Of protest songs and war toys...

[1monster]

My sixteen-year-old son is always telling me how much better the protest songs are from his generation than they are from all other generations, espcially my generation.

I have to admit that I don't really enjoy the protest music he listens to. Most of it sounds like nonmusical screaming to me and even the ones that start out with a nice tuneful opening quickly degenerate into something that sounds like a rumble betweein two rival street gangs.

But you don't argue with a teenage boy. Even about whether the grass is green.

Well, one day while driving him home from some after school event, for no known reason, I started singing LITTLE PLAY SOLDIERS, the Brothers Four song (also done by the Kingston Trio) from the sixties.

I'd just finished the "little white crosses" verse when my son interupted me.

"That's a HORRIBLE song!" he protested in shocked tones.

"Yes, it is," I agreed.

"Why would anyone write a song like that?"

"It was a protest song, and it was very effective."

"But why?"

"Back when I was a kid, in the sixties, war toys were a big thing. Little boys were always being given war toys. Toy armored tanks, toy machine guns, toy army jeeps, even toy grenades.

"That song was not just an antiwar protest, it was part of a movement to get the war toys off the shelves. It helped parents realize that war toys were predisposing children towards war.

"And it worked. You don't see war toys in the stores anymore. Even G.I. Joe took a big hit.

"Protest songs at their best are not just vehicles to express anger at injustice. They help people visualize the consequences of injustice and prompt them to act..."

He didn't have much to say about it, but, this happened a week or two before Christmas and I haven't heard one word since then about how much better his generations' protest songs are than mine.

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LITTLE PLAY SOLDIERS
Martin Cooper

Two little soldiers, their games are such fun, each with his helmet and little toy gun,
Pretending their lying on some battlefield dead after their tucked away safe in their bed.

Chorus:
Little play soldiers if only you knew what kind of battles are waiting for you.

Quiet, don't disturb all that innocence of youth. Tell them not to lie but never tell them the truth
That men will fall down while little boys grow but little play soldiers are too busy to know.

(Chorus)

Little white crosses and their rows are so long. How will it end if you don't know it's wrong?
Little play soldiers never know why, we love them and kiss them and then send them to die.

(Chorus)

Two little soldiers, their games are such fun, each with his helmet and little toy gun,
Soon they will lie on some battlefield dead 'stead of tucked away safe in their bed.

(Chorus)

All you little soldiers, if only you knew, what kind of battles are waiting for you.

[taterguy]

1. Two biggest selling video games: Halo and Grand Theft Auto

Maybe you don't see GI Joes because toys have evolved.

[1monster]

2. Could be, but neither of those are in my home and my kid plays video games all the time...

Mostly stuff like Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy...

And in the seventies, those war toys were off the shelves. Video games were still things in the future. In the late seventies video games were things you played in an arcade. Pac Man, Asteroids, Caterpillar, etc. Intellivision and Atari began making in home video game players.

The violent games didn't start coming out till later.

I never said that the violence purveyors never tried again.

[taterguy]

3. Your post was about the general effectiveness of songs

You can't draw a conclusion from just your own actions

[1monster]

4. Taterguy, I never said the victories of the seventies would be perpetual...

We got the war toys off the shelves in the seventies...

That didn't mean the the violence purveyors would never try again.

I think you took the wrong message from my post.

But, then again, maybe you are sixteen and one of those guys with whom argument is futile.

[taterguy]

5. I'm somone who takes dinner breaks and doesn't like people just making shit up

Little Play Soldiers came out in 1965

GI Joes declined in popularity a decade later in the 70s.

It wasn't based on a folk song. It had to do with events in general.

Maybe you could blame/credit the Kingston Trio for the popularity of automobiles since they frightened people away from mass transit with the song about the MTA.

[1monster]

6. Did you miss the part about it was part of the movement? That movement went on for a very long

time. And the version I heard was not The Kingston Trios. It was The Brothers Four which came out later.

It wasn't just all one song and I didn't say it was...

Nevermind. I don't need people like you, who seem to delight in being obnoxious, in my life.

[taterguy]

7. You don't need people who call you on your bullshit

The Self-Affirmation Society is next door

ps: I just looked it up. The Brothers Four version also came out in 1965.

[1monster]

10. My memory trumps your research.

In Their Time: A History of Feminism in Western Society -

by Marlene LeGates - 2001 - Social Science - 406 page

... campaigning against children's war toys, holding international peace ... in the mid-1960s through the civil rights movement and Vietnam War protests and ...

books.google.com/books?isbn=0415930987...

The toys were off the shelves in the 1970s. Did you think it happened over night? :eyes:

[taterguy]

12. GI Joes got replaced by Star Wars toys in the Seventies

Oh wait, Star Wars

Yes, there were plenty of war toys on the shelves in the 70s.

They just didn't sell GI Joes because he reminded people too much of an unpleasant jungle conflict that America lost.

[seabeyond]

8. I am 13, and i can appreciate both generations of protest songs

In the 60's and 70's, songs often were protesting vietnam war, tradition and the government. Most songs I listen to are the same way. There are plenty of good protest bands, like Rage Against The Machine, Rise Against and Papa Roach. They all challenge the same ideas, but just under a differant format. The point of protest songs is the challenge the last generation, and so I think that the whole reason we listen to them is it is not YOUR music. That is probably why you listened to The Who, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan and Black Sabbath. Your parents probably thought that was inappropriate or loud and obnoxious. I do enjoy most 70's and 80's music too, so i am very open in opinion.

[1monster]

9. I appreciate your view... but I never listened to those guys either... Bob Dylan's songs

were great, but I never cared for his voice.

I very much prefer folk music protest songs. One of the best is "The Cruel War is Raging". That one has been around at least since the American Revolutionary War.

I listen to a great deal of popular music done by today's writers and singers. I just can't stand heavy metal!

[seabeyond]

11. i understand

Heavy metal is loud and a bit of an aquired taste