Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Man (93) freezes to death indoors, city limits flow of electricity due bills, indoor temp < 32

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:13 PM
Original message
Man (93) freezes to death indoors, city limits flow of electricity due bills, indoor temp < 32
Edited on Mon Jan-26-09 03:21 PM by Liberal_in_LA
indoor temp was less than 32!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-01-26-michigan-freeze-death_N.htm?csp=24&RM_Exclude=Juno

Michigan man, 93, froze to death indoors

BAY CITY, Michigan (AP) — A 93-year-old man froze to death inside his home, an autopsy has determined, just days after the city limited his flow of electricity for not paying his bills.

Marvin E. Schur died "a slow, painful death," said Kanu Virani, Oakland County's deputy chief medical examiner, who performed Schur's autopsy.

Neighbors discovered Schur's body on Jan. 17. The indoor temperature was below 32 degrees at the time, the neighbors told The Bay City Times for a story Monday.

Schur had no children, and his wife passed away several years ago.

The man had almost $1,100 in unpaid electric bills, said neighbor George Pauwels Jr., who discovered Schur's body.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. so horrible to treat people like this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Yes, it's a "horrible way to treat people". So, what are we going to do about it?
Where's the outrage?

Could this man's death have some meaning by mobilizing people to STOP this hateful practice???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Michigan reps should hear about this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
31. this just scratches the surface
See here for what is happening in Michigan -

http://socialistindependent.org/board/index.php?topic=10.0
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. So sad.
Here in Redding if you don't pay your bill they take your house. Seriously.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. outrageous. I hope to dog he didn't die in vain
and that the city will discontinue its abhorent practice of limiting electricity to the poor and elderly in dire straits.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. Below 32 is not 32 below.
Edited on Mon Jan-26-09 03:18 PM by JHB
Though in LA you don't get much practice with that part of the temperature scale, I guess.

Even an ordinary freezer won't be 32 below.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. It's not anything more than an accident of grammar.
:P

The English language can be confusing at times!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I was going to say! -32! Where was he?
Then I see he's in Michigan, and I thought, no, it hasn't been -32 in Michigan (unless you count wind chill but that wouldn't count inside).

Still it has been very very cold. When I walked my daughter to the bus stop this morning it was -2. If your house wasn't heated, you'd be in danger at that temperature.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. He said it was less than 32 degrees

Which is what the story said as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. You'll note that my post came before the OP was edited (compare time stamps)...
That's what was corrected.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Yes, I corrected it AFTER everyone informed me of my mistake.
:-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. Well, "below 32" is below freezing...
...and certainly not livable as an interior temperature.

What a tragic story, that an old man should freeze to death inside his own home because some heartless bureaucrat thinks it's okay to cut him off in the middle of winter for not paying his electricity bill.

What have we come to, really. We have thrown out the human element altogether in our rush for the almighty dollar -- which of course is not so almighty these days anyway.

Maybe the fall of our financial systems will give us the shock we need to come to our senses and remember who we really are.

Shocking, sad story. Like cali, I hope his death is not in vain and that it may spur people to action.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. $1,100 killed a man, granted an old man, but he would still be alive.
Edited on Mon Jan-26-09 03:18 PM by originalpckelly
WTF?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. That cannot happen here in WI by law in the winter months.
I must add though for those of us up north the number -32 has a much different meaning than simply below freezing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I see my mistake
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. True dat.
We had -28 here in EC last week. Fun! Not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. GOTTA GET THAT MONEY
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
my2sense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. There goes the "culture of life" bs n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is torture. This man was tortured to pay his bills...
The power company decided to torture him into paying his bills. Just like at GitMo, it didn't work.

Check out this sentence:
The utility installed a "limiter" device outside Schur's home on Jan. 13

What's the name of "the utility?" Who authorized the installation? Why withhold this information from the article?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. There is no excuse for this.
How in the hell do you limit the flow of electricity? Isn't it either on or off? What's the point, so they won't use much while in arrears?

Mr. Schur is in a better, happier place now. Shame on the cruel beings masquerading as people who would allow such a policy to be put into place!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Maybe they give you enough to run a couple of light bulbs
So that bill collectors and respossession folks can see to poke around the place once they drag you out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
17. It is amazing how fast the elderly can lost their ability to cope..
Our county gets notified when the electricity is shut off but I don't know how long they take to respond to it. The Salvation Army provides help. Does Michigan have a cold weather rule? LEAP funds are gone I hear.

Please check on your elderly neighbors from time to time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. Does anyone know what the utility was?
Private or public?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Public
owned by the citizens of Bay City. Read my post downthread for full information.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
20. Utility companies should not be allowed to turn off or down electricity during the winter. Some
states don't allow it, but apparently others don't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
22. In Bay City's defense
I was all ready to suggest we all email Bay City, and went online to find out more about it. Seems the city runs the utilities, including electricity--and has a link to agencies providing emergency services, including utility aid.

http://www.baycitymi.org/Utilities/Agency%20Form.pdf

But I have to wonder if the Bay City Electric Light & Power bothered to let this old fellow know about it. I know my 90 year old mother has no clue how to get online. Anyway, here's the webpage with information on how to get in contact with them:

http://www.baycitymi.org/Utilities/Electric/electric.htm

From a related page:

Bay City Electric, Light & Power (BCELP) is a municipal utility, owned by the City of Bay City, Michigan. We strive to offer value to our customers by providing reliable service at a competitive price.

BCELP has served the Bay City area since 1868 when it was known as the Bay City Gas Light Company. Today we serve over 20,000 customers in our service area which includes Bay City and the surrounding townships of Bangor, Frankenlust, Hampton, Monitor, and Portsmouth. The utility is one of 2,000 community owned electric utilities that serves more than 42 million Americans.

Delivering service to our customers requires more than 500 miles of overhead and underground distribution lines, fed from 10 distribution substations. Power is provided to these facilities from wholesale purchases, ownership of coal-fired generators Belle River and Campbell through the Michigan Public Power Agency, and local peak-shaving generating capacity at our Water Street and Henry Street plants.

At year-end, Bay City Electric, Light & Power owned and operated utility assets of $64 million with total annual revenues of approximately $25.6 million. BCELP currently has 44 employees to carryout the day to day operations of the utility including line construction and maintenance, line clearance, street light maintenance, generating plant operation and maintenance, metering installation and maintenance, service building upkeep, purchasing materials and supplies, and system planning functions.
http://www.baycitymi.org/Utilities/Electric/about%20us.htm





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
24. Ridiculous. Poor man makes it to 93, and then the city decides to do him in
in the dead of winter. Maybe they can still take their $1100 out of what little estate he had left. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
26. There are certain things for which there should be no
profit motive, water, heat and electricity are among those things. They should be part of the commons that Thom Hartmann talks about.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
37. agreed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Urban Prairie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
27. There is a law
against shutting off utilities in the winter season in MI but BCP&L and other utility companies, obviously have found a loophole to make it so that people can live right on the fine edge of survival, having perhaps JUST enough energy being provided each day to keep the home temp inside around maybe 65 degrees and nothing else, such as for light, bathing, washing, and cooking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zazen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
30. how telling, the $1100 that would have saved his life is less than Thain's $1400 wastebasket
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
32. Maybe he should not have been living independently
It seems he hasn't paid his electric bill for over a year ($1,100 is about my yearly bill), didn't know how to reset the limiter device, and didn't have the resources to call for help as he was getting worse.

I doubt the electric company knew this was a 93 year old man who couldn't care for himself. And they didn't cut off his electricity, just limited it.

These facts do not diminish the tragedy, but you cannot place all the blame in the hands of the energy company.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kaylee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Very sad. He had no children and his wife had passed.
Edited on Tue Jan-27-09 01:53 PM by Kaylee
It is unfortunate that no one (a neighbor, family member) checked on him regularly. Although, limited electricity should not mean that the indoor temperature can get below freezing. That is a heck of a limit!

Edit to say: Oh, he had to reset the limiter...pretty cruel that no one talked to him about it when they installed it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Not denying the tragedy...
don't know if no one talked to him about the limiter, therefore, can't say it is cruel.

Few 93 year olds can really function at an adult level, even those without a hint of dementia. They are unfortunately the last ones to face that fact, often fearing nursing home placement. There is a phobia of doctors and social services as well, again owing to a fear of loss of independence.

Without social support-- family, friends/neighbors, social services-- it is clear this person could not survive. Maybe he wanted it that way, maybe not. Sad, but not an isolated event. Just not often reported in the paper. This time it became news because of the electric company angle.

I live in New Hampshire, and during the 10 day power outtage from the storm in December, some of the small towns in our county had officers making courtesy calls on the elderly, bringing many in to the hospital and to shelters. But if it weren't for the storm, no one would be checking on them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
35. Many older seniors do not understand modern technology...
My daughter told me of a sad story about my ex-father in law in his late 80's

She journeyed with her mother to attend the funeral of her grandmother and was staying at her grandfathers house.

He had a dispute with the local trash company and was attempting to resolve it over the telephone. Being frustrated with the "press 1 if you speak English..." automated answering system the company used, he left an angry message. He had no idea that the company would never hear his message.

She called the company and talked to a live human after the typical hassle this usually involves. The problem was merely a clerical error involving the address.

Perhaps the 90 year old an attempted to talk to the power company, but never could reach a representative.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hologram Donating Member (277 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
36. This would be commonplace in Republicana.
Republicans have fought against Social Security and Medicare for decades. They would prefer the alternative which is to watch millions of senior citizens dying in the streets and in their homes of hypothermia or hunger or a fall on the ice (without any pain meds) or a simple infection that left untreated may be fatal. Anything is okay as long as they don't have to pay taxes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jtrockville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
38. For want of the price, of tea and a slice, the old man dies.
Us and them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Dec 27th 2024, 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC