bars will go smokefree in 2009. New Hampshire prohibits smoking in some public places, including all restaurants and bars. Four states - Florida, Idaho, Louisiana and Nevada - prohibit smoking in most public places and workplaces, including restaurants, but exempt stand-alone bars. Fifteen states partially or totally prevent (preempt) local communities from passing smokefree air ordinances stronger than the statewide law. Nebraska and Oregon have passed legislation prohibiting smoking in almost all public places and workplaces, including restaurants and bars, but the laws have not taken effect yet.

Secondhand smoke is especially harmful to young children. Secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year, and causes 430 sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) deaths in the United States annually.

Secondhand smoke exposure may cause buildup of fluid in the middle ear, resulting in 790,000 physician office visits per year.10 Secondhand smoke can also aggravate symptoms in 400,000 to 1,000,000 children with asthma.

In the United States, 21 million, or 35 percent of, children live in homes where residents or visitors smoke in the home on a regular basis.12 Approximately 50-75 percent of children in the United States have detectable levels of cotinine, the breakdown product of nicotine in the blood.

Research indicates that private research conducted by cigarette company Philip Morris in the 1980s showed that secondhand smoke was highly toxic, yet the company suppressed the finding during the next two decades.

The current Surgeon General’s Report concluded that scientific evidence indicates that there is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke. Short exposures to secondhand smoke can cause blood platelets to become stickier, damage the lining of blood vessels, decrease coronary flow velocity reserves, and reduce heart rate variability, potentially increasing the risk of heart attack.

For more information on secondhand smoke, please review the Tobacco Morbidity and Mortality Trend Report as well as our Lung Disease Data publication in the Data and Statistics section of our website at www.lungusa.org, or call the American Lung Association at 1-800-LUNG-USA (1-800-586-4872).

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

[WriteDown]

29. There is only one problem with that....

And I agree that 2nd hand smoke is not great for you, just not the boogeyman it is portrayed as.

No one has been able to site the criteria and controls used in these so-called "scientific" studies that prove the info form lungusa.org. Another huge elephant in the room is this study which is still to date the largest study ever done on second-hand smoking.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=/arch...

Also, it is very interesting to note publication bias on passive smoking.

http://www.ama-assn.org/public/peer/7_15_98/jpv71013.ht...

[onehandle]

31. Your links go nowhere. Regardless, you've resorted to cherry picking studies...

...that go against the majority of studies and common knowledge.*

I'm done with you.

*I assume because your links are bad.

[WriteDown]

33. Try these....weird

http://www.forces.org/articles/files/passive1.htm

http://www.ama-assn.org/public/peer/7_15_98/jpv71013.htm

[High Plains]

42. Seriously, how do they know how many people die from second-hand smoke?

Sez the fact sheet: "Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,400 lung cancer deaths and 22,700-69,600 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year."

How do they know that? I mean, it's not like it's listed as cause of death...seriously.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. They don't know

It's just another use of twisted statistics and junk science.

[TahitiNut]

63. Haven't you heard? First-hand smoke is harmless.

All smokers die from the second-hand smoke from their own smoking. :sarcasm:

[Lionel Mandrake]

21. Drinking: 10's of 1000's; Smoking: 100's of 1000's

Which is more of a concern?

[WriteDown]

28. May want to read up...

Check out how many drivers are actually drunk on the roads. And how many deaths it actually causes. Compare this to 2nd hand smoke and 3rd hand smoke.

http://www.ahealthyme.com/topic/drunkdriving

[dflprincess]

43. If we were serious about promoting health

everyone in the country would have access to healthcare.

[roody]

24. Go have a smoke and settle down.

[Kalyke]

27. So let's ban fat instead of smoking.

Obesity is the number one cause of heart disease - not smoking.

[onehandle]

30. Yeah, I addressed that absurdity starting with post # 16. nt

[Statistical]

41. You didn't exactly....

You state govt is working to PROMOTE healthy eating. That isn't exactly the same thing.

Obesity kills more people in the US than any other preventable condition.

If govt truly wanted to keep people healthy (at expense of being big brother) then the #1 thing would be strict enforcement of diet and caloric intake.
Period. Nothing else the govt could do would save as many people.

Even better it than the direct # of deaths saved would be the overall increase in health in the country reducing cost of healthcare.

Now I am not advocating the govt controlling diet but I also think smoking ban is stupid.

If making people smoke outdoors is such a good idea then....
Why not make people drink outside in the cold too? It should reduce the amount people drink thus less drunks of the road and more people saved from drunk drivers?

[Kalyke]

48. Hee hee...

You actually shot that person down.

I never get sick - except for the sinus infections I get from living in East Tennessee. It's a condition that everyone around me gets, as well - smoking and non-smoking folk. If anything, the smoking outside bit has made me thinner and hardier. People don't smoke or drink or eat less if they're out-of-doors.

I love your post. :)

[Maru Kitteh]

60. Here is one example of what smoking caused sinus cancer can do

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5941887,00.jpg



You roll those dice with every fucking cig. You're probably not stupid enough to believe that it doesn't matter that you smoke. You know it does. Not only that - you smell like shit.

Just stop.

[Kalyke]

47. No.... actually, you proved my point.

MYOB.

[Foolacious]

51. Europeans who smoke, smoke much less

It's done more as a social thing than an addictive thing... in part because European cigarettes aren't laced with as much evil crap (designed to make them more addictive) as North American cigarettes.

[L0oniX]

3. Ask me if I care about gamblers. pffft ...smell it

[Towlie]

5. Here's the part I don't like:

"Seaman and anti-smoking advocates insist the ban will reduce lung cancer cases and the number addicted."

But the ban on smoking in public places is ostensibly to protect non-smoking victims of smokers! If that's the sincere objective, why even mention the effect on the health of smokers themselves in defense of this law? What does that have to do with anything?

On the other hand, if the real objective is to protect smokers from themselves, why not be honest and admit it? The statement exposes a poorly hidden agenda. If that's what this is really about, why not realize that there's no logic behind limiting the ban to public places? Why not then outlaw smoking altogether? Let's not be hypocrites in our lawmaking.

[onehandle]

6. ignore. nt

[madmom]

7. In Ohio, the experience here is the restaurants are far MORE crowded.

[Bandit]

8. My home town went smoke free two years ago

One restaurant tried to get around the ban by fixing up a storeroom as an eating area and making it a Private Club charging a penny a year dues. He was sure he was going to be hurt by the ban because it was a local hangout for the working croud. After only six months he found that no one wanted to stay in the smoking section. It had cost the owner about five thousand dollars to make the room up to code for the public to sit and eat in. Now that room has been converted back into a storeroom and his place is as busy as ever and Smoke Free

[rvablue]

57. Off Topic: Your sig line is jaw-dropping....are there no boundaries to the Shrub's stupidity? n/t

[quidam56]

9. Where are all the anti smokers who didn't want to breathe tainted air ?

CO2 is choking the globe, you all are breathing that air. http://www.wisecountyissues.com I found it quite amusing when California banned smoking, yet China is polluting California with tons of CO2.

[domlaw]

11. Hey

It's everyones right to drive their SUV....park it outside a store....leave it running while they shop inside and glare distastefully at the smokers huddled outside.

After all smoking is bad.

[Maru Kitteh]

62. It's so damn sweet that the two of you found each other. Now you can both breathe the FREE

REPUBLICan air together, hand in hand.

[russspeakeasy]

10. Immediate ban on all foods with fat and a ban on alcohol...

Tax all fat people $5.00 per month for every pound they are
overweight. Execute all people who are caught driving drunk. 1
year in maximum security prison for people not using their
seat belts. 8 years in prison for all parents who don't have
health insurance for their children. 33% interest on all
college loans. Prohibit bankruptcy; go to debtors prison.
60 lashes if you criticize the government. No listening to
music I don't like...$500.00 fine, to go to a hearing aid
trust fund, run by the government. If you don't vote in any
local, state or federal election, you and your family must
leave the country within 15 days.
If you miss church 2 Sundays in a row; carry a 150 pound cross
on your back for 90 days, 24 hours per day..YOU MUST ADAPT !!!

[Missy Vixen]

32. You've fixed it all, haven't you? n/t

[Enthusiast]

13. They should ban sugar filled soft drinks. nt

[domlaw]

14. And cute puppies nt

[ChoralScholar]

68. done.

Hardly any even have sugar.

HFCS anyone?

[Politicalboi]

18. I can see banning cigs

In restaurants and some public buildings but not bars and casinos. It should be up to the business owner to decide what they want.

[Hobarticus]

22. I'm a bar owner and business has increased

Sad to say, smokers are in the minority and non-smokers now like going out more. I've had people tell me as much. Haven't seen any smokers flat-out stop coming, they just stand outside and burn 'em.

[Kalyke]

25. And, in Tennessee, smoking bans have KILLED the restaurant business.

Every time my husband and I go out, we see people fleeing from restaurants the minute the meal is completed because they can no longer smoke after the meal. In Tennessee, bars and pubs who serve only guests 21 and over are still allowed to have smoking; therefore, people hot-foot it over to the pubs to do their after-dinner drinking.

What does that mean? Lower restaurant bills, less tips and dead restaurants after 10 p.m.

Let the business owners and employees decide. Most restaurant workers I know (and I know tons since my ex-husband and best friend are in the business) smoke. They wouldn't care to work in a place where people sit and drink and smoke becasue they also smoke and they'd enjoy the bigger tips.

Those who don't want to work in a smoking establishment could put their applications in at the restaurants that are non-smoking.

But, I'm willing to bet the smoking ones would provide the workers with more tips.

P.S. To prove my point:

Memphis restaurateur Wight Boggs, executive advisor to the Memphis Restaurant Association, said the law has been a mixed bag for restaurants in the city. “Some that decided to go 21 and over are going great. But restaurants that could not change to over 21 because they have families coming in during the day and at dinner have really been hurt by it in their late-night business. They’ve had to change the way they do business because the after-10 business is just not there anymore.

“But some restaurants have benefited from it and some have not. We were significantly hurt in several of our restaurants that cater to the late night crowd,” said Boggs, whose family owns the seven Huey’s restaurants in Greater Memphis.

She said she doubts the state legislature will alter the law to allow restaurants to permit smoking after 10 p.m. but admit under-21 customers the rest of the day. “It’s our position, the restaurant association’s position, that it should be left to individual owners to decide whether to be smoke-free and then the patrons would choose whether to go there.”

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/oct/01/its-been-one-year-restaurants-went-smoke-free-tenn/

(At least they interviewed a real-live restaurant owner instead of quoting stats).

[onehandle]

34. "At least they interviewed a real-live restaurant owner instead of quoting stats"

Because stats are so unreliable.

Who else doesn't trust stats?

Oh, right. President Bush.

This place cracks me up.

[Kalyke]

49. You crack me up.

You think math is equal to reality.

And... well... you'd be WRONG.

I could interview and pick and choose whatever I want and have stats to "prove" my point.

The reality is that I see the point every time I go out - and I don't get to often with two small children - but when I do, I see exactly what this restaurateur is saying. I even arrived at the "magical" 10 p.m. figure well before reading the story. I Googled it AFTER I made the initial post and didn't include 10 p.m. in my search!!!

Reality is reality. Math is what the statisticians want you to make it.

[PVnRT]

54. So now, on DU, math is not real, only what you choose to believe

Wow.

[domlaw]

56. Someone once said you could create your own reality

Who was that again LOL

[Maru Kitteh]

64. You are very a young smoker, aren't you.

It's rhetorical, that's why I didn't use a ?.

Be bigger, be smarter, be better than the fuckers that addicted you. Prove. Them. Wrong.

Break free.

[Paladin]

35. Cigarette Smoking Is A Destructive, Smelly, Inconsiderate Practice.

Public support and legal protection of it should be minimal......

[domlaw]

36. So are a ton of other things

People who wear too much perfume
People who wear clothes that have been washed in heavily scented detergent
People who have body odor
People who spit
People who chew gum
People who don't wash their hands after going to the washroom

I could go on and on.

And before you say that none of these can kill people....take a long hard look at that spitting one.

[WriteDown]

37. What about people who leave their house with the flu?

I imagine that has to be WAY up there :).

[domlaw]

38. There ya go

I will say that I smoke but am very considerate of others. However to lump us in as uncaring / louts while ignoring the multitude of sins commited by others is...well you can figure out the rest.

[WriteDown]

39. What's sad is that....

I am not a smoker in the least, but when I go to a bar, I go knowing full well what to expect.

[Paladin]

44. What I Was Referring To Was Public, Intrusive Smoking.

I'll make full allowances for considerate smokers. Smoking's one of the few bad habits I've managed to avoid over the years....

[domlaw]

45. Oh no you were not.

LOL....you were doing the holier than thou routine.

But I still love you.

[CAG]

52. Smokers do all of those things too, its not mutually exclusive

[domlaw]

55. No one is saying that it isn't

[CAG]

58. but a smoker who also "has body odor" is still putting

me at greater risk and someone who isn't smoking and has body odor, plus he/she will be contributing GREATLY to increase my health care insurance premiums when my health insurer has to pay for the COPD, chronic bronchitis, heart disease, and lung cancer.

I work at a health care facility and see it EVERY DAY.

[CAG]

59. correction; me at greater risk THAN someone who isn't smoking

[1percenter]

40. 40% drop in cardiac deaths in Pueblo CO

I am a nicotine addict and on and off smoker.
I am also a health care worker, so I was shocked to see the results of this 3 year study in Pueblo, CO that saw a 40% drop in cardiac deaths after their smoking ban went into effect.
In addition, neighboring cities w/ no smoking bans saw no change in cardiac deaths.
More studies would be good, but this is a pretty convincing initial study pointing to banning second-hand smoke exposure opportunities.

[Kalyke]

50. Pure, unmitigated BULLSHIT.

I don't believe it.

Sorry... I don't.

[Foolacious]

53. Okay... I don't believe YOU exist.

Sorry, I just don't. Just... because. I don't want to. So there.

[Maru Kitteh]

65. THE EARTH IS FLAT!

THE UNIVERSE ROTATES AROUND - - - YOU!!

IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT - IT ISN'T SO!

[CarolT]

66. 40% drop in cardiac deaths in Pueblo CO

It's all a lie. The death rates from AMI in Pueblo actually ROSE the year after the smoking ban. Those anti-smoker frauds only claimed that

the rates of HOSPITALIZATION for AMI declined, and they could create a false impression of a decline merely by being too free with

admissions (and raking in extra money for it) beforehand, and then magically reduce the admission rate by tightening up the policy.

http://www.smokershistory.com/etsheart.html#Pueblo

Congratulations, sucker, you fell for their cheap shabby trick!

[Joe Fields]

61. smoking ban in KC. Casinos exempt. Oh yeah!!!

When the casinos cave, they won't get anymore of my money.

[CarolT]

67. Smokers, restaurants adapt during first year of smoking ban

It's all founded on deliberate, systematic scientific fraud. The anti-smokers are guilty of flagrant scientific fraud for ignoring more than 50 studies, which show that human papillomaviruses cause over ten times more lung cancers than they pretend are caused by secondhand smoke. Passive smokers are more likely to have been exposed to this virus, so the anti-smokers' studies, because they are all based on nothing but lifestyle questionnaires, have been cynically DESIGNED to falsely blame passive smoking for all those extra lung cancers that are really caused by HPV.

http://www.smokershistory.com/hpvlungc.htm

The anti-smokers have committed the same type of fraud with every disease they blame on smoking and passive smoking, as well as ignoring other types of evidence that proves they are lying, such as the fact that the death rates from asthma have more than doubled since their movement began.

http://www.smokershistory.com/newviews.htm