Did Rachel just get Blindsided by Jim Webb

[montanacowboy]

Whoa, did anyone see that song and dance Webb did around the torture thing? He hemmed and hawed and defended the Bush Administration with a red face and really super uncomfortable at having to be questioned by Rachel..

Whats UP? he is covering his ass? did he know about torture too? how many of them are complicit? Will we ever know?

Rachel was not ready for this kind of response from him and he clearly was scared.

[shadowknows69]

1. There's the rub

How many did know? That's also why there will never be justice for it.

[madokie]

2. I seen it and I thought it was odd

no answers though

[polichick]

3. It was pretty interesting - Rachel was speechless for a moment.

[Occam Bandage]

4. Webb's a centrist, a military man, and was Reagan's Secretary of the Navy.

I do not say this to bash him. I like Webb a great deal. But when it comes to military methods, and when you get down to brass tacks and away from campaign rhetoric, I imagine Jim Webb would probably feel more forgiving towards the guys in uniform than most Democrats would.

[montanacowboy]

6. Not talking about guys in uniform

talking about the Bush Cheney torture policy which is now out in the open for all to see

[NMDemDist2]

5. yeah, he did a dance. and the way he started the whole thing

"thanks Rachel, glad to be here, I think"

odd all the way around

[okiru109]

7. yeah, that was pretty sad... looks like many of our leaders aren't that far apart from the neoCONs

though I am not surprised and will keep working for real change the I don't believe i will see it until my kids (and yours) take the mantle.

i take pride in teaching them and look forward to the hero generation coming of age and then in power.

[peacetalksforall]

8. Are we learning something here? Or are we confirming - our leaders

are not telling us the truth. Have you ever thought about how strange it is that they have never seriously protested or spoke out harshly against killing Iraqis and torturing, Patriot Act, Katrina, spying, immunity? Are we screwed? Or not?

I swear, Kucinich is the only brave soul.

Russ Feingold is behind him - THE ONLY Senator to vote against the Patriot Act. Not even Kennedy joined him.

[okiru109]

10. both - but also we are stumbling to a better place... it is just gonna take time

a lot of folks in there now are part of the old school and probably won't change soon (if ever) but the times are definitely changing and the bush maladministration has accelerated and influenced that change for the positive and so those people will be replaced in time... that is the 1 thing I am truly grateful of his (*) administration for... well that and he didn't launch any nukes :evilgrin:

:hi:

[boomerbust]

19. I knew something was wrong

The day that Feingold called for the censure of Bush with no other Democrats standing with him. Not even Kohl. His home state fellow Democratic Senator.

[peacetalksforall]

20. I forgot about that. That man needs tobe honored. Thanks.

[spanone]

9. i think cheney was smart enough to make sure the 'right' democrats were briefed

therefore, if they didn't speak up, they were co-conspirators

i.e. he had them by the balls

[mod mom]

25. yep -covered his sorry ugly ass by making them co-conspirators.

[wildbilln864]

11. k&r it people! nt

[Stinky The Clown]

12. I read it as him being in more general agreement with the policy than most Democrats

I like Webb.

I didn't like the aftertaste of that interview.

[malaise]

13. Then she should have invited Sheldon Whitehouse

or maybe Dems are keeping cards close because there are six days left to pardon men.

[xchrom]

14. i think lot's of people were briefed on the specifics.

and yes -- it is also a problem for democrats.

[karynnj]

15. Not really surprising

This is the man who refused for 30 years to shake John Kerry's hand because Kerry had the courage to speak the truth about Vietnam.

He was not in a position to have known of the torture before it was public knowledge. He was not even in government when it started. It might be because of things he approved as Secretary of the Navy under Reagan or things he condoned in Vietnam. From the military's own records, there were abuses all over Vietnam - and it is possible they extended to torture.

Webb was against war in Iraq and he spoke against Bush - but on many many issues he is about as far to the right as a Democrat can be.

[davidwparker]

16. Webb is my senator. May have to leave that box unchecked next time he

runs. I missed the show; about to watch the repeat.

Webb is good an military affairs, but he is a far cry from that "we'll show you the way" rebuttal he gave to * when Webb was first elected.

Some of Reid's puss-ification must have rubbed off on him.

[bertman]

17. Jim Webb was a Marine officer who was an infantry platoon leader and company commander

in Vietnam. He saw lots of action and was highly decorated, plus he was wounded in action and forced to retire from the military due to his wounds.

I have not watched Rachel tonight, but I'm going to watch the rerun at 11 to see this.

As a former infantry officer and a Vietnam vet I can imagine that Jim Webb found himself in a very strange place when Rachel asked him that question. (But I'm really glad she did ask him). I was a 21 year old when I was first in combat. On one of my first missions we captured two VC men. As soon as they were brought to the company commander they were laid on their backs, held down and had water poured into their mouths and noses. Sound familiar? One of the men refused to tell anything. The other started singing like a bird.

As an officer I knew that using those types of tactics on prisoners was against the Geneva Conventions. But I was the new kid and the guys who were doing the water torture were grunts who had been in the field and seen it all. It did not even occur to me that I should question whether that type of "interrogation technique" should be used. Although, I did feel very uneasy when I witnessed it and every time I think back to that time I feel bad about it. At the time I did not know if we got any information from the talker that may have saved American lives. All I knew was it was apparently the accepted way of getting quick battlefield intelligence and it might be keeping us from being ambushed or from walking into a booby trapped area.

We all knew that the official policy of the military was no torture. But many units practiced what I just related and worse in hopes of getting life-saving information about the enemy. My guess is that Jim Webb, who was in Vietnam at about the same time I was, probably saw or did similar things. So I am not at all surprised that he may have had some major discomfort at being put on the spot like that.

I read on a website that Jim Webb refused for 30 years to shake John Kerry's hand because Kerry testified before the Senate about the torture that was going on in Vietnam, so that also leads me to believe that he probably did observe or participate in that type of thing.

When I heard about Kerry's testimony and the Winter Soldier program I was very glad that it was coming out in the open. But that's another story.

Personally, I don't care what Jim Webb did in combat. But I am very concerned that he and the other Democrats take a hard stand on re-establishing that the policy of the United States is NO TORTURE. Even if it does happen at times in the heat of combat that is no reason for it to be accepted as official policy as has been happening during this administration.

[mmonk]

18. There is the school of thought that being briefed was a form of

complicity and thus, no consequences for the bush administration. That or they were in agreement. The most simple reasons more often are those that are the straightest lines.

[alfredo]

21. If you want to spike Obama's cabinet picks, make him show his hand

on any future investigation into bush's crimes. Right now, let him take office, get his DoJ picks confirmed, then lobby him and anyone who can help.


Webb was smart not to say too much. He did the right thing. The legislative branch should keep it's powder dry and wait to see what the DoJ does. Never forget how Ollie North got set free. Best let the DoJ handle such high profile investigations.


Right now we need to get Obama's agenda passed. Justice will happen with or without his urging. If and when the DoJ gets a complaint, they will have to act.

[Cetacea]

22. He was pretty creepy.

"Thanks Rachel, glad to be here, I think"

[JI7]

23. no surprise and i'm glad Obama didn't pick him for VP

[ladjf]

24. What a weasel! nt