Any other "traitors"? I'm one I guess

[Solly Mack]

I'd have voted "nay"

right wingers have labeled me that for years...so it's nothing new and it's about as accurate either way.

[BOSSHOG]

1. I found the votes justified

- Dems voted either to bring our kids home in 18 months or bring them home now.
- Repukes voted to leave them in harm's way forever and have them continue to get killed because their leader is a liar.

I have to ask who's the traitors? And who support our troops.

[Solly Mack]

3. I blame Bush and all those who support him and his quest

for glory.

[BOSSHOG]

5. Yes, let us never forget

those who have supported him and those who continue to do so. He has brought incredible harm to our military and our economy and those sunsabitches will one day regret it. We already do.

[Monkeyman]

6. Boss in that bill is 3 billion for vets

[EFerrari]

56. Will they get it? And how many more will need it?

Sophie's Choice. :(

[noamnety]

70. 3 billion for wounded vets

100 billion to create wounded vets.


*douses local population with cancer-causing chemicals*
*buys cancer wigs for everyone!*
*gets pissed when people protest*

[dkofos]

2. Add me to the list

[Solly Mack]

48. Will do :)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. If voting against funding Bush's war makes one a traitor, I'm all for treason.

[Solly Mack]

49. Me too, actually

[libnnc]

7. Hang me too. I dare ya.

[Solly Mack]

50. They can't hang us all :)

[helderheid]

8. Count me in. Had those "traitors" been the majority we would never have gone to Iraq.

[Solly Mack]

9. and there it is

[Individualist]

11. Damn right!

I'm proud to be a bring them home now traitor.

[TahitiNut]

13. 'Xactly.

:patriot:

[AliceWonderland]

29. Succinctly put. n/t

[Double T]

10. NO. Not a 'traitor' either;...............

just a revolutionary patriot.

[Solly Mack]

51. That'll work

[TahitiNut]

12. Now the question is whether the 'centrists' will capitulate or reciprocate.

Capitulation would be to pander to those profiteering from the killing and bloodshed.
Reciprocation would be to ally with the staunch liberals (who gave this enough support to pass) and draw a harder line in the sand.

I'm expecting the Quisling capitulation option but hoping for reciprocation. (The 'centrists' seem to hate the liberals in their own party more than the conservatives in the GOP.)

[Solly Mack]

14. In a nutshell

Thank you!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

15. If we had a poll up on DU right now of those that want immediate pull out of Iraq, I am

sure the "traitors" will be in abundance.

[Solly Mack]

52. I agree...and with several "buts"

lol

[blm]

16. We are now in a world where Kucinich is a traitor and Robert Parry is smeared

as a propagandist and an opportunist, fer chrissakes.

I was for the vote and sided with the leadership's decision on it, but, I'll be damned if I will tolerate smears against those who voted against it because they want the war defunded. They didn't threaten the majority.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

20. I think the fact that they didn't threaten the majority is a major point

If they had, it would be different. And it's not as if they were voting in agreement with the Repugs, but rather against the war funding in general.

[Solly Mack]

22. Hi blm

And I'd wager Pelosi knew the majority wouldn't be threatened by those voting nay

[blm]

24. Exactly - she wouldn't have scheduled the vote at all. For DUers (of all people) to

attack the left who stuck with their conviction to defund the war is more disgusting than anything a freeper could say against the left.

[Solly Mack]

28. Thank you!

She would not have scheduled the vote otherwise

Yet I've been accused of not understanding "politics"

[Nutmegger]

17. You will get a R and K from me.

Because I would have voted my conscience for this too.

[Solly Mack]

54. Thanks,Nutmegger!!!

[merh]

18. You aren't a traitor

But I can't agree with your stance on this bill. To be successful, you have to be united against the evil that has wrecked our nation.

Rep Murtha says it all about this bill - I agree with him
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Murtha_hold_back_tears_during_Iraq_0323.html

Those against it have to ask themselves, is it better to have a time limit or no time limit? Their voting against it voted against the time limit, so they stand with the republicans.

It really is that very simple. :patriot:

[Solly Mack]

26. They didn't stand with the republicans, sorry

they stood with their conscience and that is a huge difference

As a military family, let me say..NO ONE in government "supports" my husband or my husband would have never had to go to Iraq. And it's really just that simple from my where I'm sitting.

They are, of course, welcome to prove to me now that they do support my husband.

Remaining in Iraq does not prove that.

War of lies for lies. That's not support.

Not enough proper equipment. That's not support.

Shoddy medical care. That's not support

But I don't blame those trying to end it and force Bush's hand

I blame Bush in this...and I know it's Bush that will hurt the troops because of this bill.

It won't be those voting yea and it for damn sure isn't the democrats that voted nay

[merh]

32. The bill that they voted against provided for more

money for vets, money for equipment, money for military families, as well as a time limit, a deadline - listen to Murtha again. Now we know that bush will veto it, but at least it was a step forward and if, it had received enough votes, a unity of postion, it is possible that more repubs would have fallen from their stance with the president and supplied enough to override the veto. Now you and the others in the military are left with nothing. It will take baby steps at first to get the footing to defeat the 6 years worth of intimidation and bullying that has controlled congress and paralyzed many. Better to take the baby steps forward than none at all. Give the dems momentum, give them the power of the many and the time can be altered to earlier once they prove they have the support and the votes. Do what the "nos" did today and you limit the forward movement. Even members of our own party won't stand with us and up to bush.

Damn shame in my book.

[Solly Mack]

34. They knew Bush would veto it before voting. It is not a case

of "now" knowing.

Bush said well before the vote he would veto it.

3-9-2007
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/08/democrats.iraq/index.html

"A spokesman for President Bush said any such plan would be "an artificial, precipitous withdrawal from Iraq based on, unfortunately, politics in Washington, not on conditions on the ground in Baghdad, Iraq."

Obviously, the administration would vehemently oppose and ultimately veto any legislation that looked like what was described today," said Dan Bartlett, White House counsel."

3-16 2007
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/15/congress.iraq.ap/index.html?eref=rss_latest

and from the same article
"I want this war to end. I don't want to go to any more funerals," said New York Rep. Jose Serrano, one of several liberal Democrats who have pledged their support for the legislation despite preferring a faster end to the war."

That shows that liberal members crossed over to vote in favor of the legislation...you honestly think the outcome of the vote wasn't more or less known BEFORE the actual vote? Of course it was

Pelosi knew going in that those who would not cross over would not hurt the majority vote.

The troops are being used as a political tool between opposing sides. How exactly is that supposed to make me and mine feel good about any of it?

Republicans to the Democratic Party: They don't support the troops - they made Bush veto a bill. They want the troops to lose.

Democratic Party to Republican Party: They don't support the troops - or they would support this bill

Democrats to other Democrats: You don't support the troops if you vote against it. You're a traitor



What the troops hear from EVERYONE

You're just a political tool to be used to attack others with.


People need to stop using MY FAMILY to attack other democrats with. We aren't some weapon to be used to gain political points with.

And if military families are to be used,I only ask that we be used to stop the war



But don't tell me voting nay on that bill prevents money to care for the troops...the troops haven't been cared for since the beginning of this war of lies. The troops never were getting the money needed for equipment and medical care. Yet billions have been lost. Just disappeared...that could have been used to help the troops.

America went to war without once preparing for it. Without once getting military hospitals ready or equipment ready...and now I'm supposed to get angry because 14 people voted their conscience?

I don't fucking think so.


Bush will be the one that uses his power of office to hurt the troops because of the bill.

merh, I adore you...I do

I'm not angry at anyone in the Democratic Party over this bill. I just don't agree that those democrats voting nay hurt anything or anyone in the doing

I understand the pressure this vote put on Bush in the public's eye.

The republicans voting nay did so for political reasons...to support a criminal war and a criminal President.

Just wanted you to know that

[merh]

38. This is my point "They knew Bush would veto it before voting."

To stand united and say "we came together, we compromised, we created a bill that would do more than just fund the fighting, we created a bill that helps the military, the veterans, that gives equipment" that united front would be more powerful when standing up to Bush and standing up for the troops than a vote for your conscious - we want out now.

I adore you too, you know that -- I don't think you are a traitor and never could. I'm not angry with the dems, I am disappointed, it takes standing up together to make an impact. They blew the hand, he dealt them their winning hand and they blew it, they could have voted for strength of purpose.

:hug:

[Solly Mack]

39. But merh, I don't want the fighting funded :o)

:hug:

[merh]

43. Sweetie, I know that - but it will be fundied, whether you want it or

not, there is no way they are going to turn their backs on the troops, NO FUCKING WAY - to you and me, making the troops be in Iraq is turning their back on them, but to most everyone else, we have to be there until the Iraqis stand on their own, we broke the bloody place. As long as troops are there, they deserve the equipment they need and this bill would have provided that. Was it perfect? No, but it was a start, it was the beginning of taking control, and you have to start somewhere.

[Breeze54]

31. No, It's not that simple. You're wrong.

No money? No war! That was the reason!

Bush was still given an an out on the time limit.

Congressional Legislation

'Making emergency supplemental appropriations for the fiscal year
ending September 30, 2007, and for other purposes. '

Bill # H.R.1591

Original Sponsor:
David Obey (D-WI 7th)

About This Legislation:
This summary has been edited for length

http://www3.capwiz.com/c-span/issues/bills/?billtype=H.R.&billnumb=1591&congress=110

"Sets a maximum number of days for deployment in Iraq for military units.
Authorizes the President to waive such prohibition and deployment limits
on a unit-by-unit basis for reasons of national security."

He's always saying that Iraq is a matter of our national security. :evilfrown:
That's his mantra!

Leaving our troops there for another TWO YEARS is BS!!

---------------

Iraq Resolution Debate Statement
Submitted by Dennis Kucinich on Wed, 2007-02-14 00:00.

http://kucinich.us/taxonomy/term/18

"Each and every time Congress votes to fund the war, it votes to reauthorize the war," said Kucinich.
"Funding the war is approval of the war." But first, he declared, "Congress must take responsibility.
The Federal Court has made it abundantly clear that once a war is well underway, Congress's real
power is to cut off funds. "The American people are waiting for us to provide real leadership to show
the way out of Iraq. We must recognize the wrong that has been done and move to right it."

[merh]

33. No, you are wrong.

I'm well aware what the bill provides, I am not an idiot who doesn't take the time to review what is proposed and I DON'T NEED YOU to try to teach me.

You see things in black and white, I see things as they work in the legislature, it takes unity of position to be able to have a position that will bring about change. Kunich and the rest KNOW that bush will veto the bill, their "vote of conscience" did nothing more than question the force of the party in power. Had all the dems voted for the bill, the power of the united would have been hard for the repubs and the pres to ignore.

Some times you have to take a stand for making a change, even if that change is not as big as you want at the moment. Small changes are so much better than none at all. A time limit is better than nothing.

In the future, you may want to reword your posts to not treat me like some idiot. In my opinion YOU ARE WRONG and totally ignorant of how the last 6 years have made it difficult to legislate for any dem. There is one thing the repubs have had in their favor that we just don't get, they will vote to show a unity of purpose, we won't, we want what we want and when we want it. It won't work for us that way until we put more dems in both houses, until that time, we have to learn to compromise and take the little victories until we can get the bigger victories.

[fooj]

36. Personally, I view this as a positive step forward.

Above all...I TRUST Jack Murtha. Watch the video of him on the House floor today. He loves our military. He has fought tooth and nail to do right by them. This is only the beginning, imo.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x487015

Take a look. He's got their backs. Count on it.

:hi:

I'm in full agreement Merh. It's not always ALL or NOTHING. It can't be. If it was, we would be them, eh?:smoke:

[merh]

40. I would stand with Murtha any day of the week

Kunich's position to me is too much like Bush's, my way or no way, what I want or I won't vote with you. Fuck that - time to be statesmen over politicians, time to weight what is good over what you want. Funding for PTSD, funding for armoured vehicles, funding for brain injuries, funding for military familes, funding for Afghanistan troops and the pres had the nerve to say it had too much pork.

We have to take care of the soldiers fighting and those that have come home, we would have more power getting them out of Iraq if we stood together and let it be known that we will stand together for the troops.

[Breeze54]

58. I quoted with a link. Not teaching!

That's what is expected if you use a quote, last I read the rules. If you feel like
an idiot because I backed up my position with a link to an excerpt, then you have
more problems to deal with then this war and the votes today.

Knock that chip off your shoulder. You'll feel better.
(Qualifier: JMO)

[merh]

59. You are the one with a chip. Here's a hint

if you want discussion, instead of boldly stating someone is wrong, post that you disagree. Your attitude is what caused my response, you get what you give. You might want to check your own shoulder and why you are at it, learn to utilize the HTML codes.

Most people quote language from a link by putting the quote in italics or in quotations or bold or maybe even using the quotation feature in the HTML code.

[Breeze54]

60. Go look again.

I used " " and html...

Have a great night! :)

[merh]

61. You didn't use it effectively now did you

Go look again.
Posted by Breeze54


I used " " and html...

Have a great night!

And this smilie might be one you want to use from time to time :sarcasm: , though it's not necessary in your latest post as your sentiments are obvious.

[mmonk]

19. Present.

[Solly Mack]

47. and accounted for : o)

:)

[Moochy]

21. Traitorous No Votes!

K&R!

A vote of conscience against a spending bill that gives more money to Cheney is being ridiculed by the usual paternalistic center-of-the-road coalition, oh well. Nuff said.

[Solly Mack]

42. I want the criminal lie that's politely called a "war" ended

I'm tired of being told to have patience.

My husband served in Iraq...and could very well go back

"Time" isn't exactly on our side.

Every single day brings him that much closer to dying for a pack of lies.

I wish people understood that.

Other people want me to understand their points of views...but no one seems to understand that time isn't an abstract for us.

It matters.

It's life or death.

[Moochy]

53. Agree 100%

It is Life or Death. Not about image, or about the 2008 elections. People who lecture on about how the "system works" are suffering from limited, perhaps even STUNTED imaginations.

:kick:

[marmar]

23. De acuerdo....

Pelosi lost me when the Iran language was taken out.

[Solly Mack]

55. Hi,marmar!

I never liked the bill

[hedgehog]

25. Going in knowing that it was going to be vetoed gave us the best of all worlds.

We got to vote to support the troops and set a date for ending this war.

[Solly Mack]

30. Of course that helped

I doubt there would have been a vote otherwise

[EFerrari]

27. Here. n/t

[Solly Mack]

46. You bad, bad person you! :o)

[karlrschneider]

35. I'm glad I didn't have a vote. It would've been a tough decision.

Strong message on what I'd truly want vs. hope for a realistic chance. It will piss off both sides anyway, more's the pity.

[Robbien]

37. Yep. Me. It has been an overwhelmingly sad day.

I feel the same way as on the day they voted authorization to invade.

[Solly Mack]

41. Yeah..pretty much

I'm getting so disgusted I'm almost resigned to it all

I'm not angry.

I still have hope (which defies all reason) lol

sigh

[BuyingThyme]

44. Traitor here.

:hi:

[Solly Mack]

45. LOL! Hiya!

:)

[dogday]

57. I like politicians who vote their conscience

not the party line... I think they should put their heart and soul into each vote and stand behind it. Sometimes though, they vote to make statements, or to trade off for their bills, I understand that as well....

[Solly Mack]

66. I do too

[kdpeters]

62. Not me!!!

I've got this new strategy when talking with right-wingers. They give me bullshit? I tell them to quit giving me bullshit. They give me crap? I tell them to cut the crap. They give me empty slogans and meaningless jingo buzzwords? I tell them they're giving me empty slogans and meaningless jingo buzzwords. I ask them if they can even precisely define what they're talking about supporting it with official administration policy.

Call them on their bullshit. It's surprisingly effective. You won't believe how quickly you can expose the emptiness of their argument.

[leftchick]

63. me too!

stop the funding of an illegal occupation which is killing thousands of people monthly is all I ask. I am against any bill which calls for the continued presence of US troops in Iraq to protect the palace, bases and oil. Call me a traitor I don't care.

[Solly Mack]

67. It's a matter of life and death for many of us that it stop

and stop now

Each tick of the clock brings Iraqis closer to death and the troops closer to death

Politics be damned...people are dying in the name of politics and that can't be good or right or moral or decent

[Orsino]

64. Yeah. Any measure that avoids the elephant in the living room...

...is guaranteed to inspire dissidence. There are good, principled reasons to have voted nay. Personally, I'm inclined to settle, but I won't diss anyone (such as my man Kucinich) who stands for peace, my ultimate goal.

[Solly Mack]

68. Thank you

[spanone]

65. I'm with Solly!

[Solly Mack]

69. Thanks,spanone!!

:hug: