Clearing up some misconceptions about Nursing and the Nursing shortage

[inthebrain]

I'd like to clarify a few things here and maybe help people understand how this thing works. Mainly I'm going to focus on what Nursing School is like and why the shortage exists.

First off, nursing school ain't easy to get into. You have a whole list of pre reqs you need to complete and in some cases take as long as two years. Others, about three semesters if you really want to cram in some classes. This requires, for some, that they juggle their work schedule because you ain't gonna get the class you need in the time you want it. Even the prereq classes are booked up with people who want to be nurses as well.

After getting through all this you still are not guarenteed squat. Some schools require you take an entrance exam. Others require the entrance exam, work history, resume and references from bosses and teachers. Because there are not enough teachers to go around many people trying to get in have to apply to as many as six different schools. Some will even make you take some of those prereqs AGAIN as they will not accept them from other schools.

This vetting process is not perfect and many schools have to choose between 300 to sometimes 600 applicants. The guy who was a premed or a law student may look nice on paper, he's got great references from all his employers, but this is not a guarentee that he has what it takes to make it through.

So now so and so gets in. He gets his or her acceptance letter and is all excited to be one of the "lucky few". Get ready cause you're in for one hell of a ride.

You're gonna have clinical instructors that are all about pure intimidation. Nervouse about suctioning someone, just wait till this instructor get's her paws on you. Take your eyes off what your doing for a split second and this lady/male is gonna cut you down right in front of the patient.

Spiking an IV bag seems like the easiest thing in the world. Not so when you got a drill sergeant for a clinical intructor (those that have gone through this know what I mean). She's gonna drilll you on every aspect of the IV set up and you better hope you know your shit. She'ss cut you down and send you home right in front of the nurses station. Might even request a five page paper due the next day.

Put all your problems aside before going to clinical cause they ain't interested in your trouble. Clinical in a bad spot, like 45 miles away, and your boss ain't interested in giving you ten minutes at the end of the day? Time to quit that job and find another way to pay your rent, bills tuition. The faculty ain't interested in your grievances and chances are were lucky to get the clinical site you were assigned.

Let's not even get to the exams. Twenty disease processes and 40 meds to learn all in one week. Not to mention all the med cards and disease processes you have to look up for your patient. Find the time. Squeeze in something that takes about three hours into your lunch break.

Oh, and those exams, unlike other classes where you can get by with a 65 or a 70. Nursing school requires at least a 75 and others an 80 just so you can pass. And just learning how to navigate your way through NCLEX style questions is a course in and of itself. The ridiculous questions you get on the boards are the same you get as a nursing student. Their not basic knowledge questions but application questions. And that alone is not about picking the "right" answer. They are about picking the best WRONG answer.

Flunk once and you get one more shot. The second time is harder because everything in nursing school is cumulative. Stuff you got in first semester you'ss get in third semester. It's amazing how you forget stuff and it takes 10 months just to get back in.

Think the nursing shortage is due to not enough people getting into the programs? I've just scratched the surface of what a bitch this program is. I'm sure there are other nurses here that can share their horror stories. Everyone knows at least six students from their program that really know their stuff and didn't make it.

[murielm99]

1. It's a good thing that it is so hard.

I am not a nurse, but I was a recent patient. Those nurses run the hospitals. They, not the doctors, are out there taking care of the patients minute by minute.

The nurses who took care of me were fantastic. I have no complaints at all about my care.

[driver8]

2. My Mom is a retired RN...

I have nothing but the upmost respect for nurses and their profession!

Interesting post -- thanks for the info.

[Horse with no Name]

3. And the certifications needed for your job

I presently have ACLS, PALS, NRP and TNCC certifications.
I have to do those on my own time at my own expense (and they aren't cheap) and the renewals are every two years. Same with license fees and continuing education to keep myself current.
Now our state is doing criminal background checks even though I have been working for 20 years--I had to pay our local sheriff office to fingerprint me and then pay the FBI to investigate me.
I don't know about you--but I worked hard to get into school and then to go to school, worked hard to keep up my certifications and licensure, and work hard at my job. I don't think that it ought to be made easier so that there can be more nurses.
There is a reason that it is hard. Work is hard. It is stressful.
I don't want school being made easier because personally I don't want to be working alongside someone who cannot handle pressure and stress and IMHO that is one thing that school tries to weed out.

Good OP.

[exboyfil]

4. This brings in the question of foreign nurses

We have set the bar really high for a U.S. citizen to become a nurse. Do the nurses trained in other countries go through this same rigorous standard? If they do not then we can only conclude one of the following:

1. The heavy criteria in the U.S. does not impact the quality of nursing. Nurses with a less rigorous gauntlet are just as good as U.S. trained nurses

OR

2. Foreign trained nurses are not as good as U.S. trained nurses.

If 1. is the case then the standards need to be relaxed. If 2. is the case then we need to increase the pay of nurses and prohibit these foreign nurses from achieving the same level of accreditation.

The one thing we should not be doing is importing foreign nurses to the U.S. when we have unemployment. This argument applies across the board for all levels of immigration.

I would like to see the percentage of foreign trained doctors and nurses be reported for hospitals.

[Horse with no Name]

6. The foreign nurses have to take the NCLEX

so their standards are set the same as for any nurse entering into nursing.

One thing that you might keep in mind about most foreign countries and schooling.
Most countries that produce nurses place a higher value on an education from an earlier age than we do in the states. Most of these countries also pay for secondary education for their citizens--one less burden than we have here.
They do not have all of the standardized testing and are actually learning foreign languages and sciences at a rate surpassing us daily.
They are not stupid. They are just as competitive and if they can pass the NCLEX...then I am proud to work side by side with them.
And no, US standards do NOT need to be relaxed. We aren't dealing with widgets, we deal with people and need higher thinking individuals in the programs cause those people can die if you don't know what to do.

[onenote]

29. my experience with us and foreign born nurses

my dad spent the better part of a year in and out of hospitals and nursing homes. The hierarchy of nursing care in general seemed to be as follows:

Intensive care nurses -- exceedingly high quality, very good communication skills (only had two patients per nurse)

Intermediate care nurses -- also high quality, good communications skill. But with at least four patients per nurse, it was a bit harder to get information

Regular "floor" nurse -- overworked, stressed, often with more limited communications skills -- more likely to be foreign born, although not always by any means. But with 8 to 12 patients in their care and longer shifts, the fact that there was a qualify of care and quality of communications drop off wasn't a surprise.

Nursing home nurses -- mostly foreign born, except the supervisor. Overall, much lower quality of care and communication. Of course, they're paid dirt as well.

However, I should note that there was a nurse at the nursing home, from Nigeria, who was incredibly good. He probably saved my dad's life on several occasions because he knew what to do and when to do it. And he kept us informed. I told the nursing home management that they should do whatever it takes to keep him because he was, frankly, too good to be working there. They did make him a supervisor, which I took to be a good sign.

[inthebrain]

12. I'm not arguing to lower standards

But since you brought that up I do have issues with the way classes are conducted. They are too much about testing and not so much about being a good nurse. I find that aspect a little dissapointing. Especially when just focusing on being a good nurse would probably get people through the exam.

It's sad that many of the people I saw flunk were great with their patients and really knew their stuff. The testing is focused too much on the taxt book aspect and that rarely applies to what you do on the floor.

[rainbow4321]

27. Unfortunately there are some hospitals that try to coddle the new grads

and dump on the experienced ones..can't have the new grads getting a dose of reality or anything. And I am not talking about their first week on the job, I'm talking about after they have been on the floor for 6 months.

Had that happen on the floor I last worked on (I now work in an outpatient setting). Management went out of their way to give the "newer" nurses their choice of assignments...one manager took my assignment away and gave it to a newbie when the younger one griped about her assignment. Forget about continuity of care..the newer nurse didn't like HER assignment one night, she was given MY assignment the next night and I was given hers, even though I was also working that following night. And it is NOT that I had the "easier" assignment, it was because I, like the other experienced nurses, had the time management skills down and the patients were well taken care of/tasks were done in a timely manner, etc...I confronted management about the decision and was basically told "too bad".

A group of us were the workhorses that management used to shield the newer staff.
Eventually, one by one, the workhorses left, burnt out and frustrated. Later, after all but one of the workhorses were gone, I heard that the newbies WERE having to deal with a realistic patient load since there were no more "shields" for management to use/dump on and the newer nurses were leaving, looking for greener pastures...and you know how THAT works in nursing..there are NO greener pastures, it just takes a while in nursing to figure that out.

[Eurobabe]

5. Wow, I have alot of respect for anyone who

completes a Nursing program. You guys/gals are the true patriots. :patriot:

My cousin is 31 and he has a BSN, he's the head cardiac nurse in an ICU at a smaller regional hospital in Ohio. He just married another nurse he works with -- hats off to both of them.

[Hannah Bell]

7. and this is different from med programs, vet programs, pharmacy programs, pt programs - how?

everything you describe i experienced in a master's level dietetics program.

nursing isn't easy, but that's not why there's a nursing shortage, or why the % of foreign-trained nurses rises & falls.

the difficulty level isn't significantly different today than in 1998 or 1995.

you'll notice that, like the national debt, numbers of foreign-trained nurses went down in the clinton era, up in the bush era.



different policy choices, not different curriculum.

[inthebrain]

11. You think it's so easy?

You're free to scrub up and give it a shot any time you like.

ANd guess what? Some of those "foreign trained" nurses have it much harder. In many areas there are no doctors so they have to fill both roles. South African nurses are some of the most amazing I've ever worked with.

Like I said, think it's easy? Try it out.

Let's see how many people in your class are still standing at the end. My class had more than 2/3 of the students either fail out or quit by the last semester. And standards haven't laxed over the years, they've gotten tougher.

In some states if you failed one section of the NCLEX you could just take the section you failed over. Now adays you have to pay the 250 all over again. Not to mention they now have minimal competency questions on there as well as select all that apply not just the multiple choice.

You can get a freakin 90% on one of those suckers but if you got the min competency questions wrong you fail the test.

Over time the program has gotten harder. There are more meds to learn as well as diagnostic procedures. As one person pointed out, you have to keep taking more stuff even after you are finished.

[northernlights]

19. I don't think he was saying it was easy

rather, that it's no harder than *any* med school training.

I'm in pre-med lab tech. I take the same pre-med sciences as doctors, before branching off into clinical sciences. The nurses take the same biology and micro, but not chemistry.

We all have it tough. 1/3 of my micro lab was taking it for the 2nd time, and some for the 3rd.

We learn chemistry at record speed. And you are right, the testing is not memorization, but applying the concepts and knowledge. Much, much harder to do, given the time frame.

[Hannah Bell]

38. i took the same prereqs, including chemistry in/organic & biochem.

the prereqs for all the health sciences are pretty similar.

[inthebrain]

41. Yup, you went to nursing school

Please stop trying to pretend that you know all.

[Hannah Bell]

42. as a matter of fact, i looked at the reqs & prereqs for a lot of health sciences

programs before choosing dietetics. i also taught community college & university level.

i don't pretend i know all. but i know that the prereqs for most health sciences programs are pretty similar.

ps: i believe this is the 3rd post in a row where you've misrepresented my post. perhaps you should review "objective assessment of evidence".

[inthebrain]

44. You're really just grasping at straws by being extremely obtuse.

You claimed earlier that there is nothing that makes nursing "uniquly difficult". That had me rolling on the floor.

I'm not arguing that the prereqs are different although some schools do require different pre reqs. Some schools want specific chem classesgeared toward biology while others will take Gen Chem with lab.

I have a hard time buying that you taught. If you did I feel bad for the students and would seriously question the requirements that institution has for teachers. Afterall, you did claim there was some government conspiracy trying to restrict the amount of nurses and failed to produce valid evidence to back it up.

Anyone can play intellectual on the internet. Problem is that you are not very good at it.

[Hannah Bell]

45. Your rolling on the floor is immaterial. Nursing is not a uniquely difficult field.

I don't care if you believe I taught, the fact remains, what I stated is true: pre-reqs for health science programs are similar, as anyone can verify by looking into it.

Your repeated use of the phrase "government conspiracy" is intended to demean.

Government funds higher education & training & has significant input into policy.

Government funds health care & guides policy.

Government makes immigration policy, issues visas, decides on what terms.

Fact.

Sorry, it's you not backing up your arguments. I linked evidence multiple times.

[inthebrain]

46. Deny, deflect, obfuscate, contradict and repeat

You need to find a better schtick.

LMFAO!!!

[Hannah Bell]

47. You have no defensible position, thus the resort to personal attack,

rofl, lmfao, etc.

The last resort of all emotion-based arguments.

[inthebrain]

51. Attacked? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm laughing AT you not attacking you.

You're whole arguement here is so absurd you don't exactly make it easy to resist. You're a legend in your own mind.

Hey, I got no beef with you choosing to think the way you choose to think. No matter how ridiculous it is. Although I have a hard time buying that you are all that serious about it. I think you just enjoy playing the contrarian. If you do expect to be taken seriously with this stuff you post then I might be concerned.

Nothing personal. I don't think of myself as some valient key board warrior.

I just think the way you come up with conclusion on others arguements and the way you defend your own really funny.

I don't take any of this stuff personally.

[Hannah Bell]

59. you're making personal attacks. look back at the sequence of posts, & see who

turned the discussion from nursing to personal characteristics of the discussant.

if it were so inconsequential to you as you say, you would have stopped posting long ago. instead, you respond with less & less substance, more rotfl/lmfao, "i'm laughing at you," etc. jr. high school stuff.

btw, you never responded: do you think it's equitable for a poor, small country like the philippines to spend public monies to educate 10% of US nurses?

[Hannah Bell]

26. i specifically said it wasn't easy. however, it's not the cause of nursing shortages.

[inthebrain]

28. Oh, forgot, it's the government conspiracy

and the fact that you minimize it by comparing it to other professions. Although nursing encompasses may of those and then some.

And it is the cause, at least one of em, of nursing shortages.

[Hannah Bell]

30. government funds a large % of higher ed, has major input into program decisions,

makes immigration policy & national health policy. It's in charge of the variables on both the supply & the demand sides.

It's not conspiracy theory to note that government policy decisions shape labor markets. If, for example, were gov't funding of Medicare & Medicaid to disappear, so would a large chunk of the "demand" for nurses.

The use of the phrase "government conspiracy" is intended to demean.

You seem to believe the laws of supply & demand don't apply to your very special & unique field.

I specifically said nursing isn't easy. You'll have to forgive me if I disagree that nursing training is uniquely difficult or stressful...

...such that regardless of opportunities or compensation, a very high % of americans will fail to enter or succeed in it out of a pool of 300 million people - but a very high percentage of filipinos will, out of a pool of 90 million.

The difficulty of the field is not the cause of personnel shortages. Not at all.

[inthebrain]

32. Wait a second

You're claiming that if Medicad and Medicare were cut then demand for nursing would completely dissapear.

That makes no sense whatso ever.

And the laws of supply and demand to not affect my field as it does for movies etc. Healthcare is basic human need. Anyone that's taken a basic economics course understands that healthcare's demand is not effected by supply as the demand is always high. You virtually charge whatever it is that you want for it.

And in application, the effect of supply and demand are highly overstated and overrated universally. Much as is the idea of a Utopian society when it's applied to socialism and Communism (heck, at least those folks willingly admit that it's ridiculous).

Supply and demand are not the only thing that runs an economy. If that were the case cars, homes, land etc would be fucking dirt cheap.


So please spare me and stop throwing around these economic theories that you picked up in cliff's notes as if you understand how it works.

[Hannah Bell]

35. No, I didn't claim it would "completely disappear," I claimed "a large chunk" would disappear.

As would a large chunk of a lot of things we currently take as givens.

Healthcare is a basic need, yes, but in a market economy, the way the need is filled is shaped by what gets funded.

btw, do you think it's an equitable use of resources for the philippines to spend its education $$ to train 10% of US nurses?

[inthebrain]

37. Even using your flawed theory it would go up

You really need to look at economic theory as applied to medical goods and services.

Then there is the real world application as well.

If your theory actually did (no economic theorist is going to agree with it anyways) EMT's, Med flight operators, ER Nurses, ICU Nurses would all be millionares.

It's ridiculous and full of holes.

People that need life saving medical care, it doesn't matter how many nurses and DRs there are, they NEED the care. The supply of how many doesn't effect the demand. It's always high.

Hospitals always need nurses. They are understaffed because all those people care about is making a buck for doing as little as possible. It's the nurse that does all the labor and creates all the wealth. They carry out the plan of care as directed by the MD as well as apply nursing care according to their own practice. They monitor the patients, take vital signs and do all the teaching.


When there is a death they do all the counseling with the family and collaborate with others.

Health care is a basic need as is food, clothing, air and shelter. Healthcare ensures that the high priority of those basic life needs are met; Airway, breathing and circulation. It stands outside the effect of supply and demand.

[Hannah Bell]

39. no, it wouldn't go up. medicare is funded through tax assessments on

all wage workers, but consumed mainly by elderly retirees. were the tax assessments discontinued, the elderly couldn't fund the same care out of their own pockets. 2/3 of those over 65 rely on social security for 50% or more of their income.

similarly, medicaid is consumed mainly by the poor, but funded by state & federal taxes paid mostly by the middle class & up. Were the taxes discontinued, the poor would not be able to afford the same care, if any.

you're confusing abstract need with market demand. I need food, but if i don't have money, i'm SOL in a monetized market economy. I beg or pick berries, or die.

unless the nurses are willing to work for free, of course.


"It stands outside the effect of supply and demand."

no, it doesn't.

[inthebrain]

34. Oh and way to contradict yourself

"I specifically said nursing isn't easy. You'll have to forgive me if I disagree that nursing training is uniquely difficult or stressful..."

Thanks for the dose of Bourgeoisie liberalism you've imparted. Despite that fact that everyone on this thread that's gone through totally dissagrees with you.

[Hannah Bell]

36. There's no contradiction. Something can be both difficult & not uniquely difficult.

I'm neither bourgeois or liberal.

I don't believe everyone on the thread disagrees with me or has even read my comments, & if they disagree, I don't care anyway. I don't post here to be hugged & told how wonderful & right I am; nor do I believe majority rules in matters of truth value.

I've not made any personal remarks about you; your nasty tone is unwarranted.

[Sgent]

8. The real issue

is that nursing programs can't get facilities (expensive) or instructors, since Masters/Ph.D. level nurses have much more lucrative opportunities than teaching.

Until they start paying nursing instructors like business school / engineering / law school professors, there will be a shortage of nursing schools.

[Vinca]

9. I was a nursing school dropout.

It was 40 years ago, I was second in my class and I was terrorized by an instructor. I thought things had changed, but judging from the post I guess it hasn't.

[KillCapitalism]

10. I know a nurse that says it's very tough.

She described her nursing school program as pretty much being an abbreviated version of medical school. She also had to take very high level math courses with engineering students for her program.

[dkofos]

13. It sounds more like an initiation than a training program.

[inthebrain]

14. It's fucking bootcamp!!!

plus!!!

It really is.

I have the utmost respect for anyone that's tried it.

[Libertyfirst]

15. Nursing school is very challenging. But saying that does not mean

that all nursing programs are alike, nor all nursing instructors. You have good ones and bad ones and I have seen a number of both. The real problem is that the schools are underfunded and have difficulty offering students schedules that will get them through the program in timely fashion without undue delays. In order to enlarge programs you need more instructors, more expensive physical facilities, and a new approach to the clinical training to increase the number of students who can be accommodated.

Since health care is a part of our infrastructure, one of the most beneficial uses of infrastructure money would be to expand nursing programs. Community college programs can be completed in two years with sufficient space and instructors. New nurses will immediately be employed at decent wages. This is absolutely one of the quickest ways for the stimulus package to be effective quickly.

I don't doubt many of the problems identified by inthebrain, but my local community college turns out hundreds of nurses each year and from 90 to 100 percent pass their boards the first time they take the test. Every program is tough, as it should be, but not every program is worse than boot camp.

[inthebrain]

17. Community Collges

Here in MA only offer Associates Degrees. Many hospitals don't accept those and want Bachelors Degrees.

My point here being is that you can fund the fuck out of these programs and you still have a smaller % of people graduating that enter. Not to mention those that just don't feel the reward is worth all the trouble and go into other fields.

And nursing programs have a very high percentage of people that don't finish. Overall, one of the highest of all concentrations. I'm not trying to say that the only reason why people drop out is because of the instructors either.

[treestar]

16. The bottom line is that to reserve nursing for Americans would

mean somehow we'd have to go the colleges and force students into nursing school where they wanted to major in something else.

I admire nurses - can't stand the sight of blood, so to speak.

We're just lucky we do have that much medical care (not that we have it for all) that nurses from abroad want to come here. Nurses will come from Africa, which has an even greater shortage of nurses itself.

[Hanse]

18. Sounds like a cakewalk

...compared to the shit that nurses have to put up with on a daily basis.

Good to know that any given nurse really really wanted to have the job.

[rainbow4321]

20. And yet our local paper today had an article making it sound like

anyone who has been layed off or looking for another career should cruise on into the nursing profession.
So I wrote a comment to them saying they need to do a realistic article on my profession so as not to misguide people who think that they can just apply to nursing school and all will be good.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/DN-HealthCareers_25bus.ART0.State.Edition1.11575.html


Of course, what they left OUT is everything you put in your post. Excellant post, BTW.

Especially the clinical part. Where you are expected to go and be free labor for 24 hours a week (3 eight hour shifts) in addition to class time and study time. And having to go to the unit you will be on the nights BEFORE those shifts so you can pour over the patients' charts and write a detailed care plan on everyone assigned to you the next day.

I worked a paying job to make it thru nursing school til my last 2 semesters because there was NO TIME for a paying job once you started clinicals. Too many mornings of getting up at 4 am so I could go to Denny's and study. Staying home and studying meant being tempted by my bed or my toddler waking up early and me having to put away my studying material. Luckily, my then-husband took care of her in the mornings so I could go off and study and then head to all day classes.

I don't know about other states, but here in TX the nursing grads take their state exams via computers and I think you get like 3 hours to take it? No going back to check/recheck you answers...you know, like maybe question 50 had clues to help in question 20 so you go back and rethink question 20.
Luckily when I took the exam in 1990 it was all done on paper, over a 2 day period. You can't go back to a question with the computer testing. The computer shuts off automatically, leaving the new grad unsure if it shut off because they have passed or failed. If they pay a fee they can get the results in a few days via a website, otherwise they wait for snail mail results. Our hospital gives new grads 2 attempts at taking/passing the test. After that, they are demoted to a nurse's aide position if they want to stay and work til they retake the exam.

[inthebrain]

22. That reminds me of something from the "Grapes of Wrath"..

The whole idea that if you resign to your situation there's always hope. Just go pick grapes in the sunny orchards of California and let the banks take what they will.

The article almost makes it sounds like all you have to do is make the decision to become a nurse and you are guarenteed success. It's almost as if it's built off the idea that it's easy. Just walk up, fill out the forms, take a few tests and you're golden.

They ain't handing out life credits to people.

I remember at least three kids in my class going on meds because of the anxiety. They weren't eating or sleeping and on the verge of complete melt down. A few others wound up with huge marital problems because they just did not have time to participate in the relationshape or pitch in with the kids. It's really sad. People get physically ill from all the stress.

We even had one hyperventilate and pass out during an exam.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

21. My daughter just graduated last May with honors and is now making $75K as an ICU nurse

[inthebrain]

23. THAT"S AWESOME!!!!

She must be so happy to have her life back.

She really has been through the wringer. All the best to her!!

[likesmountains 52]

52. I graduated in 1977 (!) and make less than that...in an ICU..Sadly it depends a lot on the market

where you practice...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

55. Newburgh NY....in reality she will clear almost $90K with all the overtime

not bad for her first year out of Mt Saint Mary's...almost has her student loans paid off

[likesmountains 52]

56. She's lucky...my hospital just stopped paying double time for "emergency staffing"..

budget and all that..But, I have to say I don't know of any other job that I would have enjoyed so much for 30 years!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

58. I'm sorry to hear that....I hope this economy statrts to turn around real soon ...before we all die

[LaPera]

24. Then get treated like shit once you start working.....

Always short staffed, almost no exceptions, understaffed. - Because it saves hospitals lots of money.

So from day one the nurse is overworked, and it's the nurse's fucking license on the line if ANYTHING goes wrong....the hospitals & doctors just lay the blame on the next down the line, the overworked understaffed, underpaid nurses...

Most new nurses don't know shit about patient care or how to properly deal with the public....it takes time & training which the hospitals has no sympathy for, neither the nurse or the patient, because training cost the hospital bucks...Most nursing grads think it's all going to such a mellow ride with lots of money. And it is for a few, very few!

However, nurses are notoriously underpaid for the amount of work, responsibility and knowledge expected of them.

Hospitals makes gobs of money, tens of thousand of dollars for a couple of hours for an outpatient procedure at all hospitals...But like workers for any corporation, nurses do not see any "trickle down" to them. That's for the CEOs & board members, (usually doctors).

Which brings me to the extremely well paid doctors, whom the nurse must always accept their bullshit, even when many times the nurse is with the patient all day and can offer valuable input and diagnosis....dealing with many wealthy doctors and their come ons, tantrums and their egos is no picnic....but that's a whole other story.

[uppityperson]

25. Story from my first day on clinical while in nursing school...

First day actually being able to be in a hospital dealing with a Real Patient rather than practicing on each other in class. "elderly" man and woman (married couple) who had been in a car accident. She was banged up pretty good, he not so much but was blind and couldn't take care of self at home so they admitted him also (back in the old days). He was my patient. He went to the toilet, I hovered outside. My job: get him to the toilet and back to bed.

I knocked on the door and cracked it to see if he was ready or needed help. Just as he leaned on the door to balance himself. He comes crashing to the floor as the door crashes open. Wife sits up in bed and starts screaming. My instructor and the Nurse in charge come barreling in to figure out what the heck happened.

My instructor takes me, crying, out of the room, RN gets the guy up and calms the wife. He didn't get hurt and I didn't quit. Even though I wanted to.

As my nice instructor said, accidents happen, learning happens (always prop foot in front of door so it won't spring open), get over it and keep working.

[ACTION BASTARD]

31. Wow! That was some does of reality. Nursing school in nothing like I imagined.

I thought my Marine boot camp was rough. Well, that's one dream squashed.

[pipi_k]

33. One of my stepdaughters became a nurse in 2007

I heard all the stories and saw her class/homework.

It was seriously scary, and kudos to anyone who can get through it. They deserve every penny they earn, too.

[Fattys Mom]

40. I am starting an RN to BSN program in the fall

But nursing school for me wasn't that bad. I started school after several years of being a Corpsman in the navy. We did pretty much what a nurse does there so I had a leg up on the others. It is like boot camp as you have to know how, when and why do do things without thinking about it. The instructors that were the toughest were usually the ones that I learned the most from. The intimidation factor made you study harder IMHO. But from where I came from the environment wasn't much different so I was used to it.

[inthebrain]

43. I had a mix of both

Instructors that were tough in a good way and others that were tough in a vindictive way.

I had one that gave me the wrong info on a patient and tried to play it off as my fault. She tryed cutting me down in front of the nurses station and I decided I had enough and bit back. Lukily I had the paper in my pocket that everything written that she told me.

Before hand she tryed acting like I had no idea what I was doing at the med cart. She was asking why such and such med was given to this patient and cut me down claiming I wasn't looking up my stuff. I actually spent about four hours looking up meds for this patient but she gave the wrong info. I just let it slide.

After my confrontation the nurses that worked took me aside and consoled me. I got really lucky as a lot of em were outside the norm and really nice to nursing students. I was really embarassed that this teachers was talking me like I was an asshole in front them. They all told me that what I did took guts and this wasn't the first time the instructor fucked up this badly.

[Mike 03]

48. This is a crucially important post.

I understand everything you are saying except that sentence about "spiking" an IV. I've never heard of that. What does that mean?

I hope you keep posting about this topic. Nursing school is about the only thing we have in our small town that anyone cares about, and there is a huge concern about where our nurses are going to come from in the future as health care trends change.

[likesmountains 52]

53. It just means jamming the IV tubing into the bag of IV fluid..

[ElsewheresDaughter]

57. when my daughter was in nursing school she used her family to practice on....

starting IV lines....but I drew the line with catheters

[Mike 03]

49. I have a question about whether there is any relationship between Nurses and Hospice? And

if so, does Hopsice pay well enough to entice good nurses to this program?

[kenai_tom]

50. I have to say this.

I hope I am not upsetting the apple cart here...but.....

I am a Medical Technologist (The guy in the lab running all those tests and making sure they are accurate 99.9999% of the time). I am one of those people who supply 85% of the diagnostic data to your physician. We have a shortage also, and it is just as bad as nursing. Nursing gets all the press, and you never here of the other medical shartages out there. Medical Technology, Physical Therapy, Radiology, etc...

Each discipline not receiving all the press demands an education that is above and beyond nursing. All of us non-nurse professionals required courses not tailor made for nursing (i.e. "Chemistry" vs "Chemistry for Nursing Majors", Physics vs Physics for nursing....etc....)

I for one am fed up with people bitching about the nursing shortage. Our healthcare system is sorely undermanned in every disclipine. Only through a national campaign of promoting "Nursing" has this become an issue for nurses. I wish people would wake up and realize that nurses are just one component of a healthcare system that is dependant on all of us care givers. Nurses are not the "be all and end all" of medicine...they are one leg of a team.

This may sound like sour grapes but, nurses, on the whole, are very ignorant of the other disiplines involved in health care....we have an acronym in the lab...SNT...guess what it stands for!!!!

I am not putting down nurses. I just wish people would wake up and realize that there is more to what goes on inside a hospital then what the nurses would have you believe.

[Horse with no Name]

54. The problem is with your field

That there are plenty of med techs out there. The problem is that the hospitals keep you short staffed intentionally. Our hospital laid 3 of them off.
I ordered a crucial STAT test on a newborn the other day. There is ONE lab tech during the night. ONE. For an entire hospital.
My stat order took EIGHT hours to get. The last time that happened, I had to ship the newborn for an exchange transfusion...which is why I put the test STAT this time instead of routine.
Anyways...I wrote incident reports on both situations and recommended to my colleagues that they do the same.
You guys won't get help unless we complain about it--and it isn't anything personal.

[TransitJohn]

60. Doesn't sound as hard as an engineering degree n/t

n/t