P.C. Beach Police Taser Naked Woman

[The Straight Story]

P.C. Beach Police Taser Naked Woman

Panama City Beach Police say two officers tasered a naked woman covered in blood after responding to a complaint of a disturbance on Front Beach Road.

Just after midnight Saturday morning, a beach police officer was assisting a Bay County Sheriff's deputy who was responding to the incident.

Police say two were men inside the home and a naked woman was outside where the deputy had asked her to stay down on the ground while he went inside to check things out.

Authorities say the woman began kicking the police officer.

He told her if she didn't comply he would have to taser her, she refused to comply with the officer.

A second Beach Police officer arrived and that's when police say the woman tried to get away and the officers had to taser her yet another time.

Reports say she refused medical treatment and she was charged by the Panama City Beach Police with Resisting an Officer Without Violence.

http://www.wjhg.com/news/headlines/36573424.html

[whistler162]

1. Sounds like they handled it the best they could!

[lostnotforgotten]

2. I Presume From Your Reply That You Support Police Brutality

eom

[Orrex]

6. I'm a little hazy on this

What should a police officer do when someone refuses to stop kicking him?

I'm not advocating tasers by any means, but I don't know what the proper procedure should have been.

[lostnotforgotten]

7. Let's See - She Is Naked On The Beach - How About Stand Back

eom

[Orrex]

14. We don't know anything about the circumstances

Like I said--the reporting is really weak. We simply can't make a determination based on what we know from the feeble article.


However, the next time someone is being assaulted, should we simply tell that person "how about stand back?"

[lostnotforgotten]

19. Article Is Clear - Naked Woman On the Beach

eom

[Orrex]

23. If you can't do any better than 'eom,' then you're not worth replying to

[screembloodymurder]

39. I would have wrestled her to the ground,

Cuffed her, and put her in my car.

[lostnotforgotten]

51. And If You Need Glasses To See Then There is Not Much Room For Intelligent Discussion

eom

[tosh]

43. Actually, no.

Front Beach Road is not "the Beach". It is a busy road lined with high-rise condos and hotels on the beach side and heavy commercial junk, parking garages and some residential on the other side.

She was most likely not on the sand.

[lostnotforgotten]

53. Ok - Naked Woman On the Street - Little Difference - Police Brutality

eom

[1monster]

40. Get out of range of her feet maybe? The article says she was covered in blood.

Sounds to me like an injury of some kind. Perhaps she was out of it do to fear or pain or other?

When did so many cops get so stupid? When did they become so unable to use a little bit of proportionality?

[unapatriciated]

80. This report states she did not do anything violent....

she just wanted to go home. My personal opinion is the taser is used first rather than last in too many incidents.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/171420-Naked-woman-tased-by-police-officer
Panama City - A Beach police officer tased a naked woman after responding to a complaint of a disturbance along Front Beach Road on Saturday.

Just after midnight Saturday morning, a Bay County Sheriff's deputy responding to a complaint of a verbal disturbance saw a woman leaving an apartment wearing no clothes. She started walking toward him, and he told her to stop.

He could see into the apartment, and he noticed two men coming from the hallway into the living room area. He told them to lie face-down on the floor, and they complied.

Just then, a Panama City Beach police officer arrived. The deputy told him to watch the woman while he secured the two men inside. The deputy reported hearing the officer tell the woman, "Stop, or I will tase you."

The woman kept approaching the officer, according to the report, which says the officer then "deployed his taser into" the woman.

The report says the woman "remained on the front porch without further incident" once she had been tased.

[Orrex]

88. That article is kind of vague on the details of the tasing, though

Woman Gets Tased Twice

Lisa allegedly started kicking an officer and telling him she was going to kill him. She then implied that she was going to spit on the officer, that’s when he tased her the first time.

I understand that this isn't in the article that you linked, and I can't speculate as to why; however, I have seen more accounts that do indicating that she was aggressive than I've seen indicating that she was not.

The article that I linked also reports that she was charged with resisting arrest without violence, which isn't inconsistent with her attempts to kick or spit at the officer, if she attempted these prior to being placed under arrest.

[fishbulb703]

11. You are asking for cops to make subjective decisions.

The cops followed procedure and reacted as they would whether it was some drunk naked white woman or some pcp crazed diesel black dude. End of story.

[lostnotforgotten]

17. Naked woman On the Beach - So Says the Article - Police Brutality - Clear And Simple

eom

[Orrex]

21. So it's okay to kick a police officer?

Naked woman or clothed male, it doesn't really matter; you can't assault an cop and thereafter claim police brutality when they follow procedure in an attempt to stop you.

[The Straight Story]

27. But they have multiple procedures they can follow, their choice of which one is in question

Tasers can be, and have been, dangerous and life threatening to someone - especially when you are not aware of their medical condition.

[readmoreoften]

33. If a woman is NAKED and COVERED IN BLOOD that likely means that she was brutally assaulted.

You do not taze her. You do not charge her with police brutality if she kicks you. You do not get close enough for her to kick you. You call an ambulance.

[Orrex]

36. She's not being charged with police brutality

That refers to a charge of brutality commited by a cop.


Beyond that, the article simply doesn't give sufficient information to condemn the cops. All we know from the article is that she was covered in blood, she was told to remain still, that she assaulted the cops, and that she refused medical treatment. And it would be useful to know exactly what "covered in blood" means, because it's a pretty vague description.

We know nothing of the circumstances of the original disturbance except that two men were apparently involved in addition to the woman.

[BlooInBloo]

50. They know. They just don't care.

[Marrah_G]

56. Nowhere does it say the blood was hers

I think there is not enough information for ANYONE here to make a reasonable judgment.

[Orrex]

58. Don't bother with reason or rational judgment here

There's little tolerance for either in this thread.

[Marrah_G]

59. yup- I should know better

People rarely take the time to learn the entire story about anything.

[Orrex]

60. Here are two rules to make it easier for you in the future

1. Assume that all cops are completely corrupt at all times, even while stopping a crime

2. Assume that all civilians are completely innocent, even while in the process of committing a crime


If you can just follow those two simple rules, your GD experience will go much more smoothly.

[woo me with science]

63. You forgot the corollary:

Any woman in proximity to any crime has obviously been abused.

[unapatriciated]

85. I did take the time to look for the full story and two articles one I posted up-thread

stated she did not kick the officer, she refused his orders, stating she just wanted to go home. He tased her and she complied but was still booked for non-violent resisting arrest.
The other article said she "allegedly" threatened to kick and spit on the officer before he tased her. I repeat she was booked on non-violent resisting arrest. If she had kicked him I think they would not have used the term non-violent.

[Gwendolyn]

89. You got your facts all mixed up.

You're just picking out quotes at random and piecing them together to write your own story.

But in any event, the moral of the story is, if you're drunk to the point of walking outside naked with blood all over you, do not resist police officers. The two guys had no problems desisting from their boyish brawling and laying the frack down. Notice how they were not arrested.

Any drunken blood-covered woman who walks outside naked and starts to kick and spit at the police, tries to run away, could very well have left a dead baby with its heart cut out in the bedroom. The cops simply don't know what the story is when they arrive at a scene like that.

It's quite fine to dislike tasers... they're a tool the police are given and instructed to use to minimize injury to them. That saves taxpayers money. Perhaps they are overused in some cases.

In this case, it appears to have been justified.

[Confusious]

62. She could be naked

have a knife, uzi, rocket launcher, on PCP, coke and pot and it WOULD STILL BE POLICE BRUTALITY!!!

sarcasm

[unapatriciated]

84. according to this article she did not kick the officer....

"The woman refused to give deputies any information. She said she wanted to go home. She refused medical treatment. She was charged by the Panama City Beach Police with resisting an officer without violence. She was handcuffed and taken to the Bay County Jail by a deputy. "

link is upthread

[dysfunctional press]

93. not so clear and simple to people capable of actual thought...

she was warned that she would be tased prior to it happening- and she didn't comply with a lawful order.

people who choose to live in florida deserve everything they get.

[whistler162]

31. Really... you shouldn't pretend you are stupid!

[lostnotforgotten]

52. I Am Merely responding To the Article - Naked Woman On the Beach - Police Brutality

eom

[Goblinmonger]

69. So if one is going to commit a heinous crime

they should just be a naked woman on the beach (or street) and then ANYTHING the police do to said naked woman will be brutality. BEAUTIFUL logic you have there. Good luck keeping the peace in your little utopia.

[Orrex]

72. Wait a just a goddamn minute, would you?

Are you saying that this Utopia will be entirely populated by naked women?

[Goblinmonger]

83. Good point by you.

I have to give a second thought to that Utopia.

[Goblinmonger]

67. Nice strawman you built there.

Does it keep the crows away, too?

[Orrex]

3. delete

[Demoiselle]

4. WHAT?

She's lying on the beach covered in blood, probably traumatized and they TASERED her? TWICE? Whose blood was she covered with? And what's with the last line of the story, the two men inside the house "refused to press charges against each other." Is this dreadful police work, stupid reporting, or a combination of both...?

[Orrex]

5. Looks like bad reporting--we're missing a lot of relevant facts

I suspect, from the wording, that the "disturbance" involved a fight between the two men (who declined to press charges against each other).

As you rightly point out, it would be nice to know if the blood was hers and what the larger circumstances might have been.



However, if indeed she was kicking (i.e., assaulting) the officer in spite of a warning, what should the officer have done instead?

[The Straight Story]

8. Back when I was a cop (in the mid 80's) we didn't use tasers

We were trained to take down a person - had one guy come into jail who went off on me and I got his arm, put it behind his back and cuffed him. And he was a lot bigger than I was.

I can see the use of tasers in some situations, it can be a life saving tool, but I think it is over used and is MORE dangerous to the perp than the cop(s) grabbing them and cuffing them.

It's a judgment call IMHO - I would have rather risked getting a little beaten up by a bloodied and out of it naked woman than tasering her knowing the risks involved (she could have a heart problem and it could kill her, etc).

[pop goes the weasel]

44. thank you

There are so many non-lethal ways to gain physical control of someone who is not in control of themselves, and nowadays we have gotten to the point of seeing that even seven year olds are tasered by cops. Is it laziness or a power trip? Whichever, this use of the taser as a first line compliance device has to stop.

[paulk]

45. OTOH - these days, what with HIV and all

I can understand a reluctance to get someone else's blood all over you.

[The Straight Story]

46. We had that worry and others back then

And yeah, it did worry me a bit (not so much AIDS as other things). We kept gloves on us and got regular tests. Like I said elsewhere here - it is a judgment call that an officer needs to be able to back up because tasers can be deadly.

They have their place and there needs to be a lot more oversight and education, as well as stricter regulations on the use of them (I am thinking citizen review boards and such like when a gun is discharged).

[paulk]

54. review board is a good idea

there does seem to be too much of an attitude of "tase first and ask questions later"

[vadawg]

66. coouldnt disagree more

In that situation i cant say i would have handled it differently from what was reported. We dont know whos blood it was, she was given a command for her safety and the officers and she didnt comply and started to assault the officer. He used a non lethal (though some people do die from the tazer, i would bet its less eadly than a 40 or 9mm) control device and controlled the situation without any harm coming to himself or his backup. As you said the taser is more dangerous to the perp than being grabbed and cuffed, but heres the most important part me grabbing a perp is more dangerous to myself and my backup than my deploying the taser. unfortunately today LEO's are dealing with more and more crazy people who think nothing of getting their asses killed or badly hurting the LEO's.

[Demoiselle]

9. I don't know what they could have done....

If she was violently hysterical, I agree it was a real problem...but, if they just let her run away, how far does a naked bloody lady get on a beach, anyway? It's just hard for me to accept the idea of someone being tasered for her own protection.
I hope that if there's any clarification on this story, that DU will hear about it!!!

[Orrex]

15. From the article, we don't know whether she was involved in the fight

Or if the cops had reason to believe that she might be. For that reason, and also because she was covered in blood, they couldn't really let her run away.

You're most likely right that she wasn't tasered for her own protection, except indirectly. If she'd persisted in kicking the cop, what would have been the next step after the taser?

And you're definitely right that clarification would be helpful!

[vadawg]

68. cant let her run away

Dont know about this Dept, but i sure as hell wouldnt let her run away. shes covered in blood, naked, acting strange etc, plus if you watch her run away and she runs into traffic you may as well give the keys to your house to her family and move to skid row with the civil suits you would face.

[unapatriciated]

86. I posted another link up-thread.

I found two articles on this story. One stated she refused his order to stop, stating she only wanted to go home. Another article said she "allegedly" (their word) threatened to kick and spit on the officer. Both articles said she was booked on "non-violently" resisting arrest. I think they would not have used that term if she was kicking or trying to kick the officer.

[petronius]

28. I'm not a cop and never have been so this is just my opinion, but it

seems to me that a naked bloody woman outdoors is almost certainly a victim of something - the first step would be to make sure she's OK, get her covered up (blanket in patrol car?), and calm her down. Secondly, she's likely a source of info about what's going on inside, so talk to her before going in to 'check things out.' If the situation inside is so volatile that it needs immediate intervention, it's probably not a one-cop situation anyway. (The article sounds like only the deputy went inside - no info on what the other officer was doing)...

So, my $0.02 is that they should have concentrated on this likely victim sufficiently that it didn't get to the kicking stage. (Caveat: All of our discussion here is based on a sketchy article. There are reasonable possibilities that the officers acted correctly, although I'm doubting they did... from my comfortable chair 2000 miles away. :))

[Goblinmonger]

70. So women never commit bloody crimes?

And you don't think the police could tell whether she had wounds that would likely cause the blood? Perhaps they saw no wounds and she was acting like she had committed the bloody crime?

[petronius]

74. Of course they do - but I suspect that on average they don't take their clothes off

to do it. IMO, if the police thought she was a suspect they should have controlled her more appropriately at the get-go, and not tried to leave her lying naked in the street. If they thought she was a victim they should have provided assistance (and tried to obtain information), and not tried to leave her lying naked in the street. Either way, it sounds to me like they made a mistake.

As for the blood, it really doesn't sound like they did anything more than tell her to "get down and stay there" - it's completely plausible to me that she could have had wounds they were unaware of...

[whistler162]

32. Read the article!

What is it with basic reading skills.

[Howzit]

10. Sounds like she needed help, not abuse

Are cops going to taser a pedestrian after a hit and run to prevent that person from getting up off the ground, "for their own good"? A person who has been traumatized may not be in a state to carry out police instructions, and unless they are an obvious threat, should be left to alone if they cannot be helped.

If the idea that everyone at the scene of a disturbance is potentially dangerous is so strong, why not send more cops along so that some can watch potential victims without needing to subdue them before going on to find the perpetrators?

[Orrex]

18. How do we know that it was 'for her own good?' How do we know that she was traumatized?

I didn't see either of those statements in the poorly written article. All we know is that she was naked, covered in blood, and kicking the cop. And she refused medical treatment.

[Howzit]

61. You can only kick someone who is near you. Unless she chased the cop

in order to kick him, all he had to do was to back off and go see what else was going on.

[Goblinmonger]

71. So you should just let

a naked bloody woman on the beach/steet be and not go near them? Pretty effective police force you want to have there.

[Howzit]

75. You should respond to any threat in proportion to that threat

A naked bloody woman is no threat to anyone from 25 feet away. If she pulls a gun out from somewhere, by all means shoot her.

[CreekDog]

22. In San Mateo they tased and beat up a guy who was having a diabetic reaction

he was no danger to himself or anybody, he was simply incoherent.

[Orrex]

24. Was the diabetic guy assaulting the cops or anyone else?

If so, then they were right to taser him. If not, then they were wrong to do so, and then his case is irrelevant to this one.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CreekDog]

35. no he wasn't assaulting anybody

and i'll decide whether i think this is relevant. :P

[Orrex]

37. Fair enough, but I'll need you to explain the relevance to me

A person suffering a diabetic reaction and not assaulting someone.

versus

A person not suffering a diabetic reaction and assaulting a cop.


:shrug:

[unapatriciated]

87. except according to two articles one I posted a link to up-thread...

she did not assault him and was not booked for assault, She was booked for non-violently resisting arrest.

[JerseygirlCT]

12. If she was naked and injured, was she really such a threat? nt

[Orrex]

16. Was she injured? How do you know? Whose blood was it?

The poorly written article doesn't give us any of that information. All we know about her medical condition is that she refused medical treatment.

[The Straight Story]

20. Good question, to which I would ask - did the cops even know at that point?

:shrug: I would guess if I came upon that scene that a naked and bloody woman was probably injured.

[Orrex]

29. Odd that the article doesn't say that she was injured, then

If she was covered in blood, she probably was. But what does "covered in blood" even mean? Soaked from head to toe? Spattered? Bleeding profusely? We just don't know.


Since she refused medical attention, then I think we can conclude that she didn't have any particularly serious wounds.


We can't make any final determinations based on this one article.

[The Straight Story]

30. True on the article part, but about the medical part

I have had people in jail before who were out of it and injured and fought me over getting them help (physically fought me, one guy was hyped up on something and tore the toilet off the wall, smashed it on the bars and cut himself up - had to drag him out and restrain him until medics arrived).

Not sure of her mental or physical state, again it is a judgment call on the officer's part and in my personal opinion tasers should be used less often for the safety of the perp.

[anonymous171]

13. He told her to comply or be tased, she refused, and so got tased.

The problem is the cops who tase first, second, third, and then ask for compliance.

[The Straight Story]

25. I don't see refusal as a good reason to taser

unless there is a reason to feel you or someone else is in imminent danger. Cops overuse tasers when back in the day the learned how to safely take down a suspect - to wit, there is a time and place for using the tools of the job and now it seems some cops have forgot that one of the tools they have is themselves. And as I noted upthread tasers can and have killed people with heart conditions and the like, so one should use them as a next to last resort (gun being the last).

[Cid_B]

92. Order was given... she did not respond properly...

I am also going to add that the blood bumps the whole thing up a notch. A pair of glove ain't gonna cut that one.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[woo me with science]

38. Was she an autistic naked woman

who stole a brownie?

[IDemo]

41. While smoking and breast feeding

[Deja Q]

55. At the Olive Garden?

[The Straight Story]

42. If so, the cops should have called some teachers to restrain her

:hide:

[BlooInBloo]

47. Only if she was wearing a cow outfit.

[The Straight Story]

48. Then they would have said: "Stop, don't Moooove"

oh we are bad :)

[BlooInBloo]

49. By that time, it would be a moo point.

Because who cares what a cow thinks?

:P

[RC]

57. Do you have a link to that?

[csziggy]

64. Here is a more complete story - From Dec. 22, 2008

Woman Gets Tased Twice
12/22/08 - 05:22 PM
Audrey Adair
http://www.panhandleparade.com/index.php/mbb/article/woman_gets_tased_twice/mbb7712769/

An argument between two Panama City Beach men ends with a woman being tased by police. The incident happened on Front Beach Road Saturday night after Panama City Beach Police showed up to help Bay County Sheriff’s deputies.

32 year old Lisa Saab was tased not once, but twice Saturday night after officers showed up to settle an altercation between two men, Justin Wolleman and Jospeh Hall.

According to police reports Justin, Joseph, and Lisa were having drinks at Justin’s apartment when Lisa allegedly came on to Joseph. Officials say, Justin and Lisa are a couple and her advances triggered the fight.

The fight turned even more violent when a knife was brought out causing enough injury to Justin to send him to the hospital. When officers arrived, Lisa was naked, covered in blood, and refusing to comply with officers.

Lisa allegedly started kicking an officer and telling him she was going to kill him. She then implied that she was going to spit on the officer, that’s when he tased her the first time.

The second time, police reports state Lisa refused arrest by running away from officers.

Major Dave Humphreys with Panama City Beach Police says tasing is only used to prevent further violence from happening.

Lisa Saab is charged with resisting arrest without violence. Justin Wollemann was sent to Bay Medical for his injuries in this fight.
No charges were pressed against either of the men.

http://www.panhandleparade.com/index.php/mbb/article/woman_gets_tased_twice/mbb7712769/

[Orrex]

65. I've found a few other accounts of the incident

So the blood was not hers after all. It's a shame that no one in this whole thread stopped to ask "how do we know it was her blood?"

Apparently Justin picked up the knife and accidentally cut himself with it.





Thanks for linking to a more complete story.

[seabeyond]

79. my guess, drunk and two guys fighting over her.

so i thought i would keep mouth shut

[Danger Mouse]

73. Can we just like, not post articles about shit that happens in Florida on DU? They depress me.

[Synicus Maximus]

76. The video gives some additional information.

The woman came out of the apartment when the police arrived. One officer went inside while the other watched the woman,the woman was uncooperative and tried to kick and spit blood on the officer.

[Gwendolyn]

77. Ahhh... another "pick up a random dude, drink a lot, then attempt a skanky threesome"

goes awry.

I would say getting buck naked is definitely along the lines of "put the moves on" the random guy.

Maybe she was the one who stabbed the boyfriend in the hand when he got miffed, or maybe as someone else on another board said "maybe their junks touched" and it set off the fight. It's always best to set up rules BEFORE one brings a semi-stranger into the relationship.

Doubtful this one is going to make any big taser litigation headlines. Looks like they all want to forget it ever happened.

[Orrex]

78. You make 'a skanky threesome' sound so tawdry

:rofl:

[seabeyond]

81. getting buck naked is definitely along the lines of "put the moves on"

i was thinkin, lol.

i get mad at a LOT of the taser abuses and abuse of cops. i dont like the tasers at all, but they are used. not gonna get riled on this one.

[Gwendolyn]

90. Yes, it's definitely a way of showing romantic interest.

:D

Seeing vids of abuse is sickening, but dunno, in this case not gonna get riled either!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

82. "Dont' tase me bro!"

Seriously if I was a police officer and a bloody woman started assaulting me, I'm not sure that she would get a warning before I pulled out the taser. Hepatitis, AIDS, etc. - that is scary shit for law enforcement.

[riskpeace]

91. Newby-Fied

Any Questions?

[Javaman]

94. So before tasers what did the police do to subdue people like this woman? nt