joel stein -"nut allergies-a yuppie invention"

[madrchsod]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-stein9-2009jan09,0,3149168.column?track=rss

joel stein get`s the asshole of the week.....


http://www.boingboing.net/2009/01/09/joel-stein-nut-aller.html

[Warren Stupidity]

1. yeah he's an asshole. Butt (and it is a big butt)

what I don't understand is where all the nut allergy kids were hiding back when I was a yute in the 50's? How did we get to this state of affairs where serious nut allergies are now common?

[Warpy]

16. Apparently kids are being sensitized when parents

feed them peanut butter in infancy. It's probably just a case of a food being introduced too soon. It's how a lot of allergies start.

[AZ Criminal JD]

30. Peanut butter was around in the 50s as much or more than now

[Warpy]

76. Yes, but people weren't giving it to infants.

BIG difference.

The age at which foods are introduced turns out to be very important.

[AZ Criminal JD]

86. In my house they did.

How in the hell do you know what parents in the 50s were feeding infants?? Were you in everyone's house?

[dflprincess]

152. When we (Boomers) were infants it was thought the sooner solids were introduced, the better

and few of us were breast fed.

I can't say when I was first introduced to peanut butter, but I'm guessing it was as soon as I was able to gnaw on piece of toast. My dad was a peanut butter fiend (a trait I inherited) and I know that peanut butter toast or sandwiches was what he usually fed us for breakfast or lunch when he was in charge.

This does not mean I don't think some people are allergic to nuts. Maybe we've just gotton better at identifying food allergies and that's why it seems so many more kids are allergic.

[sybylla]

19. Yeah, I thought breast feeding was supposed to protect kids from allergies

:popcorn:

:hide:


All hijacking aside, I have a nephew who is not only allergic to nuts but now that he's an adult, has had to add fresh fruits and veggies to the list as well. If it's been cooked, he can eat it. If not, he has to stay away. It truly sucks as food allergies go.

[Jeanette in FL]

20. Perhaps, it is because they have been genetically altered or

maybe it is all the pesticides that we are using on them nowadays.

I don't know.

[SpiralHawk]

35. or a combo of genetic mutation & pesto-crapola poison

...could well be...

[Maine-ah]

182. actually, you nailed it.

A story for you:

My Mom used to work for MBNA, and took a call one night and ended up talking to a man who worked in the peanut industry, and she talked to him about my niece who is allergic to peanuts. He basically said the increase in allergies came about when they started modifying the peanuts in order to grow more and to grow them larger.

[DBoon]

28. Maybe better record keeping

and better diagnosis.

A kid dying of a nut allergy in the 1950's may not have been diagnosed as such.

The overall impact of nut allergies may not have been understood absent better reporting and record keeping.

Even where properly diagnosed, it would have been thought of as an isolated occurance

[KT2000]

38. Serious nut allergies are a clue

as is the increase in autism, increase in asthma, increase in childhood cancers, increase in learning disabilities, increase in birth defects, increase in neurological disorders, increase in many allergies.

These are "changes" that need to be investigated. There could be different causes for all of these things but we are looking at a serious problem here.
A recent study in CA examined the increase in autism and debunked the increase in diagnosis explanation.
Since the 1940s we have been dumping TONS of chemicals into our air, water, soil, and food without even considering the consequences - except for protection of corporate profits. Our environment today is not the same as it was in the 50s. Now, mothers pass many chemicals to the fetus through cord blood. Some of these chemicals have altering effect on the very formation of humans now.

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/autism-and-environment

[laundry_queen]

137. I agree, it's a clue

about how something is increasingly horrendously wrong with our environment and food supply.

Take for instance my mom's family. 8 kids, all growing up on a farm, healthy, no allergies or digestive problems. Same with me, no allergies at all...until I hit 14. Suddenly, I started having asthma symptoms out of the blue. A year later I was allergy tested to be allergic to dust, mold, feathers, cats, dogs, poplar fluff, etc. I've been battling it ever since. And one by one, after that, my aunts and uncles also started developing allergies out of nowhere. My mom also has bad allergies now. We all have bad acid reflux. As does my dh, and my brother, and several uncles, all of us who developed it within a short period of time. I'm convinced there was something in the environment, starting 15 years ago or so, that started changing and that it has affected our food supply also.

I remember reading that a small increase in CO2 and global temperatures resulted in a much greater increase in pollen from plants such as ragweed, I wonder if that somehow has increased with all the plants, and that, along with genetically modified foods, and an increase in chemicals has simply overwhelmed and confused our immune systems to such an extent, and so pervasively across large populations, that we'll never know what the exact trigger was.

[gollygee]

138. My dad had two friends in the 60s who had kids die of nut allergies

I think there wasn't as much knowledge about it so kids just died of the allergies more often.

[argonchloride]

156. You're applying current techniques to autopsy 50 year old corpses?

Isn't that just a little Fristian?

[gollygee]

183. They had autopsies back in the 60s that showed they died of peanut allergies

I'm speculating as to why we see more nut allergies now than then, which is what everyone else here is doing as well.

[alarimer]

170. There is some evidence that it is caused by avoiding all exposure.

Our obsession with cleanliness is causing things like this. The immune systems are not being exercised and this is causing allergies like this. Plus it is overreaction on the part of parents. All food allergies kill a couple of dozen people a year or at best a few hundred.

[Tesha]

184. See the "Hygiene Hypothesis"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis

[gollygee]

186. I have friends who avoid nuts and legums while pregnant and breastfeeding

thinking it will keep their kids from developing allergies. But I've also read what you say - avoiding that exposure might actually make things worse. I don't avoid potential allergens. My daughter doesn't have any allergies, but I don't know if that's the reason. There are some food allergies in my family.

[Dorian Gray]

192. I have to say

::small voice::: I sort of agree with you....

(Flame retardant suit on now!)

[Warren Stupidity]

197. I'm not really taking a position here.

I really don't understand how and why nut allergies, serious nut allergies, are now common. As I said, where were the nut allergy kids when I was growing up in the 50's? Either we didn't notice them or they stayed home or serious nut allergies are now far more common than they were 50 years ago. Why?

[Dorian Gray]

213. I should have been more clear about what I think, too

I do think that dangerous nut allergies DO exist. I also think that some people are more hyper-sensitive to foods these days, and insist that they have dangerous allergies when they don't necessarily. I also have friends who insist that their children have bad allergies, and keep them from certain foods, but the only symptom is a tingling tongue.

I wonder if allowing someone to eat those foods would help them build up an immunity to them. (Like eating local honey will help one build up an immunity to pollen.)

But, of course, I wouldn't advocate that if one suffered more serious reactions to foods. I am lactose intolerant, and I love cheese and ice cream. I've fought it slightly by taking pro-biotic supplements, and I continue to eat a certain amount of lactose a day. But I certainly don't have a dangerous reaction to food containing lactose.

[PM Martin]

2. My mother is allergic to peanuts and almonds.

Who is this jackass? :wtf:

[exboyfil]

6. My precious niece almost died from a reaction to peanuts

The guy is an idiot of epic proportions.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

23. Maybe if you weren't so liberal your mother wouldn't be allergic to peanuts.

Have you seriously considered the effects of your political leanings on the health and well being of your family?

[Tesha]

185. I've noticed that quite a few of your posts are merely "hurling bombs".

Have you considered why you do this?

Tesha

[argonchloride]

3. Well, he does have a point...peanut butter is main ingredient in that stuff they feed starving

kids in Africa, there hasn't been an epidemic from it that I've noticed. And peanuts are not nuts anyway, they're legumes.

[ljm2002]

13. Yes, I'm sure they keep scrupulous records...

...of all the adverse reactions of the starving kids in Africa. The same way they keep records of the adverse reactions of people in Third World countries to products that are not allowed for sale in the U.S... sure they do.

While it is true, there are some over-reactions in trying to protect consumers, please don't minimize allergies. They are often life-threatening. My own food allergy is pretty rare although not unheard-of -- I'm allergic to regular fish, but not shellfish. Stuff can sneak up on you. Most restaurants would not dream of serving shellfish and letting you think it's regular fish -- but they will serve you fake crab, or fake scallops, both of which I've had in restaurants only to get the dreaded itchy mouth at the first bite. While itchy mouth and hives are unpleasant enough, they are not life-threatening -- but some fish, like red snapper, will send me to the hospital. I've known about this allergy since I was 5 years old and my mom cooked red snapper for dinner -- my eyes swelled shut and my throat started to close up. It's no laughing matter. Given my age, I can say with some authority that these sorts of allergies have indeed existed long before they entered the public awareness. Seems that peanut allergies are more common than the one I have, and I have no objection to measures being taken to prevent tragedies based on more knowledge. If that means better labeling, hey, I'm all for it.

[Ms. Toad]

129. We had a fight with a restaurant chain over labeling.

My daughter has an allergy to poultry. She has known since she was in elementary school that she cannot eat mystery meat without confirming that the mystery meat does not include poultry. She ate a taco made with meat labeled taco "beef," assuming that beef meant meat from a cow. A few days later, her ulcerative colitis was out of remission (the allergic reaction makes her gut attack the chicken and once it starts attacking, it forgets the original target of the attack and just keeps attacking anything in sight - including her colon).

When we went back to the restaurant a week or so later, the potential reason she came out of remission clicked and we asked the workers to verify the content of the taco "beef." Sure enough, it was ground poultry - not beef. We explained the matter to them - that mislabeling things could be dangerous for people with allergies, and that "beef" means that the meat comes from a cow. Labeling it taco meat would be fine - meat could be anything animal and my (then about 7 year old) daughter knows to ask. They removed the labels, and the next time we came in it was labeled taco meat.

Unfortunately, it didn't end there. We went back a few months later - and sure enough the meat was labeled "beef" again. We hoped they had changed the content of the meat - but they hadn't. The national office had sent out new labels, and they just started using them. We took our argument to the national office, and they implemented a change from the national level.

BUT - no one should be affirmatively mislabeling foods. Not labeling things is one thing, but affirmatively stating that something is one thing when it is really something else is extremely dangerous.

FWIW, my daughter had NOTHING to eat other than breast milk until she was 9 months old (and continued to nurse for another 9 months). Breastfeeding does not provide absolute protection - and since she has both allergies and an autoimmune disorder, I'd hate to think how bad it might be had I not nursed her.

[ljm2002]

150. It's maddening that they do things like this...

...while most people don't have allergies, those who do are seriously affected if they can't identify exactly what they're eating.

I once made up a packet of Ramen, not fish flavor, and after I ate it a big white hive / welt appeared on my right cheek. It was about 2" in diameter and itched. So when I read the packet label, it seems there was some kind of fish in the flavoring -- must have been a kind that I am extremely allergic to.

Processing seems to make a difference sometimes. I've found I can eat Worcestershire sauce, even though it has some small amount of anchovies in it.

Allergies are strange.

[Ms. Toad]

151. Hidden ingredients are one thing -

we've learned to look carefully for chicken or turkey (and you would be amazed at how many apparently foods include chicken broth, chicken bullion, etc.)

The thing that really makes me angry are the affirmative mislabeling - like telling me something is beef when it is entirely made from poultry.

[ljm2002]

155. Yes, that's what gets me mad too...

...like when I ordered fettuccine with scallops, that looked just fine, those scallops were shaped just right -- only thing is, they were some sort of regular white-meat fish, cut into scallop-shaped medallions. I let them know, politely but firmly, what I thought of that sort of chicanery...

[laundry_queen]

140. I've never met someone with a fish allergy.

My brother also has a fish allergy, but not shellfish. He ended up in the hospital a few times as a kid. He also had problems with places like McDonalds cooking fries in the same oil as a filet o'fish, or as you said, people substituting real crab or lobster with the fake stuff. His allergy sounds a bit more severe than yours - we couldn't even cook it in the house growing up, but still, I've never heard of anyone else with the same type of allergy. He's known about it since toddlerhood, when he sampled a piece of smoked freshwater fish and immediately swelled up, hives, vomiting etc.
But yeah, better labeling would help everyone, especially in restaurants.

[ljm2002]

148. Yes, fish allergy is rare but not unheard-of...

...in my (mutter) years on the planet -- :-) -- I've met a grand total of two other people with allergies to scale fish rather than to shell fish.

I always joke that at least I can eat lobster! And crab, and calamari even, and strangely enough, I can eat canned tuna although I've never tried fresh tuna. But I can't eat trout, salmon, sole, or any other fish that has scales.

Weird.

[mrs_p]

159. you poor thing!

as a pacific northwest gal, salmon is my fav

[Warpy]

17. Those starving kids in Africa

got nursed for at least a year before any other food was introduced.

Only in America do we expect mothers to go back to work when they're barely healed from childbirth, far away from the babies they need to be feeding.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

25. Yeah.

Infants in Africa generally don't get to stay around long enough to find out what they're allergic to.

[argonchloride]

89. But if that were true there would be no adults there.

I don't think that's the case.
:eyes:

[haele]

4. It might be how they process the nuts now -

It might be more of a case of commercial nut allergies - have they checked if the trend includes organically produced nuts, or just nuts that were grown on commercial farms with all those pesticides and additives in the fertilizers?

Haele

[Sanctified]

7. I don't think it matters if it's commercial or organicc my daughter was eating organic peanut butter

when she had her reaction, she blew up like a balloon and it freaked me and my wife out something fierce. We were lucky that my wife is allergic to bees and carries an epipen and used it on her right away.

[argonchloride]

9. That's scary. How old is she? Was that the first time she ever ate peanut butter?

...

[Sanctified]

10. She was 3 and it was the first time she had peanuts.

My wife put some peanut butter on some toast and she just had 1 bite when I notice her mouth was getting red around the lips then she got hives on her face.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. Well you should just stop being such a goddamn yuppie and then it would be fine.

Back when I was a kid, if we had an allergic reaction to something, father would simply beat us with his belt and then we'd know not to have an allergic reaction again. Simple as pie. These kids today are so spoiled.

[louis-t]

5. Joel is an ass sometimes, but there is some truth

to his opinion. People DO go overboard with their hypochondria sometimes. My Mom now swears she is lactose intolerant after consuming dairy her whole life. I think she got a little gassy one time and decided that was the reason. I think the sheer numbers of people who claim they have peanut allergies is greatly inflated. And the reaction of sterilizing us all of peanuts is, to say the least, nuts.

Oh, by the way, his assertion that it's only rich liberals that exaggerate nut allergies is preposterous.

[Libertyfirst]

8. If you see a small child reacting to peanuts you may take it more seriously. n/t

[louis-t]

11. I never said it doesn't exist.

[Sanctified]

14. Your body can change as you get older.

I used to eat eggs all the time but around puberty they would make me projectile vomit with such a force that I would get black eyes. And it's only gotten worse since then, I used to be able to eat stuff with eggs in it like pankcakes or bread but now even that makes me puke. It's embarrassed to be at someones house eating dinner and all of a sudden having to make a mad dash to the restroom because they put egg in something I would have never guessed egg would be in.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

22. Fine, but attributing hypochondria to political leanings is dumb as dirt.

This is a hit piece designed to do nothing more than attribute great peril to a relatively innocuous issue and then affix it to people of a certain political persuasion in order to degrade them. It's crap.

[Caretha]

119. You win

The "That's Political Crapola Award" on this thread for correctly pointing out the obvious right wing propaganda in MSM.

If I had a great pic of a bronzed repub dick, I'd post it for you. :)

[Flying Dream Blues]

104. Allergies often develop over time, and if your mother is not otherwise a hypochondriac

then she probably IS lactose intolerant. Why would anyone quit consuming something they enjoy just to avoid a little gassiness? I'm used to eat lots of things that now make me sick...and rather than that being a drama I enjoy, I actually miss eating bread, milk and other things, but I don't do it because the pain is not worth it, and I promise you I'm not a hypochondriac.

[Canuckistanian]

12. Yeah, right

Because "yuppie parents" LOVE depriving their kids of their favorite foods and NEVER get their kids tested for allergies.

Sheesh.

[mainer]

15. Yet peanut allergies are unheard of in Africa

Peanuts are such a major part of our evolutionary heritage. There are some experts who believe children should be exposed early, and repeatedly, to peanuts -- and that mothers should be eating peanuts while breastfeeding. It introduces children's immune systems to nuts as something that's a continuing part of their environment.

It goes along with the latest theories that asthma and allergies are a result of our overly clean society. We need to be exposed to dust so our immune systems don't overreact. Children who grow up on farms, it's said, never have asthma.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

24. The "overly clean theory" is bull, I think.

I grew up in a dirty house with no air conditioning, dirt, dust, dog hair flying through it, parents that smoked, lots of air pollution, and I always had a runny nose growing up and tons of allergies. I still have them.


My immune system still overreacts. I was a child over forty years ago.

:wtf:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

26. There are multiple layers of nonsense here.

First of all, no matter how many antiseptic and anti-allery products you use there is still plenty of mold and dust in your house. The idea that these products create a "clean" environment is marketing nonsense propogated by the companies that sell these products. And as soon as you walk out the door you're subject to the same mold, dust, pollution, and crud as everyone else. And if you're a child, then you get on the schoolbus and are subjected to ten times the amount of crud. It's nonsense, bunk, crap, idiocy, and I'm running out of adjectives so I'll simply say:

People who believe they can make their environment clean are deluded. People who think that a dirty environment is deadly are even more deluded.

[MH1]

100. A dirty environment may not be deadly and a 100% clean environment may be impossible,

but I for one have absolutely positively correlated the level of dust in my bedroom (as noted by time between serious cleanings) and the severity of my allergy-like symptoms.

Sure, there's other factors. But letting dust accumulate in my room definitely is a major factor. And oh, the "didn't get exposed as a child" theory is bunk, because my own house has never been as dusty as the one I grew up in.

I decided to fire my ENT doc after just a few visits because I saw the $$$ signs in his eyes, and have determined that a more rigorous cleaning regimen is really all I need. I only went to see him about another problem anyway. But he was trying his darnedest to steer me into recurring allergy treatments. No thank you. I'll suffer with the (relatively mild for me) symptoms rather than take a bunch of meds that I don't really need. My first impression of his office was "allergy industrial complex" and my second and third visits did not change that impression.

But I do know people who have severe allergic reactions and this is not to make light of their cases. I just think too many people like me get sucked into the system and suckered into recurring meds that they don't need.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

106. Well, yeah.

I have the same thing. If I let my bedroom get too dusty I start having respiratory issues - nothing severe, mind you - just a sniffle or two in the morning. This makes complete sense to me, seeing as I'm breathing in tons of particulate matter and God only knows what other kinds of irritants. However, that's a far cry from saying that an environment free of dust (impossible anyway) is harmful, and that's the point where I have to start taking issue with some of the above statements.

[mainer]

199. It's well-documented

in utero exposure seems to be necessary. If you're getting allergies now as an adult, it simply may mean you didn't have exposure to allergens while you were still in utero.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/119353.php

Peanut allergies are unheard of in China. Peanut oil is a common ingredient in their cooking, and everyone gets exposed to it.
Peanut allergies are unheard of in Africa. Peanuts are a vital source of protein there for everyone.

[knitter4democracy]

208. Are they really unheard of?

China's got a huge population, and I could see someone dying of a reaction without everyone around knowing that the peanuts were the cause. Nut allergies are an old, old phenomenon, but many people died as children without their parents knowing that it was the nuts and not something else.

[knitter4democracy]

207. I grew up on a farm. I had and still have asthma. So does my dad.

He could barely breathe during hay season. I remember a couple of close calls with him. I had the cough variant as a kid, and they didn't know about that at the time, so I just coughed and coughed and coughed all the time.

My kids have asthma, cough variant like I did (mine's full-blown now). I don't use toxic cleaners or antimicrobials, and with two aquariums, a dog, and a cat, it's not like our house is sterile.

Oh, and my kids were allergic to apples as babies. And mangos and cantelope--and those were with early exposure in breastmilk and as food. Explain that one.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

18. This piece is idiotic.

If I was allergic to straw I'd be in the damned hospital from all the straw men thrown up in this piece. What a useless pile of turd. I've lived with someone with a genuine allergy to peanuts (of the sort that is capable of landing you in the hospital on short notice) I've no idea what could possibly lead him to believe that peanut allergies are only an "issue" in affluent or left-leaning communities. I'm fairly sure that my former housemate's peanut allergy was entirely disinterested in his economic status or his political leanings. I'm sure the hives and respiratory problems were purely psychosomatic.

What an idiot.

[foo_bar]

27. correct answer.

A few years ago, I was at a bar without food, so I started downing peanuts. Around the third bowl, I started coughing and felt this itchiness in the back of my throat, which I quickly treated with beer. Still, for a few minutes, I was convinced that a peanut allergy was about to kill me. If the beer had not made me forget the incident, I might have avoided nuts for the rest of my life. Or, worse, bored everyone at the table with my questions about nut allergies.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-stein9-2009jan09,0,3149168.column?track=rss

There you have it: the author isn't allergic to peanuts, therefore anaphylaxis is a myth, especially when it happens to nearly every kind of mammal. :wank emoticons:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

33. Obviously those are yuppie mammals.

I'm pretty sure the dog had a Louis Vuitton bag.

[SidDithers]

126. Got that :wank emoticon: for you...

Cheers.

Sid

[Canuckistanian]

109. Indeed

Parents don't just decide that their kids are allergic just because of peer pressure or the need for attention.

It's because their kids have had a violent reaction to an allergen and it scared them to death.
It's funny how parents will react forcefully after their kid's life was almost taken from them.

One of my former classmates from high school is a tireless advocate for nut allergy issues after her daughter developed a peanut allergy and almost died. She was part of a movement to get proper labelling on snack foods that may contain nut traces.

This guy is either a complete idiot, a shill for the nut industry or both.

[Tindalos]

29. Awareness of an issue = panic.

Therefore, keep your children safe by not educating them (or yourself). And for goodness sake, don't get them tested by actual doctors or anything. :sarcasm:

[AZ Criminal JD]

31. Stein is absolutely correct

Nut allergies are a modern physic invention. The human body has not changed in the last few generations and no one in previous generations had the problem. They didn't have enough time or money on their hands to sit around and dream up nonsense.

[tammywammy]

32. Which clearly explains why my nephew gets hives and can barely breathe if he has peanuts

He's just faking it. :eyes:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

34. My sarcasm detector is broken.

Is this supposed to be sarcasm or not?

[AZ Criminal JD]

36. How come this exists in just the last 10 or 15 years?

Was there a massive conspiracy by the media and medical profession to cover it up?

[tammywammy]

37. Is there a massive conspiracy among toddlers to invent a peanut allergy? n/t

[AZ Criminal JD]

40. No. Stupidity and medical ignorance by their lazy parents.

[tammywammy]

42. Really?

I'll be sure to tell my Dr SIL she's stupid and medically ignorant b/c her son has a peanut allergy.

[AZ Criminal JD]

46. I would tell her if I had the contact info.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

52. Why don't you give US some info.

Like perhaps a study backing up your assertions. They have those in Alabama, don't they? I mean, I know you guys don't have hospitals and doctors because you're not rich yuppie liberals like the rest of us anti-nutites, but you must at least have medical journals, right? you don't just kill your kids and bury them in the back yard when they get infections, right?

[AZ Criminal JD]

63. A study trying to disprove a made-up assertion? LOL

You don't know much about logic do you? BTW I am in Arizona now but my screen name can't be changed.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alittlelark]

101. I'm 45 and have had anaphalactic nut allergies since 2 yrs old.

It's been quite a bit longer than 10 or 15 years.

[Critters2]

114. Peanuts aren't nuts. They're legumes. nt

[alittlelark]

115. They are the ONLY legume I am allergic to.

[annabanana]

105. I am nearly 60. I have an allergy to most tree nuts.. a serious, anaphylactic

response inducing allergy. I have been allergic to them all my life. When I have a minimal exposure, the inside of my mouth gets really itchy and my eyes water. If I accidentally bite down on one, my throat starts to constrict and I have trouble breathing.

I am the one who squishes all the chocolates in a box to see what's inside. I read all cookie and candy wrappers. When raspberry vinaigrette dressing made with walnut oil became trendy..I had to start investigating the provenance of the salads I encountered.

I have gotten pretty good at avoiding exposure. You'll never catch ME scoffing at these allergies.

[SidDithers]

128. Charles Richet won the Nobel Prize in Medicine in 1913...

for his research into anaphylaxis. Now, even you can see that's more than 10 to 15 years ago, can't you?

In 1913, he was awarded the Nobel Prize for his researches on anaphylaxis. He invented this word to designate the sensitivity developed by an organism after it had been given a parenteral injection of a colloid or protein substance or a toxin (1902). Later he demonstrated the facts of passive anaphylaxis and anaphylaxis in vitro. The applications of anaphylaxis to medicine are extremely numerous. Already in 1913, over 4000 memoirs had been published on this question and it plays an important part nowadays in pathology. He showed that in fact parenteral injection of protein substance modifies profoundly and permanently the chemical constitution of the body fluids. Most of Charles Richet's physiological works scattered in various scientific journals were published in the Travaux du Laboratoire de la Faculté de Médecine de Paris (Alcan, Paris, 6 vols. 1890-1911) (Works of the Physiological Laboratory of the Faculty of Medicine, Paris).

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1913/richet-bio.html

Sid

[roseBudd]

39. stein is not a doctor...

Characteristics of food-allergic patients placing them at risk for a fatal anaphylactic episode.
Muñoz-Furlong A, Weiss CC.
Curr Allergy Asthma Rep. 2009 Jan;9(1):57-63.

Increasing anaphylaxis hospitalizations in the first 2 decades of life: New York State, 1990 -2006.
Lin RY, Anderson AS, Shah SN, Nurruzzaman F.
Ann Allergy Asthma Immunol. 2008 Oct;101(4):387-93.

Transfer of peanut allergy from the donor to a lung transplant recipient.
Khalid I, Zoratti E, Stagner L, Betensley AD, Nemeh H, Allenspach L.
J Heart Lung Transplant. 2008 Oct;27(10):1162-4. Epub 2008 Aug 27.

Isolation and partial characterization of a major peanut allergen.
Sachs MI, Jones RT, Yunginger JW.
J Allergy Clin Immunol. 1981 Jan;67(1):27-34.

[AZ Criminal JD]

44. You know little about "research" articles by professionals

I can take you to the basement of a major university library and you will find thousands of research journals and countless articles that will prove almost anything on earth and beyond. They are pounded out constantly to justify grant money and job tenure.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

55. That's funny.

Somehow I don't think you step foot in the libraries of major universities very often. Just a hunch.

I mean, no shirt, no shoes, no service. And we know how you dislike dressin' up fancy.

[AZ Criminal JD]

60. After I graduated law school I don't get into them as often as I used to.

Now people who work for me get any materials I might need from the major university library which is across the street from my office.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

64. You practice law?

I knew standards in Alabama were low, but jesus fucking christ.

Also, lol @ "major university library" in Alabama.

[AZ Criminal JD]

66. I am in Arizona now.

I am across the street from the biggest university in the United States. Do a google if you don't know what it is.

[katusha]

70. again are you lying? or too lazy to change your profile?

it clearly says BIRMINGHAM ALABAMA.

also ohio state is not in arizona

http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2008/10/20/daily3.html

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

72. Yes it is.

Ohio State moved to Arizona back in the 70s, before the internet and peanut allergies.

Also, BIRMINGHAM ALABAMA is in Arizona, near Cleveland, Arizona and the Arizona Lake Erie. You just have the incorrect map. Sheesh, sort yourself out.

[katusha]

73. thanks i was getting confused n/t

[AZ Criminal JD]

75. ASU is the biggest now.

3000 more than OSU this year and is moving to 100,000 students shortly. Changing addresses on my profile is not my first priority in life. I must be messed up.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

77. So arguing an idiot point contrary to accepted medical science...

...is more important to you than updating your address, eh? And being across the street from a university, that's important. And bragging that you have people who work for you, that's very very important. Sorry, but you're really doing a very, very bad job of propping up your self-importance right about now.

[AZ Criminal JD]

82. It is not "accepted medical science"

Any judge in the U.S. (at the appellate level anyway) would toss you from the courtroom if you attempted to say that.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[katusha]

90. so far you've been wrong on every count

with nothing to even back it up. you don't even know what state you're supposed to be in, you've castigated others for not using spellcheck while misspelling things yourself, you don't recognize an allergy that doctors treat as real, you misstated the largest university in the united states, you claim to be a lawyer but can't argue cogently, and now we are supposed to believe your blanket statement about appellate judges?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

93. How the fuck did we even get onto the subjects of circuit courts and the size of OSU anyway?

Oh yeah, coz he never had a cogent argument to begin with. Now I remember.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

98. Don't insult iron workers like that.

At least they produce something other than bullshit.

[katusha]

99. true, true, my apologies to iron workers. n/t

[AZ Criminal JD]

125. No, other people brought that up if you look at the posts.

[AZ Criminal JD]

94. Why would you even reply to me then?

Did you go to OSU or something? Is that why you are so disturbed it is number 2?

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[katusha]

108. why wouldn't i reply to you?

misinformation should be corrected.

[katusha]

78. you can do better than that

at least provide some sort of evidentiary link to prove the number you cite.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

71. That's nice.

I'm across the street from the biggest cesspit in eastern England. I guess that makes me... wait, no, that doesn't make me anything... except someone with poor taste in rental housing.

[depakid]

88. Practicing law doesn't require scientific acumen

Proof and reasoning in sience (and public health) is quite different than law, where you can simply pull up cases to advocate or defend most any proposition via rhetorical logic.

Andrew S Kemp, Professor, Allergy Immunology and Infectious Diseases, The Children’s Hospital at Westmead, NSW shows how to reason with the problem:

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/183_05_050905/letters_050905_fm-3.html

and ASCIA (The Ausralasian Sociey for Clinical Immunology and Allegy) gives a nice summary of the nature of Peanut, Tree Nut and Seed Allergies here:

http://www.allergy.org.au/content/view/133/145/

[Ms. Toad]

136. Actually, as someone with more than a passing

acquaintance with both, the proof and reasoning isn't all that different. (I have degrees, and have taught, in both the law and science.)

That is not to defend the attorney arguing in this thread - who has not displayed anything close to either legal or scientific reasoning - just to point out that competent practice of the law requires more than simply pulling up cases to defend your proposition. When practiced well, it requires the same kind of fact and principle (statute or cases) based reasoning that scientific analysis requires. Unfortunately, the truism that people to to law school because they can't handle math or science does have a grain of truth - and incompetent practice by the flashy few who fall into that category give far too many people the same impression that you do - that practicing law is just a matter of being a slick salesman.

[depakid]

153. There's overlap of course

the classic case being the Brandeis Brief- and similar approaches. You'd probably also agree that it depends very much on the type and context of the law or medicine -or public health being practiced.

Law often involves fictions and constructs that aren't scientific- and may even be inimical to science, such as tranferred intent (known in Australia as constructive intent) which is being discussed in LBN at the moment:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3681865&mesg_id=3681865

Ideally, we'd like to see more lawyers with a sense of propriety who follow "best practives" of jurisprudence, so to speak- but there's often a lot of grey to exploit- and that's not necessarily a "bad thing."

Some cases are wrongly decided- and some statutes ill advised- so attempts to distinguish them away from present fact patterns may stretch the plain meanings and logic- but are necessary to prevent injustices or protect innocent parties from undue influence or harm.

The case in Oregon about the boy whose father converted to Judaism and wanted his son circumsized is interesting in this regard. Under Oregon law, the custodial parent- the father had the clear and unfettered right to make this decision- irrespective of the boy's wishes- and over the mother's objections. When the case finally wound up before the Oregon Supreme court- they pulled a bit of a fast one, and made a ruling that would, in practice, delay the procedure until the boy was of the age (15) to himself consent to medical procedure.

A good and just result, I think- though I'm sure we could easily find dozens of cases with poor results that come from the application of similarly equivocal reasoning.

It's a very interesting topic.

btw: it also works the other way- there are a lot of physicians (or scientists) who are pretty well clueless about basic legal processes and reasoning.

At times, this can be astonishing...

;)

[Ms. Toad]

167. Just like bad law, there is also bad science

Usually that happens on the edge of either field, where the existing case law doesn't dictate a clear result - or where scientific principles/current research doesn't clearly answer the question being asked. In either field, when the envelope is pushed the early path does not always serve well moving forward, and requires correction by future practitioners.

Sometimes those misssteps are innocent - when you're on the cutting edge it's sometimes hard to predict which of two plausible explanations/decisions will ultimately prove correct. Sometimes they are not so innocent, twisted by the bias of either the researcher or judge who is biased by a particular outcome.

I can read some of Scalia's opinions and absolutely agree that his reasoning is well supported by law. I may not agree that that where he ends up is where the law should be, but he isn't wrong based on applying the existing law to the case at hand using the same kind of meticulous, logical reasoning applicable to scientific analysis. (Many of his opinions on criminal matters fall into this category.)

On the other hand - there are times he wanders off the ranch - and the law is completely irrelevant to his position (his opinions in cases involving homosexuality come to mind).

- When I encounter physicians who have problem with reasoning who are treating me or my family, I make it my business to stretch their abilities.

[roseBudd]

110. risk for a fatal anaphylactic episode as in FATAL, fatal is not imaginary

[katusha]

47. are you serious?

if you are then you are an ass!


Fifty-four percent of fatal food allergic reactions reported in the United States from 2001-2006 were from peanuts.
Reports of death from peanut allergy in 2008 include:

-Andrew Michael Smith (age 8) died February 2008 after he accidentally came into contact with peanut allergens at home.
-Carol Kiener, (age 66) died March 2008 after suffering a severe allergic reaction to peanuts.
-Paul Anthony Thurston (age 30) died April 2008 after being served a peanut butter & jelly sandwich in jail.
-Daniel Sargent (age 30) died July 2008 after eating a cookie that had peanut butter in it at a party.
-Brian Hom II (age 18) died July 2008 after eating a dessert containing traces of peanuts while at a resort in Cabo San Lucas.
-Dexter Skinner (age 16) died July 2008 after eating a chocolate bar.
-Mark Nicholson (age 28) died November 2008 after eating a chilli burger that was suspected of having an ingredient derived from peanuts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_allergy

[AZ Criminal JD]

51. You are citing Wikipedia as an authoritative source?

Do you have any idea at all how info gets in Wikipedia?

[foo_bar]

53. for us libruls who can't tell if you're being sarcastic... what are your thoughts on evolution?

The earth is pancake-shaped, correct?

[AZ Criminal JD]

56. Does calling yourself a "liberal" mean you believe any bullshit that is thrown your way?

Apparently so in your case.

[foo_bar]

61. gotcha. so you aren't kidding?

[katusha]

57. everyone of those has a source attributed

but hey you're too stupid to actually use a computer so here is NIH for your assness to chew on.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=152593

you have a computer why don't you learn to use it.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

59. Actually he was citing a press release from the food allergy & anaphylaxis network

Which you would know if you bothered to spend more than two seconds reading what was posted. But since you've already stated your aversion to text and fancy book learnin' at librul universities it's really irrelevant what he chose to cite, isn't it?

[distantearlywarning]

62. I've seen some really stupid posts on DU during the 5 years I've been here

But I have to say, I think this is quite possibly the most stupid post I've ever seen here.

Wow. Just wow. It's hard to know what to even say about this.

:crazy:

[AZ Criminal JD]

69. Come on you can come up with something

I know you can.

[baby_mouse]

179. Alternatively...

"are you sure you want to ignore this person?"

[Phillycat]

214. Seriously.

When I was in first grade, in the 70's, there was a kid in my class who was allergic to nuts. The nurse had an epi pen on hand for him all the time.

There have ALWAYS been kids with nut allergies. It's just they weren't necessarily identifiable before.

[mudesi]

80. Can we PLEASE ban stupid people from posting here?

Please?

[AZ Criminal JD]

83. Do you think you will make the cut?

[Pithlet]

113. DU is one of the smarter places on the net

But even it isn't immune from the slack jawed stupid, unfortunately.

[baby_mouse]

180. God, wouldn't that be GREAT? BUT...

The ignore function works, really. You know what? After I started using it properly I noticed that almost ALL the little diagonal subthreads stuffed with worthless "why are assuming" and "how would you know" and "I think your confusing me with" crud were populated by the same people. I mean FREAKILY so, DU has thousands of members and my ignore list is only up to about 50 and the number of flamewars I've had to subject myself to to get through a thread has dropped to an absolutely *miniscule* percentage of it's previous level.

DU has CONTENT, real, useful content and it's very easy to block out the idiots.

[SoCalDem]

147. There may have been people who were born with a sensitivity to

nuts or other allergens, but perhaps they died too young to procreate and pass it on,....or their death was attributed to some other reason..

The NOTORIETY given to serious food allergies is a modern phenomenon, but the allergies probably existed before..just in smaller numbers or the deaths from them, gone unnoticed.

One thing I firmly believe in though, is the "too clean" theory.. Modern cleaning materials are CHEMICAL-LADEN time-bombs for many people.. Perhaps some/most peopl can shrug their effects off, or "store" them until later when a tipping point is reached, but for some people, I'm sure those chemicals can be deadly..

No one in our family was seriously allergic (husband's hay-fever, we don't count)and my house is definitely NOT "laboratory-clean".. My kids were always allowed to "be dirty"..play in the mud, sleep with pets, be around people with colds etc....and they were rarely sick or allergic..

(except for our youngest's bee-sting/wasp allergy)

To the contrary, friends of mine whose kids were always sick and were allergic to everything, lived in "super clean" environs..

We are so overloaded by chemical assaults every day and everywhere, who knows why exactly this is happening.. People can file lawsuits until the end of time, and there will probably never be any definitive "proof" of what ONE thing caused "it"..

[knitter4democracy]

209. Not new. Read medieval lit.

It's in there, so no, it's not new.

[DailyGrind51]

43. Joel Stein is another John Stossel, both agendized idiots!

[ileus]

45. there was no such thing in the 70&80's..now it's trendy.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

48. Cite?

Please give us some factual information to back up your assertion.

[foo_bar]

49. bullshit.

Seventy-six children aged 5 months to 15 years who exhibited a net weal of 3.0 mm or greater to a puncture skin test with one or more of fourteen foods were subjected to double-blind food challenge. Confirmed reactions to double-blind food challenge were found to occur only with peanut, milk, egg and soybean.

Clin Allergy. 1978 Nov;8(6):559-64.

[foo_bar]

50. bullshit.

Seventy-six children aged 5 months to 15 years who exhibited a net weal of 3.0 mm or greater to a puncture skin test with one or more of fourteen foods were subjected to double-blind food challenge. Confirmed reactions to double-blind food challenge were found to occur only with peanut, milk, egg and soybean.

Clin Allergy. 1978 Nov;8(6):559-64.

[AZ Criminal JD]

54. So we should ban peanuts, milk, eggs and soybeans.

How come you just bolded "peanuts" and not the others. This based on a sentence that means nothing written in 1978.

[foo_bar]

58. wtf?

How come you just bolded "peanuts" and not the others.

Same reason "1978" is highlighted; it nullifies the argument that "there was no such thing in the 70&80's..now it's trendy", or so I thought until you stared the evidence in the face and declared it ... over your head? Librul post-Enlightenment brainwashing?

So we should ban peanuts, milk, eggs and soybeans.

Since you aren't expending any effort on lame strawmen, why not go all out and say I want to ban cats and dogs?

[AZ Criminal JD]

124. Oh that is coming, rest assured.

All sorts of people complain about pet allergies. We will soon hear about "second-hand" pet allergies because animals are out and about. It won't be long.

[Pithlet]

144. Yeah. They're already making people turn in their pets! Wait.

That hasn't happened yet. One single time. Ever. So, I can understand your concern there... :crazy:

[AZ Criminal JD]

194. Wait it is.

http://www.allergizer.com/50226711/air_canada_bans_pets_on_cabins_to_reduce_allergens.php There are dozens of articles about various bans on pets. Learn to read.

[tabasco]

81. A lawyer claiming that nut allergies don't exist.

Any dumbass can make it through law school.

Thank goodness they make medical school considerably more difficult.

[AZ Criminal JD]

85. I am a criminal lawyer. I don't sue people.

So I don't have to make shit up to try and get a few bucks from someone. Medical school is not harder it is longer because it takes medical students a long time to get passing grades.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

87. What does this mean?

So I know have to make shit up to try and get a few bucks from someone.

What does "know have to make shit up" mean? Is this a legal term?

[katusha]

91. you're a lawyer, and I'm the king of the Moon

if i say it it must be true right? you have provided no evidence of your assertions so as the saying goes put up or shut up.

[AZ Criminal JD]

132. What do you want - my bar number?

I didn't bring up being a lawyer to back up any argument. It was brought up in response to something another poster said about me. I don't think being an attorney is better or worse than any other job. In fact I was a steelworker -- not iron worker as someone posted -- before going to law school.

[katusha]

139. o-ho so i was right!

nothing you say is believable once you've ruined you're credibility by lying incessantly.

[Two Americas]

111. lol

Go get 'em bama. People have lost their minds on this subject, haven't they?

I suppose since people cannot be authoritarian in the traditional ways that are available to Republicans and still call themselves liberals, they have to find the most absurd topics to spread fear and beat upon people and scratch the itch they have to manage and control and scold everyone.

Here is my conspiracy theory - since the corporations do not want the public to rally against the real threats to us, they plant these scare stories because they know liberals will fall for them and waste all of their time and energy on wild goose chases.

[Pithlet]

117. Except there's nothing authoritarian about accepting the existence

of a scientifically proven bona fide medical condition that people have actually died from. What, exactly, is authoritarian about that position? It's no more authoritarian than accepting the existence of AIDS, or cancer. Just because its existence isn't documented heavily throughout the ages isn't evidence that it's only made up, and the people mouldering in their graves died because it was only in their heads. That's insane.

[Two Americas]

121. there are all sorts of hazards in life

The nut scare is way out of proportion to the relative risk.

[Pithlet]

122. Yeah

And if everyone goes around believing it doesn't really exist because of these stupid articles, and stupid people like the one you're cheering on, and the waitstaff thinks it doesn't matter, my husband just thinks he's allergic but it's all in his head because it really doesn't exist so it's okay if they just put these nuts in... then bam. He's dead. Yeah. Go ahead and cheer on people who think it doesn't really exist. Call people who DO think it exists authoritarians. Go on believing yourself that it's all in people's heads. It's FUCKING STUPID to think so. And that belief CAN kill people. The more people think it isn't real? The more people are at risk. You want to go around poo pooing people who are trying to convince people it's real, and label them as Authoritarians, whatever the hell that means (that seems to be your generic go to label for anyone that disagrees with you on anything, no matter the subject) then I'm going to fucking set you straight. Because lives are at stake. Hazards? Easy for you to blithely dismiss. It's not your life at risk, is it?

[Two Americas]

131. why such hostlity?

You are shadow boxing.

I am not trying to kill your husband.

I think that people such as your husband have every right to know what they are eating, and I would support his right to not eat nuts and to be able to avoid them even if it were all in his head. What difference does it make whether or not it is "in his head" anyway? I am not arguing that if it were it would therefore be invalid. I am not saying that anything is "not real." Don't underestimate the power of auto-suggestion, and at the same time don't think that because I say that that I am saying that your husband's distress, or anyone else's is "not real." I am not.

What you are talking about is people being dismissed and not heard and respected - regardless of what the issue is - that is the real problem I think. I am completely sympathetic with your husband on this. He should not have to prove anything about nut allergies to anyone in order to have control over his own life and know what he is eating. Along those lines, I have been a tireless activist for stronger labeling laws for foods and tighter regulations and inspections in my work in agriculture.

We have a long way to go yet in understanding food allergies and why we are seeing an apparent increase in them. I suspect that there may well be environmental factors and also stress factors, and also synergistic effects from combining a variety of irritants. I completely understand people's need for control, and their sense that they have little or none. Strengthening the public food and agriculture infrastructure is what we should be advocating. Reigning in the corrupting influence of corporations over our food supply system is what we should be fighting for.

What I am talking about is the social and political ramifications of these scare campaigns, and I believe that those put your husband at greater risk, not less risk.

[Pithlet]

135. You were defending a person who says it doesn't exist

and dismissing the people trying to tell him otherwise as authoritarians. That's why the hostility. As to the rest of your post? I don't even know how to begin. Don't underestimate the power of autosuggestion? Please. People die. Do you think babies and toddlers are autosuggesting themselves to death? How to reconcile that with your next paragraph, which is perfectly nice. It's like you talk out of both sides of your mouth. Yes, absolutely, strengthen public food and agriculture infrastructure. But, please, don't help spread ignorance. That doesn't help. Joel Stein's article is just plain ignorance. It is ignorance that can kill. THAT is why the hostility. Please don't encourage the ignorance. And, yes, it is infuriating to hear someone blithely dismiss as merely some hazard something that is deadly to a loved one like that. It's easy for you to say. It's rather easy to react in a hostile manner to something like that. It's not hard to take a little tact with such a subject, you know?

I don't know. I don't even know how to reconcile the person who posted that beautiful piece on the mistakes we straight people make, which I heartily kicked and reced and thought was one of the best things I ever read on DU, with some of the other things you post sometimes. I first took real notice of you with that post. But, it's like there's more than one person that uses your account. I honestly don't get you.

Sorry for the multiple edits. I cannot type tonight.

[Two Americas]

145. a suggestion

Why don't we discuss this and reach an understanding?

I see now how my remarks seemed callous. I don't blame you for being hostile now that you explain yourself better.

You go first - I will shut up and listen and won't argue. I don't want there to be so much hard feeling and miscommunication between us.

[Pithlet]

158. That sounds nice.

Thanks. I really appreciate. Okay, here goes. Here's my take on it:

Peanut allergies are indeed very real. Some have them so severely that the reaction is instant and deadly. It's not pseudoscience. There is plenty of documented evidence that it is real and not autosuggestion, and it is every bit as real as cancer, or AIDS, or diabetes. And it's not new, as is being claimed. It isn't common, though. I don't understand the thought that it's made up. It makes no more sense than to be skeptical about any other new disease, condition or diagnosis that's come down the pike in the last 40 or so years. Unless one is skeptical of modern medicine, there's just no reason to be. And peanut allergies have been around longer than that. To think they aren't real is just stubborn ignorance, and nothing more. It's not something that can easily be faked. You either have a reaction, or you don't. I don't get how those who are skeptical think people can muster an anaphylactic shock. How would one go about doing such a thing? And if some people are lying? Well why would there be a higher percentage of fakers than any other affliction? Why would their be more motivation to fake that affliction than any other? I can't think of any. Seems it would be just about the same.

Some claim there is an overreaction, but I think it just may be the media overblowing the reaction. My older son's school doesn't even have one of those bans that some articles love to point to as the demise of society. This is his second elementary school; the first one didn't have that ban, either. In fact, I don't even know of any in our district that do. One person I know of who sends their child to a school with such a policy, and it's not even schoolwide. They just set up one section of the cafeteria as peanut free. Not even the whole school. My younger son's preschool is peanut free, but they do all the cooking. We don't pack anything. I think the bans themselves are actually not that common and the media just make a big deal over them, especially when the accommodations are unusual, like the bus incident, and people take notice. It's a subject du jour. I just saw the article you posted in this thread in another blog yesterday. Everyone's talking about it. I think both issues are overblown in the media. But, really, it's not such a huge accommodation to begin with. Just pack something else. I don't see what the big deal is, anyway. Adults can and should take their own responsibility, but kids are are pretty much captive at school. It's not too much to ask. The kid could die. Make your kid a PBJ when they get home.

[Two Americas]

162. thank you

Would you say that when people talk about "nut allergies" they are mostly talking about peanuts?

[Pithlet]

164. When talking about the deadly food allergies? Yes. Peanuts and tree nuts.

Causes around 200 deaths a year.

[Two Americas]

163. that could well be

"Some claim there is an overreaction, but I think it just may be the media overblowing the reaction."

That could certainly be true. It would not be the first time, would it? "Ridicule by hyperbole."

"I don't understand the thought that it's made up."

I can explain that at some point, and I will pass along to you an interesting article. Being in agriculture, we hear an amazing variety of complaints about food allergies and notions about nutrition, and of course we hear many things that are based on pseudo-science. I never argue with people in that context, and am always respectful and considerate - which I was not with you, and I apologize. But that can wait, because I want to make sure I understand what you are saying before I shoot my big mouth off again.

[Pithlet]

165. I'll word that differently

In the face of scientific evidence to the contrary, I don't understand the thought that it's made up. It's a documented reaction. It can be tested for by real medical doctors. It's not a condition that a significant portion of the medical community even questions, that I know of. It's not even as though it's really all that controversial in the medical community. I've never seen an article where an actual doctor questions its existence. Just to be sure, I googled. Now, I know that's not exactly the most reliable. But, it seems to me that if even a few doctors questioned its existence, I would have been able to find SOMETHING to that effect. But the only controversy I could find was on its prevention. Not on whether it actually existed.

[Two Americas]

166. I wasn't denying ignorance on my part

I was in charge of tracking down and researching various food claims for several years at work, regarding nutrition, toxicity and allergies. That often involved weeks of work on one food, and meeting with the researchers and reading all of the research. So I should know better than to jump to conclusions, is my point. But since so many of the claims were hoaxes, I became jaded. Still, I never dismissed or ridiculed anyone from the public, and since all calls regarding nutrition and toxicity were routed to my desk I probably spoke with several thousand consumers. As you can imagine, I heard it all.

[Pithlet]

168. Oh, I'm sure you did.

I can only imagine. I bet you could write a book :rolf:

[Two Americas]

169. thanks

I appreciate your patience. I am going to research this subject.

By the way, I am convinced that people have a "relationship" with their food that involves mind and body, so I don't think that "in their minds" necessarily invalidates what they are saying or experiencing. Also, people's intuitions are often correct, we found, and there is a small percentage of the population that is super-sensitive including being able to taste and smell things that others cannot. I have that, and in food plants I have often been asked to taste test fruit and fruit products because they know that I am super fussy and that if it passes with me they won't get any complaints from the customers. I have read a couple of studies that suggested that when people feel good about their food they derive more nutrition from it, as well.

So I wasn't being totally stupid about this, just pretty stupid lol.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

92. That's not true.

Law school can be extremely difficult. It all depends on the institution. Some are easy, some are tough, and most are in between.

I am going to go out on a limb and guess that our friend here did not go to one of the tough ones. Though given his strange ideas regarding qualifications he may be proud of having gone to the one with the largest number of vending machines.

[AZ Criminal JD]

133. Went to ASU

Ranked #52 in country last I looked. Took courses taught by one retired US Supreme Court justice and one active USSC justice. Not many law students can say that.

[katusha]

141. names please

or are we once again to accept your word as gospel without the slightest proof at all?

[AZ Criminal JD]

175. Proof? Do you want me to post my transcript?

I took one course from O'Connor and one from Scalia. I know many on this site will freak at the name of Scalia but even the most progressive law student in the country would want to take a course from any SC justice.

[Pithlet]

176. Why don't you just admit

That peanut and tree nut allergies do exist, and that you were merely mistaken. Because I don't think you really want to call the multiple people in this thread who state they or someone they love suffer from them, including myself, a liar do you? Especially not after all the evidence that's been presented. Because even the person that wrote the article being discussed doesn't outright claim they don't exist. BTW, I don't think the person that wrote it is ever really meant to be taken completely seriously. He tends to write satire. He just doesn't always do it very well. I couldn't even find a real reputable doctor or medical website going through several pages of google that stated they didn't exist. So, are you still going to cling to that position? That just doesn't seem very logical to me, unless you can actually present some good solid evidence to the contrary. It would be easy to do. Because whenever a diagnosis is controversial, plenty of doctors are very vocal about expressing why they think it's BS. So, it wouldn't be a problem to find. I couldn't find any. I imagine if I dug deeply enough, eventually I'd find some crackpot doctor. But it couldn't possibly be that controversial, or something would have popped up right away. Therefore, it's pretty commonly accepted medically.

[katusha]

177. yes, actually, you've demonstrated no reliability

on anything you've asserted so far. in the absence of trust, which you have failed to earn, some sort of verification is required. as i said earlier in the thread put up or shut up it's that easy.

[AZ Criminal JD]

187. I have failed to earn the trust of some anonymous electrons on the internet

I don't know if I can go on.

[katusha]

188. oh you will go on lying alright

still can't produce anything to back up anything you say huh? you've been wrong on everything you have stipulated in this thread. you couldn't even get the ranking of the sandra day o'conner school of law correct. if you said you were a pathetic loser i would even question that, citing the source as EXTREMELY unreliable. oh well, come back when you can elucidate a cogent argument.

[AZ Criminal JD]

189. I said it was 52 and it's 52

http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html

[katusha]

191. pathetic

you didn't even check that.

from the site that you linked to here is the nitty gritty that you didn't even bother with. you've shortchanged your alleged alma matter due to lack of due diligence.


U.S. News 2008 ranking: 51st
http://www.top-law-schools.com/arizona-state-law.html

now where are those transcripts eh? ABA number? or are you scared to be exposed for a charlatan?

[AZ Criminal JD]

193. It is 52 in my link. Please wipe your glasses granny.

It is 52 overall and 40 in educational quality. No I am not going to post my bar number and no lawyer in their right mind would do so. Talk about identity theft.

[katusha]

195. perhaps you should post as bamachicken then

bok, bok!

scared, scared, scared they'll all say. afraid of a little ol' "granny" as you put it.

[AZ Criminal JD]

198. Since you are not concerned about identity theft

Post your name, address, SS #, phone number.


Waiting......

[katusha]

200. you first bamaCHICKEN, bok, bok!

and uh, you were the one who suggested the transcripts and ABA number so go ahead unless of course you are a liar and a...

[AZ Criminal JD]

201. I am concerned about identity theft unlike you

Maybe your identity is worthless so I can see why you are not concerned. Fortunately mine is worth something. Anyone who has reading compression above elementary school knows I was asking a rhetorical question when I mentioned transcripts and bar numbers. Have someone from community services explain that to you.

[katusha]

203. oooh BamaCHICKEN is really scared now.

you're willing to play chicken with others lives vis a vis peanut allergies but are too scared to put your money where your mouth is huh? maybe it's because you can't, because it is a fantsy in your head?

[AZ Criminal JD]

204. When the social worker from community services comes over

Besides giving you a reading comprehension lesson, have them double your meds.

[katusha]

205. tsk, tsk, scared and grasping at straws

i suppose your "better" than all those folks on disability who need help from social workers huh? perhaps they should all be shot so you don't have to pay so many taxes huh? how low will you go bamaCHICKEN?

[AZ Criminal JD]

210. In my field I work with social workers all the time.

I think they are great people and that's why they might be able to help you.

[katusha]

211. since you are the one with delusions of grandeur

yes i suppose you "work" with mental health professionals all the time in your "field".

-Nut allergies are a modern physic invention. The human body has not changed in the last few generations and no one in previous generations had the problem. They didn't have enough time or money on their hands to sit around and dream up nonsense.
Sat Jan-10-09 04:16 PM Posted by bamalib

-I can take you to the basement of a major university library and you will find thousands of research journals and countless articles that will prove almost anything on earth and beyond. They are pounded out constantly to justify grant money and job tenure.
Sat Jan-10-09 04:34 PM Posted by bamalib

-After I graduated law school I don't get into them as often as I used to. Now people who work for me get any materials I might need from the major university library which is across the street from my office.
Sat Jan-10-09 04:48 PM Posted by bamalib

- It is not "accepted medical science" Any judge in the U.S. (at the appellate level anyway) would toss you from the courtroom if you attempted to say that.
Sat Jan-10-09 05:24 PM Posted by bamalib

next time you "interact" with these folks print those out because i have a theory that they were posted by a high school kid in alabama who has delusions of grandeur and takes contrarian positions on internet discussion boards to fulfill his need for attention.

i wish you had actually gone to some sort of higher learning school so you could argue better than you have here, it would have been a little more fun to engage in an actual debate rather than "it's true because i say so nahhh".

good luck to you in your dream of attending law school, i hope you make it some day, but i am done with you as the weekend is over and work calls. so go ahead and post your last juvenile retort because it is in your nature to get the last word, you just can't resist. but i won't see it as you will be ignored, as i'm sure others have done by now. so switch to your other sock puppet accounts so you can troll for more attention that you obviously can't get at home.

good bye and good luck to you junior.

[AZ Criminal JD]

212. Is that picture an x-ray of your brain?

[alittlelark]

102. I had it in the 60's... I'm 45 now.

[Pithlet]

118. Apparently you're totally making it up, you authoritarian wuss.

As is my husband. We're authoritarians, according to one in this thread, and wusses according to others. It's insane. DU never fails to utterly surprise me sometimes. I should just totally disbelieve my own husband and his doctor, I guess. Idiots.

[baby_mouse]

178. When you make things up and post hem on the Internet people notice and tell you you're being stupid.

It's much better to use it as an information dissemination medium than a lightning conductor for weird personal issues.

[Taverner]

65. WHAT??????!!!!!!!???? I watched a child go into Anaphylactic shock once

Because of Peanuts

This isn't just stupid, this is downright dangerous

[depakid]

74. More scientific illiteracy from the so called "mainstream" media

[SidDithers]

171. Scientific illiteracy from posters in this thread too...nt

Sid

[ismnotwasm]

79. Irresponsible fuck

Whether or not he even has a point isn't the point. He's not a doctor and parents, in general aren't doctors or allergists. Death from allergies may be rare, but allergic reactions are no fun to say the least, and specific allergies are sometimes hard to diagnose.

Disclosure; I have no allergies. Missed all that.

Cynical dismissal in a lame attempt to sound worldly and bored on some blog *is* an asshole thing to do. Yuppie scum.

[Pithlet]

127. It is. And it can get people killed.

The truth is it isn't very common. But it DOES exist. How many people will read this crap and think "It's all in people's heads" and then dismiss it when someone says they have an allergy and ignores it and serves them something that will kill them? We have a handful of people in this thread that are dismissing it as it is. It is irresponsible, and the result could be deadly. It makes me so mad. And to get dismissed as a wuss, or PC, or authoritarian. My husband suffers from a deadly food allergy. It's bad enough as it is that we can't really trust that people will. My blood is boiling that people can be so willfully ignorant over this. To think that we're just stupid liberal yuppies following the latest trend, because it's just so much fun! Ugh. He's had it all his life; he was born in the early 70's, so there goes that ridiculous theory right there.

[alittlelark]

97. I've been 'dead' for 20 or so seconds from the 'yuppie invention'

Twice. I'm 45 and have been allergic to peanuts and tree nuts since 2 yrs old (1 of the 'dead' times). I have had about 60 reactions, 30 or so have put me in the hospital. I had teachers that did not believe I had an allergy in grade school.

The amt on the end of a toothpick AFTER it's wiped off is enough to cause a significant reaction.

I rarely eat out, and learned to cook Thai food myself (I love Thai.. restaurants use too many peanuts).

I'm sick of ppl claiming it's not real.

[whistler162]

103. Stein is a nut and as far as I know no one is allergic to Stein

ergo nut allergies = yuppie invention.

BTW... my cousins eldest is allergic to nuts and as far as I know he and his wife aren't yuppies. He is a police officer and she is a teacher that home schools their children.

[Two Americas]

107. Have Americans Gone Nuts Over Nut Allergies?

Have Americans Gone Nuts Over Nut Allergies?

Five years ago, at a San Francisco elementary school, a nurse stood by to ensure that the children scrubbed their hands as they arrived, while their packed lunches were confiscated and searched for nut products. The measures were a precaution to protect a 5-year-old boy at the school who had a severe nut allergy.

In 2006 a town in Connecticut felled three hickory trees more than 60 feet high after a resident learned that the trees leaning over her property produced nuts and complained that they posed a threat to her grandson, who had nut allergies. (Read TIME's top 10 medical breakthroughs of 2008.) Do these safeguards seem a little, well, nuts? Harvard professor Dr. Nicholas Christakis thinks so. One of Christakis' children attends school in the district that ordered the bus evacuation, and the episode prompted the physician and social scientist — best known for his work on the social "contagiousness" of characteristics such as obesity and happiness — to write a commentary, published in the British Medical Journal, questioning whether these so-called precautions are snowballing into something more like a societal hysteria.

Of the roughly 3.3 million Americans who have nut allergies, about 150 die from allergy-related causes each year, notes Christakis. Compare those figures with the 100 people who are killed yearly by lightning, the 45,000 who die in car crashes and the 1,300 who are killed in gun accidents. As a society, Christakis says, our priorities have become seriously skewed, and it's largely a result of fear. "My interest is in understanding as a spread of anxiety," he says.Recently, a Massachusetts school district evacuated a school bus full of 10-year-olds after a stray peanut was found on the floor.

more...

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1869095,00.html

[Pithlet]

130. Oh wahhh. Little pwecious might have to eat a baloney sandwich, instead!

What a ridiculous article. Yes, if making a school peanut free because one of the children attending could DIE if coming in contact with trace peanut, then I think it's worth it. Any parent who would throw a fit about it is a complete ogre. My younger son's preschool is actually peanut free. Horrors! We're fortunate that neither of our children inherited a nut allergy. I'd hate to think what would have happened had they, and one of the parents of the school they had attended would have insisted on little Schyler's Gawd given right to a peanut butter sandwich. It's food. It's not as if there aren't a million other alternatives. It's not as if it means discomfort for the child in question. It means they DIE.

[mucifer]

112. That's a dangerous person who doesn't care how he gets publicity!

And he KNOWS how to get publicity.

[BlooInBloo]

116. The utter wussification of Americans has indeed gotten a lot worse over the last decade or so.

[argonchloride]

120. Indeed. There is a movement to reduce every person to the lowest common denominator

in every aspect of life. Nobody must ever be disrespected, inconvenienced, insulted, marginalized or put-upon in any way, shape or form lest the oppressors gain advantage, real or imagined. Everyone must be exactly equal even if they are equally stupid, crazy or dead.

[BlooInBloo]

123. Don't include me in your "I hate political correctness" rant....

That's certainly not what I was talking about.

[argonchloride]

154. It most certainly IS what you were talking about. Unless you were unsuccessfully trying for

sarcasm.
:eyes:

[Two Americas]

134. nice try

Nice try at inserting a right wing theme into the discussion and hijacking the the points that the skeptics are making here.

[argonchloride]

160. No, the rightwingers deny facts. I can't imagine why you are doing it

because I am quite certain you're not a right winger. It's very confusing.

[flvegan]

142. This flamewar is just nuts.

[madrchsod]

143. wow...my only flame fest since joining jan 2002.....

i guess there`s a first time for everything!

peanut allergies


:shrug:

[flvegan]

146. This thread is so nuts, it's making me itch.

nut allergy.

[KamaAina]

149. Is "Joel Stein" Savage Weiner's real name?

:shrug:

[JVS]

157. So if we ignore these allergies will dead children be the next yuppie trend?

[Pithlet]

161. I know. I don't get the "x condition isn't real" trend.

That seems to be cropping up lately. This one is especially ludicrous given it's a condition where people have been known to suddenly drop dead. That's an awfully hard thing to fake. Goes to show you people will buy absolutely anything, no matter how stupid, and it knows no political leanings apparently.

[struggle4progress]

172. "I was unaware of the existence of Joel Stein before today. I wish I still was." - Snorghagen

http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/15693.html
scroll down to the comments

[Pithlet]

174. See, I think it's that he tries to pull off a certain type of humor

and he's just not quite talented enough. He even goes so far to admit he's just making shit up to get attention in the article. Like someone else said in the comments section you linked to. He should stick to I love the 80's.

[JCMach1]

173. Allergies can make NO SENSE: I found myself allergic to NEEM

and Henna... The put that shit in everything in the Middle-East. They also plant Neem trees everywhere which cause my eyelids to swell like balloons when they are blooming.

My allergies have gotten worse with age to the point where I have persistent asthma!

I can't drink milk at all and have to avoid eggs and flour.

As for nuts... Black Walnuts (only the black) make me itchy and then I barf! Even a TINY sliver will make me barf. I have no other nut allergies.

[DainBramaged]

181. I'm 57 and have had food/inhalant allergies all of my life

I sit here with a chronically runny nose waiting for my medication to kick in so I can breathe today. I am SEVERELY allergic to MSG (I read labels) tannin in wine (I miss wine, I never understood the relationship of puking and having breathing difficulties after drinking wine when I was young) ALL types of perfumes and artificial scents ( I can't even go into the detergent aisle in Target without having problems)shellfish (I miss scallops, and certain nuts (I just don't bother anymore). Peanut butter I am OK with thank God, because I love the stuff, always have. Food allergies aren't a joke, never were.

[lonestarnot]

190. The only thing that surprised me on this thread is that there has been no response from T.H. that

I was able to see thusfar. :evilgrin:

[Jack Rabbit]

196. I'd probably have a sneezing spell in the presence of Mr. Stein

You see, I'm allergic to nuts.

[mainer]

202. Africans and peanut allergies -- it's early exposure that protects them

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-wellbeing/features/crunch-time-for-peanut-allergies-885074.html

[McCamy Taylor]

206. You have to have good nutrition AND childhood exposure to be allergic

Third world children suffer from so much protein malnutrition that they often can not produce an adequate amount of extra protein antibodies to mount an immune response to allergens like nuts even if they are exposed to peanut butter in infancy (say from relief workers). Also, if you are sick all the time from diarrheal illness, all your immunity production is used up fighting that and you can not create extra antibodies to attack food and stuff in the air. That is the theory to explain why people who come to the US from places like Mexico do not suffer from pollen allergies but their children do. And why starving children do not suffer from food allergies. Environmental exposure is also possible, but the third world is hardly a pristine Garden of Eden. Go to Mexico City or many other places and you will see even worse chemicals and worse air and water.