Who else KNEW that the NSA was spying on dissenters as opposed to Terra-istsssts

[devilgrrl]

Gee! Who saw that coming!!!!! :sarcasm:

[dbonds]

1. Highly suspected it, didn't know it for sure.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. I knew

Our peace group was contacted by the ACLU, who filed a FOIA request. So we found out a couple years ago who was being spied on in our community.

[MadHound]

3. Gee, who thinks that this was only confined to the Bush administration

Sorry, but those acres and acres of underground computers outside of Langley VA (the Carnivore system) were installed during the Clinton administration. Going further back than that, you've got to realize that look at the surveillance state under Bush I, Reagan, Nixon, Carter, etc. etc. "Dissenters", ie those that oppose the current regime, have been under surveillance of one sort or another for decades, hell J Edgar got his start doing illegal surveillance of "anarchists" back in the day.

This is nothing new, except that the technological capability has changed and that it has become a much more well known process.

Technology has now allowed for massive numbers of people to be watched, and if you think that this will come to a halt under Obama, you're in for a rude awakening.

[devilgrrl]

4. Okay, that must mean Clinton was spying on journalists? Then why didn't he stop the Monica story?

Yeah, whatever. :eyes:

[MadHound]

8. What, think that Carnivore is a myth?

Do your research then and prove me wrong. This was a well known FBI program, and whether or not you believe in it, the fact of the matter is that it was started under Clinton, and is still up and functional, sifting through your emails and such.

Oh, and while you're at it, do some research on ECHELON, a surveillance system that was started up in 1971 and one that has continued to this day.

Sorry, but you're belief that the Democrats are pure as driven snow when it comes to illegal surveillance is simply wrong. Your hope that Obama will do away with such surveillance is misplaced.

[DCKit]

5. That's true. Echelon was online by 2001, possibly much earlier.

Other systems/enhancements:

United States - Total Informational Awareness
A project of the United States Department of Defense, Total Informational Awareness (TIA) is designed to gather personal data on a grand scale, including emails, phone calls, financial records, transportation habits, and medical information. Its proponents believe that by scanning and analyzing this massive pile of data, government agents will be able to predict and prevent crime. Many specifics concerning this plan have yet to be determined, including methods to protect the security of the warehoused information and other prevent unauthorized access. It is known, however, that the U.S. government is already funding projects to develop tools that could be used as part of this system, including software to predict an individual's behavior based on what that person does online. Reports indicate the state of Florida (with Federal support) is developing a system (called the MATRIX) that is broadly similar to TIA.

United States - Carnivore
This Internet surveillance program, which is currently being used by the United States government, is somewhat similar to ECHELON. Contrary to prior assertions, a subsequent government-commissioned review panel found that Carnivore is indeed capable of collecting all communications over the segment of the network being surveilled: "The results show that all TCP communications on the network segment being sniffed were captured by Carnivore." Moreover, the default configuration is to do just that: "When turning on TCP full mode collection and not selecting any port, the default is to collect traffic from all TCP ports." Carnivore is now being replaced by an even more powerful system, known as DCS 1000 or Enhanced Carnivore, which reportedly has higher capacity in order to deal with speedier broadband networks. The United States government also has issued a controversial field guidance memorandum regarding the installation and operation for this family of surveillance tools.

United States - Oasis & Fluent
United States intelligence officials have developed two programs which many experts believe may be used to enhance ECHELON's capabilities. One of these programs, Oasis, automatically creates machine-readable transcripts from television and audio broadcasts. Reports indicate that Oasis can also distinguish individual speakers and detect personal characteristics (such as gender) then denote these characteristics in the transcripts it creates. The other program, FLUENT, allows English-language keyword searches of non-English materials. This data mining tool not only finds pertinent documents, but also translates them, although the number of languages that can currently be translated is apparently limited (Russian, Chinese, Portuguese, Serbo-Croatian, Korean and Ukrainian). In addition, FLUENT displays the frequency with which a given word is used in a document and can handle alternate search term spellings.

http://www.nsawatch.org/networks.html

[MadHound]

9. ECHELON was started up in 1971

The original five country agreement to share surveillance, the UK-USA Security Agreement(signed by the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand) was signed back in 1947. That means that for years and decades both Democrats and Republicans have been illegally and illegitimately spying on people. People want to think that Dems are pure as driven snow when it comes to this, but they're wrong. Dems are just as dirty as 'Pugs when it comes to this shit. Or doesn't anybody remember Obama's FISA vote last fall:eyes:

[alfredo]

18. During that time the US was switching from face to face collection to

electronic surveillance. that was part of the modernization started under Bush 1.

I was part of the electronic surveillance service for a few years. This was back before the NSA was turned against us. We didn't fear Americans, we defended them.

[MadHound]

19. Sorry, but out where I was,

And in many circles of people covering the past forty-fifty years, the NSA was never our friend. They were involved in everything from feeding the US false info concerning the state of the Russian military to spying on US citizens in the '60's and beyond. You may have been told that line about defending Americans, but for we Americans on the receiving end of that "defense", well, it looked much more like we were being attacked.

[alfredo]

21. No, that was the CIA. They were doing it to keep funding up. We

knew the truth. The NSA started going to shit during the Nixon years. His paranoia affected everything.

I can't speak for all that went on in Ft Meade, just my mission.

[aquart]

6. Thought it was obvious.

Took it as a given. More interested now, in fact, in what black ops it may have spawned. What HAPPENED to the information they gleaned? What was done to the "sources" they ferreted out?

[ThomWV]

7. We knew they were spying on everyone and everything when the room in SF was disclosed

That room and the statements by the man who put the machinery in the room told us that everything was being captured, Dissenters were just one subset. Apparently so were the Senate Intelligence Committee members.

[seabeyond]

12. yes, and it was so long ago, i had forgotten the exact info i had learned

so very long ago that told us exactly what was happening.

[ThomWV]

10. Us little pissants get spied on, who cares? Big pissants get spied on and what's next?

Big pissants won't stand for it. So you may expect some sort of big pissant legislation to come from this but don't hold your breath for little pissants to be covered.

[seabeyond]

11. isnt that the truth. and though that is so little said, man, i am holding it all in

in really really pissed.....

[MANative]

13. Raises my hand...

I told my brother that I was sure this was happening over two years ago. He (DOD employee and semi-Bushbot) told me in these exact words:

"You're just a lunatic. Get a life."

I replied in these exact words:

"When this clown is out of office, we'll find out for sure that I'm right. Mark my words."

Told ya so.

[Are_grits_groceries]

14. I just took it to be true years ago.

I would tell friends over the phone that we were being recorded. Sometimes I would say hi to the NSA or whoever. I would send emails to myself with friendly notes to them. I know people thought I was crazy.
As Dogbert would say,"Neener, neener, neener." Although it is really something to be sad about too.

[helderheid]

15. Agent Mike!!! Hi!!!

[Junkdrawer]

16. You mean Bush/Cheney did the same things Nixon did?

Knock me over with a feather!

[zbdent]

17. duh ... not me ... mah presnit tole me that theys was only spying on

terrists ...

:silly:

[DevonRex]

20. Um, it's been going on since at least the early 80s on a large scale

and less effectively from at least the 70s.