The "pro-life" crowd was everywhere in downtown DC today, and it was appalling.

[Faygo Kid]

I work in downtown DC, and it was hard to get through the streets at lunchtime for the crowds. Most of them (certainly not all) were teens, it appeared, with in-your-face signs like "Abortion is Murder" and pictures of aborted fetuses. Many carried anti-Obama signs, as well. The kids were there as if on a field trip, but I wonder at what they could possibly be thinking carrying such signs. The adults were worse, of course. One tried to talk to me, but I quickly and politely disabused her of the notion that I had any desire to impose my decisions on women of child bearing age.

It's an annual event, and so I have seen it before, but I don't recall so many militantly ugly signs being displayed. Over the top, in your face, and I guarantee they changed no minds with such tactics.

Still, it was deflating to see young people with such ugly signs, after we have seen so many so joyous in the past year.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

50. Deleted sub-thread

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[NeedleCast]

64. So are all protesters terrorists

or just the ones you disagree with?

[spoony]

67. They are protesters, not terrorists

I think we've had enough reckless use of the word "terrorists" in the last eight years--how many dead by the misapplication of that word?--and it's just as slimy when you do it as when Bush does. Not liking a group of people or their religion is not sufficient to call them terrorists, no matter who.

[Malikshah]

76. Inciting violence. Anti-war protestors do not incite violence. Anti-choice protestors do.

It is as simple as that.

[spoony]

77. Not "as simple as that"

You're going to have to prove what you're saying when you talk to me. I'm going to need to see examples, and not just a few examples but enough to prove the sweeping statement that "anti-choice protesters do".

[Malikshah]

81. Anti war protestors do not lead to people bombing military installations in the current

day, nor picking off soldiers at home or at work.

Nor do they lead to military officials having health problems.

Anti-choice protestors do incite these sorts of activities.

Own it and deal. Anti-choice protestor supporters need to own their own shit.

[liberalhistorian]

92. That's bullshit and you know it.

There have been time when anti-war protests and leaders have gotten out of hand and given the wrong ideas to unbalanced or too-militant people. And there are plenty of protests, marches and speeches by those against freedom of choice for abortion that have NOT been inciteful or led to violence, just groups of people expressing their feelings and opinions, as they have the right to do. You are equating all pro-lifers with the militants who bomb clinics and shoot doctors, which is wrong. It's just as wrong as those who equate all anti-war protesters or environmentalists with those militants who bomb animal or military research centers, etc. Unless you really only believe that freedom of speech applies only to those you agree with. That is wrong and un-American, not to mention unbelievably hypocritical.

[Malikshah]

118. It is not bullshit-- I am referring to the current day. History reveals that there are

no absolutes. But in the current day-- the recent protests against the war did not incite violence against our military in the US.

The anti-choice brigade does. They need to own that as do all who support their attacks on women as a whole.

[baldguy]

2. If they're not protesting Bush, the GOP & the wars, they're not "pro-life".

At best they're nosy, anti-privacy terrorists.

[pleah]

54. Bingo!

;-)

[NMDemDist2]

3. Jesus Camp alums

that was one scary ass movie and sounds like some of their chit

[John Q. Citizen]

4. It's the aniversary of Roe v Wade. I was there in 92 during the 20th aniversity

(i think it was 92) and ended up doing clinic defense during the main weekend influx of anti-choice people.

That was an eye opener.

[ShortnFiery]

5. Yes, sadly I have a couple friends who participated.

They asked me if I would like to participate in "The March for Life" next year and I responded with a curt "NO!"

For the life of me I don't understand the mindset ... even with people who I have befriended. :(

[peace13]

6. Yes, my very Catholic friend informed me.......

that Obama's Inauguration had forced the Pro Life demonstration to be pushed back on the calendar. And yes, her High Schooler daughter would be one of those sweet young things that you saw today.

[Faygo Kid]

7. Sad. Normal looking kids carrying hate-filled signs.

Few if any minorities, I noted.

[ShortnFiery]

82. Forget the kids, those Priests and Bishops are "real tough" when they intimidate teen age girls.

How cowardly of them to take what is "a no brainer" and "holier than thou" stand but wouldn't CONSIDER mercy for those who are about to be MURDERED (executed) by the State. Why? THEY get to judge what is "innocent" life. :thumbsdown:

[MellowDem]

83. Uhh, minorities?

Is abortion now a black and white issue too? Or do you see race everywhere? And what's a "normal" looking kid? A white kid? According to you, I guess so. :silly:

Also, how is a sign saying "Abortion is Murder" hate-filled? It is an opinion, that's for sure.

[liberalhistorian]

95. It's not hate-filled, but because it doesn't agree

with them, I guess they consider it to be so. Maybe people are only allowed to express opinions that agree with them. If so, that's about as un-American as you can get.

[Kerrytravelers]

8. I always question these "aborted fetuses" pictures.

How do we really know what that is a picture of? This could have been a dead fetus that was removed because it had no potential for life. I've seen these pictures and I, quite frankly, don't give it any creedence since I have no way of confirming the accuracy of their claim of what the image is actually.

I put nothing past these people. They are devoid of common sense and basic decency. If they really cared, the way they so claim, then they would also support sensible sex education in schools, a social safety net for women and couples who find themselves with an unintended pregnancy and no money to support themselves, and they would also support health care for all since all "babies" need prenatal care. Yet, they oppose everything I've listed. Therefore, they are hypocrits who are too immature and uninformed to engage.

I am sorry you had to deal with these cockroaches today. What a drag.

[peace13]

11. When we got off the metro at Union Station on Monday,

we were met with those signs. People were packed shoulder to shoulder trying to leave the station and those folks were wagging their signs in our faces. I felt bad for anyone there with young children.

[bunkerbuster1]

9. Can we declare these people enemy combatants now?

[leftyclimber]

10. We had a whole one protestor in Morgantown this morning.

I flipped her off, but only because I couldn't get my car window down to yell at her before the light changed.

Sorry you were so overrun. :puke:

edit: smiley typo

[ikojo]

12. I have a friend who is progressive on almost every

issue but does not support abortion. At this time she would not attend a "pro life" march but she is anti abortion and anti choice, just not militantly so. For her it is a well thought out moral issue, a result of a family event.

Some of the so called pro life people may also be like my friend, progressive on other issues. Just as there are some on this board who do not like or support unions, so too are there people who cannot support abortion.

[Faygo Kid]

14. I won't make that decision for another. I faced it a long time ago.

My ex and I were faced with that many, many years ago. She was just 19, and I was a couple years older. We made the decision to have the baby (of course, the ultimate choice was hers). My daughter is now in her 30s, and we do not regret for a minute having had her.

But the point is it was OUR CHOICE (again, ultimately HER choice), and we were married a long time and raised her together through high school. Choice is what it's all about. I spend more time worrying about those already born than about making that kind of decision for someone else.

[JuniperLea]

17. My 30 year old son was born when I was 21

I made the appointment, sat in the waiting room, laid down on the table, and when the doctor came in, I told him I had changed my mind and I was having the baby. He got really pissed! It freaked me out.

The kid is a chemical engineer now, and as precious as any human I've ever known.

To this day I hate abortion. I really hate the idea. But what I hate even more is my government telling me and other women what we can or cannot do with our bodies and our lives.

It was my choice, and I'm so glad I had the choice.

When I was sixteen, my best friend was raped by her uncle. She had an abortion, and we all knew it was the right thing to do. She thought about putting the baby up for adoption, but the thought of carrying her uncle's child all those months with her heart filled with hatred was just too much. She decided a baby should not be grown in eutero with a mother having all those horrific feelings going on. It was the right decision for her.

Every pregnancy has a story, and each one is unique. To put a broad-brush law into effect outlawing abortion is just wrong. No one law can cover all the various stories and reasons a woman would choose to do this very difficult thing. And if a woman is so callous that she is using abortion as birth control, I have to question whether this woman would be a good parent.

[Faygo Kid]

22. Great post. Thanks so much for sharing this personal story.

Thanks for that. And I see from another reply to me that Boomers Rule.

[liberalhistorian]

100. Thank you for that, and you are so correct.

I, too, faced that choice eighteen years ago. My fiance had thrown me out of the house, I had just graduated from college but had no job and no money as of yet. Even though I was, and remain, pro-choice, I knew that I could not personally emotionally handle an abortion. That's one of the reasons I was afraid to go home, because I knew my parents would try to get me to have an abortion. I slept in my car that first night, then realized I had to go home, I had no other place to go.

They did, indeed, try to get me to have an abortion, although my mother was much more understanding of the fact that it was my choice and that I had the right to make that, no matter what it was, than my dad was. For an agonizing two weeks, I tried to decide what to do. I knew no matter what I decided that it would be permanent, there was no "un-doing" of an abortion once it was done no matter how many regrets I may have later had, and there was no going back and having one after a certain point in the pregnancy. And, I have to be honest, neither side really was of all that much help during that time. They both converged on me trying to get me to see the virtues and benefits of THEIR beliefs and THEIR side without recognizing that I was an individual person with feelings and needs, not a symbol or slogan, and that whatever decision I made would greatly affect MY life and not theirs. They could go back to their slogans and symbols and marches, rallies and activism, and their own lives, afterwards without having to give me, or any other woman, nary a thought.

I finally gave in to the pressure from mainly my father, made an appointment, and my mother took me to the clinic. I just couldn't go through with it, however. Before deciding I couldn't do it, I told the nurse to stand in front of the ultrasound screen because I couldn't handle seeing it on the screen. I got up and left the clinic and ultimately decided to continue the pregnancy and keep the baby. My son is now coming up on his eighteenth birthday and I cannot imagine my life without him. As it turns out, he is also the only child I will ever be able to have, for physical reasons. I thought I'd get married and have more children the "right" way (whatever that really is), but it didn't work out that way. By the time I did get married last year, I'd had to have a complete hysterectomy five years previously.

I frankly caught a lot of flak from a lot of pro-choicers I knew and, being pro-choice myself my family and I knew a lot of them, because they just didn't understand. None had ever actually BEEN pregnant, so they really didn't understand. It was not a matter of just having a "procedure" as the clinic called it, and then going merrily on my way without a care in the world. At least, for me it wasn't. And that's the point. I made the choice that was best for me. Other women may have and have made different choices, and that's fine. It is not a broad-brush issue, the circumstances of each pregnancy is different and each woman is different. I don't use my experience to insist that pregnant women now make the same choice I did, and I don't appreciate it when others from BOTH SIDES do it. I was glad I had the choice available, unlike too many other women in times past. That doesn't mean that I take it lightly, though, and I respect those who may feel differently.

[Hansel]

105. My 34 year old daughter was born when I was 20

I'm sorry for your experience. Similar to you, I made the appointment, sat in the waiting room, but then spent 30 minutes with a very wonderful counselor who was there to support me no matter what my decision. She talked me through it and I decided not to have the abortion. She referred me to a center for unwed mothers for more support.

A few years later I became pregnant while using the Copper 7 inter-uterine device. I asked the doctor to remove it because I was afraid it would injure the baby. He was a Catholic and refused because it might cause a spontaneous abortion and anyway, he said, he couldn't find it. A few weeks later I started bleeding and went back. He said I had my period. I went to another doctor, who also happened to be Catholic. He also said I had my period. I knew they were lying and that the baby was dead. I could smell it. But neither one wanted to do the abortion.

The next day I doubled over in pain and started bleeding harder. My neighbor came over and said "that is enough, I'm taking you to Planned Parenthood." I went there and they rushed me in to the room. I was over 5 months along but she did the abortion anyway because she knew that if she let me leave and I went to the hospital that they would wait until I was dying to do the abortion. That would have been too late. She determined that the baby was dead and asked why the doctor had not remove the IUD. I told her that he couldn't find it. She said "of course he couldn't find it, it was right where it was supposed to be."

They did the abortion under local anesthesia. It was the most horrible thing I ever went through in my life. The baby was decomposing and I had an infection as a result. The pain was unbelievable. I passed out 2 times and was awoken both so that I wouldn't go into shock. I ended up in the hospital where I stayed for 2 weeks because of the infection.

Abortion must be kept legal and available. And it must be left up to the woman whether or not it is right for her. These people are profoundly naive and I have no patience for them.

[Number23]

108. Good Lord, what a story. Thank you for sharing this

I am anti-abortion but not anti-choice, if that makes any sense. I think abortion is terrible for everyone, but I understand and respect the decision of those that have had to endure them.

Thank God you had a friend who was able to take you to a place where they actually gave a damn about your life as WELL as that of your baby's to do what was needed.

[fudge stripe cookays]

111. "Endure" is not always the right word.

It was the best choice for me. I had just gotten back to school, and it allowed me to finish and get my BA. If I hadn't, my husband and I would be eating cat food right now in this economy, because neither of us would have a decent career. As it is, I make $58,000 a year. It was a medical procedure. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now the miscarriage I had three years later was fucking horrible and painful and never-ending. THAT I endured. If I had to make a choice between one and the other, I'd pick the abortion again in a minute.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

114. "...a result of a family event."

Her personal experience is not applicable to everyone else.

The people on this board who don't support unions can also fuck off.

[Ex Lurker]

121. then she's not a progressive n/t

[NeedleCast]

13. Man, you aint kidding

You know, I've been advocating for free speech here on DU all day, but these wingers make it hard sometimes. Packing my subway with dipshittery. Some little girl accosted me on the way home asking if I wanted a pro-life button. I politely refused because she was a little girl no doubt indoctrinated by mommy. She ran back to her mom and I guess mentioned that I had refused a button as mommy spent the rest of the ride glaring daggers at me.

Well, tough shit for them thought, we won. Roe V Wade sticks.

[KamaAina]

15. Did they fill up the Ellipse with those tacky little cardboard crosses?

Once, during the first (elected) Bush administration, I had the distinct pleasure (?) of being in DC for the Roe anniversary. The anti's filled the Ellipse with hundreds of tacky little crosses (nary a Star of David, dharma wheel, or FSM forbid, crescent was in evidence) representing all those murdered feti. :sarcasm:

Two of my female companions cajoled me into joining them for some civil disobedience inside the "cemetery". Soon the National Park Police glorified park rangers showed up. They approached from my side -- and proceeded to step right over me and threaten the two women with arrest! :wtf:

[dsc]

16. I take it that for many people in this thread

free speech is for me but not for thee. They have every earthly right to protest and to carry signs and it is appalling to hear things like lets arrest them or they are terrorists. It wasn't all that long ago we had an administration which favored zones for free speech, I thought our party believed otherwise.

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. They can do what they want, however I think children do not need to have those images

forced upon them. My kids were stuck in a car in traffic once near a protest like that. What about their right to remain innocent and not have nightmares from scary pictures? :(

[dsc]

19. and what about right wing children's right not to see gay people

or women in tank tops, or whatever else the right finds offensive? See my point.

[JuniperLea]

21. What does a gay person look like? eom

[dsc]

23. Ok two guys holding hands or kissing

is that better?

[JuniperLea]

25. I would think the RWers would use it as a learning tool

For their hate.

[GreenPartyVoter]

28. There's a slight difference between a tube top and a bloody gory picture, which

right-wing toddlers might also find scary. Just saying.

[dsc]

30. tell that to people who rate movies

It takes a heck of a lot of violence to get an R rating while virtually any sex between two people of the same gender will get an R fast. It really is in the eye of the beholder which is why we need free speech not psuedo free speech.

[onenote]

51. If it was a anti war protest and a picture of a dead iraqi child

would you take the same position?

[JuniperLea]

20. Think about it

How long would a peace march last if the marchers were carrying signs showing heinous and bloody death?

I don't see anyone here saying those people don't have the right to speak their minds. What I'm seeing is a lot of people who have valid disagreements with the protesters.

It has never been determined on a scientific basis when life becomes life. May religious people have decided what they want to believe. That is fine too. There are no thought police and they have the right to think whatever they choose. What I have a problem with is using a religious belief to force others to comply with one's choice in belief.

[dsc]

24. One poster said "let's call them enemy combatants" another called them "christian terrorists"

and I have seen peace demonstrations that had photos and no one got attacked. I am not arguing the merits of their case but I am saying that free speech is either for everyone or it isn't really free.

[Sparkly]

27. They're free to do it, and others are free to say it's disgusting.

And free to say they disapprove.

[JuniperLea]

31. And the anti-choice crowd call us murderers...

Calling them names isn't saying they don't have a right to their beliefs or their speech.

[dsc]

36. enemy combatants

are you kidding me? You really don't think that is a term that has a specific meaning?

[NutmegYankee]

38. Yeah - Abortion Clinic Bomber terrorists

:evilgrin: Not Sarcasm.

[JuniperLea]

40. Killing in the name of God... righteous!

Sort of like killing people to show how wrong it is to kill people... aka war.

[dsc]

42. these people bombed nothing

that is exactly and precisely the same as banning all protests of the VietNam war because a few people blew up buildings. It is the same damn thing.

[NutmegYankee]

46. I have one word to reply to that - YET

[spoony]

52. That's the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT BUSHIES USED

to hold people in Gitmo, shoot them, keep them off planes, etc. What the hell is wrong with some of you?

[NutmegYankee]

85. We live in reality!

Stop yelling and learn to understand sarcasm. Yeesh.

[JuniperLea]

39. Oh please

It doesn't mean they feel those people don't have the right to speak their minds, it just means what is coming out of their mouths is bullshit that requires a hard retort. Show me one definition wherein that phrase means the utterer is saying this person has no right to speak.

[dsc]

43. try the Bush administration who coined the term

people who were declared enemy combatants by them went to Gitmo. did you sleepwalk through the last 8 years?

[JuniperLea]

48. My but you stretch... eom

[spoony]

56. Words mean things. n/t

[JuniperLea]

58. Yes they do

And it's up to us NOT to add bovine excrement to them.

[spoony]

68. Please note I'm not even saying that it was meant literally

It is another issue entirely if it was meant literally or as a snark, the point is that the term is a loaded one and it's disingenuous to deny that. I assure you it wasn't bovine excrement to the people labeled enemy combatants in the last few years. It's a way of dehumanising an opponent, just the same as calling them a terrorist. It means they don't have rights, and that whatever happens to them they deserve it.

[gollygee]

70. It's being said by people who have no ability to take away rights

People have a right to call people whatever they want, including terrorist and whatever. And other people, like you, have a right to call them out on that. But the freedom of speech includes the freedom to call people things like "terrorist" and "enemy combatant". Though I think that's over the top. So long as they don't have the ability and aren't trying to actually put them in some prison or another (seeing as Gitmo is now out) it's still covered by the freedom of speech.

[spoony]

72. It's not a matter of rights. I never said they have no right to say such

nonsense. The issue is the meanings of these words. If a klansman without arms says the n-word, his inability to physically lynch anyone does not make his usage less harmful or offensive. He has the right, though, and that's not at all what I'm talking about.

[gollygee]

74. Ah, I misunderstood you

I thought you were saying they didn't or shouldn't have a right to say that. I do think the use of the terms "terrorist" and "enemy combatant" for anti-abortion protestors is way over the top, and it reminds me of right-wingers calling people who disagree with them about something those terms.

[JuniperLea]

73. Terrorists should have rights

Like the right to an expedient trial, to not be tortured, etc. Protesters have rights too. What people don't have is the right to force their own beliefs upon others, or insist that laws be changed based on their own beliefs.

[spoony]

75. That can be said about ANY protester

Do protesters not try to persuade by their presence? Even pressure government? And anytime we want a law changed, is it not because of what we believe? You can argue about merit of belief, etc, but what you've said can be applied to any protester.

[JuniperLea]

78. Indeed

So, someone on DU calling them a terrorist is akin to them calling pro-choicers murderers. Perspective is everything.

[Zywiec]

33. Thanks for your posts. Do we really think President Obama

would consider these people enemy combatants or Christian terrorists?

Is President Obama not Liberal enough or not Progressive enough to only think that they are American citizens enjoying their rights?

[seemunkee]

26. Saw them on the Metro on my way home

A bunch had stickers on their jackets that said Life Ho, which I thought was kind of weird.

[jmj217]

41. It's not weird...

just a throw back to the old Thunder Cats cartoon. Remember? I'm starting to feel old.

[Deja Q]

29. If they really want to talk about pro-life, quality of life, et cetera...

Hey, who the hell is pro-abortion? It's a no-win situation. Be most "pro-lifers" think of the fetus. Not the mother. Not the offspring's future. Will there be a future if the factors influencing the economy continue? ;)

[kenny blankenship]

32. And that's why I carry mace.

[onenote]

53. you carry mace to respond to people who carry signs?

Hmmm...

[jmj217]

34. Agree and Disagree

I was in DC and saw the protests. I agree that their tactics were way over the top and really futile. They will never change any minds with their form of "discussion".

I do however agree that abortion should be more strictly regulated than it is now. Abortion should be only used under the direst circumstances where the mother's life is in jeopardy and cases of rape.

I my mind the issue is not about religion or politics...it's about responsibility. It's a well known fact that a possible side effect of heterosexual sex is pregnancy. Anyone that engages in the act (even while utilizing all known forms of birth control simultaneously) should understand that there is some risk of pregnancy. When a person takes a risk they should be willing to live with all possible outcomes. It is important to hold all people accountable for their decisions.

I also support aid for parents that are unable to afford such pregnancies financially. I believe it is part of the social contract that we should help unprepared parents provide for the basic needs of their children (i.e. health care, nutrition, and education until child is 18 or the parents can afford to support the child).

I support sexual education that promotes contraception and abstinence. The education should provide all available options for pregnancy and STD protection. It should also provide accurate statistics for the reliability of each method (Many adults should also do some research on this particular topic by consulting a statistics text and the CDC reports on STD prevalence and the reliability of techniques used to prevent STD transmission...it will probably scare the hell out of you.)

I support use of emergency contraception (the morning after pill).

I don't think that restricting abortion curtails a woman's right to choose...especially with all of the available methods for preventing pregnancy (Abstinence, birth control pills, condoms, OTC emergency contraception, etc). Once someone makes the decision to engage in sexual intercourse they have accepted pregnancy as a possible outcome and must be prepared to deal with the consequences of their actions (both the man and woman involved). Society must be willing to protect the unborn child (in my opinion the most vulnerable citizen) and willing to help support the unprepared mother.

I've seen the results of an abortion. The pictures that have been used in protests are pretty accurate. It really is that horrible. The ultimate outcome of a woman being forced to bear a child without education or support is equally horrible. We should be protesting both sides but it seems that the debate is mired in dogma and fear (Not just for Republicans but us as well).

Men and Women should have the right to choose when they are ready for sexual intercourse. Once they have made their choice they should deal with the outcome of that choice and we should all be there to support them.

[noiretextatique]

104. you don't think restricting abortion limits a woman's choice?

"sex as punishment for women" is a nifty idea, but where is the accompanying punishment for men?
tell you what: you restrict abortion, and i'll support castration. that way everyone gets punished.
:sarcasm:

[fudge stripe cookays]

113. And when your birth control fails?

And you get a pharmacist who refuses to dispense emergency contraception...what then, oh sanctimonious one? I see you've refused to give us your gender. So I'm going to take that to mean that you're another man who thinks he has a choice in the decision.

[muntrv]

35. My condo is across the street from Planned Parenthood, so I see these

pro-fetus assclowns frequently.

[mmonk]

37. Send the hypocrites a bunch of dismembered and blown up bodies

in Iraq along with torture pictures.

[ZombieHorde]

44. Nice to see young people involved in politics. nt

[devilgrrl]

45. What are they upset about? The Republics never outlawed abortion. They say that to get votes.

That needs to be pointed out repeatedly.

[JuniperLea]

49. Exactly!

The Republicans have had every chance over the past 12 years to make that change, but they did not. Why? Because abortion is more valuable to them as an emotional hook to keep the brain-dead masses whipped to a froth. I say brain-dead, because they are too stupid to realize they are being played like a fiddle. The Republicans trot out the abortion and the immigration issues at the beginning of every election cycle to rile their base up. The rest of the time we rarely hear about those issues at all. They have no intention of changing anything! They desperately need these few emotional cattle prods to make sure their base walks lock-step with the rest of the agenda.

[mitchum]

62. Yes, but by their very nature, the skygod believers have already proven their gullibility

it's not hard for the republicans to keep leading them on and on and on....

[spoony]

69. One of them is now your President

And he disproves your infantile stereotyping.

[mitchum]

80. Well, he says that he is a CHRISTOBATER, but all politicians lie

[bulloney]

63. What you said, devilgrrl.

To those protesters holding the anti-Obama signs, I say to you: You're STILL campaigning to overturn Roe v. Wade? I thought you had YOUR president, YOUR congress and YOUR SCOTUS. You had your ducks lined up to overturn the decision, but they didn't. Why do you suppose that is?

Could it be that Bush and those so-called pro-life candidates for Congress were just playing you like a fiddle in order to get your contributions and your vote? There was never even a serious attempt to overturn Roe v. Wade. And you continue to play their game and they're laughing all the way to the bank.

[AngryOldDem]

65. But they will still persist in seeing the GOP as their savior.

They insist that all that's needed is a strong GOP president who will appoint Supreme Court justices who will do "what's right." Yet, when you point out that most SC appointments have been made by Republicans, they have no answer. All they do is go back to their rant that "All we need is a good GOP president..." blah blah blah.

It's insane.

The GOP has done squat for the pro-life movement.

[catzies]

47. They're not pro-life if they're pro-war. That dog won't hunt.

I love abortion threads: I always get new additions to my ignore list, and I can't help but notice how many posters I already had on ignore are in abortion threads. Buncha friggin misogynistic trolls.

[Vinca]

55. Strange how most of the pro-lifers are anti-universal healthcare. nt

[ismnotwasm]

57. My abortion wasn't murder.

It was my choice.

And nobody's business but my own. If I choose to disclose I had such a procedure, that's also my business.

Time to re post this again, I found it here on DU, and it needs to be reposted now and again;
The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"

When the Anti-Choice Choose

By Joyce Arthur

Copyright © September, 2000

"Abortion is a highly personal decision that many women are sure they'll never have to think about until they're suddenly faced with an unexpected pregnancy. But this can happen to anyone, including women who are strongly anti-choice. So what does an anti-choice woman do when she experiences an unwanted pregnancy herself? Often, she will grin and bear it, so to speak, but frequently, she opts for the solution she would deny to other women -- abortion."


http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

[mitchum]

59. Onward, Christian Whiners! May they all soon be with their precious lord

[spoony]

71. There's still time to change your username to "super bigot"

[mitchum]

79. You people are just confusing...isn't your fondest wish to be with your precious lord...

after leaving this life?
I'm just wishing your ilk...uh...god...speed.
What the fuck is bigoted about that?
Fucking hypocritical christobaters

[MellowDem]

86. Hmmm...

You people...

Your ilk...

Debasing and being sarcastic about deep held beliefs of a whole world of diverse people...

Yeah, it's bigotry. Feel better? I think you would fit right in with "fucking hypocritical christobaters"

[mitchum]

87. Nothing hypocritical about me at all...

I never said that I did not mock people for silly beliefs

Try again, Sparky

[MellowDem]

93. You're supposedly a liberal...

who likes to mock people's beliefs. That is in and of itself hypocritical.

Mocking people's beliefs shows intolerance. Intolerance is not liberal. You are not tolerant.

Respectfully disagreeing shows tolerance. You should learn tolerance. Lots of liberals that support your position on abortion are Christians. Feel like mocking your allies? The people who can help change other Christian's beliefs on abortion?

[mitchum]

109. I'm no fucking liberal; I'm a Leftist

You oh-so-accomodating "liberals" are part of the problem, sucker.

[MellowDem]

119. Like I said...

you fit right in with your extremist brethren on the right. An extremist is an extremist.

[Fearless]

60. I think they showed up a little bit late...

:nopity:

[AngryOldDem]

61. Their backs are against the wall, and they know it.

Cheap street theater is all they have left.

And if they think they'll "convert" anyone to the cause by such shock tactics, they're sorely mistaken. But that is a lesson they will never learn.

And yes, it was a "field trip" for many schools.

I wondered what it would be like to have to run that gauntlet.

[jakefrep]

66. You see "pro-lifers", I see people too stupid to realize they've been punked.

nt.

[MellowDem]

84. You have to understand where they are coming from...

I used to be conservative, and what many conservative Christians believe is that there is literally a holocaust going on right now in the US. They even count the # of abortions since the inception of Roe vs. Wade (for example, 7 million babies have been killed over the last 30 years is an oft heard slogan). Since they really do believe that a fetus is a human life, it is not surprising that they act the way they do. It's why they vote abortion over their own economic, health, or social security issues. They are trying to stop mass genocide in their eyes. Just replace "abortion" with "Darfur" and you'll see that they're signs really aren't any different from any other protest sign.

Teens especially are recruited to carry out the protests, because they often have the time to do it of course.

Personally, I understand where they are coming from. I think they often are ignorant of the world though, a little naive. Abortions have been happening from the beginning of history, definitely before Roe vs. Wade. And while I personally don't think abortion is a good thing, I think it should remain legal because it's going to happen anyways, might as well be regulated and safe for the mother.

Why these protesters are ignorant is this. They don't understand that Democrats want less abortions as well, it's just that making it illegal does not seem the way to go. Now, poverty fighting programs, sex education, free contraceptives, better education, etc. will all definitely lead to less abortions. But conservatives don't ever look at it that way. They can't imagine that our government would make it legal to carry out holocausts. Basically, the problem is they always see the world as black and white.

It's nothing to be appalled about. In fact, their cause is noble when viewed from their understanding. And if you understand where they are coming from, you can respect them and gain their respect, and then hopefully change their minds on the abortion issue, as we all want less abortions.

[Kashka-Kat]

88. yes well said - and isnt this thread also an indication that we have our share of b&w thinkers?

There is some work going on I understand between some who identify as "pro-life" and some "pro-choice" on the things they can agree on such as contraceptives and adoption services/support for mothers. But this all too often gets lost in the debate on this subject.

We humans are clever apes, we've been to the moon and split atoms. There is no reason we can't have a birth control method that is safe, inexpensive, easy, effective AND fits the ethics of people who believe life begins at conception (I will admit to being one of those who has that belief.)

Me, I'm not appalled - somehow everything's changed in the last few months now that progressives can be part of the national debate again. IF we can have a democracy, where everyone can participate and not be shut out, then I'm more than happy to see the quote "other side" excercise their freedom of speech too even though it does seem ignorant and ill-informed.

[Lars39]

91. The growth of the cells depends on implantation...which has to be voluntary,

otherwise it's forced pregnancy.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

117. It's all about misogyny and authoritarianism.

I have argued many of the points you made until I am blue in the face with anti-choicers and the debate nearly always boils down to their belief that compulsory pregnancy is God's role for women/proper punishment for disobedient sluts. The concern for the pweshus widdle baybees is window dressing.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

89. This would be the same "pro life" crowd that loves

killing as many brown people for their oil (and for fun) as possible, the death penalty for everything under the sun and hates the thought of giving any poor person a dime as it is more Jeebuslike to let them freeze and starve in the streets.

These pathetic, mouth-breathing asshats are the Mount Everest of hypocrisy, stupidity and sheer hammer-headed self-righteous craniorectal impaction.

Obama is President, the global gag rule is gone and stem cell research is on its way. Choke on it, fuckwads.

[liberalhistorian]

90. Surely you're not saying that they don't have

the right to be there and protest and speak out for what they believe in, even if you happen to disagree with it? They have as much right to be there and speak out as we did all the times those on our side have been to marches and rallies in D.C. and other places. I can imagine that they would have thought our signs and placards to be "militant and ugly and in-your-face" as well.

Freedom, including freedom of speech and assembly, isn't just for those who agree with us. It's for EVERYONE. Now that WE are in the majority, let us not turn into what the other side was these past eight years, angry at any dissent and wanting to allow freedom only for their own.

[4 t 4]

99. maybe it has to do with

the fact that they have no chance in disrupting anything in this area at least for the next 4 years and their heads are starting to blow ? Chill the F--k Out, he has this one. President Obama. I just love to write President Obama. Chill this is a non issue right now we should move on to things that really need fixing.

[proud patriot]

94. bush used to call these rallies

it made me sick .

[Cha]

96. Where were they when bush was killing babies

in Iraq? I don't like the term "Right to life" for them. It's more like "Hypocricy is my middle name".. so I'll fucking get in your face if I want.

[elleng]

97. Its my daughter's birthday,

and I heard the news of the event when I was in the hospital awaiting her arrival! (24 years ago!)

[L0oniX]

98. As usual ..stupid fuckin hypocrites ..once you are born no one gives a shit.

[liberalhistorian]

101. And there are plenty who don't seem to

care BEFORE you're born. It works both ways.

[L0oniX]

102. Plenty of people don't think you "are" until you are born.

[liberalhistorian]

103. That is pure bullshit.

Even scientifically speaking. And frankly, that kind of thinking is as sickening as the other way as well.

[L0oniX]

107. I'm sure they would welcome you in freeperland.

[Hansel]

106. If they are so pro-life, perhaps we should join them with pictures

of mutilated children and the mangled bodies of pregnant women from the wars most of these fools have supported either directly or by voting for war mongers.

I have no patience for their naivety.

[Hotler]

110. Why were they not behind a Free-Speech-Zone fence?....

Where are Minneapolis law enforcement when you need them?

[donheld]

112. The "pro-life" crowd was NOT everywhere in downtown DC today

They were NOT in the White House :applause:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

115. I'm seeing some forced birther apologists on this thread.

And I don't like it. :grr:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

116. Yes, they are terrorists. They DO murder people.

Look up Dr. David Gunn and Dr. Barnett Slepian. Two doctors murdered by anti-abortion people.

I reported some of the trial of Planned Parenthood of Southeast Texas, Inc. etal. v. Operation Rescue et al. 1992, it started at the RNC in Houston. Then the trial was in 1994.

I saw a woman who said she was so proud of her son for firebombing an abortion clinic and going to federal prison for it. He was 18 or 19 at the time.

I saw Flip Benham, Don Treshman and Randall Terry swear they did not incite people to riot.

These people are scary. The leaders are men, and many of them are German.

They picketed at doctor's houses on Sundays, with flyers giving directions to the doctors' houses, like it was a Sunday picnic, suitable for the kids.

The doctors would go outside and rip the crosses out of the yard and throw them down.

[RadicalTexan]

120. We had them here in Austin, too

And I wanted to yell at them from the car. But I didn't. Very proud of myself.

What a waste of time (on their part).