9/11 remains possibly used on roads: court papers

[Roland99]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070323/ts_nm/sept11_remains_dc

Debris that may have contained bits of bone from victims of the World Trade Center attacks was used to fill potholes and pave city roads, according to court papers filed on Friday.

The charge was made in an affidavit filed in Manhattan federal court in an ongoing case filed in 2005 by family members of those killed in the attacks against the city. They say the city did not do enough to search for remains, denying victims a proper burial.

Eric Beck, a construction worker employed at the Fresh Kills landfill in the borough of Staten Island, where the rubble was taken after the Twin Towers fell, said in his affidavit that the process of sifting through the debris was rushed.

Beck said he saw sanitation workers removing small pieces of debris containing possible bone fragments and loading them "onto tractors, and using it to pave roads and fill in potholes, dips and ruts."

:mad:

[CJCRANE]

1. I'm not sure if

I should mention this - but the first thing this reminded me of was how the Nazis apparently made lampshades out of their victims' skin.

[bainz]

20. "Dr" Weiner, is that you? n/t

[WorldResident]

22. The City of New York brainwashed the 19 innocent terrorists to hit the WTC to make road material!!!

It all makes sense now! :eyes: :sarcasm:

[CJCRANE]

32. Well...

obviously it isn't quite the same...but there does seem to be a callous disregard for the victims' remains by the B*sh administration.

If we also look at the fact that B*sh didn't even want to hold a commission into 9/11 until pressurised by the Families' Sterring Committee a year or eighteen months later then I think we can see a pattern emerging that these people don't matter to them. Perhaps it's more analogous to brushing dirt under the carpet (even if that "dirt" is human remains).

[Lerkfish]

2. important question: WHY was it "rushed"?

just asking that question will get me sent to the 9/11 dungeon, but what the hey.

Why was it rushed?
Why was all the steel carted off immediately and repurposed?

[AlCzervik]

3. thats a good question for Rudy Guiliani.

[Roland99]

5. $$$$ (contracts)

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[juno jones]

12. I believe the firefighters are saying

that the search was rushed because there were bank vaults (bank of nova scotia, If I remember right) with gold and silver that had gotten buried under the debris. The debris was shifted over to fresh kills where they obviously didn't take care of it properly either. Giuliani is going to be handed his head over this if he makes it to the primaries.

[Lerkfish]

13. thanks for an intelligent response to my questions.

that helps explain the "why".

[WinkyDink]

16. THAT is the $64,000 question. NO forensic investigation of the metal.

[Laurier]

18. It wasn't rushed. It took nine months to remove the debris,

which was then sorted and sifted through in minute detail by hundreds of experts at the FreshKills site before it was released and sent elsewhere. Samples of the steel were also kept, studied, analyzed, maintained and studied in great detail, and a bunch of it remains to date in museums as well as an airplane hangar in New York.

[mhatrw]

26. That's bs.

Exactly TWO pieces of metal from WTC-7 were recovered. TWO PIECES! And strangely enough, both pieces showed completely unexplained signs of high temperature sulfidation: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/metallurgy/WTC_apndxC.htm

Less than 0.5% of the steel from from WTC-1 and WTC-2 was analyzed in any way! Exactly 2 of these 236 pieces showed any signs of pre-collapse exposure to temperatures above 250 C and none showed any signs of exposure to temperatures above 600 C.

Get educated: http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NISTNCSTAR1-3Draft.pdf

[Laurier]

28. No, it isn't.

You just moved the goalposts, that's all.

The OP and all of the posts above in this thread were about the World Trade Center, not about building 7. You really should try reading for comprehension before you go off half cocked. It took several months to finish the search & rescue, several months of sifting through hundreds of thousands of tons of debris which was sent for analyzis.

And if you really think that you can divorce the search and rescue and cleanup operations of the entire 16 acres from the one building that you wish to talk about, please explain how that could have or should have been done.

[mhatrw]

30. I didn't just mention one building. I clearly mentioned all three.

Why are you pretending otherwise?

[Redstone]

4. "...MAY have contained..." "...POSSIBLE bone fragments..." Blah, blah, blah.

Redstone

[stillcool]

6. is the lawsuit bullshit?...

The charge was made in an affidavit filed in Manhattan federal court in an ongoing case filed in 2005 by family members of those killed in the attacks against the city. They say the city did not do enough to search for remains, denying victims a proper burial.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The remains of about 40 percent of the victims were never recovered, and hundreds of bone fragments have been discovered in and around Ground Zero in the last six months, the lawsuit says.

[Redstone]

8. I suspect it might be. Remember, just that fact that a lawsuit has been filed does not,

prima facie, confer to it any legitimacy. Anybody can file a lawsuit for anything.

Redstone

[stillcool]

10. I'm well aware of that...

I guess I was just surprised at your cavalier response, and made an assumption of my own, that perhaps you were more knowledgeable about this particular case...hence the blah, blah, blah.

[Redstone]

11. My "blah" comments were based upon the weasel-words in the original post. ANYONE can say

"May have," "might have been," "believed to be," and so on. And when I see a post full of those modifiers, I tend to be skeptical.

Redstone

[mhatrw]

25. Yeah, the fact that they screwed the rescue workers as well as the

victims' families is bullshit.

Do you remember how much US citizens donated after 9/11? And they didn't even do a decent job recovering the dead? And they lied about the air quality so thousands of NYC rescue, recovery and other Ground Zero workers are now sick and will die early? And they didn't even analyze the steel debris to find out exactly what brought down the towers and WTC-7 to aid in future construction safety plans?

:wtf:

[lovuian]

9. They had to get rid of the Dust

Dust to Dust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B2WBD-F-7I
it had asbestos in it too

[whistle]

14. Fresh Kills Landfill....what the hell kind of macabre name is that for a business?

<snip>

ABOUT FRESH KILLSABOUT THE COMPETITIONPUBLIC FORUMSPONSORS & PARTNERS
Fresh Kills Reference
Landfilling Overview
The Neighborhoods





ABOUT FRESH KILLS

Fresh Kills Landfill is located on the western shore of Staten Island. Approximately half the 2,200-acre landfill is composed of four mounds, or sections, identified as 1/9, 2/8, 3/4 and 6/7 which range in height from 90 feet to approximately 225 feet. These mounds are the result of more than 50 years of landfilling, primarily household waste. Two of the four mounds are fully capped and closed; the other two are being prepared for final capping and closure. Fresh Kills is a highly engineered site, with numerous systems put in place to protect public health and environmental safety. However, roughly half the site has never been filled with garbage or was filled more than twenty years ago. These flatter areas and open waterways host everything from landfill infrastructure and roadways to intact wetlands and wildlife habitats. The potential exists for these areas, and eventually, the mounds themselves, to support broader and more active uses. With effective preparation now, the city can, over time, transform this controversial site into an important asset for Staten Island, the city and the region.

Before dumping began, Fresh Kills Landfill was much like the rest of northwest Staten Island. That is, most of the landfill was a salt or intertidal marsh. The topography was low-lying, with a subsoil of clay and soils of sand and silt. The remainder of the area was originally farmland, either actively farmed, or abandoned and in stages of succession.

Although Fresh Kills Landfill is not a wholly natural environment, the site has developed its own unique ecology. Today, even with four large landfill mounds on the site, forests, tidal wetlands, and freshwater wetlands still exist. One of the fundamentals of nature, adaptation, is demonstrated in the evolution of these natural features in an unnatural context.

Perhaps most representative of nature's ability to adjust to man's presence is the Isle of Meadows. Located at the mouth of the Fresh Kills Estuary, the Isle of Meadows was first harvested for its salt hay. The island then served as a repository for spoils from channel-dredging operations. Most importantly, it now serves as a source of ideal materials for herons constructing nests.

The potential value of this site is increased by the fact that the Fresh Kills Estuary lies on the Atlantic Flyway. The Flyway is a path used each spring and fall by many bird species as they migrate to the north and south. The Fresh Kills Estuary, designated by New York State as a Significant Coastal Fish and Wildlife Habitat, is one of the largest tidal wetland ecosystems in the region. <more>

http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/dcp/html/fkl/ada/about/1_0.html

[Roland99]

15. Wasn't some of the debris shipped overseas?

[Tansy_Gold]

19. And who is operating Fresh Kills these days?

If it weren't quite so late and I weren't quite so tired, I'd remember the DUer who posted the stunning narrative of the web of connections entangling AIP, the KBR/Halliburton spin-off company that took over "operation" of Water Reed. Somewhere in that tangled web was the name Fresh Kills Landfill, and IIRC, AIP is the contractor running it, possibly from before 9/11. . . . .


:tinfoilhat:


Tansy Gold

[Laurier]

21. Six degrees of separation.

It is easy to fabricate a conspiracy theory out of anything if you work hard enough at it. I'm sure that with a couple of days of research, we could prove that your ancestors are related to my ancestors and that yours did nasty things to mine somewhere along the line, if we were so inclined. That wouldn't mean anything at all, of course, but it would be fabulous surefire 100% foolproof smoking gun evidence to those who are inclined toward conspiracy theories. :)

[mhatrw]

27. These are not theories. These are all cold, hard facts.

1) More than 100 fragments of human remains were found at Ground Zero over a four day period in October 2006. More than five years after the attacks, 1,150 of the 2,749 victims of the New York attacks have either not been identified or not recovered: http://news.monstersandcritics.com/usa/news/article_1213846.php

2) Thousands will dies early because BushCo told the EPA to lie about the air quality around Ground Zero in the wake of 9/11.

3) The WTC towers contained well over 100 tons of asbestos among thousands of tons of other hazardous materials.

4) Exactly 2 pieces of WTC-7 steel were ever recovered for analysis, and they showed unexplained signs of high temperature sulfidation: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=greatest_threads

5) Only 236 pieces of steel from WTC-1 and WTC-2 were recovered for any published analysis. Only two of these pieces showed signs of being exposed to pre-collapse temperatures above 250 C. None showed any signs of ever being exposed to temperatures in excess of 600 C: http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NISTNCSTAR1-3Draft.pdf

[Laurier]

29. No, they are not.

They are not "cold hard facts" at all.

A couple of your points are demonstrably true, the others are pure speculation, and they have nothing to do with my post or the OP.

So your point was?

[hang a left]

31. Let us not speak in generalities

"They are not "cold hard facts" at all."

Why don't you go ahead and fill us in on what I would guess would warm soft fabrications. Be exact if you don't mind

"A couple of your points are demonstrably true, the others are pure speculation,"

Could you please define which points are demonstrably true and which ones in your opinion are speculation.

"and they have nothing to do with my post or the OP."

Not against the rules. Free county or at least used to be.

"So your point was?"

So your point was...?

[mhatrw]

34. Thanks. You saved me a post. Well, at least a post body.

;-)

[WinkyDink]

17. It's from the Dutch settlers. "Kills" means river or creek in Dutch.

http://www.archpaper.com/feature_articles/FreshThrills.html

[rodeodance]

23. Fresh Kills in fact became a cemetery of sorts when it was temporarily reopened after September 11th

........The veterans’ cemetery proposal notwithstanding, Fresh Kills in fact became a cemetery of sorts when it was temporarily reopened after September 11th to accommodate remnants from Ground Zero. A memorial is being planned as well. Corner has designed two earthworks, 40 feet high and in roughly the dimensions of both World Trade Center towers, next to the 48-acre area where the debris, and the victims’ remains within, are buried. The simple, poetic design has already been well received, though it’s still subject to debate and at least one group, the World Trade Center Families for Proper Burial, may see it as altogether unnecessary. Its members are arguing that the debris should instead be resifted—at what would likely be enormous expense—and the separated remains reburied at a more appropriate site.

[whistle]

33. Uhmm, the Fresh Kills Landfill is being proposed as a cemetery

...according to the article in the link you posted:

<snip>
The veterans’ cemetery proposal notwithstanding, Fresh Kills in fact became a cemetery of sorts when it was temporarily reopened after September 11th to accommodate remnants from Ground Zero. A memorial is being planned as well. Corner has designed two earthworks, 40 feet high and in roughly the dimensions of both World Trade Center towers, next to the 48-acre area where the debris, and the victims’ remains within, are buried.

The simple, poetic design has already been well received, though it’s still subject to debate and at least one group, the World Trade Center Families for Proper Burial, may see it as altogether unnecessary. Its members are arguing that the debris should instead be resifted—at what would likely be enormous expense—and the separated remains reburied at a more appropriate site. <end>

So, these people know that victims remains from 9/11 are in fact at this site!

[babylonsister]

24. Thanks...really! This is unreal...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=489851&mesg_id=489851