Limbaugh Should Be Pulled From Armed Forces Radio ASAP

[Vinnie From Indy]

His hateful, lie filled tirades against the new CIC Obama should not be allowed on Armed Forces Radio. Send him back to his Clear Channel sewer.

[Dennis Donovan]

1. Recommended!!!

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[MineralMan]

22. From the AFRTS FAQ Page

Q: Why does AFN air political-talk radio programs?

A: AFN has an obligation, backed by Congressional mandate, to provide our audience access to the same variety and diversity of programming that they would enjoy if they were back in the States.

Because political talk radio is among the most popular stateside radio formats, AFN currently offers four political radio talk shows on our AFN radio schedule: Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity represent the conservative viewpoint and Ed Schultz and Alan Colmes represent the liberal viewpoint.

===========================================
http://afrts.dodmedia.osd.mil/

[MineralMan]

23. Sorry...DUPE

...

[Dennis Donovan]

29. As the Magistrate very eloquently put it downthread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4888277&mesg_id=4888485

it is a bit much to expect a government to broadcast seditionist speech to members of its armed forces....

[MineralMan]

31. You may be right, of course.

There's certainly no harm in informing the military of what Limpaw is saying.

[Patchuli]

150. Except when it borders on treason...

Bad enough he gets away with buying drugs illegally but hoping that President Obama "fails?" That's about far enough and bit too far.

[JDPriestly]

129. Wait a minute. Free speech applies to Limbaugh as well as to Randi Rhodes.

I can't stand Limbaugh, but the soldiers have the right to make choices about what they hear. Maybe they should offer two stations so that soldiers really have choices.

[Trajan]

162. Sorry ... But free speech does not technically include seditious speech ...

Whether he crossed the line is debatable (I believe he did), but there are certain aspects of speech that are not allowed, and the limits are generally recognized, if still vague in places ....

I say ... Can his ass, and offer another RW blowhard the spot ....

Limbaugh is NOT guaranteed a spot on Armed Forces radio in the US Constitution ....

[Enthusiast]

168. He has crossed the line many times. nt

[glinda]

209. Seditious speech is right. Same with some others from Faux.

I am a huge believer in free speech but for far too long, Rush and friends have been given premo spots and opportunities. Their comments are hate speech not free speech. They should not get the attention that they want and it isn't good for our troops to hear false and hateful blather. If they were angry and telling truths would be one thing but not what they do.

[Enthusiast]

166. Traditionally soldiers never get a voice in

what they are told or what they hear. Constitutional rights don't exactly extend to the U.S. soldier, particularly in a war. The military is not a democracy.

[elleng]

189. I think we've had this debate before, with Wes Clark.

It turned out that Ed Schultz or someone else was added. For CHOICE, choices must be available. If the disgusting ones are the only ones available, I say turn off the radio.

[southernyankeebelle]

231. Limpy

What they should do is have Limpy on than a liberal on and so on. I don't believe he should be stopped however, I think it should be fair lisening programs. These young soldiers are getting spoon feed one point of view. Even on religion activities they are pressuring soldiers to think the way they do.

[4 t 4]

43. I think they took Ed off

[Winterblues]

63. The should have adult bookstores and strip joints on base as well then.

Some people say certain things are not appropriate for our men and women in uniform. I say that politicization of our military should not be something that is desired either.

[Ken Burch]

110. During the Vietnam War, conservatives in Congress objected to base stores selling "Playboy"

They felt the troops shouldn't be "exposed to obscenity".

[kimmylavin]

128. They're still doing it.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/04/military_pornography_stores_042208w/

[Ken Burch]

ALAN COLMES balances Limbaugh and Hannity?

:puke:

[Bette Noir]

143. Thom Hartmann would be a better balance.

I've heard Alan Colmes's show. It's pretty weak.

[certainot]

147. not conservative- they're proven repetitive chickenhawk liars

working for the GOP, spreading the propaganda and laundering the talking points that got us into this mess. they have been wrong about everything important and played a big part in lying us into the occupation- they work for the GOP and if they were up against mike malloy, thom hartman, randi rhodes, or sam seder they wouldn't last long.

[Swagman]

164. OK..but one of them is a junkie

[DireStrike]

207. Why don't they just re-do the whole lineup?

I hear Colmes is better on the radio, but he can't be that much better.

[JDPriestly]

223. He just does not hold his own very well. And he attracts all these

right-wing idiot callers. Colmes has been beaten down to the point that he can barely talk back to extremists. Too many years with that bully Hannity. Maybe Colmes will become stronger once he has recovered from the years on Fox.

[mzmolly]

127. Ditto.

:kick:

[BOSSHOG]

2. Obviously he doesn't support the troops

because he wants their Commander in Chief to Fail. Yo lurkers you are either with us or against us and any negativism directed towards the President of the United States is unpatriotic? Sound familiar?

If ever there was a reason for a return to the Fairness Doctrine it is limbaugh. Intersting that right wing hate radio was birthed by reagan who did away with the doctrine.

[MaraJade]

155. This is precisely the point-- limbo is preaching insubordination

and that should not be tolerated. He has become like some wacko "Mata Hari"
who is encouraging troops to disobey or to sabotage operations so that Obama will fail
in his duty as Commander in Chief.

There is only one POTUS, and it is not Limbo. This has nothing to do with his freedom of speech.
According to the law, speech can be banned if it is intended to incite lawless action.
He is doing a disservice to the nation by placing the notion of disobedience or sabotage out there
for the use of those who may possibly be disgruntled. In these
times of worldwide trouble, our troops don't need to be hearing such destructive and
discouraging messages over the airwaves.

Limbo is disobeying one of the first rules of etiquette: if you have nothing good to say, say nothing.
He most certainly doesn't have to agree or applaud anything about the new administration, but if
he cannot give challenge to Mr. Obama on the merits alone, he needs to find something else to talk
about.

[Enthusiast]

169. He is an American Tokyo Rose!

We don't want him or need him. He should be thrown off AFR with a flourish. The reason for doing so should be plain-seditious speech.

[kristopher]

219. That's a disservice to Tokyo Rose aka Iva Ikuko Toguri

Was a second generation Japanese who got trapped in Japan by the war while visiting her mother's sister. She was completely loyal to the United States.
In fact, her conviction was a travesty of justice directly resulting from a massive misinformation campaign waged by Limpballs ethical mentor Walter Winchell.

http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/famcases/rose/rose.htm
http://www.paperlessarchives.com/rose.html
http://hnn.us/articles/461.html

[Enthusiast]

222. Thank you, kristopher.

Honestly, I had no idea.

[Uncle Joe]

3. I agree, our troops shouldn't be subjected to fascist propaganda.

Thanks for the thread, Vinnie From Indy.

[NeedleCast]

4. Why?

Free speech only applies to people we agree with?

If he's on AFR, that means there's more than likely a demand for it.

[newtothegame]

5. That's what I'm saying...

Just because we're now in charge doesn't mean we can change the rules in areas we don't have a political advantage. That's what the OTHER side does.

[Vinnie From Indy]

11. Not only no, but hell no!

You Limbaugh defenders are hilarious. Removing that fat drug addict from Armed Services Radio is simply a management decision. Limbaugh has no inalienable right to be heard on this network. There are no fucking rules that stipulate that Limbaugh gets to take a giant stinking shit on the truth on Armed Forces Radio on a daily basis. Your view is hilariously uninformed.

[SIMPLYB1980]

15. Well said.

:thumbsup:

[NeedleCast]

35. My views are based on the first amendment

If AFN wants to broadcast Limbaugh they have every right to do so. You want to lobby that they remove his show, fine, but you seem to be suggesting that Limbaugh be removed simply based on the fact that you disagree with him.

While there may be no rules that stipulate that Limbaught gets to be on AFR, there's no rules stipulating that AFR can't broadcaster whatever they hell they want as long as it meets FCC requirements.

I'm not a Limbaugh defender, I'm a constitution defender. You're just another authoritarian attempting to impose your version of "what's good for everyone" on people. Like I said, if there were no demand for Rush on AFR, he wouldn't be on AFR.

[SIMPLYB1980]

45. No I want Limbaugh removed because the things he does

are equivalent to shouting fire in a crowded room. Remember when he was calling for people to riot in Denver? There are many examples of Rush using hate speech to incite violence on his show. Luckily it seams that most of his viewers are smarter than he is. But every once in a while some crazy right winger takes what he says at heart and kills someone on our side.

http://campaigncircus.com/video_player.php?v=9344&keyword=92

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/13/chairman-of-the-arkansas-democratic-party-shot-and-in-critical-condition/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-kim/right-wing-tn-church-shoo_b_115789.html

The man is as much a threat as OBL in my book.

[NeedleCast]

53. The problem with what you want is in what it leads to

if you manage to silence Rush, then I think you wouldn't have any ground to stand on when they decide to remove KO or another left-wing media personality. Many of them see KO and other left wing radio/TV personalities the same way most of us see Rush. So who gets to decide (beyond the FCC) what is and isn't acceptable broadcast media?

Personally I think Rush does more for the left than the rigth. Even the moderate right people I know think he's off his nut. He's provides a great reason not to be a conservative.

Even if you pull Rush there's a G. Gordon or a Beck or a Coulter ready to take his place along with a million other whack-a-mole looney right wingers.

[SIMPLYB1980]

57. I've never heard any left wing radio/TV personalities incite violence.

But Rush and Savage et. al. do it on a regular basis. If KO was inciting violence I would want him off the air as well.

[verges]

141. We're talking AFRS.

They don't carry Olberman. To "balance" Rush and Hannity, they carry Alan Colmes. The audience AFRS is the military. It doesn't make sense to broadcast anti-Commander in Chief propaganda to the troops! It's not really a first amendmemt issue. It's a security and morale issue.

[JPettus]

148. I don't listen to Armed Forces Radio

But I do watch Armed Forces TV here in Afghanistan. And I get to watch KO here. He's carried, I've seen Rachel Maddow once and I know they carry the more popular right winger shows as well, including O'Lielly and Hannity. But they do provide balance on the TV news channel.

[Kajsa]

208. Thanks for the info,JPettus.

It's nice to hear from someone who is there.

Take care of yourself and come home soon!

:) :hi:

[Enthusiast]

175. We aren't talking regular media here. nt

[Jester Messiah]

173. or more of one

OBL is honest in his aims of destroying America. Rush wears the guise of citizenship and claims to want to "save" America. At least OBL can be dealt with directly. (Assuming we're able to find him on a 7-years-cold trail.)

[Vinnie From Indy]

48. Is that all you got?

You write,
"If AFN wants to broadcast Limbaugh they have every right to do so"

Well, technically, they are in the military chain of command and they do what they are told to do ultimately. AFN is not a private enterprise. The organization nor those in it have same "rights" as you or I or a private enterprise.

You write,
"You want to lobby that they remove his show, fine, but you seem to be suggesting that Limbaugh be removed simply based on the fact that you disagree with him."

Well, to be more accurate, me and a few tens of millions of my fellow Americans disagree with Rush. Also, I am suggesting that Limbaugh be removed because it is true that elections do have consequences. Limbaugh got his shot at AFN because of politics and now he will lose his spot on AFN because of politics. Isn't that the reason we had an election last year?

You write,
"While there may be no rules that stipulate that Limbaught gets to be on AFR, there's no rules stipulating that AFR can't broadcaster whatever they hell they want as long as it meets FCC requirements."

Again, you demonstrate a stunning lack of understanding about AFN. AFN is not a private enterprise and the programming is ultimately decided upon by the CIC President Barack Obama. The folks running AFN are in the military chain of command and they will do what they are ordered to do by the CIC Obama. Elections have consequences.

In addition, using your logic, the Bush appointed folks at the EPA should not be replaced at the pleasure of President Obama. In short, your position is ridiculous. President Obama has every right, and a certain obligation, to insure that his election mandate is carried through to whatever he controls.

You write,
"I'm not a Limbaugh defender, I'm a constitution defender."

LOL! Really? How exactly is taking Rush Limbaugh off of AFN a Constitutional issue?

You write,
"Like I said, if there were no demand for Rush on AFR, he wouldn't be on AFR."

Does any sane person actually believe that choosing Limbaugh's show to be on AFN was not a political decision in the first place?

[NeedleCast]

56. Broken Record?

It doesn't matter how many people disagree with Rush. I disagree with Rush, you disagree with Rush, tens of millions of our fellow Americans disagree with Rush.

My dad disagrees with Olberman. My mom disagrees with Olberman. Tens of millions of our fellow Americans disagree with Olberman...

See where this is going?

Having an election doesn't have anything to do with what's going to bebroadcast in the media. We don't get to start shutting down dissenting voices simply because we win. That's the sure way to tyranny.

And what do you think happens when you take Rush off AFN? The other side begins crying about supression...and justifyably so. If the Republicans win in 2016 and demand Rachel and Keith be taken off the air would you go "well, they won so I guess that's okay?" Surely you would not?

My logic doesn't suggest that Obama shouldn't get to replace any staffer that he has the right to replace. In fact, he should do so. Comparing presidential appointments and on-air radio personalities...if that's not apples and oranges I don't know what is.

[Vinnie From Indy]

61. You are obtuse to the extreme

You continually argue as though AFN radio is a private enterprise and that any thought of replacing Limbaugh is exactly the same is "shutting down dissenting voices" implying censorship. Because your basic premise of what AFN is and how it operates is so terribly flawed, it is difficult to engage in debate with you on this issue.

I repeat again that the Armed Forces Radio Network is NOT A PRIVATE ENTERPRISE. It is NOT the same as Clear Channel or Disney or CBS or NBC or any private broadcast company. Removing Rush from AFN and replacing him with a different broadcast is so far removed from censorship it boggles the mind. You can kick and moan about "silencing" voices as much as you like, but your arguments are still nakedly silly and uninformed.

[NeedleCast]

76. Yes, I'm aware

I am aware that AFN is not a private enterprise. That being said, I still don't agree with the removal of opposite viewpoints simply because you (or Obama) can.

Like I said upthread, there are some who listen to AFN who want to hear Rush. *I* like to listen to Rush, if only in a macrabe "watching a car carsh" sort of way. Plus, I figure sometime in the next four years I'm going to get to listen to his head explode live, on air, and that'll be fun.

Again, the wingnuts are already crying about how their going to be treated by Obama so I don't see any reason to justify their insantiy. Additionaly, when the Republicans manage to win the white house again, and they will at some point, I wouldn't want them taking some I agreed with off air just because they could.

I'd love to see a left wing program added to AFN. Maybe with Obama in the house it'll happen. I just don't think that Obama wielding his power as CiC to pull a program is a good idea. It provides ammunition to all the nutters.

Please believe that I understand what AFN is and isn't. Because it is a station that is directly controlled by the military and indirectly controlled by Obama, I think it's tie in to the first amendment is even more direct. I agree that if AFN is going to air Rush, it needs to air an equal amount of time of our side of the argument, or, better yet, no political talking-heads at all. Its one thing if AFN says "we're pulling Rush." It's a totally different animal if AFN says "We're pulling Rush because Obama said so."

All that being said, from the stuff you've said in other threads, I don't think you want Rush off just AFN, I think you want him shut down, period. You seem to be arguing, in essence, that because you don't like Rush, no one should listen to Rush.

[RaleighNCDUer]

113. You really don't know what you are talking about.

AFN IS MILITARY.

If you or I say "Damn the president!" people will think us rude.
If a person in the military says "Damn the president!" he will be up for a court martial.

This is NOT a free speech issue. It is about good order and discipline in the military, and Limbaugh saying on air that he hopes Obama will fail is counter to that good order and discipline.

He has every right to say it, but NOT on military airwaves. If a service member wants to listen to Limbaugh they can pick him up on computer from civilian sources.

[NeedleCast]

118. No, I really don't think YOU know what you're talking about

I spent five years in the military, three of them, unfortunately, under Bush. I criticized him vocally on a large number of occasions. Many people agreed with me, including several superior officers. Some people didn't, and argued with me. Amazingly, I was never brought up on charges of sedition. Neither were any other people who criticized Bush, and there were plenty of us. In fact, I don't know of a single instance in which a person in the military was brought up on charges under UCMJ for being critical of the president.

You do the military quite a bit of discredit by assuming they are not capable of good order and discipline because there are people among the 1.3 million active duty members who might not agree politically. Amazingly (by your standards) the men and women of our military don't seem to be spending any time at all killing each other over their political differences. How can that be with people like Limbaugh?!?!

AFN plays everything from Football to the Simpsons. They used to play fucking Mystery Science Theater 3000 at like 2:00 AM on Thursday night, which was good if you were in Korea and had the day off.

You make it sound like AFN airs nothing but Sousa marches and Rush.

[Venceremos]

165. I got an Article 15 for criticizing Reagan

I was in the Army when Reagan froze military pay, it was either 1981 or 82. I was stationed in Oklahoma, and a local TV station was interviewing soldiers about the pay freeze as we came out of the PX. On camera and in uniform, I told the reporter I thought Reagan was "wrong" and "unfair" and "he should do our jobs for a week before deciding we don't deserve a raise".

Apparently, the Army reviews taped soldier interviews in order to approve them for broadcast. So a couple days later my CO read me the right act for publicly criticizing the Commander in Chief while in uniform. He was a great guy, but he said he had to discipline me to satisfy his superior, so he gave me an Art. 15. I got a wrist slap - restriction with extra duty for a week. But he said if I ever did it again my punishment would be "much worse".

So they will punish soldiers for criticizing the President, or at least they did back in the 80's.

[Enthusiast]

177. Let the wingnut squeal

They will squeal about something or nothing anyway. Their throats must be getting sore from all the faux outrage.

[pasto76]

88. When in uniform you give up many constitutional rights

I DO NOT have freedom of speech when in Uniform. Merely saying "I want to fail." as a non-commissioned officer, is prosecutable under Uniform Code of Military Justice.

If I was an OFFICER, it is TREASON, and punishable in the most severe way.

[NeedleCast]

97. And this has what to do with pulling Rush

Rush is neither in the military or subject to UCMJ.

[Enthusiast]

176. Rush=Tokyo Rose. nt

[newtothegame]

79. Doesn't matter why it went on AFN if the demand is there...n/t

[Name removed]

51. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Politicalboi]

100. Rush promotes hate

Now if he wanted to stay on the issues then that's ok. But the first time I heard that song Barack the magic Negro was on his show. How well did that go over at the bases. Is his show over loud speakers? Why should others be subjected to this asshole where they can't escape. Are the prisoners at Gitmo exposed to this piece of shit? As long as you are not forced to hear it then let him stay on but make him have standards. He must be held accountable for what he says. He doesn't have to agree with Obama and he can have his own opinion but bad jokes, racial smears, mocking disabled people are out.

[plantwomyn]

107. Check out the website.

"AFRTS is the American Forces Radio and Television Service. It is part of the Department of Defense, and is headquartered in Alexandria, Virginia. The AFRTS mission is to communicate Department of Defense policies, priorities, programs, goals and initiatives. AFRTS provides stateside radio and television programming, "a touch of home," to U.S. service men and women, DoD civilians, and their families serving outside the continental United States."

"here's no rules stipulating that AFR can't broadcaster whatever they hell they want as long as it meets FCC requirements."
I doubt seriously that the FCC has a damn thing to say about AFRTS.
"whatever they hell they want" ??????? They are us. The Taxpayers of the U.S. pay for AFRTS and WE sure as hell should have something to say about who and what is spewed over a network created to keep our troups and their families informed and entertained.
Check out http://www.semperfithemovie.com/
There are vids of this Marine's play on you tube. He says in the play that they didn't know that NO WMD were found in Iraq and that he didn't find out until he came home after being injured. I'm sure whhile he was in Iraq he got his fill of Rush.
They need to know what's really going on and Rush isn't the one who is going to tell them.
I don't want my tax dollars supporting Rush.

[RaleighNCDUer]

109. The military has no obligation to air lies and hate speech. In fact,

quite the opposite. Civilian radio may have the option lying but what has governmental imprimatur is expected to be TRUTH.

Limbaugh is a proved liar, a drug addict and a rabble rouser. The government and the military have no business promoting him.

This is not a 'free speech' issue - anyone who has ever been in the military will tell you that free speech is very different in the service than outside it. Limbaugh is perfectly free to spew his garbage in the civilian world.

[Enthusiast]

174. Any demand for Limbaugh is misguided

Not only that but soldiers in the field of conflict do not decide to listen to seditious speech. There is no 1st amendment rights for deployed military personnel.

[The River]

54. Exactly Right

Let OxyRush go stand on a soap box in the town square.
He is free to exercise free speech there.
He has no "right" to be broadcast, it's up to the station owners / managers
who they put on air.

[JPettus]

145. I think you aren't understanding

This is not a Limbaugh defending decision. This is a free-speech decision. If we really value liberty, we need to allow the viewpoints we hate as well as the ones we agree with.

Now, I will also say that I agree with a return to the Fairness Doctrine, and I think that if Limbaugh is passing opinion as fact, there should be a way to call him on that, but only if we are willing to put the same standards on liberal speech.

If Rush doesn't want to abide by that, he could always go into a more "entertainment" direction, putting on skits that tilt to his own ideological viewpoint but which no one really can mistake as factual information.

[certainot]

149. you're right there's no place for that proven liar,

propagandist, and chickenhawk cheerleader on AFR.

[cliffordu]

160. Quit beating around the bush, Vinny. Just let it all out........

:rofl:

[Skittles]

243. Vinny From Indy, I am an instant fan of yours

I LIKE YO' STYLE - yes INDEED :thumbsup:

[jwirr]

14. If they leave him on then it is time to make sure that there is someone

on our side telling it like it is. Malloy? Rachel? KO?

[NeedleCast]

39. Yes Yes and Yes

Any of the above. All of the above.

[4 t 4]

74. Yea but..

but these are not normal times If Obama fails we all fail if we fail from here where are we-really ? People are losing their lives everyday due to our financial condition. These aren't normal times there are Tent Cites all over the place with women children and pets. These condition are so extreme. Just saying.

[Faygo Kid]

111. Hear, hear. He has no "right" to be on there. He has gone too far.

Throw his sorry ass off the network. It's ridiculous that he is still on it.

Let him make more millions by spewing his garbage on commercial radio.

[Left Coast2020]

139. YES WE CAN! YES WE CAN!

:fistbump:

[Enthusiast]

172. And we put our side at a

tremendous disadvantage by allowing them this courtesy. And that is what it amounts to. This entire country's AM radio is a constant barrage of anti-Obama rhetoric. I say throw the pig man asshole off the AFR!

[Vinnie From Indy]

6. I am never failed to be amused by folks that use this idiotic straw man rebuttal

Please explain how Rush's right to free speech is damaged in any way by removing him from the programming lineup of Armed Forces Radio? Is it not true that the fat drug addict will still have his Clear Channel sewer to swim in and his 400 million dollar contract to provide unadulterated lies and propaganda to his idiot listeners on 400 stations from coast to coast?

Is that the best you got?

[JaneQPublic]

13. Right. What about the free-speech rights of all those not now on AFR?

Rush has had more than his fair turn. Now give someone else a try... preferably someone who doesn't wish for the failure of the CINC and by extension the failure/injury/death of American troops.

[NeedleCast]

36. Is that the best of I've got?

Yes, the constitution is the best I've got.

Again, if there were no demand for Rush on AFR, he wouldn't be on AFR. I don't have a problem with people lobbying to have him taken off AFR, but AFR has just as much right as Clear Channel or anyone else who has broadcasting rights to his stupidity to put him on the air.

[treestar]

41. Again the First Amendment does not require the government to

broadcast anything in particular - and you are overlooking that the military is under Obama's command.

[NeedleCast]

59. While the military is under Obama's command

I'd be willing to bet that the day to day programming of AFR is pretty low on his give a shit list.

[4 t 4]

85. Exactly

AFR is controlled by DOD. The DOD reports directly to the President

[treestar]

99. Thus the DOD can change the programming.

Post upthread shows troops want music anyway.

And the Pentagon shouldn't tolerate Rush now that he's said a thing like that.

[GA_ArmyVet]

236. OK this debate is in 2 threads

and I have responded in the other as well

First off, if you are not in the military, you just don't have a dog in this fight.

I don't want you or anyone else using AFRTS as a political tool. The bottom line is we get programming donated and we get a wide spectrum of shows to represent what is being broadcast in the states both TV and radio.

If you as a liberal want to take something off the air because you don't like it, then the Right will want something gone because they don't like it, meaning that in the end, anything controversial and debated will never air.

All of us in the military are adults, free to make our own decisions about what we listen to. We are smart, much smarter than many give us credit for. We push education, with free college, professional schools and so forth, so the last thing, we need is you or anyone else trying to limit what we can listen to or watch in order to protect us.

Next, this is all about Free Speech. Freedom of Speech was intended to ensure that the people can be critical of the their government and its decisions. There is no better demonstration of Free Speech, than to allow a Government owned and operated station to broadcast programs that are critical of it.

Lastly, I suspect that the real reason you want the program removed is far less noble than to protect me. I suspect it is because you don't agree with the show (actually not much of a leap, it is DU after all), which I understand, but we don't need you to limit our access to anything. I spent my whole life serving this country and trying to defend the Constitution, so thank you for your concern but we don't wont your help by taking away our rights.

If you want to protect the troops, I suggest you use your time to prevent the wars and the poor decisions which get us into those wars.

[Vinnie From Indy]

52. Uh-uh!

You are mistaken if you think that AFN is like a private broadcaster. They are not. AFN is in the military chain of command.

[shagsak]

195. The military doesnt follow the constitution

They make their own rules, march to the beat of their own drum. I heard they even have their own time.

They can do what they want, when they want, to whoever they want, however they want. As long as it follows the army field manual.

:sarcasm:

[rhett o rick]

228. You are so out of line. Employers always have the right to hire and fire. Has nothing to do with

their Constitutional rights. If Faux News doesn't want Bill o Really, they can fire him. If the owners of AFR don't want Rush, we can fire his ass. Has nothing to do with his rights. The Constitution doesn't say he has a right to work for any specific company.

[onenote]

70. the rights of those who want to hear him are harmed if he's taken off because of what he says

For the fans of the Fairness Doctrine, I remind you what the SCOTUS said in the Red Lion decision: "It is the right of the viewers and listeners, not the right of the broadcasters, which is paramount."

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

125. The Fairness Doctrine (such as it exists) doesn't apply to the military

Nor does the First Amendment and several other rights we enjoy as civilians. I was also in the military, as have many other who have joined this discussion. To be frank, we seldom spoke about political stuff, and when we did, it was about issues and seldom about personalities. Clinton was an exception, but it was about his personal peccadillos and not his role as CIC. Occasionally at random times a conservative would blurt out something like, "Goddam liberal media" or "I guess that's not PC," but I attributed these blurts to a case of political Tourette's syndrome. (My sister-in-law suffers from the same affliction; we just ignore her and after a minute or so she's back to normal.)

Rush has no "right" to have a show on AFR anymore than Olberman or Maddow or the Jonas Brothers or anyone else, no matter how "popular" they are (and how, exactly, is that determined?). AFR doesn't have to be apolitical in its programming, but it must always function within its official capacity. The point that's being made here is that Rush's show is built on lies and hatred and racism, and as such do not reflect the goals of the Obama administration, nor does it project a desirable image of America to the rest of the world. There are conservatives who can present that point of view in an entertaining and informative way without the venom which spews from Rush's mouth. Bill O'Reilly is opinionated and (in my opinion) misinformed about nearly every subject, but he argues his point of view with enthusiasm and not hatred.

I agree. It's time for the taxpayers to stop paying Rush.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

10. Or a well placed Repub operative

[bullwinkle428]

24. Well, he's on AFR because the Bush administration determined

who would appear on AFR...this is not a "market forces" thing.

[ShadesOfGrey]

105. Yep, that's right.

Now that Obama is CIC, I'm sure the current administration won't put up with that Fat Ass inciting hate anymore.

[Venceremos]

161. Limbaugh has been on AFR since 1994

Link: http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/05/26/rush_limbaugh/print.html
It's the seventh paragraph from the bottom. AFR started airing the first hour of his show in early 1994, 7 years before Bush took office.

[treestar]

38. But not everything has to go on Armed Forces Radio

Obviously there is a limit there - so we can demand they not put it there. We can demand Rush's employer refuse to air him. Rush has free speech on any street corner - no one is forced to publish it widely though, that's a choice the networks make.

It's legitimate to rethink it in terms of Armed Forces Radio - these are people for whom the President is their Commander in Chief.

[PVnRT]

44. AFR is government-funded, and there is no counter-balance to Rush's nonsense

That is the real issue here - the government is, in effect, promoting Rush's point of view without offering equal air time.

[rhett o rick]

157. How do you figure? "If he's on AFR, that means there's more than likely a demand for it. "

Not if there is politics involved. Kicking him off has nothing to do with interrupting his free speech. He can speak all he wants. It is just, I as a taxpayer, am not going to pay for his vitriolic spewing. You want to put a honest conservative on, fine. Limpballs is a treasonous bastard.

[Trajan]

163. The wrong questions and answers ....

Limbaugh is guaranteed free speech ... He is NOT guaranteed a slot on AFR ...

Not all speech is free .... seditious speech is specifically proscribed by law ...

Im not saying he DEFINITELY violated the law, but it's close enough for me ....

Can that rat bastard ....

[Enthusiast]

170. Free speech does not extend

to seditious speech in a theater of war. His entire dialogue is a verbal attack on the character and effectiveness of the CIC. This must be stopped immediately.

[AlbertCat]

200. Free speech only applies to people we agree with?

Free Speech is not a guarantee in the MILITARY. The military is not a democracy. You can't just say what you want about your commanding officer, y'know.

Let'em play Limbaugh though....and Rachel Maddow right afterward. The current choices are obviously skewed to amplify far right thinking.

[tularetom]

7. It's unpatriotic to criticize the commander in chief in time of war

Why does fatass druggie pedophile limpballs hate America?

[Cid_B]

8. Free speech for everyone...

... not just those who happen to agree with you. We are grown up enough to hear all sides of an issue thank you very much without someone deciding what is too much for our little soldier brains to comprehend.

[Vinnie From Indy]

16. Wow!

I find strange, but typical, of OxyRush's defenders that they only have this idiotic straw man argument of free speech to use regarding this issue. Rabid, screeching monkey's will fly out of Rush's butt the day any of you Limbuagh defender's could ever successfully argue that removing that talking anal cyst from Armed Services Radio curtails his free spech one iota. It simply isn't true and the argument is a classic straw man.

[Cid_B]

19. Ok Chuckles....

By your logic Olbermann should not have been on my AFN for the last few years then either right? New guy in charge and all of a sudden its not ok to say anything negative. Got it.

Free speech for everyone! ( as long as they agree with whoever is in power at the moment ) :eyes:

[Vinnie From Indy]

32. I'll be your huckleberry

Using your logic, how about we give ol' David Duke or Hal Turner a show on AFN? What about their rights to be heard?

The simple fact, that most rational folks can easily understand, is that Limbaugh has no right to be on AFN permanently. He has been on the network for far too long and longer than most current opinion shows. His time is done. He is not being silenced in any way shape or form. HE is merely being told to go shit elsewhere.

I would also offer that old GOP mantra that elections have consequences. For guys like drug addicted, draft dodging Rush Limbuagh, it means adios douchebag.

In the end, your position is that there are no standards or levels of responsibility that should be brought bear on decisions concerning the programming on AFN. How goofy is that?

[NeedleCast]

37. Limbaugh has no right to be on AFN permanently

Why not?

[frylock]

50. Limbaugh has a right to be on AFN permanently

why?

[LanternWaste]

66. I'm not aware of any person or personality...

I'm not aware of *any* person or personality that has the right to be broadcast by AFN on a permanent basis. However, I'm more than open to entertaining conjecture as to where and specifically how that right is specifically spelled out...

Granted, I'm certainly not as clever as you are-- hence my need for things like this to be explained to me.

[Enthusiast]

178. Because he lies about the

ability and character of the CIC. We don't need a Tokyo Rose.

[Cid_B]

49. "I would also offer that old GOP mantra that elections have consequences."

All I can say is that I can only imagine the screaming bloody murder that would come out of this place if we followed your logic and soldiers were denied information or entertainment based on the whims of whichever political party is in power at the moment.

There is obviously a significant portion of the military population that wants to listen, even if they agree or not. He doesn't have a damn stranglehold on anyone. If he wasn't a source of listeners then he wouldn't be on the air.

You wan't to censor my internet as well? You know there are bad things about Obama on there too. Does it extend to anything negative about Democrats? How bout ideas that aren't progressive? Me and mine will decide what we want to hear and thanks but no thanks for you "enlightened" view.

[Enthusiast]

179. "You wan't to censor my internet as well? "

Apples and oranges. And take you wing nut shit elsewhere.

[Politicalboi]

103. Maybe they can boot

Him for his "past" LOL! drug use. New sheriff, new laws. Here Rush piss in this cup NOW!

[Politicalboi]

102. LOL!

Let Rush go into Iraq and get a podium and he can spew it live to those who want to listen.

[eShirl]

17. Great. When do I get MY own show on AFR?

If not, it's violating my right to free speech!

:crazy:

[onenote]

71. when there is demand for it.

Is there?

[slackmaster]

90. I think you have to demonstrate that you have some talent before anyone will consider you

Good luck!

[RaleighNCDUer]

114. Well that's ANOTHER reason to take Limbaugh off AFN, then. nt

[AlbertCat]

204. I think you have to demonstrate that you have some talent

Like the Oh so talented Rush! He's so talented! Imagine what he could do if he wasn't loopy on codeine!

[EFerrari]

40. If anyone talked about the torture president this way, they'd be off the air immediately.

[PVnRT]

46. Except they AREN'T hearing all views

That is the problem, which seems to escape most of the Super Constitution Warriors on this thread. The government is using your tax dollars to promote Rush's point of view to the exclusion of anyone else. Care to tell me where in the Constitution it says that's OK?

[NeedleCast]

58. Now This I agree with

and think people should be lobbying to get left-wing personalities on AFR. That is a good thing. Silencing voices of dissent is not.

[RaleighNCDUer]

117. LIES AND RABBLE ROUSING IS NOT DISSENT.

It is one thing to offer a different point of view, and quite another to spew lies and hatred.

Find a RW radio host who can put up a show that does NOT spew lies, that does NOT promote hatred and violence against minorities, women, gays, immigrants and put HIM on the air.

There is such a thing as objective truth, and Limbaugh abuses it every day. He is not dissent - he is lying propaganda, and the military has no reason to promote his garbage.

[NeedleCast]

122. Well that's just the thing

The wing nut right wingers think that the left shows are all full of lies, etc, etc.

Luckily we have you, the great arbiter of truth and what is and is not dissent to set us straight.

If someone thinks Limbaugh is lying about them or dispersing false propaganda they have every right to file suit over it. How, exactly is the military "promoting" his garbage? Simply by airing it? If that's the measuring stick for what promoting something is, then any media outlet that airs anything is, by default, promoting it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

124. AFN is military. It is NOT a media outlet.

It has a military mission. The crap limbaugh spews is contrary to cohesiveness and unity of the military - it is racist, sexist, anti-American propaganda.

WHY would the military want to promote that?

And FYI, when his garbage is the ONLY english language programming available, that would be 'promoting' it - people can't just change channels.

But I think you really do know all that, and you are just being a dick for shits and grins.

[YOY]

123. If he's the sensible right my name is Margaret.

Seriously he's an asshole who makes multi millions to tell idiots their opinion.

Some shit goes straight beyond right and left and into you're-a-fucking-idiotland.

[rhett o rick]

229. How does this in any way relate to free speach?? The news media can hire and fire whom ever they

like. NBC doesn't have to employ anyone that wants their "free speach" rights. If AFR want to fire Russ, the Constitution doesn't have anything to say about it. He is still free to speak.

[K8-EEE]

9. I say leave him on BUT

Also give them alternative shows that point out his lies.

[Dennis Donovan]

12. Are Ed Schultz or Thom Hartmann offered on AFR?

If not, that would be a fair trade-off IMO.

[MineralMan]

26. From the AFRTS FAQ

Q: Why does AFN air political-talk radio programs?

A: AFN has an obligation, backed by Congressional mandate, to provide our audience access to the same variety and diversity of programming that they would enjoy if they were back in the States.

Because political talk radio is among the most popular stateside radio formats, AFN currently offers four political radio talk shows on our AFN radio schedule: Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity represent the conservative viewpoint and Ed Schultz and Alan Colmes represent the liberal viewpoint.

[Dennis Donovan]

27. A rebroadcast of Rachel Maddow should be included - she's always addressing Vet's issues...

[MineralMan]

34. Good idea...

I didn't look, but there must be a place on the side I linked to in the first post about the FAQ to contact AFRTS.

[MineralMan]

18. Well, that's a position a lot of people take,

but it seems to put the members of our military into a class different from the rest of the population. Rush spews his noxious bile on the public airwaves to an audience that gets to decide whether or not they agree with his spew.

AFRTS also broadcasts opinion from the other side of the spectrum, and you can be sure that those programs will call Limpaw out.

Our military is not made up of children, but of adults. I'll give them credit for being able to sort out bile and crap from the rest. If they were here in the US, they could choose to tune in the fat, stupid man or something else. Overseas, they often do not have that choice, so AFRTS tries to present multiple viewpoints.

My point here is that our military is made up of people who will make up their own minds. The more Rush Limpaw bloviates, the clearer it will be that he is an idiot.

[Enthusiast]

180. I disagree

Limbaugh is very effective at coercion and propaganda. And his brand of lie is especially potent with certain "types" that are not accustomed to thinking for themselves.

[AlbertCat]

205. the members of our military into a class different from the rest of the population.

THEY ARE!!!!!

Or do you wear a uniform and follow orders from your superiors without question every day....after going thru a basic training course?

The Military is not a social club.

They are military....you and the rest of the population are civilians. Or do you see no difference?

Jesus!

[Clear Blue Sky]

20. I think he is only on for one hour per day.

Who or what is on the rest of the time?

Aside from free speech issues, the soldiers should have a choice and listen to whoever they want.

[The Magistrate]

21. Quite True, Sir

The man is as a matter of fact a seditionist, and it is a bit much to expect a government to broadcast seditionist speech to members of its armed forces....

[newtothegame]

78. True Sir. Good point Sir. Thanks for posting this Sir.

[shintao]

25. He is a traitor & hates America

The man with a pimple on butt is no more an American than VN War Deserter Bush, and like Bush shows his distaste for this great great nation. GITMO is open for a year. I suggest they send his sorry arse there a pimple popping by Muslim camel drivers.

[Hubert Flottz]

28. K&R

Rush should stand trial with Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Gonzo, Rice, and anyone else who was behind the war crimes and torture.

[PensiveGadfly]

30. I agree with Rush . . . in a sense

Rush Limbaugh has gained desired notoriety of late by stating that he hopes Barack Obama fails. I think I understand where he is coming from because I felt the same way eight years ago. And as the next four years went by, I felt that way more and more strongly.

Although I am a Texan, and a lawyer, I was appalled that George W. Bush was handed the Presidency by a Supreme Court containing several Reagan and George H. W. Bush appointees. Thinking about who and what “W” represented, I concluded that I wanted him to fail. The reasons were many, and I encourage anyone to add to them:

Bush became President not because he was accomplished, or talented, or hard working; he became President because he was a son of wealth and privilege: so yes, I wanted the promotion of privilege over merit to fail.

Bush flouted his Christianity, and millions upon millions of Americans were blinded to his contradictions, foibles, and weaknesses because of his profession of faith: so yes, I wanted the elevation of blind faith over thoughtful citizenship to fail.

Bush joked about the fact that his “base” were the wealthy and the politically powerful: I wanted a person who saw government as a tool for the wealthy and privileged, rather than the common American, to fail.

By the same token, Bush was a champion of large, powerful corporations, believing that government regulation was an evil to be avoided: so yes, I wanted government of the people, by the corporations and for the corporations to fail.

Bush’s foreign policy was based upon arrogance and the use of force uncoupled with real diplomacy or concern for the opinions and friendship of other leaders and nations: so yes, I wanted arrogant short-sighted foreign policy to fail.

Bush never seemed to have respect for the scientific method, and saw science as a tool to be subverted to ideology: so yes, I wanted a man who would misrepresent scientific truth, rather than employ science to seek truth, to fail.

I could go on and on . . .

But here is where Rush and I disagree, the flip side. Because, for example, Obama represents merit (intelligence, accomplishments, and hard-work, particularly from humble beginnings), Rush must want the triumph of merit over privilege to fail.

Because Obama represents the elevation of science as a tool in the search for the right policy, over science as authority to be manipulated and misrepresented in support of policy already chosen, Rush wants good science to fail.

Because Obama believes in diplomacy and international cooperation rather than arrogant unilateralism, Rush wants the efforts of this administration to make friends internationally, and restore America’s good name throughout the world, to fail.

And again, I could go on and on ...

[RaleighNCDUer]

120. The difference is, Limbaugh hopes Obama will fail, while we hoped

despite all evidence to the contrary that Bush would rise above himself and succeed for the first time in his life.

Of course, he didn't.

When Bush had 90% approval right after 9/11 it wasn't because we all suddenly turned conservative. It was because we hoped he would successfully deal with a terrible crisis. NOBODY was saying 'I hope Bush fucks up catastrophically' in the wake of 9/11. We were saying 'I hope he DOESN'T fuck up catastrophically'.

Of course, he did.

The problem is, when the president fails the nation fails.

Limbaugh wants the nation to fail.

For that alone he deserves to be removed from AFR.

[texastoast]

144. I do believe Rush would sacrifice us all

In sick retribution for the Republicans losing this one. They had planned for so long to bring us to a totalitarian, industrialist-run nation, and had a large measure of success in making inroads toward that goal. Their own plans were flawed in not looking at the long-term picture and naturally the house of cards crumbled.

They are angry, licking their wounds, and I don't know the extent to which they will go to attempt to regain power and privilege for the few on the backs of the many. Watching this kind of rage should put us all on notice that they truly are mentally ill.

[Balbus]

192. "we hoped...that Bush would rise above himself and succeed..."

That is such a bullshit statement. I can't believe you have the gall to try to pass that turd. Every one of us - EVERYONE - on this board was hoping and very glad when Bush kept failing. Everytime a new troop death total came in we cheered. We were salivating over the torture photos. Whenever some foreign dignitary made an insulting remark towards Bush, or even this country, we rah-rah-rahed until our panties fell down to around our ankles.

If you're going to lie, at least don't be lying to yourself.

[texastoast]

197. I for one did not

After 9/11, I really liked what he said about going after the terrorists and knew that 9/11 had awakened the sleeping giant of the United States. I still believe leadership and major planning for the cells was in Afghanistan.

I wanted the U.S. to succeed in routing them and still do. However, once Bush showed his true intentions ("Hey, Base, we can make some serious bucks off this and get that rat bastard who threatened assassination of my dear daddy), I did a 180, realizing that the very fabric of America was at stake.

Salivation? No. Determination that I wouldn't let my country go down without a fight? Yes. Relentlessly raising awareness of the terror of the Bush administration to the Bushbots and asking them hard questions? Yes.

Cheering at our soldiers deaths? Fuck off.

[TheCML]

237. Are you insane?

I didnt want Bush to fail, I thought he might, but I hoped he didnt. Im sorry that I dont support human death or torture to prove my points. This is not a football game, I dont cheer for sides, and I am deeply sorrowful when the troop or civilian death toll goes up. Bush failing means I lost my job. Why are you a liberal if you cheer when someone dies, just because it proves your point? You are a sick human being.

[Regret My New Name]

242. wtf?

Speak for yourself.

[AlbertCat]

210. Limbaugh wants the nation to fail.

Limbaugh just wants his paycheck so he can buy some more illegal cigars and pain pills.

I don't believe he even knows what he's talking about 1/2 the time (the other 1/2 he's talking about himself)He breezes into the studio in the AM, someone from his research team hands him a list of topics and then he just riffs on it all....saying just what he thinks his audience wants to hear (I'm sure the soldiers loved hearing they were "fake soldiers" if they had doubts about their mission in Iraq...whatever that is) He's just improvising on GOP talking points and sometimes he just happens upon some controversial gem that gets everyone talking about Rush's favorite subject....Rush.

That is his show...period.

Remember his TV show? The 1st installment had a live audience....who booed and cat called him. The 2nd installment had a hand picked audience of supporters and so it went until its cancellation shortly thereafter.

Rush is all fake. He only says what he thinks his target audience wants to hear.

[Enthusiast]

182. Interesting take. nt

[Hubert Flottz]

187. Great post...

Welcome to DU.

I understand how you felt. It's been hard to watch the country fall apart under Bush's watch, but I pretty well knew from day one, that it had to happen. It wasn't what I wished for, but it was what I expected. The 5 to 4 SCOTUS decision is to blame for nullifying the will of the people on 12/12/2000.

No crime that Bush and Cheney and their cronies, collaborators, enablers, accomplices and benefactors have committed would have ever been possible, had it not been for these five selfish, greedy, political hacks: Kennedy, O'Connor, Rehnquist, Scalia and Thomas.

Rush is as guilty of war crimes as Bush and Cheney, IMHO.

[rhett o rick]

230. Russ wants Obama to fail, he wants the country to fail. He got his so f*** the rest of the country.

fire his ass

[shintao]

33. FILE A COMPLAINT HERE!!! Protest the Injustice!!

This is the closest I can get to AFR's contact. It says you can post a message at this email & then they decide if they want to post it.


I suggest you have Rush quotes handy from the show where he talks down the CIC. Leave them here, so we can join in sending this guy email complaints, and maybe pass this along to other websites as well. The Squeaky Wheel gets the grease folks!

Web [e-mail]

[certainot]

152. "obama's head needs to roll" said limbaugh sept 10.

and as far as complaining, try the local radio stations that put him on. call them and limbaugh's local sponsors. some have no idea what a big part this liar played in getting us into this disaster or what a racist he is and how many people in their community would hate the guy if they had to listen to him.

[Fireweed247]

42. yup

There is no excuse for forcing the military to listen to him. He has no credibility and clearly takes way too many drugs before he goes on the air.

Have you ever heard the strange noises during his show? I think they are using some form of mind control on the backwash because he should have been discredited and ignored by now.

[Leftist Agitator]

62. Hey, how did you change your username?!

:shrug:

[Fireweed247]

67. here ya go

USERNAME CHANGE AMNESTY
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=announcement&id=301

[gkhouston]

47. Why deny the troops the entertainment? They probably laugh their asses off at his

pathetic bullshit.

[Enthusiast]

183. Many believe his every word. nt

[Junkdrawer]

55. Bob Dornan forced Limbaugh onto AFR 14+ years ago...

And for 11 years he had a monopoly.

From a 2005 Salon piece:

...

Eleven years ago it was Republican members of Congress whose pressure put Limbaugh on American Forces Radio in the first place. In 1993, then Rep. Robert Dornan, R-Calif., along with 69 other Republican House members, sent a letter to President Clinton's first secretary of defense, Les Aspin, demanding that both Limbaugh's radio show and his syndicated television show (on which Limbaugh compared preteen Chelsea Clinton to a dog) be broadcast to the military. "Limbaugh has been called by his liberal critics 'the most dangerous man in America.' It appears the liberal leadership at the Pentagon agrees with that ridiculous assertion," Dornan wrote. "The bottom line is that the troops want Rush Limbaugh, and you should see to it that they at least have that opportunity."

The Pentagon responded by pointing to an internal survey of 50,000 military listeners that found that only 4 percent requested more long-format talk radio. Most respondents overwhelmingly requested continuous music. The Pentagon also said that Limbaugh's daily three-hour radio program would monopolize too much of the network's limited airtime.

Notably, on Nov. 29, 1993, American Forces Radio and Television Services issued this statement: "The Rush Limbaugh Show makes no pretense that his show is balanced. If AFRTS scheduled a program of personal commentary without balancing it with another viewpoint, we would be open to broad criticism that we are supporting a particular point of view."

Yet just three days later, as the controversy was stoked in conservative media and Republicans cried censorship, Aspin called Limbaugh to assure him that the Pentagon would find a way to get his program on the then-named Armed Forces Radio.

"That's the difference between Democrats and Republicans," says Franken, noting that Democrats are much more likely to give in to mau-mauing from the right.

...

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/05/26/rush_limbaugh/print.html

[shintao]

65. The bottom line is, kick his butt off the air waves

I disagree with this article having served in Vietnam and listened to AFVN. At the time speech and some songs were strickly forbidden. The only way you could listen to hard rock was by the bullshit ban, using a prick field radio at each base camp on an known off frequency channel. Some base buddy would play the records and transmit them to us in the field. The base commanders had teams going out to locate these bullshit bans through triangulation of cat & mouse games, so several base buddys helped tip off the prick DJ they were closing in. This was a popular way of getting our music, and each base camp had their own radio station going.

The alternative was Hanoi Hanna who broadcast the hard rock & fed propaganda to abandon the war on her commercials.

No one was allowed to preach political BS like Rush is doing in undermining our CIC and nation.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BadGimp]

64. Seems reasonable to me

no more or less political a change than putting him on Armed Forces Radio

[Mira]

68. Kicked! I want him to rot in hell-I really do.

[HopeHoops]

69. Where do I sign the petition?

On edit:
Screw a petition - go to WhiteHouse.gov and send them a message - I just did. The "Subject" choices are somewhat lean at the present. "Other" seems to be the best choice.

[Pacifist Patriot]

72. I advocate for an annotated version of his show.

By all means air the idiot on Armed Forces Radio interspersed with commentary that shows him for the drug addicted sycophantic idiot that he is.

[kristopher]

73. Limbaugh has more dominance on AFN than in US

There is no alternative to his programming while it is on. It isn't as if you can just flip the dial and listen to something else. If you want English language programming, you're stuck with what AFN provides. IT was a dramatic degradation of service when they started including his insane ranting, IMO. It was also an overtly political act by republicans. I'd have no problem with removing all political programming of that sort, and have strictly news and entertainment - no limpballs isn't entertainment, he's propaganda.

[Hekate]

75. HOW? What can we do to make this happen? This scumbag has got to go.nt

[Junkdrawer]

84. Congressional pressure got him ON...Congressional pressure can get him OFF...

See my post #55 upthread and this from Wes Clark in 2007:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gen-wesley-clark/take-rush-limbaugh-off-ar_b_66826.html

[BumRushDaShow]

77. That hypocritical un-American windbag

needs to go.

[azureblue]

80. rush is advocating mutiny

by disrespecting Obama the CIC. this is something you do not do in the armed forces. When Bush was CIC the soldiers kept their opinions to themselves and obeyed orders no matter how stupid they were because this is the chain of command, and the chain begins with the President. In the services, disrespecting a senior officer will get you a court martial and hard time. What Rush is doing would not be tolerated if he were a soldier. He would be yanked out of that chair and pitched in the brig in a second, if he said that as a soldier. Rush is promoting dissent among the ranks, and should be pulled from AFR. This is not a freedom of speech issue- this is a clear case of sedition.

[onenote]

83. Not even a little.

Rush is fat toad of a windbag, but I'm sorry,he's not advocating mutiny and he's not guilty of sedition. He's guilty of spewing stupid opinions with which you and I and millions of others disagree, but with which others do agree, or at least are interested in hearing. And that's what the FIrst Amendment is about.

My goodness, if criticizing Obama and hoping for his policies to fail is advocating "mutiny" then I, and thousands of others of DUers apparently were guilty of the same crimes during the past eight years when we took to the streets to criticize chimpy and evil war, or protested near military facilities, to say nothing of what I must have been guilty of during the Vietnam War....

[mckara]

81. Pull Limbaugh and Faux Noise from Televisions!

n/t

[rcsl1998]

82. Everyone Should Demand To Know Why Rush Wants The Troops To Fail

Just applying the logic of Rush & his ilk from 1/20/01 thru 12 noon on 1/20/09...

[liberal N proud]

86. Who do we petition to?

We need a petition to get this ass removed from the airwaves that we pay for.

[Junkdrawer]

89. In 2007, Wes Clark championed this issue, perhaps he could be persuaded...

to pick it up again...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gen-wesley-clark/take-rush-limbaugh-off-ar_b_66826.html

[B Calm]

87. Happy to recommend this thread!

[Pryderi]

91. When he wants our Commander In Chief to fail, he wants our military to fail.

[Dukkha]

92. He is the Tokyo Rose of AFR

he wants the Commander-In-Chief to fail = he wants the military to fail.

He is deliberately demoralizing the troops by slandering their leader whom they all sworn to follow.

[anachro1]

93. Really; why bother?

It is simply a matter of time that Rush is caught trying to sneak a cache of Oxycontin shoved up his greedy, Republican buttcheeks?

Watch his downfall - celebrate.

[spanone]

94. i agree 100%

[Zech Marquis The 2nd]

95. I hope they pull fat bastard off the air totally!

Not just AFRTS, but ANYWHERE !! :argh: Perhaps a nice empty cell at Gitmo would be more suitable for old Limpballs...

[Sequoia]

96. Sounds like a threat to me.

The hateful right wing days of B & C are over. No Countnry for Mean Old Men.

[ThisThreadIsSatire]

98. Even assholes are entitled to freedom of speech, however

you make a good point that Armed Forces Radio shouldn't have anyone saying things on the air that a member of the military could face charges for. It's time for Rush's discharge.

[RedCloud]

101. Where is Obama's honeymoon?

Shouldn't a so called family value person be concerned that they are not giving the President any honeymoon time at all?

[Myrina]

104. Check THIS out, and protest loudly please:

http://greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090122/GPG0101/901220520/1207/GPG01

Limbaugh teaching civics in Green Bay? Stay tuned

Rush Limbaugh is offering to teach a civics lesson to a Green Bay middle school after a teacher complained about his radio show's presentation of Tuesday's presidential inauguration broadcast throughout the school that included the conservative commentator's opinions.


The on-air offer came after an Edison Middle School teacher sent an e-mail to WTAQ (1360 AM) about the station's coverage of President Barack Obama's inauguration. The e-mail criticized the inclusion of Limbaugh's comments during Obama's speech.



I wouldn't let that vile lying fucker anywhere near my children if I were a parent in that area!! :mad:

[Az_lefty]

106. He's a divisive racists and shouldn't have been on there in the 1st place

[girl_interrupted]

108. K&R

[Radical Activist]

112. No. Wait another month or so.

That will be long enough for more troops to see what a racist, America-hating asshole he is and start demanding he be taken off air.

[Life Long Dem]

115. Obama needs to be made aware of this.

This goes against keeping the country safe.

[LaydeeBug]

116. At least gives us equal time. Maybe steph miller.

[hangman86]

As much as I hate to say it

forcing him off the airwaves is not the answer. How would we better than those who wanted to shut down every opposing voice to George W. in the name of "troop morale?" Let's leave free speech alone and let Obama do the ass-kicking by actually making things better, and forcing the fat bastard to rely on even more tenuous, dogmatic, wing-nut arguments than he had to today (freedom of information bad!? :wtf:). Besides, the Conservative base is broken right now and hardly the threat it used to be. That, coupled with our new power in Congress, makes this dick pretty irrelevant right now. I have a feeling Limbaugh is going to be on the decline for the next 4 (and hopefully 8) years.

[1776Forever]

119. My post in another thread on this..In 2007 Gen. Wes Clark tried to do just that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4890531&mesg_id=4891114

[spanone]

121. KICKNR

[Balbus]

126. I prefer freedom of speech, thank you very much.

Just because you don't agree with someone is not a reason to have them silenced.

[Lost-in-FL]

132. Limballs wants the Armed Forces Commander-in-chief to fail.

This issue isn't about freedom of speech here since soldiers do NOT have freedom of speech. Any soldier can be punished for speaking against their commander in chief and Limballs is promoting treason and dissent in the military. As a prior servicemember, looking now from the outside, Limpballs is dangerous to the military. You do not want division in the armed forces, but cohesion. THe armed forces SHOULD NEVER be politicized.

[DainBramaged]

156. Really, we were silenced for 8 years, why not shut Limpballs up

and put Ed Schultz on instead? You really think Limpballs is free speech? He is the epitome of yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater, he believes it's OK to be addicted to prescription drugs and fart his way through 3 marriages. He believes African-Americans are inferior to him and all of his woman-hating ilk.

[Cid_B]

215. The 'epitome' of yelling fire in a croweded theatre...

... is yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre.

[Balbus]

232. You got a mouse in your pocket?

Who is this "we" you're talking about?

If you want to promote taking the pig off the air, knock yourself out - I wish you luck. But it's all this faux concern for the military folks that's being diplayed to further this agenda that I find repulsive.

[hughee99]

234. Ed Schultz is already on, see post 26. n/t

[JDPriestly]

130. The troops should get to choose which liberal talk shows they want to hear

and the liberal and conservative shows should be broadcast so that they get a liberal program one day and on the next day a conservative one.

[Lost-in-FL]

134. They should choose neither.

We do not want to create an atmosphere where leaders in the future use the soldiers as political tools.

We do not want a government sponsored religion either in our military, like is already happening.

[jonmiller74]

131. Agreed

[acmavm]

133. I wish it were that simple. I wish the man would just go away. But we

CANNOT censor him. Not and maintain any credibility.

[annabanana]

135. BIG k&r . . . . . . . n/t

[Lost-in-FL]

136. Soldiers are NOT to support any "partisan" political activities, candidates or issues.

The rules governing political activity by service members are significantly restrictive.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/134410p.pdf

Soldiers may:

1. Register, vote, and express personal opinions on political candidates and issues, but not as representatives of the Army (note, however, that Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) prohibits the use of contemptuous words against officials, including the president, vice president, secretary of defense, members of Congress, and the governor or legislature of any state).

2. Join a political club or party and attend meetings when not in uniform.

3. Serve in local part-time nonpartisan civil offices if such service does not interfere with the performance of military duties and prior approval is given by the installation commander.

4. Serve as an election official if such service is not as a representative of a partisan political party, is approved by the installation commander, and is performed out of uniform.

5. Sign a petition for specific legislative action or to place a candidate's name on a petition, if it is signed as a private citizen and does not obligate the soldier to engage in partisan political activity.

6. Write a letter to the editor of a newspaper expressing personal views on public issues, if those views do not attempt to promote a partisan candidate or cause.

7. Write a personal letter that is not for publication expressing a preference for a partisan political candidate or cause, but such letters may not be part of an organized letter-writing campaign.

8. Contribute money to a political party or political committee favoring a particular candidate or a group of candidates.

9. Display a political decal on the bumper on his or her automobile (decals containing obscenities, vulgar language, or advocating acts of violence, or in support of extremist groups may not be permitted on a military installation).

Soldiers May Not:

1. Use official authority or position to interfere with an election, affect the course of an election, solicit votes for a candidate or issue, or require or
solicit political contributions from others. <<------------------------------

2. Be partisan political candidates for civil office at the federal, state, or local level. Soldiers also may not engage in public or organized solicitations of others to become partisan political candidates.

3. Take part in the partisan political management of campaigns or make public speeches in support of partisan political campaigns. <<<<--------------------------

4. Make a campaign contribution to another member of the armed forces or to a civilian officer or employee of the United States to promote a political objective or cause.

5. Solicit or receive any campaign contributions to promote a political objective or cause.

6. Publish partisan political articles signed or authorized by the soldier to solicit votes for or against a partisan political party or candidate. <<< ---------------

7. Serve in any official capacity or be listed as the sponsor of a partisan political party or club.

8. Speak before a partisan political gathering of any kind to promote a partisan political party or candidate.

9. Take part in any radio, television or other program or group discussion as an advocate of a partisan political party or candidate. <<<--------------

10. Conduct a political opinion survey at the direction of or in support of a partisan political group.

11. Distribute partisan political literature. <<< ------------------------

12. Use contemptuous words against the president, vice president, Congress, the secretary of defense, the secretary of a military
department, or the governor or legislature of any state or territory. <<<<--------------------

13. Perform clerical or other duties for a partisan political party or committee during a political campaign or on Election Day.

14. Engage in fund-raising activities in federal offices or facilities for a partisan political cause or candidate, including anywhere on a military installation.

15. March or ride in a partisan political parade.

16. Display a large political sign, poster, or banner (as opposed to a decal) on his or her automobile.

17. Take part in any organized effort to provide voters with transportation to the polls (voting place) if it is organized or associated with a partisan political party or candidate.

18. Sell tickets for or otherwise actively promote political dinners and other political fund-raising events.

19. Attend partisan political events as an official representative of the Army, even when there is no active participation.

These lists of permitted and prohibited activities are not exclusive. However, they provide specific examples of political activities that a soldier may and may not perform.

[BanTheGOP]

137. He shouldn't be censored, per se...

...BUT the radio waves ARE public use, so we have a moral obligation to either balance it, or remove it, from captive areas such as Armed Forces Radio. I could care less if most soldiers want to listen to that drivel. They shouldn't even be overseas in any case in the first place, but that's another story.

In extension, we need to pursue localization statutes that disallow consolidate national shows in the first place, UNLESS there is an ideological balance of editorial policies. In addition, we tax stations heavily if they do not balance in their local markets as well, which will usually be enough to suppress local hate right wing shows as well. Finally, consider the fact that the republican party ITSELF is a criminal organization, so advancing its ideals is akin to a RICO statute in itself. That, by the way, supersedes the so called first amendment "right" that the cons have for spewing their hate filled scumbag-laced vile.

I will have a more detailed post in my blog by next week that will detail both specifics and, just as importantly, legalities. It is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT that we take out Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity off the national radio scene by this summer so we can progress smoothly with our own agenda.

[Mnemosyne]

138. Word. KnR. n/t

[bdamomma]

140. oh most definitely he spews hate and division.

and lies.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

142. He should be pulled because he is a racist hate monger. He orginated the "Magic Negro" song. nt

[Historic NY]

146. If they want him then they should be required to subscribe to

his network..it should not be freely broadcasted. How many people do you think would pay if they had to subscribe to zitass. By making it a subscription service only those willing to pony up get to listen...

[Hippo_Tron]

151. I've got a better idea, we should get our troops satellite radio

You'd think XM/Sirius would be patriotic and provide it at a discount.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

153. How about

replacing Limbaugh with Malloy?:evilgrin:

K&R

[99th_Monkey]

154. OR leave Limpballs on, but ADD MIKE MALLOY SHOW w/ Equal Time. ~nt~

[pitchforksandtorches]

158. Rush - I hereby declare you are no longer allowed to express opinions. Ever.

[Enthusiast]

184. No one is suggesting that

We are only objecting to his brand of lies specifically about the CIC. If you had a corporation you would not want radios playing anti CEO stuff all day.

[BrklynLiberal]

159. He is still on there???!! I hope the troops start demanding his removal from AFR.

[Enthusiast]

167. I started a thread about this a week ago. Rec!

This is a serious issue. I agree with the poster that suggested Rush's words are sedition. I've listened to Limbaugh, he is a pure lies and trash. Fascist propaganda.

[Optical.Catalyst]

171. K&R

[Loudmxr]

181. When he wants the CIC to fail, he gets his tail, off the rail. Dump Rush NOW!!

[Kaylee]

185. Definitely....especially after saying he hopes the President fails. nt.

[Philosoraptor]

186. D I T T 0 !

[era veteran]

188. Cyst Boy

Why would a draft dodger get a spot on AFR ? Can't the reich wing find a patriotic kool aid puker? I wish he would have been on my tank. Every argument this little dick prick makes is based on specious "facts". FUCK RUSH

[WVRICK13]

190. Limpballs A Terrorist

If any media star had hoped for the failure of Bush publicly they would have been considered terrorists yet we use the 1st Amendment as a defense for inciting treason. I do not think Limballs should be removed because it offends us but he should be removed because it is ignorant for our own government to encourage dissent with their own broadcasts. Holy shit, the country still hates Jane Fonda for her comments on Vietnam but our own military airs this nonsense.

[Bucky]

191. maybe, but you have to wait for his next big fuck up

Doing so preemptively will make a martyr out of him and would border on the tyrannical. He's bound to be popular with a number of the troops, unfortunately, so any removal of him has to be above the charge of politicization of AFR.

[NJmaverick]

193. He is UnAmerican and subversive. No business exposing the troops

to anti-American propaganda

[Hubert Flottz]

194. Tokyo Rush...

Congress needs to stop wasting our money.

[glitch]

196. Rush Limbaugh can say whatever the hell he wants

But US taxpayers DO NOT have to pay to broadcast his spewage.

[Nothing Without Hope]

198. Yes, exactly. n/t

[Xenotime]

203. I disagree. There are limits to "free speech"

[antimatter98]

199. Limbaugh incites bigotry, violence, and is anti-American. Should be shut down on AFRTS. n/t

[lelgt60]

201. Question: Who decides who is on Armed Forces Radio? n/t

[onenote]

216. Broadly speaking -- an arm of the DoD decides

The Armed Forces Network is run by an arm of the Department of Defense. The management of
the network are charged with responsibility for deciding what programming to present and
of obtaining the necessary rights to such programming. Most programming, as I understand it,
is donated to AFN by the rights holders at no charge or a greatly reduced charge.

The stated goal of the AFN in to give overseas personnel a "touch of home" by
offering them programming that not only meets the varied interests and tastes
of such personnel and their families but that reflects programming representative
of that currently available in the US. In meeting this goal, the AFN pursues the rights
to the most popular programming available in the US, while also seeking out diversity
in programming. Thus, in addition to limbaugh and hannity -- two of the most popular talkers
on radio -- AFN also offers programming from such sources as the Tom Joyner Show, the Ed Schultz show, and NPR. Religious programming on AFN is selected in consultation with the Armed Forces
Chaplains Board.

[eagleswing963]

202. What about a libel suit?

Make this arrogant SOB prove these veterans are "phony" soldiers!!

I am sure some lawyer(s) would take such a case on!

And I am sure KO and Rachel Maddow would make the suit part of their program every evening!

Even if he never pays a dime (which I am sure he will not! He'll dodge it some way), it will discredit this hot air balloon.

Maybe enough the stations will pull him themselves, for fear of being a defendant in another suit!

[DissedByBush]

206. Limbaugh is on AFN because the troops asked for him

I was there at the time. By the time I left they were still complaining they don't get the full three hours of the show.

[Junkdrawer]

211. No, he's there because Bob Dornan asked for him. Only 4% wanted talk radio...

...

Eleven years ago it was Republican members of Congress whose pressure put Limbaugh on American Forces Radio in the first place. In 1993, then Rep. Robert Dornan, R-Calif., along with 69 other Republican House members, sent a letter to President Clinton's first secretary of defense, Les Aspin, demanding that both Limbaugh's radio show and his syndicated television show (on which Limbaugh compared preteen Chelsea Clinton to a dog) be broadcast to the military. "Limbaugh has been called by his liberal critics 'the most dangerous man in America.' It appears the liberal leadership at the Pentagon agrees with that ridiculous assertion," Dornan wrote. "The bottom line is that the troops want Rush Limbaugh, and you should see to it that they at least have that opportunity."

The Pentagon responded by pointing to an internal survey of 50,000 military listeners that found that only 4 percent requested more long-format talk radio. Most respondents overwhelmingly requested continuous music. The Pentagon also said that Limbaugh's daily three-hour radio program would monopolize too much of the network's limited airtime.

Notably, on Nov. 29, 1993, American Forces Radio and Television Services issued this statement: "The Rush Limbaugh Show makes no pretense that his show is balanced. If AFRTS scheduled a program of personal commentary without balancing it with another viewpoint, we would be open to broad criticism that we are supporting a particular point of view."

...

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/05/26/rush_limbaugh/print.html

[DissedByBush]

239. The study was only about talk radio in general

Notice the study, long-format. A lot of soldiers were happy to at least get one hour of Limbaugh, and something to balance NPR, which is broadcast quite a bit. I know because I listened to NPR every day. Soldiers are a cross-section of the populace but skewed a bit to the right. It is reasonable that a lot of them would want to have Limbaugh. I read the letters to the editors in S&S, this how it was.

Not that I like Limbaugh, but that is just the facts.

And you DO want our soldiers to get what they want, right?

[Junkdrawer]

240. I don't doubt there is a tiny, tiny vocal minority that wants Limbaugh...

but Limbaugh opinions, on torture in particular, are so far out of the mainstream that I think Obama, as Commander in Chief, has every right to end the AFR's relationship with Limbaugh.

15 years of Limbaugh is quite enough, thank you.

[DissedByBush]

241. You forget the average political leanings of the military

They're a good bit to the right of the general populace, especially the officers.

Obama may have every right to do it, but does he want to put politics ahead of the morale of the troops? Just because we don't agree with Limbaugh gives us no right to stop the soldiers who like him from listening. AFRTS is supposed to be a cross-section of listening in the US, and Limbaugh has the highest-rated talk radio show in the country.

Me, I'd never heard of Limbaugh when this was brewing back there in the early 90s since I'd been overseas since the show started.

[Brgotn]

212. I think this quote from another post says it all:

"It is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT that we take out Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity off the national radio scene by this summer so we can progress smoothly with our own agenda."

Considering that there are two other viewpoints being presented on AFN I really don't see the big deal. Removing shows because you don't agree with the views of the host is wrong no matter what their political affiliation is.

I get the feeling that many here don't think the solders are capable of thinking for themselves..

[Vinnie From Indy]

221. C'mon now!

You take an extreme, nebulous comment from an unidentified post and then offer that this is the reason we should resist a call to take Limbaugh off of AFN. YOu , as well as the rest of the Limbuagh defenders on this thread, are almost purposely trying to inject silly, nonsensical, non-relevant distractions into the discussion.

This issue is quite simple. Limbaugh has been on since the mid-1990's and he has absolutely no right to be heard on AFN to the exclusion of all other conservative voices. In short, there are hundreds of conservative commentators that he can be replaced with AND the fat drug addict can still peddle his lies and propaganda to his shrinking demographic of morons, fools and idiots on FOUR HUNDRED radio stations coast to coast. No free speech issues here.

I think it is obvious that many on this thread are purposely being obtuse and willfully ignorant.

[texastoast]

233. What do you think of balancing the viewpoints?

Should the soldiers be made aware of the opposite spin?

[DirtyDawg]

213. He's clearly an enemy combatant...

...and as such, thanks to his hero geedubyabush and 'the dick' cheney, we still have a place for him on the Eastern tip of Cuba (at least for a year or so). Send his fat-ass down there for a little interrogation - none dare call it torture if it's administered to a total asshole like him - hell, he might even lose a little weight, the prick.

By the way, if anybody's recruiting a group to make him disappear, count me in.

[Brgotn]

214. As a group aren't we above all of that?

n/t

[texastoast]

224. Yes, we are

We have a lot of multi-post trolls on here trying to make progressives look violent and bad, not that I'm saying the poster is a troll. It could be the poster was just venting as we all sometimes need to do. God knows that Rush knows how to push people's buttons. It's tempting to give in to his hatred and devisiveness and sling back his slimy hateballs (if that can be a word). You are right. We have to rise above taking his lowly bait and productively reframe the situation against him.

Meanwhile, welcome to DU!

:hi:

[rgbecker]

217. Send some feedback to AFN about how feel about tax dollars paying for Limbaugh raving.

http://www.afneurope.net/AFNEuropeFeedbackForm/tabid/931/Default.aspx

[Joey Liberal]

218. I agree! But its even worse!

DoD (at least where I'm located) blocks all political radio on computers - except for Limbaugh.

[apnu]

220. I've been saying that for years. (nt)

[trayfoot]

225. I would agree IF the troops do not get liberal radio shows.

[Cha]

227. What kind of condition is that? Rush Limpbaugh is

a traitor and needs to go. He fucking hates America.

[Cha]

226. Good One, Vinnie!

There was a military Mom on here saying Soldiers were complaining to her son in Iraq that Obama was going to cut Military Pay by 9%..guess where they got that from?

They have enough to go through without having Toyko rush pumped into their heads.

[proud patriot]

235. Yes !

agreed

[AnotherMother4Peace]

238. I agree - he's a racist hate monger, & is calling for the failure of our Commander & Chief

As a citizen of this fine Country, this is not a message I want broadcast to our young men & women in uniform.