Why doesn't Egypt open their border to rescue the people of Gaza?

[Zywiec]

I've asked several times and no one seems to have an answer.

It's not like Gaza is completely surrounded by Israel, so there is a way for them to temporarily relocate during this crisis.

I've seen comparisons to a ghetto of WWII, but what ghetto in WWII was bordered by another power also keeping them in?

I would rather be displaced then dead, but that's just me...

Just askin'

[ananda]

1. Palestine is the scapegoat or whipping boy..

.. of the entire ME. Even many Arabs
and Arab countries don't like Palestine,
for various reasons.

[JerseygirlCT]

24. Yes, there's that.

They provide a useful distraction as is.

[K Gardner]

2. Its a good question, and relevant. I don't know the answer.

[ensho]

3. Egypt is in the tight grip of the neo cons

they try to sit in the middle of the seesaw

it is time for the Egyptians to clean up their name. if they can build pyramids, then they can figure out a way to get off the seesaw.

[Pavulon]

8. By destroying Israel?

they tried that 3 times. Failed. They did get their desert back eventually.

Egypt can step up and help. Take over gaza, kill hamas leadership in the street and rebuild the place. No more rockets, and theyget back some land they lost. That is one solution.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

44. YES, Egypt should step up and help

They could act in defense of Gaza, after all they HAVE an Air Force and a proper Army, unlike those who are trapped in Gaza. They could prevent invasion by the IDF and stop the killing of civilians.
That would be another solution.

[Pavulon]

45. That would lead to them no longer

having an air force and army. Egypt lost gaza in one of those wars.

By step up I mean a negotiated solution where gaza is a semi autonomous state.

Egypt could help rebuild and squash hamas and other idiots who mess things up.

[independentpiney]

10. It goes back alot further than neocons and is more complicated

No Arab countries were ever willing to take in Palestinians beyond a limited number of second-class guest workers, other than perhaps Jordan. That they have been ghettoized so many years under miserable conditions in Gaza and the West Bank says alot about both the old idea of pan-Arabism and the political Islam that replaced it.

[JerseygirlCT]

25. Absolutely nt

[Bullet1987]

22. Modern egyptians didn't build the pyramids lol

That was an entirely different group. Modern Egyptians are Muslims.

[Mojorabbit]

4. Maybe they don't want

to be attacked or be drawn into the war?

[notesdev]

5. Because the Arab nations don't want this problem solved

The Palestinians are the tip of the spear for the larger Arab effort to wipe out Israel. Plus, many of the Arab countries have (very bad) experience dealing with these people and have no desire for them to be anything but somebody else's problem. See Black September (Jordan), civil wars (Lebanon), support for Saddam Hussein's invasion (Kuwait, Saudi Arabia), and so on.

[Pavulon]

6. Pawns

The ME nations have long used the Palestinians when it suited their needs. Egypt used to be a soviet aligned state and used them during their various wars with israel, as did other nations.

So now they have people they used and have basically run out of a use for. No cold war, no USSR, bad economy.

In the 40's many muslim states tossed out large numbers of jews. They went to Israel and other nations. There is no right of return for them. During the same time muslims who lived in what is now israel either fought israel or were displaced in the war in 48.

The states surrounding israel went to war to wipe it out and lost. Then lost several more wars, and land in the process. Occupied territories are just that. Land Israel took from nations trying to wipe it out.

So the defeated nations used these people to fight a proxy war with Israel. Now many of those nations are no longer fighting Israel and dont want them.

Hopefully egypt will step up and help clean up what is started. If they did take over gaza they would half to kill or displace hamas, as they dont really want them around.

There are good books on the history of this conflict that cover both sides from an neutral view.

[FarCenter]

7. Because we pay them about $2 billion / year?

[sam sarrha]

9. probably why you wouldn't want 1.5 people plus all the Hamas terrorists to move into your county

Israel has kept them angry and illiterate.. Egypt has enough of their own problems.. Jordan wishes they didnt have their burden of Palestinians

http://www.mideastweb.org/refugees1.htm
When the UN voted to partition Palestine into Jewish and Arab states in 1947, Palestinian Arabs opposed the plan, and immediately initiated riots , a blockade of Jewish Jerusalem, and ambushes of buses and other transport throughout the British Mandate territories. The British looked on for the most part and did nothing as long as the mandate continued. Arab irregulars stationed themselves in various towns and initiated attacks on nearby Jewish towns and blockade of transport. The Haganah underground of the Jewish Agency organized defense and later went over to the offensive. Dissident terrorist groups, the Irgun and LEHI, organized both attacks and terror bombings in Jaffa, Haifa and Jerusalem. When the mandate expired, the Jews declared a state in accordance with the partition resolution, and the armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq invaded Palestine.

The war that ensued was won by Israel, creating a large number of Arab refugees. Estimates vary from about 520,000 (Israeli sources) to 726,000 (UN sources) to over 800,000 (Arab sources) refugees, Palestinian Arabs who fled or were forced out of their homes during the fighting. This number has grown to include over 4.6 million displaced persons, about 3.7 million of whom are currently registered as refugees with the UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees). Of these, somewhat over a million live in camps run by the UNRWA (see www.un.org/unrwa/pr/pdf/figures.pdf ) Generally, refugees living in the camps live in conditions of abject poverty and overcrowding. The refugees of the 1948 Israeli war of independence and the lesser number of refugees of the 1967 war constitute a real monumental humanitarian and political problem, and no resolution of the conflict can ignore them. The issue has also been deliberately exploited by Arab and Palestinian politicians in their war with Israel. The refugee problem has been at the heart of peace negotiations ever since 1949.


there is this view
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/refugees.html
The Palestinians left their homes in 1947-48 for a variety of reasons. Thousands of wealthy Arabs left in anticipation of a war, thousands more responded to Arab leaders' calls to get out of the way of the advancing armies, a handful were expelled, but most simply fled to avoid being caught in the cross fire of a battle. Had the Arabs accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian would have become a refugee and an independent Arab state would now exist beside Israel.

this is good..
http://www.jafi.org.il/education/100/MAPS/demog.html
The continuation of Israel’s Jewish-Zionist existence is not something to be taken for granted and may come to an end if preventive measures are not taken. Two factors will determine Israel’s future demographic composition: natural population increase rates within Israel and the Palestinian refugee issue.

Within the territory of the State of Israel, the Jews in 2001 constituted 73% of the population. Because of the rapid natural increase of the Palestinian population, it is expected that the percentage of the Jewish population within Israel will drop to 68% by 2020, despite continuing immigration to the country. When the West Bank and Gaza Strip are taken into account, the picture is even more dire: Jews in 2001 constituted 51% of the entire population; in 2020, this percentage is expected to amount to 42% (1). In other words, by 2020 there will be more Arabs than Jews between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. This dry statistic, according to many, has only one meaning. If Israel keeps the West Bank and Gaza under its control, it will have to choose between two painful options: either losing its Jewish character or ceasing to be a democratic state. That is, if Israel wants to remain both Jewish and democratic, it has to pull out of the territories, in which presently reside some 3.5 million Palestinians. With natural population growth working to their advantage, the Arabs are assured of becoming a demographic majority in what is now Israel and the West Bank and Gaza.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

11. Because Egypt doesn't give a flying fuck about the Palestinians.

No Arab country does. It is convenient for them to pay lip service to the suffering of the Palestinians, but the fact of the matter is that Arab countries generally are very happy that the Palestinians are Israel's problem and not theirs.

[Junkdrawer]

12. Arab political leadership, or the Arab public?

Big difference...

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. What the hell are you talking about?

I'm not aware of a single non-Palestinian led movement aimed at establishing a Palestinian homeland, or Palestinian rights up until the first intifada. Care to name one?

[Junkdrawer]

27. I'm talking about this: "Ordinary Arabs fume over Israeli invasion"

CAIRO: Inside Al Azhar Mosque, a 1,000-year-old center of religious learning, the preacher was railing on Friday against Jews. Outside were rows of riot police officers backed by water cannons and dozens of plainclothes officers, there to prevent worshipers from charging into the street to protest against the war in Gaza.

"Muslim brothers," said the government-appointed preacher, Sheik Eid Abdel Hamid Youssef, "God has inflicted the Muslim nation with a people whom God has become angry at and whom he cursed so he made monkeys and pigs out of them. They killed prophets and messengers and sowed corruption on Earth. They are the most evil on Earth."

As the war in Gaza burned through its 14th day, Arab governments have felt their legitimacy challenged with an uncommon virulence. With each passing day, and each Palestinian death, the popularity of Hamas and other radical movements has ratcheted higher on the Arab street, while the standing of Arab leaders has suffered.

Nowhere in the Arab world is the gap between the street and the government so wide as here in Egypt, which has a peace treaty with Israel and has refused to allow free passage of goods and people through its border with Gaza, a decision that has been attacked by Islamic and Arab leaders and proved deeply troubling to many Egyptians. And so the government of President Hosni Mubarak appeared to lean back on its standard formula for preserving authority at Friday Prayer, relying on its security forces to keep calm on the street and government religious institutions like Al Azhar to try to appease public sentiment, in this case by lashing out at the Jews in response to Gaza.

....

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/10/africa/10egypt.php

What "the hell" kind of fantasy land do you live in?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

30. You can't actually answer my question, can you?

I find it highly amusing that countries and constituencies that did everything in their power to expel Palestinians from their territory are now crying foul over Israeli aggression in Gaza.

[Junkdrawer]

32. Let's recap....

You made a sweeping generalization: "Egypt doesn't give a flying fuck about the Palestinians.
No Arab country does."

I politely asked "Arab political leadership, or the Arab public?"

Then you RUDELY asked "What the hell are you talking about?"

I cited a long article showing EXACTLY why I asked my question, and now you're insisting I answer a tangential, carefully qualified question.

After long, careful consideration, my answer is this: FUCK YOU

[ThomWV]

13. Do you think Israel would hesitate a moment to invade Egypt if they did?

Just askin'

[Zywiec]

18. Why would Israel go to war with Egypt

if they open the border and let the Gazans out?

Wouldn't that be a winning proposition for the Israelis?

It seems to me if they can clear out Gaza of the civilian population temporarily, it would benefit their military operations.

[ManiacJoe]

38. If the border is opened, then Hamas will move

into Egypt and start launching missiles into Israel from there. Not a good plan from Egypt's point of view.

Even if Hamas did not move into Egypt and only the civilians did, by the time Israel finished off Hamas, there would be nothing left of Gaza except as a pile of rocks. Egypt would then be stuck with the Gazans as refugees. Again, not what Egypt wants or needs.

[Junkdrawer]

14. Transfer. n/t

[treestar]

15. Arab countries want to destroy Israel

Providing relief to Palestinians undermines that.

Even where they took Palestinian refugees in 1948, they never allowed them citzenship, realizing that doing so would result in their melding into the new country and not caring any more about getting Palestine back. Now the grandchildren of those refugees born in those countries are not citizens either. Keeping them stateless gives them a motive to want Palestine back.

The creation of Israel was unfair to the Palestinians, but the surrounding Arab countries have done nothing to help. At least as far as the Muslim ones, they should have been able to absorb them. Most Christian Palestinians have long since cleared out - many migrated to the US, where, as Christians, they were relatively welcome in the 50s and 60s.

[madrchsod]

16. wrong tribe ?...yes they are pawns from the moment ww2 ended

[Occam Bandage]

17. No country wants an influx of poor, unemployed, unskilled foreigners,

especially from a country with a radical political climate and lax enforcement of laws.

[Codeine]

29. And one with a history

of creating volatile political eruptions in other Arab states.

[High Plains]

19. Mubarek has been bought off by the US.

And he hates Hamas, like Fatah, sees a chance to screw Hamas, fuck Palestinian civilians.

If he keeps this up, he's likely to meet the same fate as Anwar Sadat.

[killbotfactory]

20. Because they have an agreement with Israel to seal the border

[JerseygirlCT]

23. I've wondered about that, too. nt

[TexasObserver]

26. Because they don't want to get a realistic solution any more than Israel does.

Every state in that region bears some responsibility for the mess. Egypt and other Arab states love to talk about the Palestinian plight, but they have done nothing to help end it. The opposite. They like having the chronic friction between Palestinians and Israel.

Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt and Israel all share in the blame, as well as Hamas.

None of those countries or groups has been well served by their leadership in this regard.

[Codeine]

28. Because they don't want any more radical Islamists in Egypt.

They have their hands full with the Muslim Brotherhood already.

You'll find that Palestinians are viewed with suspicion in most every Arab state.

[originalpckelly]

36. You're close, Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.

[Junkdrawer]

37. Whose rise in Gaza was partialy funded by Israel....

In the wake of a suicide bomb attack Tuesday on a crowded Jerusalem city bus that killed 19 people and wounded at least 70 more, the Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas, took credit for the blast.

Israeli officials called it the deadliest attack in Jerusalem in six years.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon immediately vowed to fight "Palestinian terror" and summoned his cabinet to decide on a military response to the organization that Sharon had once described as "the deadliest terrorist group that we have ever had to face."

Active in Gaza and the West Bank, Hamas wants to liberate all of Palestine and establish a radical Islamic state in place of Israel. It is has gained notoriety with its assassinations, car bombs and other acts of terrorism.

But Sharon left something out.

Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.

Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

....

http://web.archive.org/web/20021112131048/http://www.upi.com/print.cfm?StoryID=18062002-051845-8272r

[originalpckelly]

42. Yep, now isn't that fucking ironic?

Just like us an al-Qaeda.

[Junkdrawer]

43. More than ironic: One of the seminal events of the 20th century...

that is a key factor in the course of events in the 21st century.

Yet another "Greatest Story Never Told"...

[Codeine]

39. That was my point.

They're already dealing with the MB; more of the same would simply further destabilize.

[varelse]

31. Has anyone asked Egypt to open their border?

Has anyone offered to guarantee safe passage, volunteered to help defray resettlement costs, or opened any diplomatic talks with Egypt to set up a refugee resettlement program? Have the Palestinians requested this?

Just askin'

[Sultana]

33. Egypt doesn't want to lose the welfare cash we give them

Plus, they don't give a shit about the Palestinians.

[malaise]

34. They will only be the government if they do the West's bidding

Pity you can't ask the late Manley in Jamaica.

[originalpckelly]

35. People in this country are fucking stupid. None of you know the answer.

Hamas, the organization in control of Gaza is the Palestinian offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is an organization that has caused havoc throughout Egypt's history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt

So in other words, the Egyptians want Israel to take care of their enemies, but they have to act like they're not complicit with the destruction so as not to cause outrage in their politically unstable country.

[jazzjunkysue]

40. The middle east is so accustomed to armed insurgencies, it takes alot to get

uninvolved governments to intervene.

We in the west have not lived in the neighborhood of conflict and so are outraged. But this is business as usual.

And they know the blood lust is largely quieted in their own borders. They know better than to let Hamas get under their skin.

The thing is, Hamas knows it can't do Isreal any real harm with a few missles. They're not trying to legitimately correct anything with these annoying rockets. They can only irritate isreal, not threaten it.

No one in the region considers Hamas worthy of a reaction.


And that's what pisses off Hamas.

[Hanse]

41. Because Israel has demanded that Egypt keep it's borders closed.

And Egypt is scared of violence from Israel.

[Pavulon]

46. Egypt does not want to deal with hamas

they have the muslim brotherhood to keep them busy.

[leftchick]

47. because Mubarak is afraid of Hamas

and their involvement with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. It is a cowardly and bad move on his part and will no doubt generate more followers. You can not quash a grass roots movement being marginalized.

Mubarak is a tool of the west and he had better watch his back now that he has chosen sides.