Chris Matthews just really impressed me.

[GOPNotForMe]

He was unabashedly advocating for war crimes prosecution against Cheney. I know he's fairly opportunistic but this is not the direction the winds are blowing, in my opinion, so I am shocked he would go there. His logic was sound: If Cheney ordered torture and torture is illegal, then he should be prosecuted.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. He has been surprisingly left-leaning of late. He and Keith were downright

giddy during the Inauguration.

[Mugweed]

2. Was he doing this in 2003?

If not, I'm not that impressed at his lack of spine.

[leeroysphitz]

27. Those were dark times. It seemed like EVERYBODY was waving a flag and screaming for blood.

I remember using all these arguments against the war that have turned out to be 100% correct but getting shouted down everywhere and by people who should have known better.

[FatDave]

29. You are correct, but please remind people of this:

Who was right all along? Who was right about everything? THE LIBERALS!

[stopbush]

3. MSNBC just cut his salary from $5MM to $2MM a year.

He's probably venting.

[ShortnFiery]

12. I hope it's a trend because too many times I begin to like Tweety ... then all of a SUDDEN ...

DRAT! He goes right wing wackko on me. :(

[babylonsister]

4. First time I can recall he's even discussed this; I think KO lit a

fire under him. And for someone who doesn't 'trust' bloggers, what was David Corn doing on there?

[hfojvt]

17. David Corn is an author and jounalist with Mother Jones magazine

Tweety does not trust anonymous bloggers. Especially those with names starting with H, and who call him names.

[babylonsister]

19. Yes, I know he's an author, but he's also a blogger. After

Tweety went off on bloggers yesterday, I had to mention it. I'm drawing a blank on the 'H' you mentioned. :shrug:

[hfojvt]

50. thtwudbeme

that would be me, a name I call myself, and fah is a long, long way to run.

and also Hissyspit, Hypnotoad, Haruka3_2000, Heidi, Heddi, and many others whose names escape me now.

Anybody can blog, but it's only the little people who are unreliable to Tweety, and I cannot necessarily blame him for that. Any herky person can try to start some rumour or meme irregardless of whether it is true or even gramattically correct. They need to be a blogger with a name, a name which would be trashed if their story turned out to be false. A journalist with an anonymous source is not the same thing as an anonymous person claiming insider knowledge.

[Hissyspit]

47. Anonymous Bloggers Whose Names Start With 'H' And Who Call Tweety Names...

UNITE!

[Mrs. Overall]

5. I'm glad Chris Matthews has changed his tune lately, but I remember when the Iraq

War was getting underway and he was a cheerleader for it as well as for many of Bush's policy decisions.

I would like to see some of the old Hardball footage from 2002-2006. He was often a mouthpiece for the administration.

I'm glad for his change of heart, but I really don't completely trust it.

[sandnsea]

6. He actually opposed the war, BUT

he promoted every Bush talking point because I think he thought Republicans don't lie.

[Mrs. Overall]

7. Did he oppose from the beginning? I seem to remember that he came out

against it prior to the 2006 election, but maybe I'm wrong. I used to get so frustrated at his continuous Republican talking points and having Republicans on his show the majority of the time.

[Kahuna]

14. He was a repuke shill to be sure. But on this one issue he didn't

agree. It didn't stop him from loving bush all the same. But he didn't agree with the invasion of Iraq.

[sandnsea]

15. Just a couple of times

Yes, he did say he didn't think the war was a good idea, and Tucker Carlson did too. Their reporting certainly didn't match those ideas, but then it shouldn't. What's bizarre is that Matthews went so far in perpetuating all the right wing stories without giving any credence to the opposing voices. Somebody needs to make him answer for that.

[H2O Man]

13. Mr. Matthews has,

for reasons that I do not understand, found George W. Bush to be likeable. In the case of Dick Cheney, he has long been quite the opposite. Cheney's office lobbied for Matthews to be "silenced" when he spoke out against the WMD lies, and the Libby trial documented the level to which the Cheneyites considered him to be an enemy.

Considering the reporting on Countdown in the past two days on spying on journalists, and the threatening phone call that Karl Rove made to Matthews to say "Wilson's wife is 'fair game'," it is not surprising that Matthews called for Congress to investigate Cheney's role in the Plame case. His call for prosecution per torture is consistent with Matthews' past position.

[Me.]

20. Exactly

He was against the war and on the the Plame matter his show and their reporter for this story, Shuster, did some great reporting and holding feet to the fire. I will always respect the fact that after the Rove call and despite Cheney threats he called Joe Wilson and warned him that Rove was going after Valerie.

[stillcool]

24. I remember it that way as well

[Kahuna]

11. Chris Matthews was NOT a cheerleader for the war. He was against it..

Did he speak out strongly against it? No, he didn't. Still he did say that he was against it and wrote a column saying he was against it too.

[FatDave]

31. But he also gushed like a schoolgirl with a crush for the "mission accomplished" photo op

I haven't forgotten that.

[Kool Kitty]

34. Yes. The conversation between

Matthews and G. Liddy was one of the most nauseating displays I have ever seen or heard. :puke: Bush was one of Matthews' many "man crushes".

[Carni]

46. I remember that column he wrote

I was shocked at the time to read it.

Mathews biggest problem was (is) his apparent fixation and hatred of Bill Clinton (and that IMO is the only reason he carried water for Bush in 99 and beyond)

[Norrin Radd]

8. Holy crap! Weird.

[ashling]

9. That makes 2 impressed w/ Tweety

He impresses himself. :sarcasm:

[peacetalksforall]

10. If you have five major networks whose owners were Republican and who were

willing to partner with the WH to take over the world, you would not break from them for fear of falling to the bottom and/or closing down from lack of advertisers. The WH rode a grand black space ship with exquisite precision feedng off 9-11. They not only got their own freaky, wobbly base of evangelicals by also partnering with reverends, they got that entire middle ground who believed we were attacked by outsiders. How could any of them go against the tide - not even Dem leaders went against it.

Then, you have a mandate of voters who became disgusted with Republicans and finally saw many lights of enlightenment on many issues. Are you going to stick with the other four )or three and a half if you consider that CBS has done a few responsible things)?

They are breaking away based on the new mandate and because Olberman and then O and Maddox showed them where the flags were flying the highest.

All of them ONLY perform and operate because their Directors approved them. Matthews got the nod to change course. Maybe it fit, maybe it didn't. I thought he was very sincere when he smeared Dems and gave his all to pushing the Cheney WH messages and propaganda.

Who knows when he is acting. Anyway, don't treat them as totally individual personalities who have free range approaches. They are directed. They have bosses. The bosses have bosses right on up tot the top of General Electric - who is the same as the old WH.

They would not have hired Maddox if they didn't want her personality. We don't see her having to bend to them. Olberman set the pace. Matthews could have gone either way. He could change on a dime in two weeks - all by his boss's direction. He's a see-saw man. U wouldn't trust him or the bosses at all until he demonstrates the same behavior your recognizing for as long the next four years.

[NM Independent]

35. Say what? Maddox? Who the hell is Maddox?

Or, are you just smoking some crack-a-lacka?

DUDE! It's MADDOW!

Get it right. Sheesh :eyes:

[olegramps]

36. You really get steamed over a "W"??

[NM Independent]

52. I guess I should have used the sarcasm thingy

My bad.

[marions ghost]

38. I think you're right

it was truly a Dark Night as far as the mass media went during the Bu*h regime. (Thank God & Gore for the internets). You described it well IMO. I'm still quivering from it.

There's no reason to "trust" any of these pop pundits. They have to appeal to too many audiences & satisfy corporate masters. It is significant that Olbermann was allowed to stick his neck out, to test the waters and troll for Liberals, and he has done the job well. He deserves 1,000 roses for providing a lifeline in that dark night. And MSNBC stock has gone up as a result. But of course they're all riding the wave. They do not represent solidity in the sense of old-fashioned media, where we always knew where some pundit was coming from. Today in this slippery world of images it's to their benefit to keep the viewers at the end of a tether. They're competing with the internets and with the myriad distractions of our fragmented society.

Matthews is a master chameleon. He snags em and bats em around. His job is to be unpredictable, confounding and irritating. Tweety does it well. He keeps it "real" y'know (recognizing that all reality is subjective). He let's Keith be the Liberal's Liberal...ie. idealistic. Whereas I'm glad anytime Matthews goes nukular in a direction I agree with (eg. prosecution of these criminals), I NEVER make the mistake of thinking he's had an epiphany and will now become a true Liberal. I accept that he's a left-leaning shit-stirrer. Sometimes that's good. Often it's irritating.

Maddow then has another style, no less quick in the analysis but with a lighter, breezier delivery. She keeps a firm foothold in her amazing command of political and historical detail, and gets difficult subjects across very palatably (sp anybody?). Rachel's a good contrast to the fiery styles of O and M. She's more emotionally neutral, while making controversial points. Her opposite is Pat Buchanan, who must rev up til his rotor falls off & rolls down the street or he would not be so entertaining. They all have their personalities and their niches. But it's not wise to identify with any of them too much, or put them on that pedestal reserved for the Perfectly PC Pundit. They disseminate news and opinions--take what you need and leave the rest.

[KharmaTrain]

16. Tweety's Got His Reasons...Plamegate

Remember, it was crashcart's people who went complaining to Timmeh Russert about how mean Tweety was being and needed to be "talked to". I remember the day of the revelation and then after Russert's testimony Tweety was really pissed...felt like he'd been used by cheney that almost got this guy fired. Methinks there's a bit of personal at work here.

[Captain Hilts]

33. Chris "People like a 'guy' to be president" Matthews. nt

[damntexdem]

18. I'm sure that it's how he really feels.

And that Obama doesn't want to be "backward looking" allows Chris to make it an issue and be seem as pushing the White House about it.

[Imagevision]

21. Mathews should ask Pelosi to do an encore about war crimes...etc

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

22. To give him his due,

he has always been virulently against the lunacy that was the rush to war in Iraq -- he was vocal about this even back in 2002/3. One particularly poignant episode was the College Hardball w/McCain: with all the college students also siding with McCain's war mongering noises, Chris turned to the student audience and said, ok, how many of you are willing to go fight in the war that you all are advocating? Less than 10% of those that were gunning for war kept their hands up!

Not even Phil Donahue was that clear in those days...

[riverwalker]

23. I love how he says "Cheney"

like "Cheeee-Neee" and kind of snarls like he stepped in dog poop. His unabashed revulsion towards Cheney is admirable.

[Cha]

25. Yeah, I can

admire that.

[lunatica]

26. He loved Bush's mission accomplished cod sock

He was beyond thrilled. He stated right then and there that women are all in love with Bush because, well, look at him. Women love winners.

[GOPNotForMe]

32. I remember. Relevance?

I never claimed he was perfect but what he said tonight, and only tonight, was impressive. If you'd care to discuss his (many) shortcomings, by all means, start a thread on it.

[lunatica]

39. Since when do I need your permission to comment or 'start a thread on it'?

[GOPNotForMe]

40. Hmm, I never said anything about permission. Just thought it made more sense.

Since you clearly have an ax to grind.

[dreamnightwind]

28. He probably wants the story

I think he's being genuine, he believes these guys, especially Cheney, deserve to have their undermining of the constitution exposed.

He also wants the story. From his perspective, I'm sure it would be an exciting one to cover. A tingle up BOTH legs. Hey, I'd be watching them go after Cheney or other BFEE criminals, you better believe it.

Matthews just completely confounds me. I'll be glad he's on the air one minute and cursing him the next.

For example, yesterday he had Sen. Kit Bond of Missouri on his show, parroting the lie that 61 (I think 61 is the number they're using) released Gitmo prisoners have gone on t kill Americans since their release. This lie has been thoroughly debunked (Bill Moyers did a great piece on it recently). The facts are just horribly misrepresented by this claim.

Matthews never called Kit Bond on the lie. Reminded me of how he rarely called people on the lies about needing to make war on Iraq. Why didn't he point out the falsehood of what Bond was saying?

Whatever the reason, the result is that his show can and often does provide a soap box for right wing lies to be put out as fact, yet go uncorrected, thus gaining credibility in the mind of the viewer. They repubs know this, too, and send their guys on his show to do just that.

Odd, since sometimes Chris will "hero up". He'll jump all over some guy's BS in a really tough way, and he won't let them off the hook. If only he was consistently like that!

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

30. If you're gonna prosecute the little guys, you should prosecute the big guys that told them to do it

That's almost an exact quote of what he said tonight on his show. He also said that the little guys at Abu Grahaib were threatened with huge sentences and heavy consequences and that basically they were scapegoats.

It was pretty powerful, MORE so because Matthews is not noted for having soapboxes against the entrenched.

Sort of like when you saw Shepard Smith screaming about the plight of those in New Orleans - you knew that something so major had happened that it transcended politics as usual.

[Vinnie From Indy]

37. Screw Tweety

I will not forget the hundreds of times over the last eight years that Tweety has propelled Karl Rove's propaganda into American living rooms.

He is a shill and no matter how quickly or forcefully he tries to cast off his whorish clothes, it will never work for me.

[pmorlan1]

43. Matthews voice is welcomed

Screw Tweety? Well that's fine if you hold the view that Bush crimes should not be prosecuted. If, however, you think that they should be prosecuted you really need to encourage Matthews to continue calling for it. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. Those of us who want prosecutions don't have the luxury to pick and choose who we want to advocate prosecutions because there are very few in the national media who are actually advocating our position - Matthews is one of them. So if you want prosecutions don't screw yourself by dissing Matthews.

[pmorlan1]

41. You don't have to be impressed to encourage Matthews

Anyone who favors prosecuting Bush administration war crimes should send emails to MSNBC and Matthews complimenting Chris on his position no matter how you feel about Matthews as a person. You don't have to be a Matthews supporter to realize that Matthews holds a minority viewpoint in the media when it comes to this issue. Most of our beltway aristocrats in the media are falling all over themselves trying to make sure the crimes remain buried. They helped cheer on Bush or they remained silent and now they just want the whole thing to go away so they aren't reminded of their own culpability. I just hope Matthews gets enough support from the viewers so that he doesn't let the others in the media convince him to change his support for prosecutions. We need more not less media personalities arguing for equal justice under law.

[spanone]

42. fair logic...imo

[glinda]

44. He has been really good I think.

Have really admired his logical argumentative approach. He is showing some strength in my opinion and not just settling for whatever they say and asking for clarification.

[Cleita]

45. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I no longer trust Matthews. There was a time when he was as progressive as anyone here. I used to follow his articles in the San Francisco Chronicle and his logic could be impeccable, but it turns out during the Republican coupe years, he was nothing more than an opportunistic shill who changed his political hat depending on which way the wind was blowing.

[EFerrari]

48. He's like a weather vane. Sometimes I enjoy his commentary

when he's on panels with Keith and Gene Robinson and Rachel but I don't watch his show.

[GinaMaria]

51. Remember how giddy he was during the 2000 selection?

he was drooling over * and the cons.

[Cetacea]

49. "Prosocute the big guys like the little guys get prosecuted". n/t