57YO woman mauled in her driveway; Neighborhood pitbull breeder says "Stuff happens"

[KurtNYC]

Indianapolis police said the victim, Brenda Hill, 57, was taking out her trash when the two dogs blindsided her.
...
"The two dogs … got loose from the back yard of the (Carroll) home, attacked her and severely mauled her legs," said Indianapolis police Lt. Jerry Bipus. "One of her legs -- the right leg -- there is bone exposed, severe lacerations."
...
"It was an accident, man," Carroll said. "Stuff happens. I hated that it had to happen."
...
Police said they found nine pit bull puppies in Carroll's home.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/18566273/detail.html#-

Gotta love that attitude -- my dogs crippled you so it sucks to be you but hey, 'stuff happens' (and I've got 9 more where those 2 came from).

[John Q. Citizen]

1. Hopefully this Carroll guy has lots of assets.

[Egalitariat]

5. As a general rule, the more pitbulls the less assets

Mike Vick notwithstanding of course.

[John Q. Citizen]

26. Funny how that is, but i see your point.

[Contrary1]

40. This happened in a lower income neighborhood...

Unlikely that the guy would have many assets. It's also an area where the yards are small. No place for a pitt, fenced yard or not.

I live in Indy, which is why I know that.

[devilgrrl]

2. Let's see how Mr. Carroll feels when Animal Control puts down his dogs.

Stuff happens.

[spoony]

62. With a 'tude like that, he probably doesn't care

Yeah they may make him money, but that's all they are to him. He has no concern for the well-being of the, well, beings around him, human or otherwise.

[supernova]

3. That's exactly what I'm talking about

how come a neighbor minding her own business, has to pay for the stupidity and utter lack of compassion of the asshole neighbor?

[KurtNYC]

23. I suspect the neighbor isn't just stupid but is actually breeding pits for fighting

He had 1 male, 1 female and the 9 pups. And since pitbulls are worthless ($75/each) it seems unlikely he was breeding them for sale.

[EFerrari]

4. There's a pittie around the block that I've been avoiding for months now.

S/he may be just fine but her/his owners are druggie psychos. It's just a matter of time before someone gets hurt because I've never seen the dog out for a walk, not ever. And the dog will probably pay with its life, not the @ssholes who are the "owners".

[seabeyond]

11. i know you dont mean it like this, but i hear you and think..... forget the dog

it is the unsuspecting innocent person/child attack that will pay for it.

the emphasis always seems to be for the dog, ..... not often seeing the compassion for the persion attacked, in pain or dead. i just find that odd.

[EFerrari]

14. Well, believe me, I worry about getting mauled myself and about all the kids

and seniors and other folks that walk that block -- I worry about my own dog being attacked. I've even called the cops and asked about "wellfare" checks for that address.

These people are seriously not in control of their residence. Half of the time, I hear them screaming at each other when I have to walk by. There's alcohol and something else, some drug also involved. All I can think to do is talk to my neighbors and encourage them to call the cops if they see anything amiss that they can report. It feels bad to be sort of gunning for this couple but it's not like I can go knock on their door and talk to them. That would be too dangerous. :(

[seabeyond]

19. i lived with neighbor for 10 yrs. the first couple years it was three rots that roamed

in pack mentality. the dogs had been picked up so often that city kept them. after house was raided, drugs found, 53 guns, silencers, some machine guns and they got out of that trouble, we ended up with another 8 yrs of two pits.

it is hell to have that environment. we were regularly entertained with police there. and NEVER was anything done. i would watch people walk past the house, just in case i needed to call for help. i would direct the kids selling things, and others, door to door, not stopping at that house.

i am free.....

i hear ya

[Catherine Vincent]

6. Yeah, too bad the dog didn't maul his mother. Stuff happens.

Idiot.

[undeterred]

7. He should be left in a hungry tigers cage at the zoo for a few hours

so "stuff can happen".

[RamboLiberal]

8. These kind of owners need to be criminally charged

Also all the dogs should be removed from them and they should never be allowed to own dogs ever again! I'm sick of reading stories of these wack job owners dogs mauling and even killing children, elderly, other innocent people and animals. Guess we have to start carrying our guns and pepper spray any time we set foot outside our doors.

Its no wonder cities/counties and states are considering bans on pit bulls even if that may not be the solution to the problem.

Today this is in the news.

Dog attacks prompt cities to look at pit bull bans

MILWAUKEE (AP) — Jacqueline Sedlar and her 12-year-old daughter were walking home when the girl peered over a neighbor's fence and a pit bull took a chunk from her eyebrow.

Outraged, Sedlar contacted her city councilman, who introduced an ordinance banning pit bulls. But the mayor vetoed the ban in favor of an alternative "dangerous dog" ordinance that some say will be less effective in preventing attacks.

The controversy in the Milwaukee suburb of West Allis exemplifies the struggle communities nationwide face in trying to address dog attacks. Some have banned pit bulls — a broad term that covers several breeds — and other breeds they consider most dangerous. But other communities are trying to "punish the deed, not the breed" with ordinances focusing on dogs with violent histories.

-----

There's also no reliable data on whether some dogs are more likely to bite than others. A 2000 study cited by the CDC and other health agencies reports pit bull-type dogs were responsible for more bite-related deaths than other breeds from 1979 to 1998, but it cautions that may mean pit bulls are just more common than other types of dogs.

Still, that may help explain why pit bulls are the most frequent targets of proposals to ban or restrict specific breeds of dogs. The American Kennel Club reports 86 such proposals were introduced nationwide in the 2007-08 legislative season. Most were for municipal ordinances. It is not clear how many passed.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gDxKUMAvSf4Dgpi-8V4nKYjOY39AD95UNSK00

[Spangle]

13. Not the same type of story at all.

This woman was minding her own business and the dog come an attacked her.

The exact opposite was going on with that girl. Her and her MOTHER was walking and she trespassed onto a neighbors yard and stuck her face OVER the fence. She was doing all she could to get in the dogs PRIVATE space. The girl's mother should be charged for child endangerment. She was there, and allowed her daughter to do it. Then they should be charged with trespassing.

[RamboLiberal]

21. Hello - you should have a high enough fence that a curious kid

doesn't get her face ripped open by a dog if they happen to look over. Where the hell did the story say the mom &kid were trespassing. "girl peered over a neighbor's fence". That's BS you're peddling.

[Spangle]

31. Actually

They need to contain the dog. Which the owner did. The dog never left the lot. The fence contained the dog.

The article doesn't point out the errors of the girl or the mother. IT's about a dog attack which is more.. bloody and sells more papers then pointing out a neighbor allowed her kid to peek over fences and trespass.

Sadly, folks seem to think they are allowed to do as they please, no matter what. And if they are hurt, then someone should have built a better 'what ever' to protect them. Like now, you think the fence should be taller. If it was and she claimed on a box, then what? If she used a ladder, then what? AT some point folks need to say she should have stayed away from the yard that she didn't belong in. because she did not, this dog will be put down. All because he protected his 'space'.

Geezes, A guy got sued because a burglar got hurt while breaking into a home. It's just wrong.

All I am saying is that folks need to stop this idea that folks don't have to accept responsibility for being stupid.

[RamboLiberal]

36. I still put it on a dog owner to protect children from injury

Where in the story did you find trespassing? She might not have even been leaning very far at all over the fence. Pits have some great leaping/climbing ability. Fences can be right next to public sidewalks. Kids go close to fences sometimes before parents can even do anything. I don't expect the same responsibility or wisdom of kids that I expect from adults. The mom got enough attention in this case that her town's council passed a law against pit bulls so I doubt it was a simple the doggie jumped up and got her on the face.

You throw out false "what ifs". Your "what ifs" didn't happen so they have no bearing on the argument.

Yeah I'm a dog owner. And I have a 6 foot fence to keep my very friendly dog from doing anything like jumping even trying to play at a kid that gets close to my fence to see my doggie.

[seabeyond]

37. what if, wink... she was on her side of property line and dog forward jump motion put it

on HER side...

i hear ya.

at all cost people protect the dog, they blame the victim and express no compassion whatsoever for a persons pain and suffering.

i too take the responsibility for my pet with the consideration of all the things that MIGHT happen, insuring the safety of those that might come in the vicinity of MY dog. my job. my responsibility and just simply the right thing to do.

i am with you

[dionysus]

50. ding ding ding, we have a winner!

[KurtNYC]

30. I think it is no accident that these attacks have risen as the popularity of

underground dog fighting grows.

Cracking down on dog fighting needs to be part of the solution.

[Hekate]

9. Hmmm, the breeder gives a direct quote from Rumsfeld on the looting of Baghdad.

One murderous SOB looks up to an even bigger murderous SOB.

I hope the victim in this case makes a reasonably full recovery.

Hekate

[L0oniX]

10. If that had happened here I would have shot the dog ...no problem

In Florida with a CWP you are allowed to protect yourself and that's a good thing.

[seabeyond]

12. we had two pits next door. when i went out to mow i let hubby know

with the knowledge to bring gun and shoot dead if i screamed.....

damn straight

[Chulanowa]

15. "Breeder" my ass

And "had to happen"? Fuck you, man, lawsuits happen, too.

I'd hate to know what sort of shit he puts the dogs through.

[TheCowsCameHome]

29. I'll bet the dogs even look like him.

He's breeding, all right.

[scheming daemons]

16. Headline I want to see: "Pit Bull owner in Indianapolis beaten to death with a baseball bat"

...stuff happens, ya know.
;-)

[rateyes]

17. That's exactly what Donald Rumsfeld said about the looting in Iraq.

"Stuff happens." No matter that 1/3 of the country was destroyed because of that looting. No order to stop the looting. Nothing. Just "Stuff happens."

There should be some serious "stuff" that "happens" to jerks like Rumsfeld and the dog owner.

[Aristus]

18. There is some "blame the victim" bullshit going on in the comments section...

:puke:

[seabeyond]

20. she dared to antagonize the dogs by going outside her home afrter all.

probably screamed and bled which fed their attack more instead of "standing like a tree".

rollin eyes

[Spangle]

32. 2 different storys being talked about

This woman was just out side minding her own business. A different story is about a girl NOT minding her own business, but being noisy and got attacked.

[hedgehog]

69. I think you mean "nosey".

One of two things happened: either the girl heard all kinds of barking and growling and leaned over to see what was making all the noise or the dog came up quietly and bit her without warning.

[madrchsod]

22. she will at least own his house

if he has home insurance ...he`ll never have it again

[newfie11]

24. All to often this is the type of people that want aggressive dogs.

It is an ego trip. The victims and the dogs pay the price for that stupidity!

[TheCowsCameHome]

25. The owner needs a little bit of "stuff" to happen to him

[Deja Q]

28. More like "stuff" to be removed from him... And will his be more than a morsel?

Pit bulls do eat "stuff", right?

[Matariki]

27. "I hated that it had to happen"

got Empathy?

[flvegan]

33. Any other breed, and it wouldn't be news.

I love it.

Cretin shouldn't have dogs, especially not breeder pairs if he can't keep them secure. I hope she recovers fully.

[RebelOne]

46. You're right. Do we ever read about a cocker mauling someone? n/t

[Amelie]

65. I was bitten by a collie when I was a kid

Thing damn near took off the right side of my face. They sent him off for two weeks of aggression evaluation, and 35 years later, I still have faint scars. Didn't read about it in the paper, though. I guess "Lassie Rips off Face of Four Year Old" isn't good press.

[Berry Cool]

34. A pit bull bit my hand once, and I did NOTHING to it.

I lived in the top half of a house whose bottom half was occupied by a woman and her two pit bulls, and she had frequent visits from a boyfriend who also had one. I wasn't concerned about her dogs when I moved in; I believed her when she told me she raised them well and they were good dogs. I even met them and seemed to get along with them. But there was one that always seemed more aggressive to me than the other.

I shared the laundry facilities in the basement with this woman. To access the basement I had to go down the back stairs, which also led to the back porch, out of which she periodically let her dogs to do their business. Once I was going down to check on my laundry at the same time as she let her dogs out the back door. They smelled me--an intruder in their eyes, even though I had lived there for a long time--and came running, and I froze, stock still, arms at my side, figuring that waving my arms to shoo or provoke them would just make things worse.

The more aggressive one jumped at me and bit me on the hand anyway.

Luckily, she didn't break the skin, and didn't keep at it. Her owner ran right over and called her off, and apologized to me profusely, telling me that they both had all their shots and that she'd pay for me to see a doctor if I felt the need to. I told her I didn't, because there was no break, and also because I knew her, I knew she was telling me the truth about them having their shots. She wasn't an irresponsible owner, but damn, when her dogs were loose and I came down the back stairs, they considered me a home invader and one of them attacked even though I did nothing.

From then on, we made arrangements--if I needed to use the stairs, I called her, and she made sure the dogs were locked safely inside before I went.

I can't imagine the stupidity or lack of feeling of an owner who says "Stuff happens. I hated that it had to happen." No, "stuff" DOESN'T happen when you act responsible, and it didn't HAVE to happen--it happened because you were an irresponsible idiot!

[Madam Mossfern]

48. A German Shepherd bit my hand

a few months ago and drew blood. The owner apologized to me, but didn't discipline the dog. I guess we should ban all German Shepherds.

BTW, I live with a Pitbull. He's the sweetest dog in the universe! If you say "ow" when you're playing with him, he puts himself in his 'naughty corner'. Pitbulls are all muscle and one must be a responsible owner. But that goes for any dog.

This website may help:
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/welcome.php

[CRF450]

58. I was bitten by one of those too.

Several years as a young boy I was riding my bike to a friends house who lived about a mile away. Halfway their almost their was one house owned by some people who are total slobs, and had three German Shepherds that roamed around freely. They charged out to the road after me. I slowed down as all three of them were barking and running beside me, and then one of them just bites at the calf muscle of my left leg. The front canines grazed across the skin but was enough to give me a nice deep scar which I still have now after probably 8 or 9 years.

Their had been many complaints against those people about the dogs and they didn't do a damn thing what so ever until after I got bitten. People like that need to be dealt with harshly when offenses like that happen repeatedly! They do not care about anyone but themselves. Thats one thing my Uncle really hates, and he actually threatened to shoot those dogs lol.

[Bigmack]

35. When I was a kid....

newspapers were delivered by a neighborhood kid on a bike.

Our paper boy was about 17, and he had a huge route. Made a nice sum.

A neighborhood dog chased him a few times and finally bit his leg.

The dog died a few days later. The kid said to me "He must have gotten into some chocolate."

I didn't know that chocolate is poison to dogs until just a few years ago.

Not advocating anything, just showing surprise that neighbors don't figure a way to cool out the dog in those horrible situations before people get hurt.

[flvegan]

39. Yeah, you're not advocating a horrible, suffering death for an animal?

Just like I'm not telling you to go fuck yourself. Honestly, I'm not.

Fucking idiots. Surrounded by them.

[Bigmack]

44. And you, too....

I could never poison a dog... had dogs my whole life.

But...

Human life and safety is more important than dogs'.

As long as you think I'm an asshole for that... how about this? I'd never poison a dog that threatened my safety, or the safety of my family, I'd just shoot the fucking thing..

[flvegan]

57. How about talking to the owners first?

Maybe the police or animal control before poisoning the animal? Nah, rah rah fuckwad vigilante paper boy.

[CRF450]

59. My brother acually shot one to death.

A rotty charged at him into the street one day a few years ago. Just when it was going to lunge at him at full speed with teeth showing he quickly pulled out his pistol to shoot the dog before it attacked him, first bullet in the front chest, two in the stomach and the last one in the head. Sorry, I'd do the same thing if a dog was going to attack me, no questions asked.

[Bigmack]

61. We obviously came from a very different neighborhood...

Try "talking to the neighbor" in Detroit about his dog.

Then... move to a different city... fast!

[LisaL]

41. How much chocolate is the dog supposed to eat to get poisoned?

Cause back in the day I had no idea chocolate is poison to dogs and my dog lived a long life.

[bertman]

43. Yeah, another sad chocolate story: at age six, my lab got into my stepdaughter's

Halloween candy bag and ate enough chocolate to, well, kill a dog. Poor, sweet girl died of old age at 15.

That wasn't the only time she "sneaked" some chocolate either. She loved the stuff.

[Bigmack]

45. Dunno how much... never wanted to

find out. It is, tho. My wife is allergic to chocolate, so we just never have the stuff in the house.

Wait.. I just looked it up.

"It turns out that, for dogs, a chemical in chocolate called theobromine is the source of the problem. Theobromine is similar to caffeine. According to this page, theobromine is toxic to a dog when it ingests between 100 and 150 milligrams per kilogram of body weight.

Different types of chocolate contain different amounts of theobromine: It would take 20 ounces of milk chocolate to kill a 20-pound dog, but only 2 ounces of baker's chocolate or 6 ounces of semisweet chocolate. It is not that hard for a dog to get into something like an Easter basket full of chocolate eggs and bunnies and gobble up a pound or two of chocolate. If the dog is small, that could be deadly."

http://animals.howstuffworks.com/pets/question348.htm

[ProfessorGAC]

47. It Takes A Lot Of Chocolate

Of course, the littler the dog, the less it takes.

For most dogs, it just causes some diarrhea for a bit. But, most vets will tell you the chocolate thing is an exaggeration. Not good for them, but really not life threatening unless they eat a whole lot of it.
GAC

[BreweryYardRat]

52. And in some cases, the dog's instincts will kick in and save it.

In addition to the fact that the first poster's (not ProfGAC) idea is unethical, immoral, cruel, and based on an exaggeration, some dogs also have good enough instincts to save them from the effects of chocolate/theobromin poisoning, making the idea impractical as well.

Note: I'm getting this story second-hand, so I'm not sure how reliable it is.

A friend of one of my roomies had a small (apartment-sized) dog of some sort. Roomie's friend left a large sealed package of chocolate chip cookies out, and went out for several hours. Guy came home to find a soundly sleeping dog with its head on the remains of the package, and multiple piles of vomit nearby.

Dog had apparently broken into the package, gorged itself on cookies, and when the chocolate started to poison it, hurled the food up. Of course, since it had repeated the process several times, it wasn't a particularly smart dog, but it had good instincts.

[ProfessorGAC]

67. Our Vet Mentioned That Too

He's in his early 60's and has been practicing for more than 35 years and he told us he has never experienced a dog actually getting dangerously sick from chocolate. He would never suggest it's ok, just that nobody should freak out about it if a dog does get a little bit of it.

He probably has seen the same thing you described, with the doggie getting sick and losing the majority of the dose.
GAC

[Contrary1]

38. Unfortunately, these dogs will be euthanized.

Another black eye for pitt bulls...really pisses me off that people have animals that they have no business with.

[4 t 4]

42. More popcorn please

with salt if you have it. This movie will go on forever and ever and ever

[KurtNYC]

49. Yes, Here is Tuesday's pit bull attack...

http://www.kiiitv.com/news/local/38435754.html


On Padre Island, a woman and her little dog were walking down a neighborhood street this afternoon when one of two pit bulls attacked. Our Michael Gibson spoke with Betty Ivers who'd just been released from the hospital emergency room after her battle with a pit bull. She says she now has eight stitches and a number of bite marks on her hands and arms. 1/26/09

[aikoaiko]

51. And people wonder why some people carry concealed firearms.

I've grabbed my gun when a dog acted threatening. Fortunately, it just walked off after I growled/yelled at it, but it could have gone the other way.

[Dukkha]

53. That'd be my reaction after I put a bullet in the dog's head

"Hey, shit happens"

[seabeyond]

54. ya. n/t

[Vinca]

55. Ms. Hill won't have to worry about the neighbor for long because

after her attorney gets done with the Carrolls she'll own the house.

[Seedersandleechers]

56. The article says she was 68 years old

Not 57. Just saying.

[Jennicut]

60. Once again someone owning a breed of dog that they have no idea what to do with

Pit bulls can be well trained and non violent animals. Cesar Milan, the Dog Whisperer, has many pit bulls that he works with that are well behaved. This idiot obviously did not train the dogs right, sound like he has a little puppy mill going on in his house. The dogs will probably be put down now because of his incompetence.

[Terran]

63. Ya, stuff does happen.

And it's about to happen to all of this asshole's assets.

[Xenotime]

64. You should have to have a license to own a pit bull

[seabeyond]

66. i am totally opposed to implementing these type rules. that would work, lol.

people who really really want the animal can have them and love them, though it isnt a guarentee with these dogs. and IF there are ANY problems, then there is the threat to pull license and give cops some leeway in taking the dogs that are not with licensed owners away as they terrorize neighborhood.

[Adsos Letter]

68. "I hate it that it had to happen"...

It DIDN'T have to happen...epic fail right there...accompanied by some massive monetary award, and some jail time, hopefully.

[hedgehog]

70. I don't think it's a case of Nature OR Nurture, but rather

Nature and Nurture.

For example, no one in their right mid would keep a Border collie locked up in a small city apartment. Why? Because we all know Border collies are active herding dogs. That's Nature. Depending on how the animal is treated and trained, you could have a happy working animal or a neurotic pest.

Face it, some pit bulls have been bred to be aggressive and to bite hard. I say some because when the Michael Vick case hit last summer, one report (I think on NPR) indicated that it is difficult to breed for aggressiveness. It's a regressive trait. Unless the breeder is willing to cull the less aggressive dogs, eventually he ends up with friendly dogs.

That said, how many pit bull owners really have a decent breeding record on their dogs?

I wouldn't go out and get a pit bull. Neither would I go out and get a Cocker Spaniel. That breed was ruined some years back when puppy mills tried to meet the demand by breeding some nasty dogs. To this day, some Cockers are nasty.

[Contrary1]

71. Update:

"...The Marion County Prosecutor's Office on Friday filed four misdemeanor charges against Hill's neighbor and the owner of the dogs, Lee Carroll, including criminal dog bite liability and harboring a non-immunized animal.

Carroll apologized briefly after the incident.

"It was an accident man, stuff happens. I hated that it had to happen," he told reporters outside his home.

Hill's son said he was glad Carroll was being held responsible.

"Justice would look like those dogs being put down and the city of Indianapolis stopped dragging their feet and do something about this," said Greg Gilbert. "For him to receive some type of punishment, that would be justice for me."

The dogs were being held at Marion County Animal Control. Thomas reported that there had been no decision on their fate Friday night.

Doctors said Hill, who was still recovering at Wishard Memorial Hospital, will likely have several months of rehabilitation ahead of her. She said she expects to walk again, but that she won't return to her home.

"I don't ever want to live through nothing like that again," she said. "I would rather just go. It was that bad."

More, plus video: http://www.theindychannel.com/news/18607432/detail.html