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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:26 AM
Original message
DUers should embrace "24"
While each year it deals with terrorist from different countries, they always have had collaborations from high government officials.

And to blame this program on the torture in Abu Ghraib and Gitmo is absurd. It is like the kids who stood in the middle of a highway because they saw this "worked" in a video game.

"Jack Bauer" himself has been tortured several times, was clinically dead, yet came around all in a span of several hours.

I used to visit a message board about this program and there were many instances where visitors pointed out to points of absurdity. One funning joke - how the CTU could arrive from one part of Metro LA to another in less than an hour, in the middle of the day.

Or nuking Los Angeles, and the desert, with "Jack Bauer" in clear proximity and life continued and he is alive and kicking.

The comment eventually would be: hey, this is a TV show, that keeps one at the seat of the chair, just enjoy it.

Even yesterday, the line of communications between an aircraft and the air controllers was hijacked. When the controllers realized it they were trying to call passengers on their cell phones which, of course, were turned off as instructed.

One of us commented that pilots should be equipped with a satellite phone and someone else responded: they probably are.

And "24" gave us the first credible African American president "David Palmer" an honorable principled man who paid in his life for this. And his brother. And a sister who was a human rights lawyer helping American citizens detainees in Washington, D.C.

And now we have another honorable, principle Madame President.

Certainly beats all the reality shows.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. DUers should embrace reality
!
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. Why start now?
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm not sure how I feel about the show. I heard the creator is a Republican. I know the portrayal of
the UN official in the TV movie as spineless and unprincipled seemed to fit in with Republican's lack of respect for the UN. Good grief, they had him hiding with the children! And then later he offered to give info on the location of the children to the bad guy, for the right price.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. There were two co-producers and Kiefer Sutherland himself is a Demcorat
The reality is that many UN workers have to be careful not to take sides. And when their lives are in danger - well, the old say of walking a mile in one's moccasins, etc.

And the point was used to progress the story, so that Jack Bauer was the only adult left to accompany the children and to deliver them safely to the embassy, while surrendering himself to the authorities.

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liberalpress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
50. I believe the saying is this:
"Befroe you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. You will be a mile away, and you will have his shoes"
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
36. Joel Surnow is the RW nut - though his name is still in the credits
he's off 24 this season. Did you know a Star Trek writer/producer is one of the producers - Brannon Braga? I wasn't real impressed for the most part with Braga as a Trek writer, but you have to admit Star Trek is certainly a DU type universe.

Except for last season which sucked somewhat and was becoming more unbelievable I've enjoyed 24. Yes the torture element by Bauer is disturbing and I wouldn't say DU should embrace the show, but as the OP pointed out there are also many good plot elements in the show that mirrored the disturbing elements especially of a Republican type U.S. goverment and the Bush Admin. Too bad those plot points seemed to go right over the head of the RW'ers like Limbaugh and Cheney who like the show. And really hilarious to me they use Jack Bauer in their examples. IMHO they are the ones that are absurd.

I get sick of the constant bashing of 24 by many DU'ers most of whom have never watched 24 or watched very little. I can separate fiction from reality.

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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
48. The creator is no longer affiliated with the show
Check out who's currently in the cast and crew and on the writing staff on the show and you'll see it's obviously not some right-wing show.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. Plus Janeane Garofalo is on it this season!
Edited on Tue Jan-13-09 01:40 AM by jonnyblitz
:D
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yes, we marveled at the fact that she is on Fox.. (nt)
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Joyce78 Donating Member (497 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
6. FOX
My husband loves the show. I hate it. Anything by FOX is too much for me.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Ah Joyce.... "FIXED News" channel sucks, but some of the other Rupert-owned channels..
.
.
.

...like the one with the Simpsons, the college sports channel, etc.. aren't political like the Fixed News channel.



And believe me.. unlike many of the DU family, I ===NEVER=== watch Faux News -- ever, ever, EVER!

I don't even have a clue who they're talking about when they bring up the Faux News mediahead names.. but the non-news channels are fine by me.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. And "House"
Yes, like you we don't watch Fox... except on occasions at the gym on a treadmill when I just want to hear what is happening in the world and CNN has Rick Sanchez or they just put the "iReport."

The only problem that I have with watching "24" or "House" is their nonstop promotion of American Idol. Now, there is abomination.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
7. There was an article on Time.com yesterday saying the show would be "Obama-nized"...
Edited on Tue Jan-13-09 02:25 AM by larissa
.
.
.

I'm not a viewer of the program, but I saw an article yesterday saying something about the new shows format for this season.

Evidently, they're a very "Obama friendly" group of people.

I can't remember the exact context of the article because I just scanned it...

But the teaser on the main screen at Time said something about the show being "Obama-nized", and when you clicked on that -- there was an article about the shows new season format.

I know.. I know.. the above gibberish is confusing and if I was an avid viewer, I'm sure I would've read it more closely.

It was at this site: http://www.time.com/time/

I do remember the article also saying something like "We've never been sure why people think we're conservatives anyway" (something like that!)

Geez, I'm a lot of help aren't I..

-- Seriously though, I read it (scanned it) just yesterday..
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Nostradammit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
9. Didn't the producer of that show go with Rush on a sex tourism junket?
Seem to remember he was with Limbaugh when he got popped with the illegal Viagra. Hmmmmmmmm...
Rich men going down to the Dominican Republic with a suitcase full of blue pills.


No use for that show. Utter propaganda.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I have several friends that travel to the Dominican Republic.
They go for cigars and golf.

David
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Nostradammit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. I'll bet you do.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. They are in the cigar business of course.
Davidoff brings a lot of people down there to their factories.

David
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
11. Never seen it
The previews alone make me feel like I have the "All Gestapo, All the time" channel on.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. It was used in Presidential debates to argue in favor of torture.
I'm not going to watch any show that advances national support for torture. And I believe that was the purpose of writing those scenes.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Yes, but with so many DUers seeing a government conspiracy everywhere
and with this show full of conspirators at the highest ranks of government I think that this show would just confirm DUers worse suspicions.


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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. I don't see that as an argument for the show.
I also think there's an agenda behind them showing why a liberal Democrat like Obama might go into a "good" war for humanitarian reasons. It's still promoting a pro-war agenda.
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. I respectfully disagree.
Edited on Tue Jan-13-09 03:16 AM by Herdin_Cats
I used to watch it, rationalizing it as "just a tv show." Then Jack Bauer cut off a man's finger and I almost puked. I don't know why that particular act of torture in a show full of such acts threw me over the edge, but it did, and now I can't stomach 24 at all.

I didn't stop watching because of high-minded ideals, just a sick stomach. But I've thought about it since then. I think a show in which the hero wins the day through the use of torture makes the idea of real torture palatable to those who are susceptible to programming by their television sets. They start to believe that it's necessary and that it yields reliable intelligence. Then, those same gullible souls go to the voting booth and vote for assholes like Bush whom they see as tough and willing to do what takes to protect this nation, even if it means torture. It's just propaganda.

The other day I was flipping through the channels and caught just a bit of 24. (Mind you, I only saw a tiny bit, so I don't know the whole story behind this.) Jack was in a courtroom, persuasively defending his use of torture. The prosecuting attorney was portrayed as a sniveling, naive, little jerk with his nose in the air. Pure, unadulterated, nasty, Republican propaganda.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Didn't the pentagon ask the producers of 24 to tone down the torture
because our soldiers were acting out the scenes on real human beings? NOT a show I would ever subject myself to.
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Yes, I believe they did.
I don't know why I subjected myself to it. I'm not even much of a tv-watcher. I suppose I got hooked because it kept me on the edge of my seat. It's insidious like that.
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
37. Yes!
Democracynow.org:

"This past fall, the Dean of West Point, Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan, along with experienced military and FBI interrogators and representatives of Human Rights First, met with the creative team behind the hit Fox Television show '24' and tell them to stop using torture because American soldiers were copying the show’s tactics."

http://www.democracynow.org/2007/2/22/is_torture_on_hit_fox_tv

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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. I've never seen it, but from your description I am glad.
When the Pentagon has to ask you to mellow out, something is wrong. Sounds like systematic desensitization to me.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. I can appreciate that
I refused to watch "No Country for Old Men" which won the Oscar, yet had brutality for the sake of brutality.

"Jack" was not in court room but at a Senate hearing. And what he said, and later in the show, was that, yes, they used torture to save a school bus full of kids but that the American people have to know this and to decide whether this is what they approve, or not. He said this later to an FBI agent who was guarded him and expressed his admiration to him and disdain to the Senate hearing.

And he ended up at that Senate room after he gave himself up to the American embassy at an African nation in order to let several children be rescued. They had the papers and their guardian was killed by a rebel group and the man at the embassy said that the kids would have to be accompanied by an adult so he gave himself up.


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ogneopasno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
30. Good post, and I totally agree with it.
"24," in its early days, was a show we used to make time for, which was highly unusual -- we watch very little TV, besides sports. But by the third season or so, the violence just got to be too much. And the use of violence and the way it was justified went too far. I was done.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
45. Your second paragraph reads much like...
Your second paragraph reads much like the Fundie's justification for banning violent video games and gangster rap...
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-14-09 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #45
57. Yes, I realized that.as I was writing it, but didn't quite no how else to say it.
Edited on Wed Jan-14-09 07:59 AM by Herdin_Cats
Unlike fundies, I don't believe in censorship and I think you should continue to watch 24 if you enjoy it and it doesn't disturb you.

But it's my personal opinion that this show, whether intentionally or not, serves as propaganda for the Bush administration's illegal and depraved conduct in its "war on terror." As such, I don't believe it's something that we as progressives should "embrace." It doesn't further our purposes.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
18. They have Cherry Jones as POTUS?
I don't watch, but I saw a promo and it showed Cherry Jones as POTUS, which made me want to watch it, except I forgot.

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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. Yes, she is. A very principled and honest president
though I admit, I've never heard of her.

As some of us noted back in November, when first introduced in a "prequel" show, "24" was the first to have a three dimensional African American president and now, a woman. Well, Geena Davis was, and she did tackle important issues, but ABC yanked it after barely one season.


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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #29
44. ABC didn't yank it so much as no one watched it, IIRC.
The first thing I've ever seen Cherry Jones in was in this movie.

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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
19. Not me. That show sucks!
In TeeVee Land, which really sucks in general, '24' stands out with extraordinary suckiness.

Combined with the fact that it is obvious right wing propaganda, designed to de-sensitize us to brutality and torture, I think I'll pass.

I watched the piece of shit a few seasons back, so I do know what it's about. :puke:
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Agreed & Well Said
I watched part of one episode and simply walked away from it. IMO the show would have to improve greatly to reach the level of trash.


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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
22. sorry, torture - of anyone - is not my thing
especially torture for entertainment
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
25. 24 is just a plain shitty TV show.
Edited on Tue Jan-13-09 01:47 PM by Bornaginhooligan
It's a throw back to the live action cartoons of the eighties.

The A-Team. Knight Rider. Ripe Tide.

Only it sucks even worse.

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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. yeah
it never interested me in the least either
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
27. That President is worst at acting that Bush is at being President
She's fucking terrible
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
31. Fox will never say they earned a single rating point from me
Sorry - I pass up on everything at Fox
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
33. Here is a clip of one of the producers of 24
Edited on Tue Jan-13-09 02:22 PM by RandomThoughts
He is in the front holding the red shirt. Seriously thats one of the producers of 24, But since 24, and many other shows, are very advanced PR, this require too much backstory to even explain the signifigance of this clip.

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/721254/Buffy_Man_The_Mustard

David Fury answer to a question in an interview.
Q: You started your career as an actor, primarily doing comedy/sketch comedy. In Buffy, you were the Mustard Man in "Once More With Feeling." And on Angel, you played a man controlled by evil puppets. If you had been offered a series regular role in Buffy instead of a staff writer position, what role would you create for yourself?

A: Probably a geek professor at Sunnydale U who stumbles upon the knowledge of the Hellmouth and pathetically attempts to battle the demons on his own.

Or some evil flunky. More like my own life.

http://www.popgurls.com/article_show.php3?id=591


wiki page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Fury
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. I recall one 24 episode when someone calls CTU for one of the characters
and it's someone named "Jane Espenson" on the other line.

If you know your Buffy, you know Espenson is another writer/producer for Buffy and Angel and now a writer on Battlestar Galactica.

Just thought I'd throw that into the mix for all you nerds out there.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #39
53. Yea Battle Star Galactica
Has a feel that matches some of the same feel in a few other shows. But it has a thought challenging point of view that is closer to the surface then the medaphors in Buffy or Angel.

Lots of things on BSG, I disagree with, but some I like.

When I watch a show, I flip alot of things around to make it more palletable, and I remove stuff I don't like, or ignore things like violence.

Like in BG, the trial scenes, the planet scenes, and Baltazar and his speeches are really good parts of the show, but I have to change in my head the description of parts of the characters to get into it more.

Or here is a better example, a couple post ago I posted a clip from Shaun of the dead. I watch that whole movie flipped, where the zombies are the good guys(and are not violent). It makes much more sense that way.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
35. it's a frickin TV show
I doubt I'll ever watch it. The concept is ridiculous. Isn't there enough of that in real life to focus on?
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #35
55. I been taking a break from real life today.
But to your point, it is a TV show.

But what is a TV show.

A bunch of writers and producers translates the struggles they seen in life into a form to show others, and within that form comes their thoughts and beliefs. And many times the same groups with same beliefs use same ideas or themes.

When you watch TV, you are actually being told about somebody's belief system, in some way you see there reflections of how they see life. And in a small way it changes you, and in a cumulative way, TV, and any stories you read, change you alot.

Also the similarities in themes is quite interesting. It says something about humanity, and sometimes the lack of humanity.
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
38. "24" is beloved by Turks, but it really pissed them off, too.
WaPo (2006):

"Turkish audiences also flocked to '24,' the sleekly breathless Fox network series -- starring Kiefer Sutherland as an anti-terrorism agent -- that is anchored firmly in the premise that it is America that's under attack.

The first three seasons aired in Turkey on CNBC-e, which like several private channels here relies on American series and movies for the bulk of its programming. Most of the shows air here at least a year after appearing in the States. Last year, that lag was filled by the complaints of Turks living in the United States, incensed that last season's terrorist conspiracy was quickly traced to Ankara.

'Is this the way your network treats our allies and friends?' Fulya Ziegler, a viewer of Turkish descent, wrote Fox.

Compounding the offense, the apparently Turkish characters were played by Hispanic and Iranian actors. And one episode equated the Arabic and Turkish alphabets, even though Turkish is written in Roman letters."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/13/AR2006021302301_2.html

How's that for ignorance? Creating an international incident with one of our closest allies because they don't know the Turks aren't Arabs?
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
40. I watched half of the first season and hated it.
Sorry, but I think there are better shows to watch and books to read.
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
41. I FREAKING LOVE 24!
The first four hours of season seven were
fantastic!

I SO want to know who's compromising Madame
President's inner circle and who the fuck
killed her son, though I already know it's
a corporate conglomerate headed by Jon
Voight, so fucking evil, manipulating the
stock market by manipulating events in the
African nation of Sangala. And the African
owner of the diamond mines is extorting
inaction on the part of the President who
wants to help the rebel freedom fighters
and the people who are being slaughtered
so that the corrupt government can take
over and profit from the mines.

What a plot!
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
42. Amerikkka, kept in the dark and gobbling up dung




The Hollywood "anti-Bush product line" only strengthens the brand.


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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
43. no and no thanks
no fucking way
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Boomerang Diddle Donating Member (566 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
46. Aren't the creators/producers of the show
rabid right wingers?
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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. The insane one left the show recently
Which is great news.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
49. naw. threw my TV out a while back. prefer no TV. n/t
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liberalpress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. "If you don't have a TV...
... what's all your furniture pointed at?"

--- Joey Tribiani
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
52. I watched it once, I thought it sucked
so no thanks.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
54. I used to love the X-files. I'm pissed that now Obama is the one cooperating with the colonization.
Edited on Tue Jan-13-09 06:47 PM by lumberjack_jeff
Talk me down. ;)
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-13-09 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Ok, if you want a talk down.
Go watch ID4

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