If Obama shuts down Gitmo and

[doc03]

stops torture what happens if we have a terrorist attack any time in the next 4 years?

[Ken Burch]

1. You're assuming Gitmo and torture are STOPPING terrorist attacks

It's at least as likely, and probably more likely if you get right down to it, that the attacks have stopped because, at the moment, they didn't have anything else to gain by attacking us directly.

[doc03]

4. No I am not but that is the right wingers

hope, that's all they have to cling to. I have heard several say we will be attacked. Someone told me today he heard an attack on the US was eminent, I guess he got it from Fox or talk radio. All I am saying if one happens he will get the blame the American people are easily manipulated.

[Ken Burch]

8. Sorry, then, I was unclear as to your intent.

The real possibility is that Poppy can call in some sort of favor from his Saudi friends and arrange for something to happen that would enable them to argue for the restoration of the Jack Bauer approach.

[bdamomma]

2. it seems like Bushco is going to make it hard for them to do that.

[noise]

3. Right wing authoritarians

will call for Obama's impeachment.

Premise #1: Al Qaeda is an enemy of the US and Saudi Arabia.

Reality: Officials linked to the Saudi government supported alHazmi and alMihdhar in San Diego. Also, the White House, CIA, FBI and NSA all failed to act on intel (i.e. arrest known al Qaeda operatives already implicated in the Cole attack) despite the fact that the public was told the intel community and the White House were aware of the high threat level in the lead up to 9/11.

Premise #2: The threat posed by al Qaeda justifies the use of police state CT tactics.

Reality: The officials who failed to follow standard procedure before 9/11 were the very same people claiming they needed police state powers to prevent terrorist attacks. The overwhelming secrecy and propaganda have helped these officials sell the public on the illegal CT programs.

[Occam Bandage]

5. Was it a terrorist attack carried out by former Gitmo detainees,

and which a person in US custody was aware of, and information regarding which we were attempting to extract from said person, but were unable to? If so, then the Republicans will have a case. Otherwise, not so much.

[doc03]

6. If we have one it will be easy for the right wing

to convince people it was Obama's fault. They will say it was because we can't tap phones, the Internet, torture or detain people. Whatever, it doesn't matter, look how Bush was able to blackmail the Democrats into doing just about anything he wanted over the last 8 years after 911.

[Occam Bandage]

7. In case you didn't realize, Bush isn't going to be President any longer.

We have the bully pulpit, not him. We have control of Congress, and can set its agenda, not them. We're hard selling our talking points to the media again; we've practically owned the airwaves since September. If the Republicans try playing hardball, they'll get their asses kicked. They're in the same position the Dems were in '05--don't make too much noise, pick a few battles, and otherwise just hope the other guys really fuck up badly.

[doc03]

10. They have Faux and Clear Channel with about 2000

stations and 24/7 right wing talkers. The MSM helped Bush manipulate us into a war in Iraq, I don't have the faith in the media you have I guess, I think they will turn on a dime I saw it with Carter and Clinton. The MSM was brutal on Carter and Clinton but they were shills for Bush up until a few months ago.

[Marr]

9. Look- there is *nothing* that will prevent this country's fascists from decrying

the Obama Administration in every way they can think of. If there's a big terrorist attack on Obama's watch, the right wing will blame him in a million ways, and they'll turn their list of complaints into a mantra. But they'll do that no matter what.

Who gives a fuck what they say or think.

[Fading Captain]

11. If you believe torture is wrong then you have to stand up to the

lowest-common-denominator attacks from the Right Wing.

You can't be afraid of their spin.

[1]

12. if obama shuts down gitmo, he is not going to just open the doors and let everyone walk. away..

if obama shuts down gitmo he will, essentially, just move gitmo someplace else.

that is a smart political move. gitmo has such a negative connotation. best to remove it from our thoughts.

smart move.

now about this torture thing... and this "loophole" thing... that's an entirely different matter.

[jaundicedi]

13. Why should they attack us here when we

have obligingly sent them 200,000 American targets of opportunity in their own neighborhood and saved them the air fare?