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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:42 PM
Original message
On Obama’s Choice of Sanjay Gupta for Surgeon General
There are several choices that President-Elect Obama has made since his election victory that I have not been happy about. I single out this one to post about because it involves an area of work – public health – that I have trained and worked in for more than 30 years and because, as a medical officer in the Food and Drug administration, my work is likely to be significantly affected by the policies of our next Surgeon General.


Gupta’s qualifications for the job

According to the Office of the Surgeon General’s website:

The Surgeon General serves as America's chief health educator by providing Americans the best scientific information available on how to improve their health and reduce the risk of illness and injury…

As such, the Surgeon General is considered to be the chief public health officer of the United States, which is quite a major responsibility because, as I note in my book, “The purpose of public health is to preserve and improve the health of the population to whom it is responsible”.

Public Health is a sub-specialty of medicine that requires four years of additional training after completing the requirements for a doctorate of medicine degree. Of the six jobs that I’ve held since I received my Public Health certification in 1980, I think it’s fair to say that I would have been hired for not a single one of them without my Public Health training and certification.

Yet Dr. Gupta is being nominated for the most important public health position in our nation, though he has received no training in public health. He is a neurologist. He may be an excellent neurologist for all I know. But without training in public health, I don’t see what qualifies him to be the nation’s chief public health officer.

John Conyers made a similar point, urging fellow Democrats to sign a letter to Obama stating that:

It is not in the best interests of the nation to have someone like this who lacks the requisite experience needed to oversee the federal agency that provides crucial health care assistance to some of the poorest and most underserved communities in America.


Disparaging of one of the most important public health films in our country

Michael Moore’s film “Sicko” is one of the most important public health films available in our country, in my opinion. I say that because it demonstrates, in a way that makes it easy for ordinary people to understand, some of the major problems with the health care system (or lack thereof) in our country. These include the extremely high and largely unnecessary cost of health care, and a for-profit insurance industry, which together have led to 47 million uninsured American citizens.

What makes Moore’s film so important is that it helps to provide the political impetus for the creation of the first universal national health care system our country has ever had.

Yet Dr. Gupta, in his role as medical correspondent and consultant for CNN, led the effort to disparage that film in ways that were unfair and inaccurate. The gist of his hit piece can be seen by looking at the beginning and the end of it. He starts off:

Moore presents a lot of facts throughout the movie. But do they all check out? "Keeping Them Honest," we did some digging…

Then he commences to throw a bunch of criticisms at Moore’s film which are trivial at best, and worse yet, misleading and inaccurate. And he ends with:

But no matter how much Moore fudged the facts, and he did fudge some facts, there's one everyone agrees on. The system here should be far better.

I do have to give him credit for at least acknowledging that our health care system should be far better. But that does not begin to justify his unjustly critical and inaccurate portrayal of Moore’s film. Michael Moore did NOT fudge facts in his film. Gupta, on behalf of CNN was the only one doing the fudging… or making honest mistakes. In either case, the whole critique was petty and inaccurate and not at all worthy of a Surgeon General of our country. Here are the major examples:

Cuba has worse health care than the United States
Gupta said the following during his “fact check” of “Sicko”:

(Moore says) the United States slipped to number 37 in the world's health care systems. It's true. ... Moore brings a group of patients, including 9/11 workers, to Cuba and marvels at their free treatment and quality of care. But hold on – that WHO list puts Cuba's health care system even lower than the United States, coming in at #39.

That is a terribly misleading statement on two accounts. First of all, it implies that Moore tried to hide the fact that the health care system of the United States is rated by the World Health Organization (marginally) better than that of Cuba. But in fact, Cuba’s ranking of #39 was prominently displayed in “Sicko’, as noted here:


And secondly, Cuba is a poor country. Consequently, their citizens spend on a per capita basis less than twenty times what U.S. citizens spend. And yet, their health care system is rated only marginally worse than ours, and all of their citizens have access to health care.

Grossly misquoting “Sicko” on the cost of health care in Cuba
Here’s another one. Gupta said:

Moore asserts that the American health care system spends $7,000 per person on health. Cuba spends $25 dollars per person. Not true. But not too far off. The United States spends $6,096 per person, versus $229 per person in Cuba.

That statement is also misleading on two accounts. First, “Sicko” did not say that Cuba spends $25 per person. It said $251 per person. Gupta later had to admit to that mistake (blaming it on a transcription error). And secondly, Moore’s figure of $7,000 per person for costs in the U.S. was based on U.S. government projections for 2006. And even if Moore had chosen to go with Gupta’s older figure of $6,096 per person, that would have hardly changed the basic point of Moore’s message, which is that health care per person in the U.S. is tremendously more expensive than in Cuba.

Inaccurate statement about longevity
Gupta claimed that Americans live longer than Cubans.

But according to the 2006 United Nations Human Development Report's human development index, life expectancy in the United States was 77.5 years, compared to 77.6 years in Cuba.

Misleading statement about waiting times
Gupta said:

Americans have shorter wait times than everyone but Germans when seeking non-emergency elective procedures, like hip replacement, cataract surgery, or knee repair.

That was true of the six countries surveyed in the study that Gupta referred to, but also very misleading. First, Gupta’s statement applies only to elective procedures. When it comes to patients who are actually sick, the United States is near the top of the list with regard to waiting times.

Furthermore, one of main reasons why the United States is able to prevent waiting times from becoming longer than they are is that tens of millions of Americans don’t receive the health care that they need. That applies not only to the 47 million uninsured Americans, but also to tens of millions of other Americans who don’t seek the health care they need because of insufficient coverage by their insurance companies.

Saying that Moore implied that citizens of other countries don’t pay for health care with their taxes
Gupta and his guest “expert” made a big point out of claiming that “Sicko” implied that health care is “free” in other countries, in that taxpayer money isn’t used to pay for it. In his televised debate with Michael Moore, Gupta said:

I mean France is drowning in taxes. They're running a $15.6 billion debt. I mean it's very hard to pay for this sort of thing. And to just call it free and say it's free, I think, makes it very – it's murky, Michael, at best. And I think that's what I have difficulty with when you're trying to really advance a scenario here where we can get health care for everybody.

The idea that “Sicko” tried to imply that taxpayer money isn’t used to pay for health care is rather absurd on the face of it. But any possible question on that account was dispelled when Moore responded to Gupta by pointing out that Gupta’s “France is drowning in taxes” line was right out of “Sicko” itself. Then he asked Gupta, “Don’t you agree?” And Gupta just avoided the question:

No. Let me – you would have to agree that people would walk away from your film with the perception that health care is free in Canada.

False information about Gupta’s guest “expert”
An article in Media Matters for America demonstrates how Gupta misrepresented the affiliations of his guest “expert” who helped him “debunk” Moore’s film: Here is a summary:

After “Sicko” director Michael Moore said that CNN's “Sicko” fact-check "healthcare expert" Paul Keckley is "a person from a think tank group who is a big Republican contributor," CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta asserted that Keckley's "only affiliation" is with Vanderbilt University.” Gupta continued, "We checked it, Michael. We checked his conflict of interest. We do ask those questions."

Gupta was wrong again. Keckley has contributed $8,500 to Republican candidates for Congress, and he is indeed associated with a think tank – He is the executive director of the Deloitte Center for Health Solution, of which Tommy Thompson is a chairman.


Some final words about Gupta’s fitness to be Surgeon General

The many errors that Gupta made in his criticism of Michael Moore’s great film, as well as the pettiness and trivialness of those criticisms, cast serious doubt on his fitness to be our next Surgeon General, in my opinion. Yes, anyone can make mistakes. But Gupta was highly reluctant to admit to his mistakes, as demonstrated in his debate with Moore on CNN. And furthermore, subsequent identification of e-mails shows that CNN and Gupta had the correct information in their hands prior to airing the false information.

What’s even more important than the misleading nature and inaccuracy of Gupta’s criticisms is the nature of the film that CNN and Gupta chose to disparage. Why should CNN and Gupta attack a film that exposed the greed of the insurance industry and the effect that greed has had on the health of the American people? There was nothing there to attack.

The great importance of an independent press stems mainly from our need to have them expose the crimes of our government, not films that shine a light on our social problems. Where was CNN when the Bush administration’s obviously false claims of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq led us into a disastrous war? If Sanjay Gupta is so interested in exposing the truth, why doesn’t he do a piece on the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis we’ve killed and wounded during the course of our invasion and occupation?

President Obama will presumably be leading an effort to enact the first national health care plan in U.S. history that makes health care available to all Americans. Why should he pick as one of his major spokespersons for that plan someone who did a hatchet job on a film that could serve as an invaluable tool in explaining to the American people why we need such a plan?

Dr. Gupta is a medical doctor who specialized as a neurosurgeon, and he is a smooth talking television personality. But he is not qualified, either by his medical training, his carelessness with crucial facts, or his ties to the corporate news media to be our next Surgeon General. What good is all the smooth talking in the world if the content of the message is all wrong?
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Great Post, Thanks!
Gupta is an unrepentant bald-faced liar. Nothing good can come of dealing with that sort.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. What can I say? except
Rick Warren, Tim Kaine,Ken Salazar (add him to the list)
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
81. Dennis Blair, Larry Summers
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #81
110. Vilsack, Emmanuel
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 05:02 PM by mitchtv
.Gates
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. Eric Holder
and the hits keep on coming.
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rwheeler31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. Educate him he is a good communicator.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Did you watch the interview on Larry King with Gupta and Moore?
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 11:55 PM by Fumesucker
Gupta wouldn't even admit he stole Moore's line "France is drowning in taxes"..

Not educable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR2U_SAWHdQ

At 7:30 Gupta says France is "drowning in taxes" and implies Moore didn't mention high French taxes in the film Sicko.

At 7:50 Michael says "that's my line".
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
54. Right, Fumesucker! Gupta's
problem is ideological. He believes in big corporations at the expense of the consumer. Very simple.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
100. He is a doctor
Which makes him a scientist of sorts.

As a person trained in science, he should already KNOW to get an education on an issue before presenting it publicly as an authority.

He violated the principles of his profession when he did that piece.

That is really all I need to know about him as far as his qualifications for SG. He cannot be trusted to be ethical or honest.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #100
120. A dr. of bullshit.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
105. Your missing the point. Good communicator or not he was not telling the truth. Why?
He appears to have a strong bias. He rates a zero in my book.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
122. talk is talk........We do not have time to educate...only ACT!!! Pharmaceuticals
WILL NOT RULE!!!!!
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. Can you name a surgeon general who has had those additional four years of training?
Pretty sure neither Koop nor Elders did.

As fare as is his complaints about Sicko, he's up for the Surgeon General job. Not replacing Roger Ebert on At The Movies.

Complaints against Gupta re: Sicko are as trivial and silly as Gupta's original complaints against Sicko.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Dishonesty is trivial and silly?
And your crack about Roger Ebert is pretty trivial itself.
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yes, it's trivial and silly.
This whole debate about Gupta is trivial and silly.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Healthcare is as serious as a heart attack..
Dishonesty about healthcare is every bit as serious as dishonestly about war.

Do you think lying us into a war was trivial and silly too?
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Oh, absolutely.
Which is why all this crap about Gupta is so stupid.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
102. Why do you love Gupta so much?
Or are you just trolling?
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MNBrewer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. DOesn't that imply that his nomination is also trivial and silly?
I mean, he has been nominated for a government post. Debate is to be expected.
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. I'd love to have honest debate.
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MNBrewer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. THen maybe it's up to you to start it.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
86. here you go..
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #11
57. It is not trivial!
Gupta has parroted the corporate message. He believes in the status quo. He is all for huge profits for the insurance industry and big Pharma, at the expense of the consumer. No way is this trivial. You are a stealth Republican!
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
106. Bullshite. Obama choose Gupta. With all the excellent candidates available
he choose some one that deliberately lied and acted as a shill for CNN the right wing network. Michael Moore is biased and makes no bones about it. He might even fudge facts to make a point. But why would Gupta fudge facts? What point is he trying to make?

This is not trivial. Obama choose a liar for a reason.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. I don't see how you can say that Gupta's dishonest criticisms of Sicko
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 12:17 AM by Time for change
are not relevant to his choice as Surgeon General. Do you not think that those criticisms reflect on his basic honesty or concern about health care in our country -- and do you not think that those traits are highly relevant to the responsibilities of our Surgeon General?

With regard to the qualifications needed for Surgeon General, here is a statement from a previous Executive Director of the American Public Health Association:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3342364

The American Public Health Association firmly believes that the health interests of the nation are best served only when the US Public Health Service is headed by a Surgeon General who is a clearly qualified, specially trained, broadly experienced community health professional of demonstrated expertise and recognized ability. Long-standing tradition and specific provisions of federal law have helped assure such leadership by requiring that the Surgeon General by appointed for fixed terms from the commissioned core of the USPHS professional officers...

Your example of Koop is a good one and an exception. He had little or no public health experience or training, and his appointment was widely challenged on that basis, and yet he turned out to be a very good Surgeon General. Exceptions to the rule do occur. But why choose someone with little or no experience in the field for which they will be responsible when there are so many good and qualified people available. It's a little like choosing an Attorney General without a law degree.

But with Gupta it's not just his lack of relevant experience -- His dishonest hit job on Moore's film, at the behest of CNN, casts serious doubt on his motivations as well.
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. His criticisms of Sicko were subjective.
Moore, or anyone else, has failed to offer any substantive rebuttal of Gupta's comments other than a misplaced decimal point, which was corrected and admitted, and failure to check on conflicts of interests, which I'm willing to bet Gupta was not hired to do. Both of those are trivial, and in no way mean that Gupta is somehow the enemy of healthcare.

"Your example of Koop is a good one"

Well then I'm glad that's settled.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Moore shot down every single criticism of Sicko by Gupta
Go ahead, watch the interview, Moore owned Gupta and Gupta wouldn't even admit he stole Moore's line from the film while trying to imply that Moore didn't mention high French taxes in the film.

Dishonest to the core.
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. No, he didn't. I've seen Moore's line by line rebuttal.
He agrees with Gupta on nearly every point.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. No, Gupta agrees with Moore
After he got his ass handed to him by Moore..

Check out Gupta's microexpression at 7:50 into the Larry King interview I posted, Gupta looks like someone poked him in the butthole but he still won't admit Moore was correct, what a jerk.

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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #23
66. Actually Moore did post an open letter...
in which he went ONE BY ONE through Gupta's misrepresentations and lies during their "debate."

If you thick that debate regarding the post of Surgeon General, when health care has became one of the main issues regarding the American people, is trivial. Then you are being condescending or incredibly intellectually dishonest.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. Notice SICKO still not appearing on TVs.. and not seeing it for sale
in chain stores ... cowards!!!
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angrycarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. Gupta is a star.
His salary is paid by a corporation that takes millions from insurance and drug companies to run their ads. Were he a lobbyist he would be unacceptable to Obama but he is the same as a lobbyist. He sells a message to the public that things are not nearly as bad as they seem just take two of whatever Merck is selling this week and settle down. He is a corporate shill and the wrong man for a crucial job.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #28
60. Beautifully said, angrycarpenter.
Gupta is dead wrong for the job, dead wrong.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
85. "He is a corporate shill and the wrong man for a crucial job."
Right . . .
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #28
112. same as a lobbyist--- Good Point!
I didn't know who Gupta was until this all hit DU, so hadn't been able to get a clear idea of what I think about it.

Now that I'm reading up on what he's all about I'm getting the picture. Excellent reasoning, I see what you mean.

I certainly hope these points get argued in the places where they'll make some difference
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #19
31. Subjective? Saying that Michael Moore fudged his facts is subjective?
Name one fact that he fudged.
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Yup, subjective. One fact? How about two?
1. Moore implied Cuba's healthcare system is better than the U.S. on several occasions. He did show the chart, true. Hence the term "fudging."

2. Moore claimed Cuba has longer life expectancy, to support the implication that Cuba has a better health care plan. He only showed on study indicating a trivially longer Cuban life span, while ignoring other studies showing a significantly longer U.S. life span. Again, fudging.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Apparently you didn't understand my question
What FACTS did Moore fudge?

I didn't say that every criticism of Gupta's was objective. But there were several objective criticisms by Gupta that I recounted in the OP that were not accurate.

Gupta implied that Moore withheld the information on Cuba being rated # 39: NOT TRUE
Gupta claimed that Sicko stated that per capita spending on health care in Cuba is $25: NOT TRUE
Gupta claimed that Sicko implied that citizens don't pay for health care with taxes: NOT TRUE
Gupta claimed that Heckley was not connected with a think tank: NOT TRUE
Gupta claimed that Moore fudged his facts: NOT TRUE

And furthermore, his subjective criticisms were trivial and misleading, and dressed up as so-called "fact checking". Fact-checking was the theme of the whole program. Is that subjective?
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. Facts Are Stubborn Things - John Adams
Gupta is an unabashed bald-faced liar. He was dead wrong in the accusations in his scummy hit piece on Moore, and refuses to apologize for his obvious errors, thus elevating errors into lies.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #40
61. Right on, Manny! Gupta a liar!
Just what we need after eight years of THE BIG LIE, more liars.
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ImOnlySleeping Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #32
44. keep in mind
that you're arguing that spending 25 times more per person to obtain a slightly higher ranked system. I would argue that that makes Cuba's system substantially better than America's.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #44
62. And this is the point Moore
was making. He was not saying Cuba's health care was better. He was pointing out the inefficiencies due to insurance industry robbery.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
48. you're no better than the republicans that went along with Bush on every single thing he did
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 08:29 AM by no limit
Just because in this case this is Obama and he's a democrat lying on your part is not justified. Learn how to think for yourself, I'm sick of all the brainwashed idiots in this country that can't see past democrat/republican. This isn't a fucking sport.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #19
58. Right, not an enemy of health care.
only an enemy of the health care consumer. You are a stealth Republican. Maybe not so stealth.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
94. subjective: taking place within the mind and modified by individual bias; "a subjective judgment"
That's exactly the problem with Gupta's critisims of "Sicko".



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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
107. Gupta's comments were not subjective. They were biased against Moore. Why?
What is Gupta's agenda? Seems to align with CNN. I vote no Gupta.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #33
63. Stealth Republican. nt
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
42. His status as a doctor publicly criticizing Sicko on CNN held a lot of water with many.
His agenda was more important to him than the facts. We need to place truth (as in facts) as a given with the incoming administration. His selection as well as Hillary's (think; Bosnia) caste a shadow of doubt in all they put forward!
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #42
64. Thank you, mod mom!
He had an agenda, this is clear. He was representing the insurance industry interests. It was quite obvious.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #42
108. Well said. nm
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
56. And who wrote your talking points?
Sounds like it came directly from the mouth of Rush Limbaugh. Right wing talking points don't go over well here.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
73. Let me guess - you are employed by
THE HEALTH INSURANCE INDUSTRY!

The only people in the country who think that Sicko was trivial and silly (with the exception of a few wealthy medical specialists and the pharmaceutical industry).
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
87. Training to do what?
I'm willing to believe that Gupta is brilliant.

Because of that I'm forced to conclude that his libelous hit-piece on Sicko was an attempt to defend the existing profit-making system, not "honest mistakes".

As such, he is unfit to be a public official, in any capacity.

All the training in the world is irrelevant if the person in question lacks personal ethics.
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Daemonaquila Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
90. His training is a red herring.
His specialty, or specialty training - unless it was in public health but that's not necessary - isn't an issue.

The complaints against Michael Moore aren't the issue either, except that they show he's an ideologue who supports the status quo, and a brazen liar.

Now that's a problem... a supporter of Big Med and Big Pharma, and a liar... not what we need.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks once again K&R n/t
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angrycarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. I hadn't forgotten his attempted smear of moore.
and I am sure that it is true of anyone who felt passionately about the film when it came out. I am also sure that he is in bed with big pharma. Every segment he has produced has a companion ad for the drug that treats whatever he is reporting on.
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angrycarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. He should have went to Appalachia
and found the doctor that had traveled the most miles, treated the most people for free, had seen personally how badly our health system has broken down and asked them to be our next Surgeon general. Also I remember how Robin Meade reacted with revulsion to Moore after he appeared on her morning show talking about the uninsured dying in the streets. I have not watched Headline News since.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. Wiki has a good synapsis of the
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
14. wow!-- what a great post!
That was just excellent!
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
17. K&R
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
18. Big K&R.
This is the most disappointing move so far for me. I know Obama is more moderate than I would hope for, and I do like him much more than the chimp, or the alliterative to what we would of had with McLame, but I do wish for at least some liberal representation.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
22. Another K&R
Thanks for this!
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
24. Agree. Gupta is a poor choice. I'd rather have Dr Hibbert.


Seriously, I have a real problem with Gupta.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
27. What a disgrace this appointment is . . . he could have had Howard Dean . . .
how proud we could have been!!

Larry Summers . . . Rahm Emmanuel . . . Gates ---

this is beyond disappointing or even depressing --- it's outrageous!

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Daemonaquila Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
92. You HAD to point that out.
Damn it, now I'm doubly depressed.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
103. Don't forget Vilsack..
GMO Proponent and Confined Animal Feeding Operation cheerleader.

Would you like some Roundup in your Corn Flakes?

Big Business has weaseled its way in deeper than I would ever have imagined. They are shameless, and I have no idea what Obama is thinking.
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farmboxer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
35. Michael Moore is a true American hero
I saw what Gupta tried to do on CNN, it was a disgrace. He appears to be too close to the drug companies. I want Universal health care, ASAP, like Europe, in America it's all about the money. I will never forget what Gupta tried to do on CNN. Michael Moore proved Gupta a liar!
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
36. OMG! You're Either a PUMA or an Anti-Vaccer!!!1!
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 01:27 AM by berni_mccoy
:sarcasm:

Actually, that's not an unrealistic response some (including myself) have been getting around here for similar stances.

But you stated the case extremely well, so maybe that will shut up some of the bullies around here.
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
37. kr
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
38. He's too smug.
Aren't there any doctors without massive egos? I see nothing that marks him as a public servant.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
39. Fantastic post
from a person who has actual knowlege and context. Refreshing. Gupta is a hack who should not be trusted.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
41. Excellent post as usual TFC. rec'd
Don't you have a public health background? If I recalled correctly, I'd like to hear who you would recommend. I personally was hoping for Howard Dean.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Howard has no public health education or experienceand
and he didn't want the job.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #43
69. If you are referring to Howard Dean...
As gov of Vermont he implemented one of the few successful health care reforms in this country, he is also a doctor. What more "education" do you need on health?

I doubt he wanted the Surgeon General's post. That may be true. But he would have made an ideal Secretary of Health and Human Services. Much better than the timid and compromised (by virtue of being married to a DC lobbyist) Dashcle.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #41
68. Thank you mod mom -- Regarding Howard Dean
It is true, as cali says, that Dean does not have the requisite training in public health. However, I note the training requirement in my OP as a very important, but not an absolute qualification. Clearly, Howard Dean is a very exceptional individual. As Governor of Vermont he emphasized health care, pushed through legislation that achieved nearly universal health care for children and pregnant women, and reduced the uninsured rate in the state by about one quarter. Not ideal, and we certainly should aim for better in our country, but that accomplishment of his as governor was nevertheless quite exceptional. Furthermore, Dean's career has demonstrated an exceptional ability to get things done, as well as concern for the people of our country. So in his case I would be willing to make an exception, and I would have been happy to have seen him chosen as SG.

Otherwise, I don't have anyone specific to suggest, though I'm sure that there are plenty to choose from who have the requisite training and experience.

This is what Dr. Richard Carmona, our 17th Surgeon General, who complained about being muzzled by Bush, had to say about the requirements for the office:

A successful candidate for the office of Surgeon General should have deep and broad public health experience, especially as a public health or uniformed military officer.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
45. So Gupta Is a Brash Young Man In Over His Head
I expect he's smart enough to realize it and hire and lean on experts, as he fulfills the media's need for camera-ready figureheads.

At least he's not a veterinarian with outdated and harmful attitudes about women's health issues. It has been so much worse!
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. He had "experts" to criticise "Sicko" and still got his criticisms wrong..
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 08:42 AM by Fumesucker
Then he used Michael Moores' own line on him and refused to acknowledge it when called out.

Dishonest to the very cores.

Edited for speling.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #45
104. Yeah, Just Like G.W.Bush was a successful businessman
He can learn on the job! Those Brash Young Men are excellant in learning from the weather worn, experienced men that are shuttered in the back room studying for their entire lives. Yeah, Great Idea!

After all, it has been so much worse...

Nice try on trying to spin sympathy for the Charismatic mouthpiece who is Sanjay Gupta. The majority of us on DU are sick and tired of liars, unqualified partisans, corporate profiteers and paid schills regardless of party affiliation.

Unfortunately, some here also think that if it's branded as Democrat, it's automagickally acceptible. It's not, and as soon as the Citizens of the country wake up to the fact that they can be screwed equally well by either party, there will be no change.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
113. I agree that it could be worse
Maybe even a lot worse.

But I wouldn't have expected this from a Democratic President who says that universal health care is an important goal of his. I am still very hopeful that Obama will proceed with his health plan, as he said he would. But I just don't understand appointments like this.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
46. As usual TfC, well-annotated and substantiated post. I, too, am in the
health services field and agree with your assessment. I have neither the time or patience, however, to construct a well-written analysis like you have. Over the past year, you have contributed SO much to this forum, in time AND substance, and I hope you know how very much you are appreciated.

K&R, as usual. :hi:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #46
98. Thank you so much
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 03:08 PM by Time for change
I very much appreciate your saying that :hi:

What health services work do you do?
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
47. To be fair to Gupta he was just a whore doing what his pimps told him to do
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 08:23 AM by no limit
but I totally agree with everything you said. K&R, thank you for this post.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
49. Here is the NPR link where they are talking about
Gupta's possible future involvement in developing policy for Universal Healthcare:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99071514

This really stinks.
:(
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
51. THANK YOU! Yes, I am yelling it. Once again you prove to be an eloquent voice of reason.
Thanks for yet another excellent post. K & R.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
52. I've been under an academic rock lately. Gupta? Really?!
If I hadn't seen the discussion I would swear this was a tidbit from The Onion. Gupta?!
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
53. Just what we need, another fucking liar.
Seems like the Bush Administration. Either Obama is going to side with an industry that has abused the American health care consumer, or he is not. This does not look at all good. I'm afraid Obama is not advised well.
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MrsBrady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
55. K&R 100%
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WillieW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
59. Gupta is an "establishment" doctor
I think that Dr. Oz is better qualified for the job. He is open to alternatives and is bucking the system.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #59
70. I like Dr. Oz
Edited on Fri Jan-09-09 10:00 AM by LostinVA
I haven't touched HFCS since he was on "Oprah" a few years ago and showed what it looks like -- floor polish.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
65. How can we tell Obama, we don't want this asshole?
Give me a contact us link. As an Obama contributer I believed him when he said "I will listen when we disagree." Well I DISAGREE!
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #65
76. Direct link below:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #76
84. Thank you. nt
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
67. Orac had a great blog post dissecting Gupta
Read it here:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/01/dr_sanjay_gupta_for_surgeon_general_yawn.php

"My reasons for not being too thrilled with Dr. Gupta as the new Surgeon General come down to two areas. First, like Val Jones, I think he lacks gravitas. He's too young and has no experience as the administrator of a large organization, which is important. Although the Surgeon General is an important position, it is not a policy-making position but rather primarily an administrative position. Dr. Gupta's academic rank is only Assistant Professor of Neurosurgery, and his other position, Associate Chief of the Neurosurgery Service at Grady Memorial Hospital, isn't sufficient administrative experience to prepare him to administer the Public Health Service. In brief, the Surgeon General is the chief medical officer for the 6,000 strong Commissioned Corps of the US Public Health Service. It is also an advisory position, being the primary medical science advisor to the Assistant Secretary for Health, who in turn is the principal advisor to the Secretary of Health and Human Services on public health and scientific issues. Depending on what the President wants, the Surgeon General can be simply an administrator with little public role, but an unofficial role of the Surgeon General is to be "America's chief doctor."

It is that second role of the Surgeon General that makes me somewhat less than thrilled with the apparent selection of Dr. Gupta. A Surgeon General's influence with the public and with policy makers derives primarily from his gravitas and his persuasiveness. If the Surgeon General is perceived as a lightweight, legislators and the U.S. public will pay him little mind. One reason that Dr. C. Everett Koop was so influential was because his long history as a pediatric surgeon and his manner led him to be respected throughout the medical community and by policy makers and the movers and shakers in HHS. I just can't see Dr. Gupta commanding that sort of respect, given his history as a talking head.

However, what concerns me most about Dr. Gupta is his relationship with science-based medicine. Being a medical correspondent is a tough job to have and still stay true to science- and evidence-based medicine. The temptation to "sex a story up" or to do credulous puff pieces about the latest "alternative" medicine in order to drive ratings is strong, and it takes a strong commitment to be able to resist them. In this, Dr. Gupta has made some high profile stumbles. Chris Mooney points out how poorly he performed in the Clonaid fiasco. In actuality, this is something about Dr. Gupta that I had not heard about. I do remember the Raelians and their claim, presented without any evidence, that they had cloned a human being. But I either did not see or hear about Dr. Gupta's credulous report on the Raelians. It was truly a low point for medical journalism in the last decade, and he was at the center of it. As Mooney points out, he may not have been a willing participant. He may have been inexperienced then. He may not have been confident enough in his position to say no. However, his involvement with that story does not give me confidence in his judgment."
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #67
116. Yes, his relationship with science based medicine
I think you hit the nail on the head with that.

I don't believe that he has much scientific expertise, or if he does, he has prostituted himself to CNN for the sake of his job. Either way, it doesn't inspire much confidence. We simply don't need someone like that. I think we would be better off leaving the position vacant.
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mrs_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
71. what do you mean?
"Public Health is a sub-specialty of medicine that requires four years of additional training after completing the requirements for a doctorate of medicine degree."

umm... an mph only takes 2 years - or are you saying that you need to have a phd in epi? also, you don't have to be an md to be a public health official - what about the nurses and social workers paving the streets everyday to educate the public. finally, please elaborate on policies set by the surgeon general in the past. personally, i don't really care who the sg is - and i'm in medicine too. but if they actually do have a role in policy (that i have never heard about), that may change my mind. so far, that is not a part of the job description (unless you know something the rest of us don't)
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #71
72. Medicine is divided into specialties
In order to specialize in a branch of medicine and to be certified as such, additional training -- what is referred to as a residency -- is required beyond the four years of medical school. A general surgeon requires a residency and board certification in general surgery. An endocrinologist requires a residency and board certification in endocrinology. Same thing with Public Health. An MPH is part of the requirement for certification in Public Health, but only part of it. The full training required to be certified in Public Health totals four years.

Regarding role in policy, I addressed that in the OP:

The Surgeon General serves as America's chief health educator by providing Americans the best scientific information available on how to improve their health and reduce the risk of illness and injury…

In order to provide Americans with the best scientific information on how to improve their health, one has to have a lot of expertise on how to read and interpret research on the subject. Do you not think that that is a policy related activity?
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mrs_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #72
77. so you were just referring to a residency in PH
have all the sg's done a residency in that particular field? i know lots of MDs who have done their residencies in infectious diseases or internal medicine who couldn't be surgeon general by your requirements then - but who have years and years of experience in public health (even more than your 30 years, which I respect greatly). and as someone who reads tons of scientific literature, does research, and needs to be able to convey my scientific knowledge to the public, i would never consider that a policy related activity. yes, sg is important - and implements policy, perhaps. but, would the sg actually be one who sets policy? is not the sg more a mouthpiece for the government on how to live a healthy life?

personally, i think residency counts a great deal, but experience does as well. the surgeons i know have done at least 7 year residencies, and if one of them had years of experience in public health would you say they shouldn't serve as sg? paul farmer would be my favorite pick for sg (if i had a choice), but his residency is in infectious diseases (my field as well). i think he would be great at the job, and his residency shouldn't disqualify him.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. What do you mean by JUST referring to a residency in PH?
That's what training in medical specialtes is -- residencies.

Public health is a very specialized area of medicine. It involves interpreting population based epidemiologic studies, identifying the means to improve the health of populations, and implemnting those policies. Yes, experience counts too. And yes, someone without PH training could do a good job as SG. But certainly PH training is the most useful training for the job.

As far as setting policy is concerned, the only person in the executive branch who sets policy is the President -- except in the case of the Bush Presidency, where the VP also set policy. All cabinet positions are subservient to the president. But they all offer advice on policy.
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mrs_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. i wasn't trying to offend you
but if you want to take it that way, there is nothing i can do about it...

if you notice, i said "just referring to" not "referring to just" a residency. there is a difference.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #83
89. I accept that you weren't trying to offend me
I didn't understand why you phrased it that way.
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mrs_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. peace. nt
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
74. K&R !!
Thanks for laying the facts down.

How much more exciting Gupta's review of Sicko could have been if he had joined in with Moore in discussing the troubles of the US healthcare system and the dilemma for-profit healthcare systems have in that if citizens need more medicine it is better for holders of pharma stocks. Gupta could have added a perspective on how the profit motive has damaged our system.

He could have had an economic analyst on to show how our trade competitors have healthcare costs borne by the taxpayers and not their businesses, which makes them more competitive companies.

But no. He was asked to smash Moore and he went along with the script. That is sad and not supportive of our public health. Wherever Cuba ranks, the USA being #37 with all that we spend and millions who can't even afford coverage, is evidence of great failings in our system.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #74
109. Exactly! I think that's what made him so repugnant to many of us.
Instead is saying, yeah, I screwed up, Gupta took on the "Either your with us or against us" meme that Bush did, and chose to fight an unwinnable battle.

He made it into a pissing contest when in reality, a whole lot more could have been done with that time.

Instead, he pissed it away, and still ended up looking like a Corporate Schill. Gupta had the power to do this, and I totally stand by Michael Moores vigorous defense of a project that he obviously poured a lot of time and effort into.

I have to ask, Is Gupta that stupid to think he could try and denigrate Michael Moore with such poor research on his own part?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
75. Tangentally related, who does the CDC report to? Surgeon General,
as the premier emergency public health organization; or Homeland Security, through FEMA, in dealing with national emergencies?
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mrs_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. cdc is under hhs
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
80. Honestly? I Think One Of The Most Ridiculous Concepts I've Heard Is Disqualifying Someone From A
cabinet position because of their critiques on some ultra-partisan's movie.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. It doesn't matter to you that the critique was filled with inaccurate information?
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #80
88. What are you trying to say here? Did you read the OP?
Are you saying that Gupta has shown himself to be an advocate for the health concerns of citizens? Are you saying that he has the right kind of experience to be SG?

What parts of Moore's movie do you disagree with? Does partisanship matter if it's the truth? Where is the *change* we voted for?

--IMM
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LiberalLovinLug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #80
93. what partisan?
partisan to the Democratic party? Uh did you not see how the Dem candidates disowned Moore completely in the last campaign?

If you call partisanship a dedication to bringing affordable universal healthcare that we see in every other western democracy to the USA then...wow.

If you want to paint Moore with that brush then you also have to call Gupta an "ultra-partisan" as someone who speaks for and is paid by the big Pharma companies.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #80
96. Where are you coming from on this?
You can't honestly think there could be a "centrist" and "market-driven" approach to healthcare that could also be humane to those who need it.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
95. Other question: Is Dr. Gupta actually a surgeon?
I'd read in another thread that you have to be if you're gonna be SG.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. Yes, he is a neurosurgeon
But no, there is no need to be surgeon in order to be SG.

Why they use that term (the "surgeon" in SG) is not clear to me -- I think of it as some sort of anachronism. When I was in the US Air Force I was designated a "Flight Surgeon", meaning that I gave medical care to flying personnel. But I was not a surgeon and I never have been.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. Thanks for the clarification.
n/t.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
101. Gupta is a Soul Sucking Preacher of the Mass Media
He know's who pays his bills, so he did a favor for Big Medicine to try an disparage Michael Moore.

He was ineffective at that game, and I am sure he would be ineffective as Surgeon General as well, mostly because he is not able to admit when he is wrong, but that he lacks the necessary training to be the manager of the health policy of America.

This is just an attempt to shove another Corporate Blue Dog DLC Sucking schill down our throats.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
114. We deserve better than a talking head sock puppet for big pharma.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
115. Can you say Snake Oil ??????????????
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dougkeenan Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
117. Gupta is a reefer maniac also ...
... not that lying about Michael Moore wasn't enough reason to question his motives
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
118. GUPTA is Harry Anslinger Revived.....NO NO NO..To REEFER MADNESS
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
119. Some how...Obama and his compatriates never saw Sicko....Too bad for us.
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Seedersandleechers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
121. As far as I know
Gupta has not said he wanted the job. Maybe he'll decline.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
123. Being a neurosurgeon does not excuse intellectual dishonesty.
Maybe he'll be a good spokesmodel for Obama's policies. But if policy is left to someone whose allegiance as a media pundit led him to vapidly play the role of "one the one hand/on the other hand" just to show that he is "even-handed", it's a terrible choice.

And let us not forget: the guy who invented the lobotomy was awarded the Nobel Prize, once upon a time.


Thank you, Tfc.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #123
124. Yeah
And in that one hand/other hand game he played with Moore's crucially important film, the ball was in his right hand most of the time.
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Oldenuff Donating Member (442 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
125. Good post..

Sure seems that there would be more suitable choices out there.But then again,we just love them smooth talkers don't we?
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
126. 100th rec. Excellent post! nm
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
127. I just feel the need to kick this again, b/c it is vitally important
thanks once again for your hard work in bringing many details together and giving what I believe the best expression so far of what is soooo wrong with Gupta as SG. It is shockingly unbelievable that such an important role is so casually bandied about, as though it were nothing more than a figurehead and a sinecure that could be filled by a TV celebrity rather than someone (like Howard Dean) who is totally qualified and proactive.
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