Live Thread: C-Span 1 debate on the Israel/Gaza resolution

[cali]

dear mods, I hope you'll allow this thread to stay. This is about what our representatives are saying/doing on a vital foreign policy issue.

dear duers, I hope we can keep this here. If you agree, please stay away from the obvious comments that will get this locked.

[slipslidingaway]

1. K&R n/t

[cali]

2. blah, blah, blah

Israel is totally justified. Hamas is the epitome of evil. what morons.

[slipslidingaway]

3. US and Israel are in this together - 2 wings of the same bird...

Rep Ros-Lehtinen

[bdamomma]

4. kick

I really don't know if I want to hear Reps pledging their allegiance of Israel, whatever Israel does is ok with them even slaughtering women and children.

[cali]

5. this is positively Orwellian.

and so very disheartening.

[malaise]

6. Good idea n/t

[cali]

7. sorry, malaise. I got a little impatient there.

I should have waited more than 5 minutes.

[malaise]

10. I changed it and then

saw yours. :D

[malaise]

8. A lot of these Reps are inventing stuff

This is a pathetic propaganda feast

[cali]

14. out of whole cloth.

[ShortnFiery]

17. IDIOTS don't realize that us "unwashed masses" now have the Net and YouTube.

The PROPAGANDA machine is NOT working this time.

THIS TIME it's NOT all Hama's fault.

Dumb-Assed representatives, both Dem and Rep, will not get "The Average American" to buy-into sending our sons and daughters over to fight Iran because their idiotic rhetoric will help usher in WWIII. No how! No way!

[vanderBeth]

9. So disappointing right now. :(

But not surprising. :(

[sinkingfeeling]

11. A debate? Do tell, is there anybody in the House opposed? Maybe Dennis?

[cali]

16. and the libertarian guy from TX

sorry, I'm having a brain fart and blanking on his name.

[immoderate]

22. Yeah, Ron Paul made a lot of sense.

He talked a lot about "blow back." Brought up US arming and radicalizing of bin Laden in the 80s. There was a deafening silence when he was done.

--IMM

[slipslidingaway]

43. There was a similar resolution in March 2008, Ron Paul was the

only No vote, I came upon this the other day when searching for something else :)


Here is what he said...the roll call vote link is posted below as well.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll093.xml

http://cnifoundation.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=76&Itemid=42

"...Below is Rep. Paul's statement he gave to the House before the vote:

Mr. Speaker I rise in opposition to H. Res. 951, a resolution to condemn Palestinian rocket attacks on Israeli civilians. As one who is consistently against war and violence, I obviously do not support the firing of rockets indiscriminately into civilian populations. I believe it is appalling that Palestinians are firing rockets that harm innocent Israelis, just as I believe it is appalling that Israel fires missiles into Palestinian areas where children and other non-combatants are killed and injured.

Unfortunately, legislation such as this is more likely to perpetuate violence in the Middle East than contribute to its abatement. It is our continued involvement and intervention – particularly when it appears to be one-sided – that reduces the incentive for opposing sides to reach a lasting peace agreement.

Additionally, this bill will continue the march toward war with Iran and Syria, as it contains provocative language targeting these countries. The legislation oversimplifies the Israel/Palestine conflict and the larger unrest in the Middle East by simply pointing the finger at Iran and Syria. This is another piece in a steady series of legislation passed in the House that intensifies enmity between the United States and Iran and Syria. My colleagues will recall that we saw a similar steady stream of provocative legislation against Iraq in the years before the US attack on that country.

I strongly believe that we must cease making proclamations involving conflicts that have nothing to do with the United States. We incur the wrath of those who feel slighted while doing very little to slow or stop the violence."

[immoderate]

45. Very similar to his statement today.

Disclaimer: I do not usually agree with Ron Paul on anything other than his foreign policy views. But he is usually right there.

This brings to mind the excellent "Blowback" trilogy by Chalmers Johnson, which highlights the American style of imperialism.

--IMM

[slipslidingaway]

46. Just watched the video, it is posted in the PV forum and on the

cspan site.

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/congress/?q=node/77539&hors=h#

I also agree with him that the low interest rates during the 90's helped to create the bubble and discouraged savings, but I do not agree with him on everything either.

Chalmers Johnson and Paul agree on the military spending and blowback idea, unfortunately not too many people listen.

[ShortnFiery]

12. What these "well meaning" representatives don't realize is it's playing into the Neo-Con wet dream

of WWIII.

Are our representatives TONE DEAF to the rest of the World Community?!?

I don't even recognize my Democratic Party when those who are Progressive and Humanitarian on all issues regarding the American People come across as nothing less than blood-thirsty when it comes to those within the Gaza Strip. You'd think from their rhetoric that the ONLY people who suffer are those within Israel.

Further, they don't accept that Hamas was DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED. Hamas is a multifaceted group and it's going NOWHERE. We must negotiate with Hamas like we do with the thugs of Communist China.

Get prepared to SACRIFICE your children to the intake of the WAR MACHINE because this type of rhetoric will draw us into WWII. :nuke:

[bdamomma]

20. Israel -good, Palestine-bad, this is what these reps see.

it is sickening, and we will reap what we sow, cause their support of Israel will blowback in our faces.

[ShortnFiery]

34. When WWIII rhetoric begins with blaming IRAN, who here's willing to send their sons and/or daughter

to KILL and DIE in that hell hole of the Middle East Arena? :grr: :shrug:

[cali]

13. listening to the dems is worse than listening to the repukes

Shelley Berkely just spoke. now Susan Davis up. Supports the resolution. Of course.

[malaise]

15. Pathetic

No respect for human life. Only some lives matter. I've had enough of this.

[slipslidingaway]

18. Keith Ellison up now - will vote present

[cali]

19. Keith Ellison voices concern about the resolution

says the resolution does not voice sufficient concern for Gazans. Talks about the number of deaths, the obstruction of the Red Cross, the blockade of Gaza.

Says he'll vote present.

[bdamomma]

24. thank goodness someone has rational thinking.

[Barack_America]

21. Our tax dollars at work.

Palestinians survey a kindergarten destroyed after an Israeli air strike in Gaza January 8, 2009. (Mohammed Salem/Reuters)



A Palestinian woman shouts after shells fired by an Israeli naval boat landed at Shati refugee camp in Gaza January 9, 2009. Israel pushed ahead with its two-week-old offensive in the Gaza Strip on Friday, defying a U.N. Security Council resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire. REUTERS/Suhaib Salem (GAZA)

UN: 257 Palestinian children killed in Gaza
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3680442&mesg_id=3680442

UN suspends all Gaza activities after driver is killed (update - another driver has died)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3679514&mesg_id=3679514


(x-posted with the Kucinich thread)

[cali]

23. Ackerman up now. talking about how he spent sunday in s'derot

talking about how terrible it was. talks about listening to Kucinich. And is setting up a total strawman. ugh.

[Barack_America]

25. I wonder did he spend any time in Gaza?

(rhetorical question, of course)

[ShortnFiery]

28. Yes, some human lives evidently are MORE important than others.

:(

[slipslidingaway]

32. That is the bottom line :( n/t

[slipslidingaway]

26. Ackerman - listened to Kucinich and Paul - if they had become

president, how many missiles would have fallen on our country before they would have defended our country.

[G_j]

27. I can't take this

:puke:

[cali]

33. that was pretty damn painful.

at least they've ordered the yeas and nays/

[G_j]

39. wasn't much of a debate

was glad to see it end..
yikes!

[cali]

40. yep. that it was short and we didn't have to hear anymore propaganda than we did

is the only thing that can be said in its favor.

[G_j]

41. just a short sustained round of torture

I am always asking myself, are these folks for real?

[balantz]

29. I'm actually sick to my stomach watching them "debate" as they sell their souls.

I had to turn it off.

[bdamomma]

30. I wonder if the stupid asses will be scratching their heads

when they receive low approval ratings from us, cause they deserve it for supporting this mass killing of civilians.

[Barack_America]

31. FYI folks, 3 Israeli citizens have died, compared to 765 Palestinians (257 children)

[cali]

35. Thanks mods, and thanks to all who participated in this thread

for participating in a way that allowed it to stay up.

[Barack_America]

36. They'll be voting later, yes? So still time to call our Reps?

This will undoubtedly pass, but the more Reps we can get to stand up, the greater the chance Israel realizes that they're beginning to lose people in America.

I used to be sympathetic towards Israel, but they've lost me with this.

[cali]

37. yes, there's still time

I gotta say though, that if even Ellison won't vote nay, it's just about impossible to get anyone else to vote no beyond Dennis. I'll still call just to register my opinion.

[bdamomma]

38. I already called my Rep.

god knows if it means anything.

[Barack_America]

42. I called mine (Chaka Fattah).

So we'll see (not holding my breath)

[slipslidingaway]

44. Today's speeches are now up on C-Span, link...

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/congress/?q=node/77539&hors=h#

[thewiseguy]

47. They are voting on the resolution right now

[G_j]

48. 5 nays, 390 yeas

one R, and four Ds

[thewiseguy]

49. Do we know who has voted Nay?

[G_j]

50. not yet

but certainly Kucinich was one of them

and Ron Paul on the other side

[cali]

51. I think we can assume that the repub was Ron Paul and one of the dems

was Dennis. If there wasn't a present vote than maybe Ellison voted no. That leaves 2 or 3 left to be identified and thanked.

[slipslidingaway]

52. Roll call link- Kucinich, Moore (WI), Paul, Rahall, Waters - No

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll010.xml