Brig. Gen. David Irvine: What Jack Bauer Has Not Done

[babylonsister]

What Jack Bauer Has Not Done
by: Brig. Gen. David Irvine
Thu Jan 22, 2009 at 10:51:53 AM EST

(This is a guest post from Brigadier General David R. Irvine, a retired Army Reserve strategic intelligence officer who taught prisoner interrogation and military law for 18 years with the Sixth Army Intelligence School. He currently practices law in Salt Lake City, Utah. - promoted by Brandon Friedman)


We are supposed to feel bad for Jack Bauer, the lead character on FOX's hit show "24." Only he and a handful of his colleagues, it seems, have the moral strength necessary to do what has to be done. While Senators whine and his superiors wring their hands about what is "right," Bauer acts and saves the nation.

What this means -- and has meant for more than six seasons of "24" -- is that Bauer is a not-so reluctant torturer. He beats up the bad guys because, as he has said so many times, "there is no other way."

The reality is that there are more reliable and effective ways. Resorting to torture isn't heroic, it's stupid. Reliance on it has resulted in strategic mistakes and has made the nation less safe. The torture chorus has yet to document a single instance of a "but for" success, and that refusal looks more and more like a criminal cover-up.

I taught interrogation and the law of war for 18 years to U.S. Army, Air Force, and Marine interrogators. The truth is that torture is just as likely to lead to false information or no information, not solid intelligence. History is replete with victims who have refused to talk or lied or died under torture. American torture has killed or addled suspects who might have provided vital intelligence if interrogated humanely. One problem with TV fiction is that viewers assume that if Jack Bauer can break some fingers and crack the case in an hour, anyone could.

more...

http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2396

[SpiralHawk]

1. "The Real reality is...." - Commander AWOL (R)

"...that we Republicon Chickenhawk Pharisees have a THING for torture because it helps us to, um, feel manly and tough and stuff, and we are so freaking pathetically insecure that we will PROJECT all our fear & FAIL & chickenhawkery out onto other human beings in the hopes that most people will tremble and thus won't notice how grossly inadequate we really are.

"The General is right on labeling this our Stupid Strategery. But what the Hell - smirk - it worked.

"Jack Bauer and his TV Torture Parties, made us republicon homelanders seem, somehow, smirk, acceptable, more or less. Thanks for catapulting our republicon homelander fear & freakout propaganda, TV peeps. Smirk."

- Commander AWOL (R)

[glitch]

2. The next season of 24 should have Jack Bauer tried, convicted and imprisoned.

Then he can be constantly looking for terrorists in prison, and bitterly wondering why no one ever visits him or gives him the respect he feels he deserves.

No torture other than what he self-inflicts.

This way Bush, Cheney & Rove can continue to identify with the show and their hero.

[Shiver]

11. I read something recently

About the next season actually dealing with Bauer feeling conflicted over his actions, or something along those lines. Can't find the source article, though...

[elocs]

3. What boggles me is how so many DUers are entertained by this RW wet dream torture. Shame! n/t

[DCKit]

5. What's funny is that the entire season is only "A Day in the Life" for Jack....

so he's torturing someone almost hourly. Quite the bizarre disconnect from reality.

[Javaman]

7. Yes, shame on me. whatever. nt

[elocs]

8. I see by your profile that your hobby is pissing people off. Ignore.

You're not worth reading.

[Javaman]

9. have a nice day.

glad you are open for a civil discussion.

and by your profile, I see you are continuing to learn everything about nothing. :)

Peace.

[rch35]

10. awwww. elocs doesnt like 24? and hes gonna ignore people who admit to watching it?

how cute!

[elocs]

12. No, just pissy people. People who are just not worth reading. Like you.

[rch35]

15. haha. youre a funny guy elocs. thanks for the smiles nt

[Javaman]

13. man, elocs is really sensitive. I thought my first comment was rather tame.

but, meh, whatever. LOL

[rch35]

16. it was completely tame. my only reasonable conclusion is that elocs is

batshit insane.

[Javaman]

17. yeah, I think you're right. :) lol nt

[slutticus]

14. Oh the shame....how DO I sleep at night......

[Hugabear]

4. But humans have been torturing for thousands of years! Why would we do it if it didn't work?

:sarcasm:

I actually heard this rationale given a few days ago by RW-hate radio host Neil Boortz.

I don't suppose it has anything to do with the fact that humans can simply be sadistic assholes?

[Locrian]

6. Id like to see...

An episode where get gets the wrong info and people die because of it. Or, where he tortures someone who we know IS NOT a terrorist and who DOESNT know information.


Cenk on TYT had a great point on torture: "It works." I works because you get bad information (what you want to hear) that can be used as propaganda or justification (like IRAQ invasion, propaganda of soldier "confessions" ala Vietnam, etc)

The torture "handbook" is supposedly a a Chinese manual for "Torturing to Obtain BAD information" precisely because you can then USE this info for whatever justification you want. NOT because you get the "truth".