I am opposed to ANY tax cuts in the stimulus package

[Stinky The Clown]

Even tax cuts for little guys.

What will it get spent on? Cheap Chinese crap for the little guys, non US cars for middle sized guys, and it will be hoarded by the guys big enough to hoard.

I favor direct government spending and government seeding of green businesses. I favor revamping the health care system.

In good times we can incentivize behavior by tax credits and targeted tax cuts. These days we need to do that by creating the initial demand.

Government spending.

Government spending should include infrastructure (on a GRAND scale). Transportation is a huge need. Not roads. Rail. Mass transit.

How about a wind farm (or solar array or geothermal wells or whatever makes local sense) on top of each school? Get them off the grid permanently.

Make all public buildings energy efficient. That's not just windows and some insulation in the attics. It is smart building control systems. It is efficient elevators. It is right sized cafeterias. It is LEED certification. It is conversion to all Energy Star appliances. It is TEARING DOWN old, shoddily built buildings and replacing them with LEED Platinum buildings.

And ENFORCE a Buy American rule. 100% American sourced. And that includes people. Like the architects and engineers and construction managers and dry wall guys and electricians and bricklayers and painters and IT guys and escalator installers and landscapers.

I want no tax cuts and not one penny of our DEFICIT spending going out of the country. That's not isolationist. It is pragmatic. A dime that goes to Bangalore or Beijing or Belfast or Budapest will NEVER find its way back here.

[Taverner]

1. A tax cut on the poorest 20% might be nice

[Stinky The Clown]

2. They probably don't pay enough taxes to have a cut matter

How about direct help to them?

On edit: How about creating JOBS for them???? Even if it is as low end construction workers.

[Taverner]

4. Then have it work so they get a bigger refund

[uppityperson]

8. I have an issue with all this. I am self employed, sole prop, no employees

My income has had a severe drop off since people can't afford what I provide (health care). While I see the need to create jobs, and help businesses that employ others, how about helping people in my situation from joining those competing for jobs?

I don't qualify for "keep your employees employed, expand the # of employees" since I am the only one in my business. I don't qualify for unemployment compensation since I am a sole prop/self employed person who can't put into that insurance.

People get laid off, can't afford to pay me, my income drops to minimal.

I know I am only 1 person, but I know a lot of other people who are also self employed without employees.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. Tax cuts are pointless when people need jobs.

It's already been amply demonstrated that giving the wealthy tax cuts doesn't necessarily create a single job. Middle and working class people won't be spending theirs in the economy, they'll be paying bills with them. Infrastructure and job creation should be the first priority.

[DJ13]

10. iddle and working class people won't be spending theirs in the economy, they'll be paying bills

Thats exactly what they should be doing with the high levels of personal debt most people have now.

[uppityperson]

5. I'd spend mine on food and gas to get to work. And dental bill.

No, not on cheap chinese crap, but for my dental bill also.

Tax cut for the poorest would be a good idea, along with creation of jobs so people can continue to survive, so people can continue to keep their businesses barely functioning.

[DJ13]

6. There is no faster way to stimulate the economy than

....... giving most of the stimulus to those most apt to spend it.

Tax cuts to the lower classes (or direct stimulus checks to those who dont pay taxes) would do more than any amount we throw at the frauds on Wall Street, as they will SPEND it, not horde it.

[napi21]

7. Middle class tax cuts WOULD put $$ into the pocket of a lot of people

who really need it now. How it would work is that the middle class tax rate would be reduced, and the additional $$ would increase the net in your paycheck. That's a much more efficient way of getting money into someone's hands than checks generated by the Treasury, and although you may be only talking about $20+- per week, that would make a lot of difference to people who have been hit hard with gas prices, winter heating costs, and increased food prices. That's an additional $100/mo. That's a LOT to many people.

I too want to see building/rebuilding our infrastructure. I know, living close to Atlanta, there have been a lot of water main breaks because the pipes are old, and there's never any $$ to do THAT kind of work, and we're not the only city with this problem. NY has had quite a few of those breaks, and then there's the bridge in Minn! This kind of work is NECESSARY and would create a lot of good jobs, but I think we can do both.

[Still Sensible]

9. Like it or not

middle class tax cuts were a clear promise of the Obama campaign and if he were to promote a stimulus package that didn't include them he would be rightly attacked for reneging on that promise.

[Kip Humphrey]

11. Just because employers are liable to reduce or eliminate wage increases this year as a consequence.

[Donnachaidh]

12. so how do you propose STOPPING people from buying cheap chinese crap?

Serious question -- considering the Walmart mindset we have in this country -- how do you stop it? Nationalize Walmart? Physically close-down all the Dollar stores nationwide?

I'd gladly buy American IF we produced quality stuff -- but DO we produce even the basic essentials needed anymore?

Hell -- Hershey's Chocolate just closed it's LAST remaining plant here in the States.

So what exactly is LEFT of our production in the US? Anyone have stats that apply to right NOW?

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

14. You've stumbled upon one of the major problems with globalization - hyperspecialization.

The United States apparently can't manufacture much "inexpensively" any more. Most heavy manufacturing is done in China and southeast Asia.

This does have a benefit - by letting countries do what they're best at, we get an overall more efficient global economy as long as there's true free trade. The profits we saw in the 90s were helped out by this trend.

The downsides are manifold: countries are not as self-sufficient as before, an economic hiccup in one country can ripple outwards throughout the world, and, of course, the psychological problem you mentioned - a feeling of loss and alienation citizens feel from their country's economy and the goods they purchase.

What we "produce" is mostly food for export, cotton, and textiles. I'd include cars, but that's a charlie-foxtrot I'm not willing to touch.

[Stinky The Clown]

17. I often ask people to play a game ....... no matter where I am, I like to challenge people to ......

..... look around and point to everything that is made in the USA.

It always results in a worried giggle and a follow-up 'wow'.

I can't tell you how we can change that behavior now. I CAN say we need to start making shit again. And that can happen by having our government Buy American and then require that their contractors and subcontractors do the same. The overwhelming majority of companies are 'government contractors' to some degree.

[Donnachaidh]

18. I totally agree -- but what we need to hammer home now is just how much we DON'T make here

And we need to make the message go VIRAL.

Until we really start educating the public on what a frigging MESS we ARE in, in terms of taking care of our OWN basics right here right NOW - nothing is going to change.

We have a lot of people right here on the board that do nothing but poo poo the idea of REAL boycotts, or getting groups to REALLY show the public how we are not just teetering on the edge - we're hanging on with bloodie fingers - already OVER the edge.

And now we're asked to wait even longer, while another trillion dollars are given away, with no oversight - on the proverbial *trust us* smirk from our government? WTF? Is it going to to take people dying in the streets before something is done for the LITTLE guy?

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

13. I don't particularly oppose it, but I don't think it will work.

We need sustained growth stimulated by a constant source of money. Government spending is the best way to go about that.

Oh, and let's up the income tax on the top 1% of earners and return something closer to the Eisenhower administration's tax structure for the uber-wealthy.

[customerserviceguy]

15. Can I suggest one exception you might agree with?

Thirty years ago, unemployment comp was not taxed. Just the same as worker's comp and AFDC are today.

If we went back retroactive to January, 2008, and made unemployment comp tax free to the extent that a married couple made less than $60,000 and a single person made less than $30,000, we'd plow a lot of money back into the communities hardest hit by the recession/depression. There are a lot of people who are prudently having ten percent taken out of their UC checks, that could stop doing that. It provides an immediate benefit to them, and to their communities. Maybe it even helps them keep paying the creditors that we've been bailing out, and thus have an interest in seeing survive.

I like your buy American rule, but I don't think having windmill blades on top of schools in populated settings is such a great idea. There are plenty of good rural areas to put wind farms.

[Stinky The Clown]

20. What you suggest is really more of a rule change than a tax cut

I'd be for that.

Windmills on school roofs ..... maybe we need to consider it a metaphor.

[customerserviceguy]

16. Edited

to kill double post.

[mike_c]

19. tax cuts don't make fiscal sense unless there's a budget surplus....

Tax cuts are politically popular. That's about the only good thing you can say about them. The notion that tax cuts stimulate the economy is only true in the short term when it results in further deficits that must be covered by borrowing, at interest, to pay the public debt. In the long run, tax cuts only exacerbate the very problems we're trying to use tax cuts to solve-- our economy is based on smoke, mirrors, and debt.

The only real solutions are to balance the budget, pay down the national debt, and restore an economy based upon producing things. Of course, politicians are only interested in lessening the pain that occurs during their term, rather than in long term sustainable solutions that involve some actual work and sacrifice to achieve.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. Ain't *that* the truth!!!!

:thumbsup:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

22. They're often not even a good idea then

What happens is that lawmakers - particularly in states - pass tax cuts (that are for all intents and purposes permanent the way that some states' laws are structured) when times are flush. When the state's economy declines you get massive deficits. I'd prefer giving rebates if there's a surplus.