My friend, the death row prisoner, is busy dying at this moment.

[Th1onein]

I know a lot of you are for capital punishment. I understand, and I don't want to argue about it.

I just want you to know that a human being is being put to death right now, at this moment, by strangers who care nothing about him, strapped to a gurney in a Huntville, Texas prison.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. I'm not for the death penalty - it serves no purpose except a medieval one nt

[blaze]

2. I am so sorry n/t

[anonymous171]

3. The death penatly is immoral and unjust.

I'm sorry for your loss.

[hlthe2b]

4. I"m very sorry to hear about this case... I don't know any details

But, being likewise strictly against the death penalty, I stand with you. May this person find peace in whatever comes. May the victims, whether at the hand of this man or another) likewise find the peace they seek. I'm sorry for you TH1onein. How did you come to know him?

[Uzybone]

6. +1

you just said it best.

[Th1onein]

15. I write to death row prisoners.

I find a prisoner (usually online ads from other countries who are anti-capital punishment) who has no family that writes to him and I begin writing to him. I send him money several times a year, to make sure he has stamps, and other essentials. I find out what he's interested in, and ship him books and magazines. Sometimes, often, get him a newspaper subscription to his hometown. Just generally try to be a friend to someone who is friendless.

I don't "fall in love," and I let them know, at the outset, that that is not what this is all about. I try to be consistent in writing, so that they know that there is one person they can count on, to communicate with.

It's a heartbreaking task, to write to one of these prisoners until they die, but it is very necessary, I think.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

17. That's an incredibly selfless thing to do...

Thank you.

The death penalty is barbaric, but no matter what anyone thinks of it, no one deserves to die alone and friendless.

[Hannah Bell]

26. That is a great kindness.

[hlthe2b]

40. That is incredible, Th1onein... you have my utmost respect...

I'll be thinking of you throughout this day... :hug:

[Vanje]

86. Wow!

THats wonderful.

[Seldona]

141. What a selfless thing to do.

You cannot buy what you are giving these prisoners, beyond the bit of money and items you send. Sometimes knowing there is one person out there that cares is all it takes to make it through the worst of times.

Amazing. I think I will, when I get back to work, take up your cause. You've inspired me. Thank you.

[sammythecat]

155. Heartbreaking for sure,

and I'm sorry for the sadness you must be feeling.

I lost my faith some years ago, but if there is a Jesus in Heaven and he sees an act of charity like this, he must think to himself, "SOMEBODY freakin' gets it!" I don't want to embarrass you by gushing, but your kindness and determination to commit yourself to being a reliable friend to someone like this is truly inspirational.

[ClayZ]

188. I am sorry~

K and R

[Ani Yun Wiya]

195. Thank you.

This is a noble thing that you do.
May your passage through this life be eased for that which you do for these that are forsaken.

[GliderGuider]

214. You just stopped me dead in my tracks.

What a magnificently compassionate thing to do.


Namaste

[naaman fletcher]

230. Do you ever write to the families of victims?

You know, the kids who don't have their moms or dads anymore because of people like your friend? Do you send them money to make sure they can buy a baseball mitt, or maybe basketball shoes?

Or you just care for murderers more?

[canadianbeaver]

239. FORGIVE

COMPASSION
LOVE FOR ALL


I hope you find whatever it is you are looking for.

Both situations need these.

[canadianbeaver]

242. Just to clarify.....

LOVE FOR ALL.....Does not mean love the deed...does not mean love without pain...we live in a world of unbelievable cruelness and violence against each other...

I don't disagree with you either...you are allowed to feel whatever you feel....I make no judgment on you or the people involved with this horrible tragedy.

[naaman fletcher]

243. I judge him..

He's a piece of shit who murdered a bunch of people.

[canadianbeaver]

245. I accept your views......

I hope you can accept others as well.

Peace to you and all involved with this.

Our world has not really changed from the first time humans set foot.....barbaric,I feel, to say the least...I sure wish it was not this way.

[HEyHEY]

262. I bet you identify as a christian too

[naaman fletcher]

271. nope

I am a deist, that is, I believe there is some higher power. but that's it. Sorry you worship killers. But hey, that's your right.

[Shakespeare]

278. Logic/fail

Showing compassion does not equal worship. But you already knew that. Enjoy your big, heaping, helping of bullshit and hyperbole.

[Shakespeare]

277. What a nasty, bullshit post.

What a sad person you are.

[DemReadingDU]

246. you are an admirable person

kind and compassionate
thank you

[wicket]

269. Bless you Th1onein for caring for the least among us

:hug:

[AndyA]

5. I'm sorry.

The world is such a cruel place today. Is it any wonder things are the way they are? :shrug:

I wish both you and your friend peace.

[Maat]

7. I'm so sorry ... I'm against the death penalty ...

because it lowers US to a criminal level, in my humble opinion - not criminal in the legal sense, but in a psychological sense.

Peace be with you. Peace be with him.

[Jokerman]

8. Barbaric.

I hope someday to live in an enlightened, compassionate society.

This isn't it.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

9. I know how badly you must be feeling right now. :(

I really, really hate the death penalty, for so many reasons. One of these days our country will come to its senses and join the rest of the civilized world on this issue.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

10. I'm deeply sorry.

Someone close to me was recently incarcerated. I try to visit every other weekend and the experience has opened my eyes
to a people struggling with poverty, powerlessness, illness, a host of issues most of us are never exposed to.

My heart goes out to you and your friend's family...if he has one. So many don't.

[immoderate]

11. The death penalty is the supreme hypocrisy.

Sorry about your friend.

--IMM

[Why Syzygy]

12. I'm so sorry.

:cry: I'm opposed to capital punishment. fwiw I too hope to someday live in a more enlightened society. :hug:

[Subdivisions]

13. I'm truly sorry, ma'am. n/t

[JuniperLea]

14. The death penalty is beyond barbaric, and beyond archaic

It's so hard to believe that society hasn't progressed enough to abolish this heinous act.

I'm so sorry.

[naaman fletcher]

16. I'm opposed to the death penalty..

because I don't trust the government (read the various books on the Death Penalty in Oklahoma, including Mark Furhman's).

But, I have no sympathy for your friend, or that he is being put to death "by strangers who care nothing about him".

He should have thought about that before he killed his step-mother and robbed her of her wedding ring.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-perkins_22met.ART.East.Edition1.4ee2f40.html

[Sequoia]

25. Wow, those crimes are awful! Raping 12 year old girls?!!

Killed his step-mom for a mere $150.

[invader zim]

280. Let it happen

Society will be a little better off once he is gone.
He never once showed any remorse for crips sake.

[noiretextatique]

33. on the one hand, "you don't trust the government" yet

you believe everything in that article? hmmm...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

49. He led police to the body of his stepmother.

[Beer Snob-50]

208. two wrongs do not make a right

i will not debate this subject right now out of respect for the op.

[naaman fletcher]

212. that's true..

But that does not mean I have any sympathy for him.

[LostinVA]

227. I am 100% against the death penalty, but I wish to say this

I think people like this should have life in prison without parole, and spend every minute of every day in a little cell, with no TV, no little snacks from the commissary, nothing that's fun and bright and nice. People like this are sociopaths, who can never be rehabbed and have no remorse, even if they try to fake it in court. They need to be culled from society for their natural life.

[Bolo Boffin]

283. I agree 100%.

Those who cannot restrain themselves (as this prisoner has repeatedly demonstrated) should be restrained for the rest of their natural lives. What the state spends to exhaust legal appeals would be less, as I understand it, than simple incarceration.

[childslibrarian]

18. What you are doing is honorable

Thank you.

[malaise]

19. I will never support the death penalty

:cry:

[aikoaiko]

20. Even as a DP supporter, you have my condolences.

If this person is Reginald Perkins, did he ever express remorse for killing his stepmother?

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-perkins_22met.ART.East.Edition1.4ee2f40.html

[Th1onein]

23. He claimed that he didn't do it.

And I'm not going to get into an arguement with you about his innocence or guilt here.

[aikoaiko]

31. That's ok. My condolences are sincere.

[...of J.Temperance]

61. Nearly ALL Death Row inmates "claim" aka PRETEND they're innocent

According to them, NONE of them committed their crimes....even John Gacy "claimed" he was innocent as well.

Utterly absurd.

I'm sorry Perkins was your friend, but I have no sympathy for him, I have sympathy for YOU because you've lost a friend....my sympathy for him is non-existent....my sympathy for his victims is a hundred-fold.

[varkam]

97. True. However that has nothing to do with whether or not they actually are or are not innocent.

I'm willing to wager more than a couple folks we've killed have been innocent.

[defendandprotect]

165. Gacy aside . . . DNA tests have been suggesting a lot are innocent . . . !!!

That's why executions were stopped in Illinois/?

Wasn't that it --

If we had a fair minded Supreme Court rather than right-wing nuts, they would have

stopped all executions --

[Th1onein]

179. And you know that how?

Because you correspond with them? Because you represent them? Or did you just pull that "fact" out of your ass, too?

[LostinVA]

228. +1

[noiretextatique]

34. if he is innocent, why would he show remorse

in that same article, there is mention of his possible mental retardation.

[aikoaiko]

36. I haven't read anything that suggests he was wrongfully convicted - he led police to the hidden body

Even his lawyers attempts to reduce his sentence because of alleged mental retardation failed.


Do you have some more inforamtion that exonnerates him?

[noiretextatique]

42. neither you or i have any evidence

we can only go by what we read.

[Sebastian Doyle]

100. Well, this is Texas we're talking about.

Lots of false convictions there. Many of them overturned in recent years, though it was far too late for some of them, as they had already been executed or otherwise died in prison :(

Not saying this man is either guilty or innocent, but it's definitely one reason why capital punishment needs to severely limited if not completely abolished. That's a question I struggle with in my own mind, because when it comes to those who rape and murder children..... I'd like to kill those bastards myself. God help me :evilfrown:

[Ken Burch]

182. If he was innocent, from a legal standpoint, he COULDN'T have shown remorse

In the criminal justice system, remorse for a crime is considered tantamount to a confession of guilt.

[EFerrari]

21. I'm so sorry. If you want someone to sit with you, I will.

Someday we will know better and do better. I'm sorry it wasn't in time for your friend.

[PetrusMonsFormicarum]

22. Courage.

That is very courageous and considerate of you, Th1onein. I oppose the death penalty because the hard fact remains that it is not an effective deterrent, and it puts would-be protectors in the position of executioner.

[ThomCat]

24. I am sorry.

The death penalty is inhumane. :(

I hope someday soon it will be a relic of the past. I wish it already was.

[Riley18]

27. I am against the death penalty. It has no place in a civilized society.

Everyone in my family has always been against the death penalty. When was the last time a rich person was given that penalty?

[Orsino]

28. I am sorry.

I oppose capital punishment, and any unnecessary violence.

[lunatica]

29. The death penalty is nothing more than state sanctioned murder

And the crazy thing about it is that Americans actually vote on it like we have the right to make such decisions.

Being given life without the possibility of parole is punishment. Being put to death isn't. It's just murder. But politicians know how to play that fear card to the max.

[sohndrsmith]

30. I am NOT for Capital Punishment, although for the first time I can

recall, I actually mused over it when I consider the Anthony case (if proven). It didn't last, and was a purely emotional reaction because my daughters looked so much like the little girl, Caylee, at the same age I was just in a state of shock and it infuriated me. But even in this case, the death penalty would cause more pain to more people, and as angry as I might be, no one connected to this horrific crime deserve more pain, so I'm sane again : ).

One thing that I think is sometimes forgotten or not considered is that even people on death row have family (and friends) who are good, decent people who have suffered enormously already, and many of them suffer even more as a result of a family member being executed and I don't really think that is right or fair or just. I'm sure there are many family members who are eager to see their relative pay for crimes - the reactions run the gamut...

But these people are victims too, and will always be affected and that doesn't seem appropriate to me - or ethical.

I don't think I could ever support the death penalty, but I will always oppose it when the chance exists that the sentence and conviction could be WRONG, and that happens too often for me to think it is even marginally right.

I'm sorry you're going through this - I'm sure you feel isolated in your sorrow, because you may not have a lot of support - but I hope you do.

I'm glad you shared about it, it's probably one of the healthiest things you could do, because you didn't do anything wrong but you're in pain because someone you care for did, and we are all better off when we support each other in difficult times of grief and loss, whether we agree with the reason or not - that's irrelevant.

(((hugs))))

[Zodiak]

32. A guy I went to high school with got the death penalty

He's dead.

Not saying he was my friend because he was older and popular, etc., but I did know him.

He was executed there in Texas.

Rumor has it that he was rail-roaded through the judicial system because of a local DA that wanted to cut his teeth on a murder case (I believe the victim was an old woman). In Texas (and especially in my home town), the story sounds somewhat plausible, but I really don't know much about the facts of the case. I just know he is dead and I knew him....really freaks me out sometimes remembering him in his football uniform with his arm around his high-school sweetheart.

You are a really, really good person for doing what you do. Blows me away.

I am against the death penalty across the board....even for *. Besides, I think that the idea of * being forced to work the fry machine at McDonalds is the best punishment I can think of for him. It would be his first manufacturing job!

[Stevenmarc]

35. I hope you have the same empathy for Reginald Perkins victims

[nichomachus]

41. Yeah -- cause this will bring them back

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

51. So we should have empathy for him but not his victims, I think not.

[nichomachus]

53. I have empathy for his victims too -- but this doens't bring them back

I'm confused as to how killing someone demonstrates empathy.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

55. Who said it did?

All he said was he hoped the OP had the same empathy for the victims.

David

[nichomachus]

64. Well

it's pretty boorish to even suggest that the OP didn't -- unless you have some proof of it. Just pretty shitty behavior.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

67. They didn't say or suggest she didn't.

They just said they hoped she did.

David

[varkam]

131. The implication was obvious. eom

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

147. Okay.

We can disagree.

David

[varkam]

205. Well, apparently I wasn't the only one who thought that.

[Maru Kitteh]

289. Oh bull. You know better.

Either that, or you have no business in the business your moniker would indicate, because doing so safely and effectively requires that you make accurate assessments of human behavior without neon signs and a road map.

[deaniac21]

76. It will deter Mr. Perkins from raping or killing any more innocent

people.

[defendandprotect]

166. So would simply keeping him in prison . . . containment, that's the idea of it!

[Leftist Agitator]

221. Yes, unless he decides to rape or murder other prisoners.

Or guards, etc.

Fuck him. He got what he deserved.

[defendandprotect]

264. Well, we're not protecting women from rape in prisons. . . in fact, some are

being passed into male areas for money.

However, that doesn't make the premise wrong ---

that no prisoner should be able to or allowed to hurt another prisoner.

And that certainly no guard or prison official should be able to SELL

a female prisoner for "sex."

We now have more than 2 million people locked up --- the figure is 1 in 34 of us!!!

THIS is a threat to every American.

You also have to face reality that almost one half million prisoners are released

every year -- having paid their "debt" to society -- and they re-enter society after

having spent years/decades in prison with other criminals. Think that's a good idea?

Those prisoners will be released -- but our expectations of prisons and rehabilitation

have to be raised so that we are releasing human beings back into society and not

even more hardened criminals.

[varkam]

130. Dave - it's not an either / or proposition. eom

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

150. I agree.

I thought the poster was just saying don't forget about the victims. I might have chosen a different way to say it and I could be wrong since I have no idea who the poster is.

David

[Greyhound]

154. Once again you have managed to completely miss the point, congratulations.

There are the congenitally dim and the purposely obtuse, one of these categories fits...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

156. Don't be so hard on yourself.

[Greyhound]

170. I know you are, but what am I?

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

171. I thought you would appreciate that.

[KitchenWitch]

224. What a seriously shitty thing to say.

How charitable of you to insinuate that the OP does not have empathy for his victims as well as having empathy for him.

The OP is showing some human kindness to someone who probably does not see a whole lot of it and you go and piss and shit all over her thread.

Compassion is not just for those who "deserve" it.

[Two Americas]

172. no such thing

Empathy doesn't pick teams. You are talking about something other than empathy - a desire for revenge, which is the same emotion that often motivates murderers.

[Th1onein]

175. If they ARE his victims. Of course I do.

I am against the death penalty. And I am not here to argue the innocence or guilt of Reginald Perkins. Your knee jerk reaction is silly, and unnecessary. In the end, we are all responsible for our actions. So what does that say about you, who supports state-sanctioned murder?

I hope that you have the same empathy for Reginald Perkins that you have for his victims.

[Stevenmarc]

206. Let's get something straight

You make some kind of “knee jerk” assumption that I'm for the death penalty, on the record, I'm not, it really doesn't serve any purpose in modern society. However, unlike you I can separate the issue from the individual. I'm not here to debate Reginald Perkins guilt or innocence either, because that issue has already been dealt with by the courts.

Personally I don't think you further the cause of ending the death penalty with a pathological need to become emotionally connected to individual prisoners. I also don't think you further the cause by being dishonest with the members of DU by not using Reginald Perkins name, figuring that most people would look him up to see exactly who he is and what he did, it's clearly a lie by omission. I can see why you left that little pertinent fact out of your OP, quite frankly Reginald Perkins doesn't lend a lot of sympathy to the cause and it's obvious, sympathy is what you were going for in your OP.

To answer your question if I have the same empathy for Reginald Perkins as I do his victims, honestly I don't. I have very little empathy for him beyond wishing he had a long life behind bars.

[varkam]

207. Pathological need?

I guess you think that people who do work with DP inmates are also "pathological", like Sister Helen Prejean (who also works with the families of the victims). Personally, I think society would do well with more of that particular "pathology"

[Stevenmarc]

210. I have immense respect for Sister Helen Prejean

and not so much for people that start a dialog dishonestly, they hurt the cause.

[varkam]

211. And on what basis do you think they're lying?

On what basis do you think they are afflicted with some sort of pathology and how, if at all, does it differ from Prejean's pathology?

[mitchum]

249. Wan't Prejean also "married to an invisible being"?

That alone sounds pretty pathological to me

[varkam]

259. Not talking about her religious views. eom

[mitchum]

265. Well, why did you invoke the "Sister" then?

[varkam]

268. As a means of identification - that's how I usually hear her referred to as.

[Th1onein]

213. This is the craziest post I've ever read.....

You must have missed some posts earlier in this thread. You know, the ones where I explained that I write to death row prisoners and why? There is no "pathological need" to become emotionally connected to individual prisoners, Dr. Frist. If you write to these prisoners, you develop an emotional connection with them. Period. That's the whole point--becoming a friend to the friendless. As for a "pathological need," it's a matter of basic, common decency, to reach out to the least among us; the most helpless.

There's no dishonesty here, either, and it's strange that you would make that assumption. Nor is there a request for sympathy. The intent of my post was to let people know that a human being was being put to death. It does not matter who, in my opinion, when it comes to the death penalty. It's a barbaric and cruel practice. As an anti-death penalty person, you should know that.

You make a lot of assumptions for someone I just now spoke to for the first time on the internet. Maybe you should examine your own motives and find the reason for that. I think you might be hiding a whole lot more than I am, friend.

[LostinVA]

229. I am 100% anti DP, but I have zero empathy for Perkins -- it's not possible

[Political Heretic]

184. Empathy for victims has nothing to do with killing yet another human being.

individuals and families, may want to murder the murderer out of anger, loss, sorrow and a desire for vengeance. But the state shouldn't be dealing out vengeance. It shouldn't be emotional. It's objective should be to protect society from those that would seek to harm others, and to do so in the most humane way possible.

No one would expect individuals and families connected to a horrific crime to feel that way. If my loved ones were murdered I would want to throw the switch myself - I'd want the murderers death to be cruel and unusual - which is why its a good thing that I don't have any standing in deciding such things.

Emotionalism, pain and loss are not the best basis for public policy. The state needs to be cool and impartial - its goals need to be protecting society from those who seek to harm others, and doing that in the most humane way possible.

[Ken Burch]

185. There's no contradiction between opposing the death penalty and expressing sadness and outrage

over the victims of murder.

As far as that goes, the criminal justice system never actually shows victims or the survivors of victims that much empathy.
It offers the survivors little true emotional support, does nothing to help them find counselors or others who could help them adjust to their losses, and does nothing to help them recover from the economic losses caused by the deaths of their loved ones.

The "if you oppose the death penalty you don't give a rat's ass about the victims" meme is bullshit and always has been. Sister Helen Prejean, among others, does a lot of work with the survivors of murder victims. The average DA forgets they were ever there once the verdict is in and "the perp" has fried.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Wow how horrid

I am a lifelong opponent of the death penalty. I am so sorry to hear about your friend. :hug:

[Occam Bandage]

38. Knowing nothing about the case, I can say nothing.

Maybe he deserves it, maybe he doesn't. I'd like to see the death penalty done away with, but not because "people are put to death by strangers."

[ColbertWatcher]

39. I wish I could do more than say how sorry I am.

I have not always been against the DP, but I am now.

[noiretextatique]

43. i am against the death penalty

it's barbaric.

[Joe Fields]

44. I'm sorry, but my sympathies would lie with the victim and their family.

I have a hard time mustering up any sympathy for death row inmates.

[FreeState]

45. Im sorry. All life is sacred - when we kill others, no matter the reason

we kill ourselves on some level. May he have peace in his final moments of this existence.

[Burma Jones]

46. I am against the Death Penalty, it is abused by ambitious District Attorneys

But I am also against Parole for violent offenders.

[tekisui]

47. State sanctioned murder is wrong.

It is nothing more than barbaric, blood thirsty revenge.

[minavasht]

48. Just saying

Since 1976 there were more than 36 000 murders in Florida.
For the same period of time there were 66 executions.
www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/deathrow/execlist.html

[Beaverhausen]

52. so, it's a revenge kinda thing for you?

Do you know how many people on death row have been cleared of their crimes since 1976?

[minavasht]

56. Is life in prison

revenge for you?

[Beaverhausen]

70. No, but killing people who kill people isn't right

[minavasht]

266. It is a punishment

And it works.
None of the executed ever hurt or killed again.

[...of J.Temperance]

59. Perkins seems a vicious piece of work, I don't know why one is expected to have sympathy for him

I'm sorry that whatshisname that started this thread is losing a friend....however, the victims of Perkins lost MUCH more than that.

The most heinous of crimes deserve the most extreme punishment....and the punishment fits those crimes.

[Loki]

81. Hatred is so much easier than compassion, isn't it?

[...of J.Temperance]

82. Why would I have compassion for rapists and murderers?

It's utterly bizarre to think that someone should have compassion for those who rape and murder.

I don't hate, I see rapists and murderers as sub-human.

My compassion is for their innocent victims.

[Loki]

Perhaps you are projecting.....

the specific choice of your terminology "sub-human" was used in the past and the present to describe those whom we wish to dehumanize and diminish.....repeat it often enough and it makes them easier to exterminate, if you understand my meaning, and I think you do. I think you understand that concept very well.

[...of J.Temperance]

99. Rapists and murderers ARE sub-human though

They are not to be considered human beings....their very heinous actions and TOTAL lack of empathy OR remorse for their innocent victims qualify them as sub-human.

One doesn't need to dehumanize nor diminish rapists and murderers, they have already dehumanized and diminished themselves.

When you have a mad dog on the loose with rabies, running around, biting people, you put it down....same with rapists and murderers.

On Edit: Added comment

[varkam]

103. It's not an either / or proposition, Mr. Temperance.

I think you can recognize that both parties are human beings, while simultaneously recognizing that the acts of the guilty are to be roundly rejected by civilized society.

[...of J.Temperance]

107. I'm a girl

Depends what you call a human being....eg. Was John Gacy a human being? Was Reginald Perkins a human being?

Human beings don't get off on torturing and hurting and raping and killing other human beings.

[varkam]

114. Yes, they were.

They were severely disturbed, without a doubt, and they did some truly horrible things. That doesn't mean that they cease to be human beings. The problem with saying that they aren't is where is that line drawn, and who gets to draw it? You? I'm sure that you will take that to mean that the only alternative is to give them hugs and sing Koombayah, but I assure you that is a false dichotomy - just because you respect the fact that someone is a human being even in spite of the horrible things that they have done does not mean that you advocate that they should escape punishment for their actions.

And I just realized that you are a woman - my mistake. Statistically speaking, the whole blood-lust thing is normally the domain of the male half of the species - so I just made an assumption. You have my apologies.

[...of J.Temperance]

120. No need to apologize :) And it's not blood-lust I don't think

But I'm not sure all of the Death Row crowd are disturbed....I myself don't think Gacy or say Ted Bundy were disturbed.

They often use the disturbed thing to garner sympathy so they can escape the Death Penalty, thank goodness it doesn't often work.

[varkam]

125. You don't think that they were disturbed?

Not to defend their actions, but IIRC Gacy experienced some pretty horrific abuse in his childhood that would leave anyone warped. I would think that arguing that someone who goes through that is fine and dandy is denying the obvious.

[...of J.Temperance]

127. I don't believe child abuse excuses such later actions

MANY people out there have suffered child abuse, yet they don't turn into abusers and/or murderers themselves.

[varkam]

129. I'm not saying they should escape culpability.

In most jurisdictions, unless you satisfy the M'Naghten test (which is a pretty high bar), you're not going to win on an insanity defense. I'm not saying that childhood abuse excuses subsequent conduct, but what I am saying is that it's pretty clear that these were disturbed individuals. I'm not saying that doesn't mean they could not distinguish right from wrong, or that what they did wasn't horrific, but rather those sorts of events serve as mitigating factors.

And, IIRC, the abuse that Gacy went through as a kid was pretty far-and-away beyond what most people experience.

Like I said, they were human beings. They were people. They were, however, people that were fucked in the head. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be punished (well, unless they were truly insane and then they should just be committed).

[mitchum]

252. No, hatred is earned...

so it's actually much harder.

My apologies for pissing on your bumper sticker

[MajorChode]

50. This is for those who support the death penalty

Do you really think it serves the victims to have the offender put to death?

A victim who is dead probably doesn't care one way or another, mostly because they are....DEAD!

Ah, but what about the other victims and the families of victims you say?

The legal standards for a death penalty case are much higher than for other cases. That means that not only is there a greater chance that the accused will go free, the chances of overturning the case on appeal are much higher. Next, while mandatory appeals work their way through the system, the "victims" you wish so much empathy for have to relive those bad memories over and over and over for years and years.

So do you really think the death penalty helps victims? Hmmm, far more misery, much greater chance the defendant walks or gets another trial, nothing but empty revenge in return.

Ah, but what about society you say, doesn't society benefit from the death penalty?

It costs the government FAR more to put a defendant to death than it does to keep them in prison for the rest of their life. So what does society get for that "investment"? Absolutely no reduction in the crimes punishable by the death penalty. Hmmm, far greater expense, no benefit.

So what about justice, you say? Doesn't the bible say "an eye for an eye"? Yes, well it also says a lot of things like "turn the other cheek" and quite a bit about forgiveness as well which is easily forgotten. Do you really think a murderer is so much better off rotting away the rest of their life in jail vs being put to death? Hmmm, not really my idea of justice for anyone.

And what about the other victims? What about the friends and family of the convicted? Imagine a child that gets to see his or her father being put to death by the state. What did they do to deserve such "justice"?

The death penalty serves nobody any purpose. Other countries figured that one out a long time ago.

[...of J.Temperance]

54. I support the Death Penalty 100%, my SYMPATHY is ONLY EVER for the innocent who have been murdered

And their loved ones and friends.

I have ZERO sympathy for Death Row inmates....my message to them is, sorry tough shit.

[JerseygirlCT]

60. Including the wrongfully convicted ones?

How do you feel about being complicit in their cold-blooded murder, carried out by the state? Tough shit for them, too?

[...of J.Temperance]

62. Well there's DNA and other tools now, these things didn't exist many years ago

I believe that the majority of people who've been executed have been guilty, and thus, correctly executed.

It's a TINY minority, a TINY minority of cases that unfortunately have been proven wrong, thanks to DNA and other advances.

Just because a minority of cases have turned out to be wrong, doesn't mean that 95% of Death Row inmates should get a free pass and a cozy ride.

[MajorChode]

65. It means you support murder, so long as the state is doing it

Do you even realize how asinine you sound?

[...of J.Temperance]

69. I don't consider the Death Penalty to be "murder"....it's not "murder", it's called Justice

I wouldn't say that the state "murdered" Ted Bundy or any other lowlife pondscum thats sat on Death Row.

[MajorChode]

74. Time to send up the flag

You've already said you could care less about the "tiny" minority of innocents who get put to death so long as most of the guilty get what you think they deserve. Ergo you support murder.

You can't have it both ways.

Sorry, tough shit.

[...of J.Temperance]

84. It's not state sanctioned "murder", the tiny minority who have been executed

By error have been unfortunate accidents.

The state DOESN'T deliberately execute those it deems innocent.

[TahitiNut]

88. It seems you've just shown your sig to be a falsehood.

"I'm an economic conservative and a social liberal."

I know of no reputable interpretation of "social liberal" that's supportive of the Death Penalty. None. Such a posture rightly belongs in the autocrat/authoritarian camp, a camp called "conservative."

:shrug:

[...of J.Temperance]

90. President Clinton supported the Death Penalty

So there's one more Social Liberal for you.

Considering I'm pro-Choice, pro-Gay Rights, pro-Stem Cell Research, anti-privatization of Social Security, pro-Minimum Wage....I'm most certainly a Social Liberal.

Being pro-Death Penalty doesn't make one "conservative"

A GREAT number of Democrats are pro-Death Penalty.

[MajorChode]

98. Clinton also supported getting blowjobs from fat interns

That doesn't mean I think that was a great idea either.

I really don't give a flying day-old-dog-turd who is or isn't against the death penalty. It's all argumentum ad numerum bullshit. There simply isn't any rational or logical argument for it, period. Anything else is simply an appeal to emotion or some other form of fallacious and unadulterated crapola.

[...of J.Temperance]

105. You said Social Liberals don't support the Death Penalty

I said considering I'm pro-Choice, pro-Stem Cell Research, pro-Gay Rights, anti-privatization of Social Security, pro-Minimum Wage....what the heck do you call that?

It's called being a Social Liberal.

I support the Death Penalty, I'm not going to cry about Death Row inmates, or write them letters offering them compassion....the appeal to emotion comes from the anti-Death Penalty crowd, not from the pro-Death Penalty crowd.

Oh and I also support Gun Rights.

Plenty of Democrats are pro-Death Penalty and support Gun Rights....in case you haven't noticed.


On Edit: Added comment

[MajorChode]

121. I never said any such thing

Sorry tough shit.

[...of J.Temperance]

123. On Edit: Sorry, it was TahitiNut and not you that said it

D'oh

[MajorChode]

126. Are you fucking high?

Since when the hell does "TahitiNut" = "Majorchode"

[...of J.Temperance]

128. The threads getting long, so I got mixed up....also I've been perfectly polite

Towards you, so I would expect the same sort of courtesy from you.

[MajorChode]

132. Touche, mon ami

Point taken. Just my particular flavor of crude humor and intense sarcasm combined with over the top cynicism. No permanent harm was intended. Just bitter food for thought.

I still want to find out where you get your mushrooms, though.

[Ken Burch]

183. That's the same President Clinton that cheerfully signed a welfare bill

that did nothing to help people get off welfare and simply punished them for accepting it. Once you attack the poor like that, you forfeit the right to call yourself a "social liberal". Social liberals believe in full employment and helping people up, not kicking them while they're down for short-term political gain.

Clinton also lost his right to claim "social liberal" status when he spent all his political capital in his first two years fighting not for health care but for Bush the First's trade deal. That deal was inherently anti-liberal and anti-progressive, as is anything that drives down wages, forces cuts in social benefits and causes the outsourcing of jobs to low wage countries.

[Moochy]

133. it's a Salad Bar !

It's a DLC Salad Bar! You pay by the pound and get to pick random policy stances from the right or center-middle-barely-left!

[TahitiNut]

142. Yup. No sneeze guard, either.

:silly:

[LeftyMom]

173. Oh, that's who that is.

Let me just say how much I love the ignore function.

[TahitiNut]

219. !

:rofl:

[MajorChode]

91. The flag is still up

First of all, intent is NOT required for murder. Next, the state DOES have intent. So even if you could somehow successfully argue against intent(which you can't), you STILL don't have a case it's not state sanctioned murder. Murder is still murder even if there is no intent so long as there is 'willful disregard for life' (malice).

The standard for guilt is "beyond reasonable doubt". Since the standard is by no means absolute it is a given that some will be convicted by "error" (which even you concede).

Since the state KNOWS it will eventually kill the innocent, you have premeditation, you have intent and you have malice aforethought thrown in for good measure. Ergo murder. In fact, first degree murder, in every state of the union.

This isn't an "unfortunate accident". It is deliberate. It is done with full intent. It is done with malice. It is murder, period.

[varkam]

106. UN-FUCKING-FORTUNATE ACCIDENTS?!

Let me get this straight - you're talking about the killing of innocent people while the guilty are skating away scot-free, and you characterize that as an "unfortunate accident?"

Something tells me you'd be singing a different tune if it were you in the chair, Caligula.

[LeftishBrit]

225. Of course it doesn't 'deliberately execute those it deems innocent'

That's not the point.

However, it DOES execute people who turn out to be innocent. And once they've been executed, you can't bring them back to life. There have also been quite a number of people imprisoned for murders they didn't commit - but at least they COULD be released once new evidence came in.

And people who are from minority groups/ socially isolated/ with low IQs/ poor/ without access to a good lawyer are far more likely to be wrongly convicted than those from more advantaged backgrounds.

In any case, the DP does not act as a deterrent. People are no safer from being murdered in places with the DP than in places without it. IIRC, you have yourself lived both in the USA, which has the DP, and in the UK, which doesn't. Did you honestly feel less safe from murderers in the UK?

[mitchum]

253. They share with the anti-choice crowd that dishonest compulsion to play fast and loose...

with the word "murder"

[merh]

72. Being on death row or in jail at all is not a free pass or a cozy ride

And yes, the innocent are still convicted because the system isn't perfect. And despite what you see on TV, not every case relies on the DNA and other "perfect evidence" gathered by a "perfect CSI" unit. (Most departments have someone that uses a tackle box loaded with clear tape, index cards, blush or powder brush, super glue and the like to pick up finger prints and process the scene.) Matter of fact, most district attorneys and prosecuting attorneys have to stand up and explain to the jury at the beginning of trial that CSI and other similar forensic shows are make believe and that type of perfect evidence gathering is rare.

[JerseygirlCT]

80. No, a tiny percentage of cases have had someone actually look

into them, and have thus been found to be wrongfully convicted. There are many more wrongfully imprisoned people who haven't had the benefit of a champion to look into their case.

And do you really think that, to use your example, given the existence of those "minority of cases", that's ok? It's ok to murder innocent people, b/c they're just the unlucky minority? Really? I'm stunned.

What you seem to be looking for here is vengeance. She's justice's ugly cousin. Don't take her to the dance. Vengeance has no place in our justice system.

[...of J.Temperance]

87. This is who you're defending, Perkins murdered 3 people and raped 2 12 year-old girls

He was already a convicted rapist, having raped those two girls in Ohio in 1982

He should have been executed back THEN, if the Death Penalty would have also included multiple rapists and not just murderers, he'd have been dealt with properly in 1982....and then the women he subsequently murdered later on would have been spared his depravity.

Perkins also showed no remorse....yet SOME here expect people to have compassion for him....bizarre.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-perkins_22met.ART.East.Edition1.4ee2f40.html

[MajorChode]

119. This is your bullshit argument, dissected

Since someone is against the death penalty, they MUST be for child rapists and murderers.

That's called a false dichotomy, Einstein, and it's a logical fallacy. In simpler terms, bullshit.

You lose. Thanks for playing. Better luck next time, or as you so eloquently put it, "sorry tough shit".

[JerseygirlCT]

198. Your accusation assumes I think those convicted of such a crime ought to

be out on the street. That's ridiculous hyperbole and you know it, or ought to.

But I am absolutely not willing to risk an innocent's life because I have a thirst for vengeance, which is your position.

The death penalty is wrong. It's barbaric. It also does not work as a deterrent and costs far more than imprisoning someone for life.

I have no desire to be complicit in a murder - which is what is required of me each time the state kills someone.

[Batgirl]

85. Yeah, because opposition to the DP automatically equates with wanting criminals to "get a free pass

and a cozy ride."

When it comes to DP opponents I just can't decide which ones I hate more: the ones who long to see criminals getting a free pass and a cozy ride, or the ones who don't give a shit about the victims. Because of course all DP opponents fall into one or both of those 2 categories. Not only do they wish for convicted criminals to get a free pass and a cozy ride, they think convicted criminals should have free ice cream for life and a special VIP entry at Disneyland. It's true, you can ask almost any death penalty advocate.

[...of J.Temperance]

94. It's just that I never actually see any compassion for the VICTIMS in these cases

From the anti-Death Penalty crowd....it's all feeling sorry for the one who's getting executed....I rarely read ANY feeling sorry for the victims and/or victims of the one who's getting executed.

[Batgirl]

102. So what would a death penalty opponent need to do in order to avoid your wrathful condemnation?

When discussing their negative opinion of the death penalty, should they just make sure to randomly sprinkle in disclaimers in order to make sure someone like you doesn't mischaracterize them as being uncaring and unfeeling towards crime victims?

Or should it be less random, at regular intervals? Like if they say "I'm against the death penalty because there is no way to avoid sometimes putting innocent people to death" then how many disclaimer statements should they utter in order to prove to you that they are capable of feeling at least a small twinge of compassion for victims?

[varkam]

122. That's because you equate compassion for victims...

with bloodlust for perpetrators. You apparently think that if you don't want to punish criminals just a little bit more than the last person who spoke, you don't care about victims. It's the same trap that "tough-on-crime" politicians fall into, and Republican voters eat it up.

[tekisui]

108. "I believe that the majority of people who've been executed have been guilty"

Your quote.

"My compassion is for their innocent victims."
Again, your quote.

If one innocent is wrongly put to death for the practice of state-sanctioned murder. It is always wrong. Innocent people have been murdered by the government because of the death penalty. One innocent dying is too great of a risk for one thousand murderers murdered.

[MajorChode]

63. Even if that's the way your feel, your death penalty argument still fails

Sorry, tough shit.

[...of J.Temperance]

66. The worst of society still live on Death Row, and 99.9% of them will be accordingly punished

The Death Penalty exists....so it doesn't actually matter IF you think my particular argument fails or not.

I have no desire whatsoever to sing Kumbaya with and give a hug to the worst that society has to offer.

[MajorChode]

71. If you want to justify your position with a knuckledragging mentality

...be my guest. Line up on the right with those who are wrong on just about everything else as well. Don't let your lack of logic or basic common sense get in the way of purely emotional nonsense. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Some are just more relevant than others.

[Batgirl]

95. Yeah, because DP opponents want nothing more than to "sing Kumbaya and give a hug"

to persons who've committed horrible crimes.

The logic and originality of your thought process are astounding! It's just so rare and unusual to hear a death penalty advocate attacking DP opponents with these sorts of Kumbaya-and-a-hug accusations.

[tekisui]

110. You have a link for that statistic?

[varkam]

113. Nah - she just pulled it out of her ass.

It was tucked right behind her ear.

[...of J.Temperance]

115. Huh? 99.9% of Death Row inmates WILL be executed, or do you see the MAJORITY of them being let off?

Death Sentence's are rarely commuted to either Life Imprisonment and/or let out.

99.9% of those on Death Row will have their sentences carried out on them.

[varkam]

117. You assume that 99.9% of people on death row are guilty.

I guess those that aren't are just "unfortunate accidents", right?

[tekisui]

118. Are you sure that 99.9% of those on death row are the worst of

society and deserve to be there?

[Moochy]

135. Got any more made up statistics?

that you'd like to pull out of thin air?

[uberllama42]

203. When you say 99.9% of Death Row inmates are executed

are you talking about nationally, in one state, or in a specific region?

What years are included in that statistic? Is it the last ten years? Does it encompass all the executions since the death penalty was reinstated by the Supreme Court? Or maybe it goes back to World War II?

Or is it just a bullshit number that you made up? Because it certainly sounds like a number you produced ex nihilo.

[DavidMS]

284. the worst of society don't live on death row

The worst of society got us into this financial mess. They Created financial instruments of dizzying complexity, created all sorts of risk where none had existed before and made worship of the free market (In the Ayn Rand sense of the word) their idolatry. They do much more damage, have wrecked the country and our grandchildren will be paying off the bill for it. The worst of it is that the believed what they were doing was good. So far they haven't been punished.

Yet, you want to put to death any murder. I don't see how this compares. Take the average murder and lock them in a small concrete box for 23 hours a day (22 if they are good) for the next 50-70 years. They are as good as dead to the outside world and if a mistake was made they can be released. I only support the death penalty for war criminals (much more serious, typically involve premeditation and having much more organization), spies (they will never tell what they know and before that point always should be given the option of going double agent), and people who committed treason. Given the activities of the Bush administration, I would be severely tempted to also suggest hanging torturers. But that isn't quite severe enough a crime. Don't get me wrong it still shocks the conscience and they all need to be tried and ideally convicted.

[defendandprotect]

167. Many of those Death Row Inmates have been "INNOCENT" . . .!!!

[Chan790]

248. The more I occasionally come across your posts...

the more I'm ashamed to be in the same political party as you. I just wanted you to know that. Do with that information what you will, as I don't really care what your opinion is of my opinion and I won't be commenting further. It's people like you that give moderates a bad name and the reason that people hate the DLC. If I were Al From, I'd be embarrassed to have you identify with the DLC because you are both a bad spokesperson for the third way and a hate-filled twit who never has anything nice to say.

So...to you, I say. "Good Day." and with thus, you're the newest addition to my very-short ignore list.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

77. Hell, why even imprison the murderer either?

After all, I'm sure the victim doesn't care because they are dead.

And a child having to watch their father locked up forever.....awful....have a heart.

[MajorChode]

79. Let's just murder all criminals. Yeefuckinghaw!!!!!

China gives the death penalty to 3 time loser purse snatchers. After all, they are just the dregs of society right?

Woohoo! Your silly game of extremes is fun has hell!

It's completely mindless, but at least there's the entertainment value of making a complete ass out of yourself, no?

[Contrary1]

83. I'm gonna jump in here, even though I am 100% against the DP

This man was sentenced for a previous crime to life in prison. A life sentence should not be handed down lightly, but once it is, it should mean precisely that...life.

Our present justice system released him, so that he could commit more crimes. The whole thing is screwed up and need an overhaul.

[MajorChode]

109. This is what you have to understand about the Texas system

Up until just a few years ago, Texas juries had only TWO choices for the most severe punishment which was "life in prison" or the "death penalty". This was by design. Texas juries knew a life sentence was an indeterminate life sentence which was subject to reprieve by a parole board, however they didn't have the option of a determinate life sentence or "life without the possibility of parole". The reason why is because the state of Texas WANTED to put more people to death so that option WASN'T available to juries.

So in Texas life never necessarily meant life and juries were well instructed in that regard. There is also plenty of reasons why the option of life WITH the possibility of parole is a viable option.

[aikoaiko]

139. I've heard it said that the DP does offer one advantage for society -- life plea deals.

When DP is the ultimate punishment, then the gov't can offer life in prison as a plea deal.

But when life in prison is the ultimate punishment, the gov't can only offer life with parole.

Honestly, I don't know how often plea deals happen for murder 1, but I thought it was interesting.

[MajorChode]

144. This works great so long as 100% of the accused are guilty

However there are a number of problems with your reasoning. While it is true that most of the law is pure bluff, the thing about bluffs is they are called sometimes.

Consider a person who is innocent and is given the option you suggest. They are now faced with the dilemma of bartering their freedom for removing the possibility they may lose their life. In most states those who accept a plea deal must give up all rights to appeal. So what would you do if you were wrongly accused? Would you stand up for your innocence if you knew you might lose and get murdered for your efforts? I sure as hell wouldn't want to have to make that choice.

Now consider the other side of the bluff. Say you have a person that is guilty, but they really don't care much about their life and opt for a trial. You still have all the other problems I previously mentioned with the death penalty which had nothing to do with guilt or innocence.

So perhaps society benefits in some cases where the expense of a trail and possible appeals are avoided, but those benefits are negated by the reality that even more innocent people are being wrongly convicted as a result. You can't justify the ends if the means result in more innocent people are put away to rot. That's not justice.

[Jack_DeLeon]

258. I'm not very religious...

It could be that when we die we could cease to exist and that this world is all that there is.

Why should someone who has unjustly ended someone else life be allowed to continue to exist?

[New Dawn]

290. Well, I support putting certain white-collar criminals on death row.

I suppose you don't like me now. :evilgrin:

[JerseygirlCT]

57. That makes me feel literally ill

I'm sorry for your loss. And I'm sorry for a country that still thinks it's ok to murder people, so long as the gov't does it.

[TheKentuckian]

58. I stand behind you

The death penalty makes us all murderers when an innocent is executed, spits in the face of the concept of redemption, does nothing to prevent the crimes it is used for, and makes us a society fueled by revenge.

Mostly, it just isn't worth the risk of spilling innocent blood. If we screw the pooch (as we often do) then there is nothing to be done to correct the wrong.

I can't say I'm utterly against it as I might want some vengeance, but I don't want to be associated as a society at all. If the families want revenge then let them deal with it. I suggest we bring back dueling in a limited fashion. I also say that nationally televised public executions of BushCo. might be such a powerful image as to actually do good. It might repress the urges of the robber-barons and likely our national squeamishness might result in the practice being stopped afterward.

[tnlefty]

68. I don't support capital punishment, and I'm sorry for you

and 'the condemned'; I always thought that was a strange expression.

I'm going to light a candle for your friend and for you. :hug:

[lightningandsnow]

73. I'm so sorry.

Edit: his crimes were horrible, but I am sorry you are losing a friend. Putting him to death solves nothing. I wish you, and him, peace.

I'm not a fan of the death penalty.

You're in my thoughts. You're such a selfless person. :hug:

[proud patriot]

75. I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your Friend

:( That Sucks :hug:

[Loki]

78. The death penalty is nothing more than state sanctioned murder.

As Gandhi said" An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." We have administered this imperfect brand of justice for hundreds of years to innocent and guilty alike and nothing changes the fact that we are killing another human being. We like to call it justice, but it has it's deep roots in revenge. It has never stopped violence or murder, even at the height of the death penalty machine throughout our country and the world. My compassion for the victims, their families and the damaged and lost souls who committed these horrible acts goes beyond the deeds but to the heart of what my religious beliefs and spiritual journey compels and demands me to strive for, and that is the act of forgiveness. May this last journey for this man be to a place of peace and forgiveness for himself, for his victims and for their families.

[Shardik]

89. K&R

We should step up and join the rest of the industrialized world.

As others have said, this is state sponsored murder.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

92. I just don't understand it. It is irrational. Totally irrational.

And that it still occurs in the United States, in the 21st Century? I'll never, ever, ever understand it.

[ezgoingrl]

93. How awful

I don't have the words...only I am sorry.

[merh]

96. peace to you

may god have mercy on our souls, a society that murders its own citizens is not civilized.

[Flying Dream Blues]

101. I was on the fence until I saw Dead Man Walking, and since that moment have

known absolutely the DP is wrong and barbaric. I am so sorry for your loss, and your friend's sad life and death.
:hug:

[Condem]

104. I missed what he was convicted for.

Anyone.

[...of J.Temperance]

112. Here's the link.....he was a MULTIPLE rapist of two 12 year old girls AND a MULTIPLE murderer

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-perkins_22met.ART.East.Edition1.4ee2f40.html

[Th1onein]

176. Now, you're judge and jury, J. Temperance?

You need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills. Reginald Perkins was never convicted of raping those two girls. Nor was he convicted of killing the other two you are talking about. In fact, they took DNA evidence from him, for those cases. But we never heard back from them on it....I wonder why? Of course, it's easy to sit and tell a reporter that you suspect him of multiple rapes and murders (that's why they have trials, to keep people from being convicted on the word of a cop out for a notch on his belt). Just like it was easy for the cop to tell the reporter that Reginald Perkins was so smart that is was scary.......Ted Bundy was so smart it was scary, but I've been writing to Reginald for years now, and believe me, he's NOT smart. He's barely on this side of literate.

Like I said before, I am not here to argue the innocence or guilt of Reginald Perkins. But, knowing what little I do know about the case, there are some really, really questionable pieces of "evidence" involved in his case. I think that if he'd had a decent attorney, and not been a black man on trial in Texas, he might have even been exonerated.

[LostinVA]

233. The DNA from him matched the crime scene's DNA -- unless the Dallas News is making that up

[.... callchet ....]

116. http://www.dallasnews from above

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-perkins_22met.ART.East.Edition1.4ee2f40.html

[Blue_In_AK]

111. I'm sorry.

In my mind, the death penalty is never justified.

[Mnemosyne]

124. Th1onein,

I am so terribly sorry for the loss of your friend. :hug:

Such a "progressive" act. :sarcasm:

[brentspeak]

134. The human beings he killed and raped were strangers who HE cared nothing about

[varkam]

136. Who here is saying that what he did was anything but horrific? eom

[woo me with science]

143. I see very few saying it was horrific at all. nt

[MajorChode]

146. Does anyone really need to say murder and rape are horrific?

In order to prove to you that they believe it's true?

There are millions of people who don't believe in the death penalty. Do all of those people need to stand up and publicly profess their abhorrence to rape and murder according to your logic?

Well, I find it odd that you would expect such a qualifier, since the overwhelmingly vast majority of those with two or more neurons firing would subscribe to those beliefs, but here goes:

I think rape and murder are horrific.

Yes you can quote me.

Yes, I still believe the death penalty is wrong.

Call me crazy, but I live in a world where there's more than two options to many problems.

[woo me with science]

151. Don't pretend to be so stupid.

People were still asking at post 104 what the crimes were. The OP conveniently chose not to mention them at all.

Of course they matter. They define this "friend" (vomit) and the situation at hand, and the choice to omit them speaks volumes about the disingenuousness of the original post.

[MajorChode]

157. Stupid is as stupid does

When you stop asking for stupid qualifiers, I'll stop pointing out how stupid your expectations are. Fair enough?

The OP never once claimed or so much as implied this person was innocent other than to say the accused claimed innocence. No reasonable person would infer the nonsense you're alleging.

The only "volumes" revealed here are the same old tired bullshit ones about how those who speak ill of the death penalty must advocate murder and rape. If I want to hear that particular flavor of bullshit, I'll tune into either the fat junkie or Michael Wiener on talk radio. At least there's some measure of entertainment value there.

[woo me with science]

158. The major facts of the case are a "qualifier" to you?

Well, that explains a lot.

[MajorChode]

159. Do you think people go to death row for mistreating kittens?

Please continue. How far you're willing to go with this speaks volumes about your credibility.

[woo me with science]

161. I don't even choose people who mistreat kittens as my "friends."

Apparently you have a different set of standards, that even mentioning the crime elicits such defensiveness.

[MajorChode]

162. If at first you don't succeed....

First you came up with the ridiculous notion that everyone who speaks ill of the death penalty must publicly profess the horrific nature of rape and murder.

Then when you didn't get anywhere with that one....

Now each person who differs from your lock-step philosophy is 'defensive' if they don't mention the crime.

Keep building those strawmen.

Keep digging.

You are at least starting to get amusing, but I suspect that's not your intent.

[Th1onein]

177. I didn't "conveniently" choose not to mention them. Geez.

Give us all a break. We're not stupid.

[Evoman]

149. Jesus fucking christ.... that's like saying water is wet.

Why the hell would anybody NOT think it was horrific?! Why the hell can't we have a discussion without stating the fucking obvious.

[woo me with science]

152. Interesting

that you would prefer the obvious not be part of the discussion.

[MajorChode]

160. Keep going

Most who dig themselves into holes eventually have the sense to at least stop digging.

[Freddie Stubbs]

209. Actually, he killed his step-mother and pawned her wedding ring

[woo me with science]

137. My greatest compassion

to the victims and to the families of the victims of this monster.

[RiverStone]

138. And they are who is in the center of my remembrance as well...

[Ken Burch]

186. Death penalty opponents care about the victims and families as much as or more than any DA

The prosecutors only care about how many votes the case can get them when they run for attorney general or governor.

[cbc5g]

140. Sorry, I'm against the death penalty but I have no sympathy for him

He broke the social contract in the most sick and grievous way and knew the consequences even if those consequences are wrong which I think they are. BTW There's also something barbaric about keeping someone stripped of freedom until they die naturally. Remember, someone said "give me liberty or give me death". Obviously that person would agree with the death penalty.

[Iggo]

145. .

:hug:

[scrinmaster]

148. Well, he wouldn't be on death row if he hadn't raped and murdered people.

Hell, he should have stayed in prison after raping those two girls.

[Cid_B]

153. I feel sorry for you because...

... you shouldn't have to feel bad that such a scumbag is dying. Honestly, some folks just need killin. Im surprised by the tiny 5 year stay on death row as well.

[garybeck]

163. There are at least 4 reasons why the death penalty is wrong.

1. Two wrongs don't make a right.

2. Thou Shalt Not Kill. Hey rightwing Christians, could it be any clearer than that?

3. The method of killing that is usually administered by the death penalty is often less painful, quicker, and easier than what the victim suffered. A long difficult life in prison, followed by a natural death is a harsher sentence than the death penalty.

4. There are many documented cases where a person was given the death penalty and later found to be innocent by new evidence. If a single innocent person is put to death, and they have, the entire system is wrong.

[defendandprotect]

164. This is what the rise of the right brings with it -- violence and brutality ---

I'm sorry to hear that many here are for capital punishment ---

"Beward of those with a strong need to punish--"


... even if they're on the Supreme Court -- !!!

[orleans]

168. (what a thread--reading all the posts...wow)

i'm really sorry you are going through this--i can't imagine knowing/being friends with someone who was put to death--i'm sure it is incredibly hard for you. you have my sympathy :hug:

[MrSlayer]

169. I wonder if he gave his victim(s) the luxury of a nice peaceful death.

Somehow I doubt it.

[Name removed]

181. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

190. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken Burch]

191. If you call yourself "MrSlayer" and gloat about executions, it's perfectly reasonable to assume

you're right wing.

The OP didn't deserve the tone you took.

[MrSlayer]

192. I'm not gloating, I'm simply putting things in perspective.

We aren't talking about the death of MLK here. This was not a quality person. This was not someone you would have over your house for dinner. This wasn't a person you'd want within 1000' of your children.

I've bled for the Union movement and am as liberal as you can be on most social issues. Just being pro-DP doesn't negate the other 95%. Fuck man, I always end up to the left of Ghandi on those political belief tests. One issue does not define a person.

My nick is because I am an expert on the band, not because I'm a serial killer.

[Ken Burch]

193. Opposing the death penalty doesn't mean you think that those on Death Row are saints

or even innocent.

It simply means you think the state shouldn't be killing people.

You have your position, I and the OP each have ours.

But it's bullshit to act as though a person who opposes the death penalty doesn't care about the victims of violent crime.

On a completely unrelated note, if you're a Slayer fan, why do your posts have a picture of Lemmy Kilmeister in them?

[MrSlayer]

194. The Lemmy as Jesus pic is a transitional sig.

Slayer is my favorite band but Lemmy as Christ is certainly worthy of being my sig pic. He is on Metal's Mount Rushmore. I usually theme my sig pics and avatar to what I'm feeling most at the time. I had my Eagles stuff up but after they decided to play only one half of football I had to find something to hold the place until my next passion came along.

I'm not denying you or the OP your opinion at all. I just have an opposite opinion. We agree on that.

Fair enough on the victims point. I'm sure you feel as bad for them as you do for the killer being executed and that's where we part ways. I have no sympathy for unrepentant killers and rapists. I would happily pull the switch or swing the axe and sleep perfectly fine that night. Does that make me a horrible person? In light of the balance of my values, beliefs and actions, I think not. I'm sorry that I cannot feel sorrow at the death of the worst of the worst. My compassion only goes so far.

[LeftyMom]

174. I'm sorry.

And I'm really sorry the punishment fetishists are shitting on your request for comfort and sympathy. No matter what their politics, that's fucked up.

[Th1onein]

178. It's okay.

It's typical rightwing stupidity I kind of expected it. Comes with the territory.

[RiverStone]

223. Wrong. Rightwing stupidity is defining fellow DUers with one issue

What did you expect with an OP like yours? Asking people ahead of time to censure their comments never does well on DU. Secondly, many of us have passionate progressive beliefs but prefer to demonstrate more empathy and compassion for the victims of theses heinous crimes rather than the murderers.

Calling folks that disagree with your position RW stupid does exactly what your OP requested folks NOT to do - invite political debate. No wonder you got what you expected...

[Th1onein]

288. This is incorrect on so many fronts I'm not going to bother going into all of them.

eom

[Ken Burch]

187. In the old days, hangings were festive occasions, with picnics and brass bands

To read some of these posts, things haven't changed that much.

[Ken Burch]

180. I'm sorry for your loss, and I consider the death penalty to be a moral outrage.

n/t.

[shintao]

189. I am for the death penalty & 1 year prior torture for each victim the killed

I don't think the death penalty is justice, because the perpetrator took a life that wanted to live, or maybe two or more people who wanted to live before they catch him.

I want the sentence to be 1 year daily torture for each victim, followed on the 366th day with death. And add 1 year of torture for each extra death they take so justice can be served on the perpetrator, and the next day followed by death. I don't want these people remembered, burn them and throw their ashes in the garbage.

[Warren Stupidity]

200. Thankfully the constitution forbids your idiocy.

Are you lost?

[varkam]

201. They're not lost.

Have a gander through this thread.

[Th1onein]

217. Seek help. Quickly.

And, by the way? I think you might want to take your drivel to FR. I might be wrong, but I have a sneaking suspicion you might not quite fit in here on DU.

[DrCory]

196. While I share your anti-DP position...

How you can consider the beast in question a "friend" is beyond me. He is beneath contempt.

[Th1onein]

215. Whatsoever you do to these, the least of my little ones, you do unto me.

Ever heard that? Jesus Christ said it, and while I'm not a Christian, I do try to live by certain ideals. That's one of them.

And, yes, I am proud to claim Reginald Perkins as a friend. I'm not saying he was innocent; I WILL say, though, that there are some very big problems with the evidence presented at his trial, or rather, the lack of it.

No one, not one of us, is beneath deserving the love and friendship of another human being. Not Reginald Perkins, not George W. Bush, not one of us. I hope that I will always have the decency and the humility to reach out to the least among us. I can hate what this man did, or might have done, but I will NOT hate him.

[DrCory]

251. You're a better person than I it seems...

I cannot help but to believe that because of his actions, Perkins is not deserving of any love or friendship. But, I do now understand, and respect, your position.

[Th1onein]

276. I'm no better than you are....... HOWEVER

Although Perkins might not be "deserving" of friendship and love, it is what we call "mercy" to give it to him anyway. Especially when it costs one so very little. I am not asking his victim's family to show him mercy, but *I* can.

[THUNDER HANDS]

197. I support the death penalty, but I also think what you're doing

is a very nice thing.

[aikoaiko]

218. Well said.

[stlsaxman]

199. Murder done in our name.

We MUST change this.

[jmg257]

202. What did your friend do? nt

[LostinVA]

234. Four women murdered

[jmg257]

244. Lovely. RIP. nt

[AlCzervik]

260. i guess he believes in the death penalty at least 4 times over.

[grannie4peace]

204. i'm not! i was in huntsville this xmas

we talked about the prison. my church protests when we kill someone here in va's penal system. i hope your friend passes well. we do have the assurance he will be in a better place. i believe each soul whose live has been stolen will be bless by our Creator. he will be welcomed better than he was sent off. and i pray for your friend, he will feel all the prayers,so don't stop praying.that he has peace of mind throughout that he is welcomed by his love ones in joy:hug: :grouphug: :cry: :grouphug: :hug:

[GliderGuider]

216. In an execution, even the executioners die a little.

Such state sanctioned murder is inherently and irredeemably evil, and does enormous damage to those who support it.

There are now two unlawfully broken threads in the fabric of life rather than just one. My heart goes out to everyone involved -- the condemned man, the person who died, all those who knew either of them, everyone involved in the judgment and execution, and all those who opposed it. We are all spiritually poorer for this.

[Leftist Agitator]

220. Who did he hurt and/or kill?

That's with whom my sympathies lie.

EDIT: He killed his stepmother for $150? And rapes children?

GOOD FUCKING RIDDANCE!

A piece of shit like that deserves to die. Fuck him!

[Fireweed247]

222. Since I believe in reincarnation, I don't think the death penalty works

The man will be reborn with the same messed up soul.

Since it also costs more to execute someone, why don't they have them do something useful with the rest of their lifetime to give back to the community as well as some sort of soul searching rehabilitation like showing the victims of these types of crimes over and over 24-7 until he 'gets' what he has done.

How did this guy get out of prision to repeat his crimes? That is the real problem.

[Marrah_G]

226. I am generally against the death penalty

I have to say: I find the phenomenon of women seeking out rapists and murderers for friendship and love, devoting countless hours and finances, often oblivious to the horror of their crimes.

If you had a friend that was convicted of a crime like this and you thought they were innocent, I could almost understand. But women who seek these men out, over and over, they makes no sense to me.

I am not trying to be insulting, I just do not get you and others like you.

[JuniperLea]

231. I thought it was a personal friend when I first read this thread

I have to agree with you on this... I don't get it either.

I have a friend who teaches illiterate inmates to read... men and women. She gets book donations from local libraries and individuals, but she never spends her own money, other than paying for the gas to get there. But these are inmates who will eventually get out, and she feels this is rehabilitation of an individual who has gone astray but will re-enter society at some point. Making friends and showing human kindness is a good thing. But now I'm wondering.

[babythunder]

247. You took the words out of

my mouth! I thought to myself why would a person write to a death row inmate that they've never met before nor do they have any other personal connection with.

Why not write to a sick orphan or a senior citizen? There's a ton of non-murders/rapists who could use a friend.

I wonder why you would seek out this type of person what draws to this type of a person?

[Th1onein]

287. We're not "seeking out rapists and murderers for friendship and love."

How idiotic. I have repeatedly said, in this thread, that I do this because I feel a moral obligation to do it. I'm not "looking for love" and I although anyone can do with more friends, I'm not lacking in that area, either. I do it because I feel that it is the RIGHT and MORAL thing to do. Period.

[LostinVA]

232. He killed at least four women in two separate crimes -- DNA evidence WAS used

Even though a post upthread says it wasn't.

I am 100% anti DP and don't believe he should be executed today. However, after reading about the case, I do think he should have rotted away in prison until his sociopathic body died a natural death. I'm not naive -- I'm a cynic about law enforcement, but the evidence seems pretty sown up in this case, and it wasn't one isolated incident -- it was several over at least 17 years. Hopefully, he didn't kill or rape anyone else.

[Nye Bevan]

235. I am opposed to the death penalty

This guy should simply be locked in a 10 foot by 10 foot cell for the rest of his life with no chance of parole.

No drama. No endless appeals costing hundreds of thousands of dollars. No protests, no appeals for clemency, interventions by the Pope, midnight Supreme Court motions, pro-versus-anti-DP threads on DU, etc.

Just let him rot for the rest of his natural life to think about what he did, and to prevent him from ever doing it again.

[LostinVA]

238. +1

[LostinVA]

236. I sincerely hope no poster actually has empathy for this guy

Because, that would make you murderers and rapists. Empathy is IDing with them on a literal level. Now, having compassion is a different.

[varkam]

261. You're not trying to call people you disagree with rapists and murderers by playing a game...

...of semantics, are you?

[shrike]

237. I knew a reporter with a prison beat.

She got to know the death row prisoners. Their executions were always hard on her, even though she knew the details of their crimes and that they were guilty.

Even the worst human being is not bad all the time. Even death row prisoners have their moments of normalcy. You do get to see them as people.

I'm remembering the movie "Monsters Ball." Even though none of the guards were anti-death penalty, they were dealing with these guys on a day to day basis. Heath Ledger's character got sick the first time one of "his" prisoners was executed. His father, Billy Bob Thornton, was furious at him because he believed each of one of the men deserved a dignified walk to execution chamber.

[Caliman73]

240. I don't believe in the death penalty either.

I understand the human desire for revenge, but to call killing by the state justice, and killing by individuals a crime is just hypocrisy. We have an effective way of protecting ourselves from dangerous criminals. Imprisonment without parole serves the purpose and does so with less costs than trying to put someone to death. It allows people to feel safe, it punishes the criminal by limiting their freedoms, and it allows for remediation in the case of the many innocent people who are convicted later to have that sentence revoked due to new evidence. What it doesn't do is satisfy our desire for revenge.

If the man is guilty as described in the article, then he should be separated from society, but killing him is not the mark of a civil society.

I am sorry that you are suffering this loss. This is tragic on all levels.

[TWiley]

241. What was his Crime? Does he have dead victims?

Just curious. To be honest, I really dont care if they off the really bad criminals. My opposition to the death penality is that it is unfairly administered to minority defendants, and there is a long sad history of the legal system screwing up, or even framing people.

But, if they are truly guilty of a horrendous crime .... then by all means .... throw the switch.

[mitchum]

250. "Reginald Perkins" Google that raping and murdering dirtbag's name

[Statistical]

254. Yes they would be "truly horrendous crimes"

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-perkins_22met.ART.East.Edition1.4ee2f40.html

Summary

Raped 2 12 year old girls - 1982
Suspect (not proven) of murder of 2 women - 1982
Strangled 2 women in their apt - 1991
Murdered his step mother - 2000

He was last paroled in 2000 (evidence of his other murders did not come up until he was already on death row)

He killed his own mother less than 10 months after being paroled despite the fact that she looked after him, helped him start a business and bought a dump truck for his business.

He is an animal. I don't feel bad that he was put down. He went a lot more peacefully then his victims did.

[TWiley]

281. What the Fuck is the O.P. whining about then?

Society is better of without this dirtbag son of a bitch. If you have any more "friends" like this, then I hope the get executed also.

[Naturyl]

255. He forfeited his status as "human being" in my mind.

Based on his crimes, my view is that an animal is being put to death. Call me cruel if you have to (and I know some of you can't resist), but when you rape and murder, you forfeit the right to be considered a human being by me.

I'm ambivalent about the death penalty as a measure of justice for numerous reasons, but I don't care a whit what happens to this individual.

[depakid]

267. Why is it that southerners always seem so insistent on dehumanizing?

What is it about the culture of the region that encourages this?

[Ken Burch]

270. A twisted variant of the universal wish to not be "lower than everyone else".

It appears in all of us, but(and I say this as someone with Southern roots on my father's side, as his family only moved west from Tennessee in 1910 or so) I think it comes out in that region particularly as an obssession with having somebody to hate and look down on, some to think of as less than oneself. This had a lot to do with getting poor Southern whites, people who'd never benefited in the slightest from slavery, to hate blacks as much as former slaveowners did. To totally avoid bashing one region and absolving all others, this hatred was also adopted by later immigrants, such as the Irish, Italians and Slavs (groups that had never held racist feelings in 'the old country'), in order to prove they were now "Real Americans". And the fact that this kept those groups from uniting with the people who would have been their natural allies in the class struggle was, for the rich, a "happy accident" to say the least, and an institutionally encouraged mindshift to say the most.

[depakid]

274. My family all hails from the South- so I'm sincerely curious

because I've heard this soret of deal a LOT from them- and from a good many otherwise educated people when I visit.

I think you're right- it does harken back to Jim Crow, slavery and the treatment of Native Americans- particularly the Cherokeee and the Seminole.

The deal is that I hear whole lot less of this on the West Coast- and alomst none of it in Australia- though doubtlessly the loathing of horrific crimes is the same.

Perhaps its just easier to call humans animals than to accept that the human animal is capable of much greater "evil" than most any wild thing on the planet....

[Ken Burch]

286. Or maybe its easier to hate someone you think is beneath you

Than find common ground with all the others who are as down and out as you in standing against the ones ABOVE you, the ones who are actually responsible for your problems.

[Jack_DeLeon]

256. His own actions put him there....

We all make choices in this life, and he choose poorly.

[mzmolly]

257. I am opposed to the DP, but have mixed feelings after reading about his crime.

He's a convicted rapist who was on parole when he murdered several women. I am sorry to say that I don't feel that all who share human features are "human".

That said, your act of friendship to him was very kind. He probably had no one. And, I'm very sorry for your loss Th1onein. I wish I had your compassion.

Peace to you in this difficult time.

[littlebit]

263. As a native Texan I am very much for the

death penalty. I say good riddance. At least he knew he was going to die. I have absolutely no sympathy for him.

[depakid]

275. Texas sure did a fine job on this case:

From LBN: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3704615

Gotta have that pound of flesh- even if the person executed is a juvenile- or mentally ill- or retarded- and even if it means the real perpetrator remains on the streets, free to commit more crimes!

[LostinVA]

285. This is a different person -- the OP is about Reginald Perkins

[Name removed]

272. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[varkam]

273. New shooter! New shooter coming out!

Welcome to DU?

[Shakespeare]

279. I could not (and would not) do what you do, but I do admire your compassion.

This is a fascinating thread to read, and both sides have good and valid points. All I will add is that for those who believe compassion is a necessary human action, it's much harder to show compassion to those who have done nothing to deserve it. Considering the implications of that is rich fodder for meditation, for those of us for whom such a thing matters.

[Belial]

282. Sorry for you. Glad for the families.. the waiting is over.

[Clio the Leo]

292. Death of the perpetrator does not end the pain...

... or cause the grief to stop. It only takes another life, thereby reducing us to the same level.

Trust me.

[Clio the Leo]

291. How can any self-respecting liberal be in favor of the death penalty?

I dont get it. I realize we dont have unity of thought and all ...... but sheesh. WE are the ones are supposed to not think with 17th century mentalities and, despite the claim by the other guys, truly support the sactity of life and the right TO that life.

What a puzzlement.

My cousin was murdered by a forced drowning and another friend burned alive when a jet liner crashed into her office, so I fully appreciate the the perpective of the innocent victim.

As with the case of my friend, her killers died with her ... and that doesn't make her any less dead or the pain of her loss any easier. I dont feel any better about the death of my friend than I do about the death of my cousin who's killer is still alive today.

And that doesn't even begin to address the fact that I cannot justify the death penality against the basic tennants of my Christian faith.