I believe the only time you should physically hurt another human being is in self defense.

[trumad]

Why is there any other reason to hurt another human being other than to protect yourself?

[The Count]

1. No other valid reason, I agree. defense needs to be proportional too.

[trumad]

4. Sure...

Sometimes you can walk away if the confrontation isn't serious. But if I'm getting pounded, I'll fight back.

But other than that, what other reason would there be to hurt another human being.

[msmcghee]

20. Someone acting in defense, has not only the right of defense at that time . .

. . but also a reasonable claim to make an attacker not desire to press the attack again when conditions might make that possible.

And that's where the bright line becomes bleary. How much is necessary to convince an attacker not to try to do so again. Having dealt with bullies myself - it's been my experience that it takes a fairly complete and humiliating defeat - followed by assurances that you are ready to defeat them again at the first sign of aggression.

Failing that, bullies will yearn to satisfy their own anti-social tendencies again and again - as soon as they feel they have the advantage. We're not dealing with rationality here - it is a matter of psychology and human nature.

For that reason - I give much latitude to the aggrieved party in settling things so that there is no doubt who was victorious. I would even say that the failure to accept the burden to settle things definitively is not only irresponsible - it virtually guarantees worse trouble down the line.

I know many of my fellow liberals disagree with this and have the silly notion that if you are nice to assholes they will change their ways. So be it.

[BOSSHOG]

2. What if

God tells me to blow up an abortion clinic with people in it? Or what if he tells me to set fire to a gay nightclub? Or what if he says its okay if I beat my wife up cause the house isn't clean?

[Debi]

5. Or what if he says its okay if I beat my wife up cause the house isn't clean?

God told my ex-husband that???? And here I thought he came up with that all on his own x(

[Fovea]

19. Well

In the first case, I say we stick the barrel up your right nostril and let you and God work it out.

In the latter case, and I know your wife-- welcome to your new life in physical therapy. I guess I take the culture war too personally.

[SteppingRazor]

3. Other instances of protection come to mind...

protecting family and friends, protecting property (I know it sounds unbearably materialistic, but if I came home to find some jerk looting through my stuff, I sure wouldn't stand by and let them go to work).

But, I think we both agree that violence is only called for as a defensive act. We just disagree as to which offensive acts should be met with force.

[trumad]

6. protecting family and friends, protecting property

I would put that in the self-defense category.

[SteppingRazor]

10. Right then. We pretty much agree on everything, although...

I think you can just haul off and belt someone if they're an Atlanta Braves or University of Kansas fan. :evilgrin:

[Fovea]

15. Property means more to me than material junk.

It might also mean the tools a worker needs to earn a living.

It might mean an heirloom whose loss would be more than a minor dissapointment.

Like the discussion of the police sabotaged tents, who know whose life might depend on that shelter? Certainly not the brown shirt with the box cutter.

[Rex]

7. Self preservation

If a life is threatened, then I think force is okay.

[AndyA]

8. I agree. Violence is not the answer. It never has been, and it never will be.

While all of us humans are here on Earth, using up its resources, fighting with each other, killing, abusing, and generally being poor caretakers of our environment, other things are happening that will take care of us.

Mother Nature is not pleased with what we're doing with our time on Earth. And eventually, our petty disagreements and beliefs won't matter anymore because we'll all be gone.

And we'll have no one but ourselves to blame for it.

[Fovea]

9. To prevent or to end the hurting of another.

And the force should be commensurate with the severity and imminence of the threat.

[trumad]

11. I agree 100 percent

[MrSlayer]

12. To stop someone from hurting others is ok too.

If I see someone beating up an old lady or something I'm going to go over and do something about it.

[Balbus]

13. If it's all about you, then no. But if you want to consider others, then yes.

[Cleita]

14. There isn't. Most societies and religions also believe that.

It's those with imperialistic ambitions who try to change the discourse to make it appear that "we gotta get 'em there, before they come here" bullshit or as it is better known, pre-emptive or preventive war. They have to convince their fellow citizens to be warlike and aggressive to achieve those amibitions. The problem is that those who are duped by these ideas don't gain much of anything and often lose more than they started out with including their lives.

[Flarney]

16. What if it's really, REALLY funny?

And it doesn't hurt too bad?

[TahitiNut]

17. So, does that mean we can shoot smokers on sight?

:evilgrin: Lock and load!!


:popcorn:

[trumad]

18. Damn tough question...

;-)

[Luminous Animal]

21. Sure.

After you've shot all the people who drive cars.

[SteppingRazor]

22. .

:smoke:

[happydreams]

25. rofl!

:rofl:

Al Capone: "We laugh because its funny and we laugh because its true".

[Rosemary2205]

28. U R BAD.

smoking, guns and popcorn all in one post! LOLOL :)

[TahitiNut]

33. "BAD"? Is that good?

:dunce:

:evilgrin:

[sshan2525]

23. There's a whole group of people....

getting together in a hotel in Massachusetts this weekend that would disagree with your premise. I'll leave it there.

[davsand]

24. I could give a crap about the material stuff.

I would be bummed to have someone take my car, my computer, or my TV. I also take steps to prevent that (like locking doors and other things they tell you to do to prevent crime.) Would I hurt somebody over those things? NO. not in defense of stuff.

Having said that, however, I will also say that anybody kicking in my front door will be presumed hostile and threatening to my or my family' safety. I will respond accordingly.

Regards,


Laura

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

26. If it will save their life

If someone had cardiac arrest and you were administering CPR really hard, it can cause pain and even break ribs. But I don't think the person would be angry about it if you were able to save his life.

[HereSince1628]

27. Perhaps during Surgery?

Just saying...Surgical wounds aren't always painless.
..

[Lurking Dem]

29. So much for my sex life.

[northzax]

30. cause she burned dinner?

oh wait, no. damn, I always mix up my freeper and DU accounts :smacks head:

[BuyingThyme]

31. Vaccination.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

32. Well, that may be, but . . .

. . . that doesn't erase the fact that there are some people on this earth who really deserve a good smackdown.

Fortunately, while I agree you shouldn't beat down anyone who isn't actually threatening you, as far as I'm concerned you don't necessarily have to protect a jackass from getting a beating by someone else.