So, what happened to all of the Midnight pardons?

[formercia]

I thought Junior was going to do like Poppy and give the crew, including himself, a blanket pardon.

Does that mean they're all fair game?

[EFerrari]

1. Maybe the legal geniuses advising the torture president decided that pardons

would be too incriminating of him?

[dflprincess]

11. Or, issuing pardons would have been close to admiting he'd been wrong

and George-boy would never do that.

[onenote]

2. like a lot of things some DUers claimed were certain to occur, they didn't happen

DOesn't mean chimpy wasn't the worst president ever. And it doesn't mean that I'm not a little surprised that he didn't pardon a few people connected with his administration. But it does provide a reminder that just because someone says its going to happen here on DU doesn't mean that they know any more than anyone else.

[formercia]

3. Just to prove us wrong

Sneaky bastard. :rofl:

[Seeking Serenity]

17. Yeah. That's why he refused, before leaving office, to . . .

-- bomb Iran.

-- declare martial law.

-- cancel the 2008 elections/2009 inauguration.

-- install himself president-for-life.

-- issue a pardon to Cheney, resign, and then have Cheney issue a pardon to him.

All just to make us here at DU look bad.

That's just like him.

[Zywiec]

19. Don't forget starting the draft

Remember all the posts with:

- I feel a draft,

or my favorite

- See you at the barricades

:crazy:

[Stinky The Clown]

13. Amen!

[HereSince1628]

4. I suspect they believe immunity is encoded into other executive orders.

There is mention of Yoo's and other memos involved in the torture crimes as providing immunity. There is some argument about the credibility of the arguments in those documents.

Regardless, no one in the US has authority to provide immunity against foreign courts. Some nations consider their country to have authority to prosecute human rights violations no matter where they occurred.

[sutz12]

20. Nuremburg defense, eh?

Didn't work then. Shouldn't work now. However, saying, "My lawyer said it was OK" has a kind of ring to it. The proper answer, of course, is: "You're lawyer was an idiot, working for a fool. Guilty as charged."

I have little hope for real prosecutions, but I would at least like to see some investigations. Just dragging their butts in front of somebody and forcing them to acknowledge they ain't the gods they seem to think they are would be worth it.

Mostly, I'd like to see their pensions revoked. It turns my stomach to think I'll be paying for Shrub's retirement.

[HereSince1628]

29. We need to understand our degrees of freedom

Bush wasn't required to make public pardons
Bush wasn't required to make public presidential findings or executive orders

What exactly has Bush done? What remains possible within the US Legal System???? Bush may have tied the US legal system's hands.

BUT

Bush could not immunize his co-conspirators and partners in crime from international courts.

I have discounted the possibility of ANY justice from inside the US.

If the many criminals of the Bush administration will be held accountable for denying other human beings their human rights it will happen because of INTERNATIONAL prosecution.

I have NO problem with the members of the Cheney Administration being tried in absentia by foreign governments.

[gratuitous]

5. I was somewhat surprised it didn't happen

But, truth be told, whenever I expected the worst out of George W. Bush and his miserable failure of a presidency, I was right more often than not, and had my expectations exceeded on any number of occasions.

My guess is that by withholding pardons, Bush hopes to keep everyone quiet. Once someone is pardoned, they lose their rights under the Fifth Amendment since they can no longer be incriminated by their testimony. Time will tell if Bush's gambit is successful. However, if his personal history is any guide, it will almost surely blow up in his face.

[Ikonoklast]

21. Immunity can still be offered to the smaller fry.

The bigger fish still need to keep the underlings and their families in fear, or all hell might break loose.

[gratuitous]

27. Indeed

But in order for the investigation to really get going, someone in a position to know something is going to have to grow a conscience and get in touch with someone trustworthy enough (whether a congressional aide or a Department of Justice lawyer) who will take their testimony and work to get them an immunity deal. Part of the Bush cult was that no one outside their circle could be trusted with all this sensitive and secret information, and weren't all of you inside lucky to know the real scoop on what was going on? The little fish probably are self-installing when it comes to being fearful of "outsiders."

It will be a very tricky dance, requiring some delicate negotiations. Pardons might have cut through some of that if an investigator reached out to a low level pardoned perp who didn't have to worry about going to jail.

[Ikonoklast]

28. I wonder who has the 'insurance program' of copied data.

It's always wise to keep an extra set of books when dealing with the Mob.

Kept in a very safe place.

[Catshrink]

6. My guess is the arrogant bastard still refuses to believe he did nothing wrong.

So why should he pardon anyone? If he did so that would mean admitting wrongdoing and he's unable to do that. It's a symptom of a sociopath. GWB is the definition of sociopath.

[sweettater]

7. I believe it was

Jonathan Turley who said last night on either KO or Rachel that pardons do not have to made public.

[lunatica]

8. I heard it on Keith Olberman or Rachel Maddow

that someone who knows Bush says he's warm to his family but that he's really cold hearted to other people. He just doesn't care about other people and doesn't feel the need to do things for others.

He never pardoned anyone on death row in Texas no matter what the evidence showed. He rained death and destruction on innocent people in two countries killing hundreds of thousands and believes in torture. That doesn't make for a very nice person.

I think he enjoys being mean.

[librechik]

9. Bush cares for nobody but Bush.

Surprise, bootlickers!

[BattyDem]

10. John Dean said on KO that he could have issued "secret pardons"

No one would ever know, unless the person pardoned was brought up on criminal charges and said, "The pResident pardoned me." :-(

[Zywiec]

12. A "get out of jail free" card. n/t

[kenny blankenship]

15. If it's secret how can we be sure that it was issued before Bush left office?

That just doesn't seem like it would pass Constitutional muster.

[Oregone]

14. I think he is just really fucking lazy, which is his hallmark characteristic.

[rvablue]

16. Forget who, but a DUer had a VERY interesting theory on this a few days ago

if Bush gave everyone a pardon then none of them could claim the 5th and would have to answer every question answered of them.

I found this quite interesting and curious a concept ... but I'm no constitutional lawyer.

[ColbertWatcher]

18. One of their minions already tried that before Congress.

It might have been Goodling, but I'm not sure.

[KharmaTrain]

22. It'd Could Have Been One Big F U To His Party...

I was one who thought we'd get a list at 11:59:59 on innauguration day. Surely this goon wasn't going to leave without giving all his enablers free passes, but maybe I misjudged.

Maybe boooshie felt he wasn't appreciated or that others in his party deserted him...here was a final screw you to those who didn't throw themselves under the bus for him...or their silence has been bought other ways.

TPM doesn't go into the secret pardons but discusses how boooshie may try to extend immunity to either having to testify or face any legal liabilities. That'd be one hell of a court case...and we'll find out soon as there are several outstanding subpoenas boooshie was able to block...now let's see.

One last reason why he didn't was his list was thin...people who were actually needing pardons...people convicted of crimes in his name. We all know of Scooter...but who else? Abramoff? Dukestir?

No matter...he's left with a lot of clouds circling around his regime and just like how he's done with other ventures he's failed at (which is about everything), he just walks away and lets those behind to clean up the messes and fend for themselves.

[Orsino]

25. You'd think that they'd have gotten that message by now...

...what with the daily mountains of disaster he's wrought on them.

[KharmaTrain]

26. Have They Ever Displayed Any Comprehension??

One major "asset" to be a repugnican is to be self-centered and arrogant. You create your own "reality" and blame others who don't subscribe to it as the reason why it failed. These goons don't think they failed...other failed them. It wasn't the poor response to Katrina that made the catastrophe worse, it was people who did. It wasn't a need to grab oil and play world cop that led to the invasion of Iraq...they were just "asking for it". It's always somebody elses fault.

As we see with the blunderbuss of Rushbo and other right wing blowhards, they don't see the mountain cause the don't WANT to see it.

Cheers...

[Orsino]

30. Oh, they comprehend that point, all right. No doubt.

They have to pretend not to, though; you can see the sweat. Their contortions are hilarious to watch, their skulls being too tiny to contain even a tenth of the cognitive dissonance their stance causes.

Even McCain found he had to run on the promise of some sort of nebulous change, and almost no Republican wants to photographed with */Cheney--for the last year or more, I think.

[KharmaTrain]

32. Running From Vs. Running For...

No they don't want the crashcart photo-op and I doubt many are interested in taking him up on a weekend of duck hunting, but they sure did take the money he could and did raise. They'd sneak him in and kiss the ring to open the purse strings. There is a definite self destructive co-dependency thing going on here...as while they may run from him, they still won't condemn him...they're scared shit.

McCain became the nominee by default...kinda like the last one standing after a demolition derby. The GOOP is not just a defeated party but a fractured one. There are the neo-cons vs. the "fiscal conservatives" vs. the fundies vs. the "moderates"...Gramps was the least common denominator. And he ran not as someone running for something, but because he had to...that he was entitled. Promises were vacuous as it was "whatever it takes to win" and this turned that campaign into a joke...one of the worst national campaigns ever run.

I honestly think many in the GOOP remain clueless. We'll get a real good indication in another week or so when they choose a new RNC head...when Democrats were confronted with a similar situation following '04, Howard Dean rose to the fore...let's see if they have their own Howard. I doubt it.

Cheers...

[Orsino]

31. deleted dupe

[Justpat]

23. Olberman had someone on last night who suggested he still might have

pardoned people - he just kept them secret like everything else.

Can't remember who the guest was.

[Orsino]

24. Too drunk to sign his name?

Sulking in his bedroom? Just not giving a damn about anything anymore?