For those of you who couldn't understand why so many gay posters were so angry over Warren

[dsc]

this saturday you get a chance to see why.

http://www.mylifetime.com/on-tv/movies/prayers-bobby



If you prefer you can read the book by the same title. It is the totally true, totally heartbreaking story of a young man driven to suicide by a well meaning mother who tries to save his soul by curing his gayness. Instead she just makes him so miserable he kills himself. She wasn't evil. She didn't hate her kid. She was merely doing what the Warren of her day told her to do. She had to save his soul and that was the only thing which mattered.

There isn't a gay person who doesn't know someone raised in a religion which active rejected him or her as a gay person. Fortunately we don't all kill ourselves but far too many of us do. Watch the film, then you might understand why seeing Warren on that stage enraged us. Bobby is no less dead than someone who gets killed by someone holding a gun or a knife.

[Hugabear]

1. This is why we should go after hate-mongering churches the same way we do extremist hate groups

Just because people like Warren don't openly advocate the murder of homosexuals, doesn't make them any better than extremist hate groups that do. By cloaking their homophobia with religion, they make "acceptable" for many Americans to discriminate against gays. If we can use RICO laws to go after hate groups, why not hate-mongering churches?

Don't give me any of this "freedom of religion" stuff either. Freedoms are not absolute. We don't allow people to engage in human sacrifice. We don't allow polygamy. There are other religious practices that we don't allow. Why should we tolerate violence and discrimination?

[cliffordu]

51. Been screaming this for years.

They are little more than a death cult.

[foxfeet]

2. Thank you.

K&R
:kick:

[Mike 03]

3. Self-Deleted: You are right. I was wrong. Sorry. NT

[Marrah_G]

6. OMFG are you kidding me????

Please, please educate yourself before saying something like that.

[Mike 03]

8. Maybe I'm wrong. What did he say?? NT

[Marrah_G]

13. It's not what he said YESTERDAY

It's the message he gives every day. Comparing gay people to pedophiles and murderers. Do you have any idea what that does to a gay child? Being told every day that they are evil, perverted, mentally ill? To give that person, a person who is not just anti-gay, but an anti gay activist a place of honor, legitimizing him in front of 100's of millions is where the problem lies.

Change gay to black......would you still feel it was just fine to have a white supremist activist on stage giving sectarian sermons, legitimizing his racist activism just as long as he didn't say something racist that day?

Be honest now.

[Mike 03]

15. You are right. If that is his message, he is a hateful, unforgiveable and ignorant human being.

I retract what I wrote.

I was not aware he had spoken or written in that way. It's shameful.

[Marrah_G]

16. Thank you !!!!

really really thank you !

:hug:

Mike~ Thank you for listening to us.

[Mike 03]

18. I'm sorry. I should not have even posted on this issue, being unfamiliar

with those things he had said or written.

[Marrah_G]

22. But see, now you know

and you can pass the information along too, and then maybe someday, the grip these jerks have on people will be broken by the power of knowledge.

[juno jones]

63. If you wish to get further aquainted with his agenda in Africa:

A recent diary from troutfishing at Daily Kos:

Warren-Endorsed Nigerian Leader Backed Anti-Gay Laws Worse Than Pre-WW2 Third Reich's

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/24/191631/90


His new article under his given name Bruce Wilson is at Talk 2 Action:


Rick Warren's African Allies Tied To Massacres, Sex-Slavery, Forced Labor, Concentration Camps

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/1/19/113845/387/Front_Page/Rick_Warren_s_African_Allies_Tied_To_Massacres_Sex_Slavery_Forced_Labor_Concentration_Camps

PS: Remember Palin's 'Witchfinder" Muthee? Same bunch.

[dsc]

9. Yes he is

He is clear and unambiguous in his opinion of gays. They need to change or they don't go to heaven. They can't even be members of his church. But your post is why we were so upset because now when we say what he actually believes we will hear but his prayer was so reasonable.

[Mike 03]

12. My Mistake. Okay... I am not a "follower" of Rick Warren's work. I just heard what I head

yesterday. It was the first time I've ever seen the guy.

I am sorry if I'm wrong. That is just what I saw yesterday.

[Rockholm]

20. That is the scary part.

For people who had never heard of him or knew of the controversy, Warren came across as long-winded but "all inclusive." This was probably his plan.
I appreciate your seeing the light and understanding and accepting what we feel.

[Mike 03]

30. Thank you for telling me the full story. I owe the GLBT community a huge apology. I have been a

HUGE supporter of that community and LAMBDA legal ever since those horrific propositions passed in California, Florida and Arizona.

My posting here was dumb. Based on the posts here, I was sure Warren would be some monster, but as you pointed out, he was definitely hiding that part of his message.

[dsc]

31. I am glad to see this

People like Warren actively work to hide their true natures from the majority of people.

[madamesilverspurs]

24. As you point out,

"they can't even be members of his church." That's because "his" church is more accurately a cult centered on Warren. "His" church, "his" rules. The Jesus he purports to serve would have nothing to do with Warren's ego-driven pulpiteering. Jesus referred to such people as "whited sepulchers," bright and shiny coffins full of death and corruption.

[Bluenorthwest]

65. Except no matter what Warren thinks or desires

A certain number of his congregation, if only among the youth, are in fact gay and trans and everything, underage and dragged to this place.
Warren and his followers indulge in classic prejudice, pre judging. They think they speak of distant 'others' in big corrupt cities, wearing leather or drag, hanging out in dark back alley clubs...but in fact the message is delivered to their own young people, to their faces.
The problems they have revolve around acceptance of their own, whom they now bully, abuse, and finally reject.

[lunatica]

11. His words were lies because he doesn't believe or practice them

The messages of God's grand love are useless when what comes out of the mouths of hatemongers who practice hate and criticism and homophobia while saying it's love.

Bush did that for 8 years. He thinks that he can condemn terrorists for killing innocent people while waging a war on innocent people. See, the words are lies.

Warren sounds just as reasonable when he puts gays on the same level as pedophiles. But he'll tell you he loves gays.

[The Doctor.]

14. Couldn't agree more. No one of conscience should have been 'ok' with it.

Hope he and his ilk have fits over Obama's agenda.

[1776Forever]

23. Read these 3 articles from Time, Huffington Post and Reality Check for the truth!

So you think that Rick Warren is just a loving person with no ulterior motives - boy are you in for a BIG surprise!

Rick Warren churches in Africa that use PEPFAR faith-based money are using anti hate filled GLBT language, along with telling women to stay in abusive relationships even if their husbands beat them.

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/12/19/untold-consequences-rick-warrens-aids-activism

Warren-Endorsed Nigerian Archbishop Backed Anti-Gay Laws Worse Than Pre-WWII Third Reich's

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wilson/warren-endorsed-nigerian_b_153412.html

AND

Time Magazine: The Global Ambition of Rick Warren
By David Van Biema Thursday, Aug. 07, 2008

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1830147,00.html

(snip)

The halting progress of Warren's PEACE program raises another question: Is he oversubscribed? I ask him how many countries there are in the world. Of course, he knows: "There's 195 countries." I think, 195 countries, and so far, even one seems to be a challenge. As Warren tallies it, he is just 28 years into a 40-year commitment to pastor Saddleback. He has written a holiday book, The Purpose of Christmas. He spent much of the past six months in 20 countries doing purpose-driven training and will be traveling to New York City in November, when 350 churches will do "40 Days of Purpose." As we speak, he is in Buenos Aires; yesterday was Brazil. His networking presents escalating opportunities, but of course, opportunities eat time. "It's the most amazing thing," he says. "I've had to add a new hat: my statesman hat. I had a call the other day from a President in Africa asking me to contact a President in Asia to set up a meeting." Then there's his business hat: "I put this unbelievably big deal together. The bottom line was $300 million." How did it happen? "A guy called me and asked me, 'Would you call this person?,' and I said, 'Well, it's not my role or anything I aspire to,' but out of it came this huge deal."

.......

All of us really need to watch this guy. Oh yeah, I left out his telling his people they need to love him as much as the Nazi followed Hitler -

Read on:

Follow Jesus Like Nazis Followed Hitler, Rick Warren Tells Stadium Crowd
Bruce Wilson
Posted January 15, 2009

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wilson/follow-jesus-like-nazis-f_b_158295.html

..........

No I am NOT kidding!

[varelse]

4. I didn't even make it through the trailer

:'(

[xchrom]

5. off to the greatest nt

[Kahuna]

7. I understood. I also understood there was no way Obama was going

to rescind the invitation.

[cynatnite]

10. In the documentary 'For the Bible Tells Me SO' there was a similar story...

A mother's lesbian daughter committed suicide. The mother had given her daughter a lot of grief. It was so tragic. Now, the mother is a GLBT activist.

[Marrah_G]

17. can you imagine the moment that mother "woke up"?

realizing she drove her child to suicide? what a horrible thing to live with. I'm glad she is doing what she is doing now.

[jonnyblitz]

26. I just watched that one. it was quite good. I learned the back

story about Gene Robinson from it.

[dsc]

28. It is a great film

[jonnyblitz]

34. very much so. The blonde boy, Jason, featured in the film with

his parents who protested and got arrested outside "focus on the family" among other things was also featured raising hell in recruiters' offices trying to enlist while proclaiming his gayness with other soulforce people in another documentary called "Ask Not". those soulforce people get out there and do stuff.

here is a trailer and video clip for 'Ask Not". I recommend this if you haven't seen it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbmCYSaHm2U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqJyLNvJql4&feature=related

[dsc]

36. I was so impressed with both him and his parents

Great family values.

[jonnyblitz]

43. I was surprised to see him in both documentaries.

the kid gets around. :D

[EFerrari]

19. No more coddling haters while our children die.

:kick:

[L. Coyote]

21. ... just be glad Jerry Falwell died!

:rofl:

[IntravenousDemilo]

25. Do you know if it will be aired in Canada?

BTW, the guy who plays Bobby's boyfriend David is the centaur in the shower in that Old Spice commercial running recently.

[dsc]

27. It is on lifetime network

which may be on canadian cable.

[FreeState]

35. iTunes has many of the lifetime shows and movies - hopefully they will feature it there too (links)

Here is the link to all the previous Lifetime Movies in iTunes (they have quite a few so I fully expect it to be there eventually)

USA: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewTVShow?id=209318788

Canada: I cant find a link right now... will edit if I find it...

[Tsiyu]

29. The man is so disgustingly distasteful to me

because of what I know he stands for - I could not watch any of the ceremony itself. I did not want to ruin the day for myself seeing him anywhere near what I envisioned as a new beginning for my country.

To me, he represents the same old evil calling itself divinely led, the wolf in sheeps clothing.

He fools too many. I'm glad so many DUers are, like me, not fooled.

K&R

[glitch]

44. Warren is why someone, somewhere thought up the word "loathsome"

and "vile". And "smarmy". For now, I may think of others later, if necessary.

[Tsiyu]

45. How about "malevolent"

"sleezy," "villain," "lowlife," "glutton," and my favorite from the trusty thesaurus, "slubberdegullion."


To add a mere few....

[glitch]

47. Oh my. You made me look up a word and now I LOVE IT slubberdegullion

"a slobbering or dirty fellow, a worthless sloven", "a mean dirty wretch"

IT'S PERFECT

[Tsiyu]

55. I know. It's a great word, isn't it? : )

:)

I've been just waiting to use it. Warren provides the perfect opportunity.

[Mike 03]

32. Kick and Rec, even though my replies make me look like a total ass.

LOL

This is important information to know, if your first and only experience of Rick Warren was his speech yesterday.

[dsc]

33. far from it

Your replies show you to be caring, concerned, and teachable. Who could ask for more?

[Forkboy]

40. Just the opposite.

[fishwax]

37. k/r

:kick:

[Lawyer From Dallas]

38. You said it!

Perfect example.

[Mike 03]

39. dsc, I feel terrible that my initial reaction to your post was not more

sensitive. I was dead wrong, and I'm very sorry.

Mike

[Libertyfirst]

53. We all comehere in part to learn. You did that and we appreciate your support.

[Bluenorthwest]

66. The bravest words in our language...

"I was wrong."
Seriously, you are to be commended for your conclusion not condemned for your opening questions!

[Forkboy]

41. K&R

:kick:

[mentalsolstice]

42. My problem with Warren @ the inauguration is lining his pockets with $$

I suspect that there will be enough clueless people who will buy his book simply because he gave the invocation. I'm one of those people who tries hard to speak out and protest with my money.

[Starry Messenger]

46. k & r.

[4 t 4]

49. I won't say I understand

because I haven't gone through it but please give BO a chance I think he will suprise you. He is all for equal rights for all. Just please give him a few minutes I think you will be pleasantly surprised. He wants equal rights for all he just has to figure it out so no one can opposise it. Don't you think that is poss. in what he is thinking ? Groups have been to hard on him, give him a minute.

[dsc]

50. I will give him two years

I had better see at least one of the big three (ENDA, Hate Crimes, or DADT) addressed in that time.

[Libertyfirst]

54. I agree. And I am betting on Obama coming through.

[NashVegas]

48. dsc, Did You Watch The Daily Show Last Night?

Jon Stewart more or less outed Warren in the opener, and Robinson was the guest.

Robinson said he told Rick Warren he (Robinson) would pray for him.

[ZombieHorde]

52. K&R for truth to masses. nt

[defendandprotect]

56. Patriarchal religions tell parents just that --- be intolerant of their sexual orientation....

because it's a CHOICE!!!

Many parents have surrendered to loving their child, instead of listening to religious

hatemongers.

Love the organization "Parents & Friends of Lesbians and Gays" -- PFLAG

We need more ELLEN type shows -- I think she did a great deal to help us all understand truth.

[BlooInBloo]

57. I understood, and agreed that it was a shittacular choice....

I disagreed with those who claimed it was THEWORSTTHINGEVEREVENWORSETHANTHEHOLOCAUST.

Those likening Obama to the gestapo were especially laughable.

But as far as the disappointing shitty choice goes, there was never disagreement.

[dsc]

60. that is just bald faced wrong

There were a huge number of threads praising the choice as brilliant and great strategy. Don't tell me you didn't see those.

[Bluenorthwest]

67. Yes there was, and you continue it here

with your contant characterizations. Worse than the holocaust? Yeah, that was what was said. And tons of people here said it was a brilliant choice, all chess master like and grand. Many said they supported the choice of Warren.
And I'd like a link to 'worse than the holocaust'. And anyone who said that should be taken to task harshly. But no one did, because unlike you, GLBTQ folks know that legions of our kind were murdered in that event, which to you is a device for snark making, for sarcasm. The Holocaust as a word bludgeon used against a community that was a prime target during the actual Nazi Holocaust. Very progressive of you!

[Eurobabe]

58. I found the whole thing (Warren) offensive

because I strongly believe in the separation of Church and State. Keep your Religion outta my Government.

I think that Warren guy is a complete phoney. :puke: Just out to sell books, etc. :puke:

The scary thing about these über-religious fundy freaks is the way they brainwash people and draw them into their rapturous fold.

[AntiFascist]

59. K&R, I hope Warren's followers watch this. n/t

[mnhtnbb]

61. It wasn't just gay posters who were angry--this straight 57 y o woman

was FURIOUS!


I was further enraged to hear Warren reference Jesus Christ and lead in The Lord's Prayer.
That was just unempathic and intolerant.

There is no national religion in the U.S. The Constitution guarantees it--whether the reich wing fundie types like it or not. It was totally inappropriate to inject Jesus Christ into the invocation
of the inauguration of the President of the United States.

For pete's sake, when hubby and I were married by a Presbyterian minister, both my matron of honor
and his best man were Jewish. We told the minister, up front, keep it inclusive. We were married
in the matron of honor's home. It was a beautiful ceremony, and the minister opened it up
for our guests (50) to express their personal wishes for our happiness during the ceremony.
That was almost 24 years ago in Los Angeles.

Warren was a poor choice from the start and his performance confirmed what many of us --gay and straight--were screaming about prior to the Inaugural.

[closeupready]

62. I have always loved Sigourney Weaver - this just makes me love her more.

:loveya: Too bad I don't have cable. :(

[dsc]

64. Maybe they will stream it

I could watch her read the phone book she is that good.

[juno jones]

68. I agree. She is amazing.

I will keep an eye out for this movie, thanks, kick, and rec! :)

[EmilyAnne]

69. But, is Rick Warren toast? It sounds like a lot of fundies now see him as "unchristian" because of

his embracing of Obama.

I hope he has been hobbled.

[Strong Atheist]

70. K&R.

Edited: Warren is a *@#%# scumbag sack of s***. ALMOST makes me want to believe in h***. Almost ...

[Ohio Joe]

71. My brother is gay

He was lucky. We all knew, even from a young age that he was gay. My parents raised us to understand that it was perfectly normal. He only had to suffer the taunts of school kids (wicked minor compared to what many have to go through) and the fact that the his natural being prevented him having civil rights like those of us that are straight white people. At the age of 23, he met the man that I consider to be my brother-in-law (though the law does not) and is still with him today (my brother is now 49).

My brother is a fucking hero. He was a first responder as a paramedic at ground zero on 9/11. He was there for over 48 hours with no rest. No fear. He did what needed to be done. He has lived his life as he was created, no shame and fuck anyone that looked down on him because of how he was born.

Thank you Mom and Dad for telling me the truth and not lies!

Equal right for all!

[dsc]

72. what a totally sweet post

Your brother is lucky indeed. Just curious, how did you know he was gay from a young age? Did he tell you or did you figure it out?

[Ohio Joe]

77. I don't really know

As far back as I can remember it just was the way it was. He never had to hide his sexuality any more then a normal teenager has to... at least not at home. Once he was an adult, again his sexuality has never really been a discussion.

My parents get all the credit, they were the ones that taught us that loving someone else is a good thing.

[dsc]

80. that is so cool

I worked so hard for my teen years to hide and or change what I was. I became better at it than any honest person would have been.

[Maven]

74. A message to both you and your brother

:yourock:

[Ohio Joe]

78. Thank you

we were am lucky to have parents that taught us good liberal values!

[RadicalTexan]

76. Thanks to your brother

Give him a hug for us.

Your brother is a hero, and your story reminds me of Pat Tillman. In that gays, atheists, and other minorities are as American as everyone else. And, despite not always having our rights defended, we sacrifice the same as everyone else, too.

:patriot:

[Ohio Joe]

81. Thank you, I will

I'll show him this as well, he will appreciate it! Thanks!

[QC]

73. K&R!

:kick:

[RadicalTexan]

75. I'm not gay, and I was and am VERY angry

To me, this was the same as inviting a segregationist white preacher, or someone who thinks being Mexican is a "sin". This issue is no longer up for debate. I'm all for "talking with" our adversaries, but inviting them to give the invocation at the inauguration is endorsement. These people have proven themselves to be not amenable to reason. So throwing carrots at them like this will not win them over; it will only embolden them. And give them legitimacy.

:grouphug: to all my LGBT fellow Americans.

[CreekDog]

79. I have asked numerous people at church where the Bible says that God changes gay people

knowing that it says no such thing.

and not to expect nor demand that people change their sexuality (which i don't believe is possible).

but it seems like such an uphill battle. :banghead: