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So I find myself asking myself, what makes one a liberal?

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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 05:16 PM
Original message
So I find myself asking myself, what makes one a liberal?
After posting here for over 4 years I see a lot of topics that keep coming up that induce flame wars, so I sat down and thought about my own positions on things and it got me to wondering if I was considered a liberal or not by the standards of others.

1. GLBT/Racism/Sexism/Etc.
I am in favor of gays being allowed to marry and enjoy the same rights as others. I feel that women should make the same as men, and I feel that racism in this country has handicapped those not white and male and that we need to keep adjustments in place until everyone is truly equal. I think as time goes on I see it less as racism and more as a class war, but even then a poor white guy has a leg up on a poor black/indian/gay/etc in many areas of the country. I also think there is such a thing as reverse discrimination and we should strive for equality of all no matter where the person is (to wit: in some parts of Columbus, Ohio, where I live a white guy would have a harder time getting a job at a small business than someone of color, and that is not right either IMHO).

2. Choices in your own life
From abortion to smoking to wearing a seat belt to...whatever, people have a choice in whom they associate with and what they do with their own bodies. You want to work where a business owner allows smoking, fine. If you want to work in a pharmacy where they dispense the morning after pill, fine. If you want to go to a food joint that uses trans fat versus one that does not, ok with me. You have choices in life, and limiting those choices limits your own personal freedom and that of others.
If you don't like something you should have a choice of opting out, if you like something that others don't you should have the right to congregate with those that do like the things you do. Whether that be on a personal level or business level it does not matter.

3. Guns
I used to work in the reloading industry and met many people across the globe who enjoyed guns and shooting for sport and fun (from South Africa to Australia to Italy to England, etc). Most people do not use guns for crime. I am all for sensible gun laws, but I think that thinking that most people will use guns to hurt you is a little off. If you live in an area where that is a problem and you want to make new laws regarding that, that is one thing. But thinking that a country of 300 million people spread across a vast area all need the same rules and laws is a little silly to me. A band aid for your issues may well be a wheel chair elsewhere.
I know many gun owners (I am not one currently) and none of them have ever done anything negative with them. Should they be punished for what others have done? There are already laws to punish people for robbery, murder, holding up banks, etc and so on - and such laws have not stopped the truly warped from doing such things. Home made bombs, guns, etc and so on will always be used by criminals no matter how many restrictions you place on such things. When did we let the minority dictate to the majority on these issues? MOST car owners don't run over people, but a good friend of mine three doors down killed a man (intentionally) who had killed his brother. He used his car to run him over.
Most gun owners don't use their guns to hurt others, but some do - should we punish all because of the few?

4. Health Care
I don't care how much I have to pay in income taxes or consumption taxes, I want to make sure everyone can get all the care they need. The war on terror (hell, all wars we have fought one might argue) are waged to protect us from being killed by others. More people die each year from poor health care (and the ability to get health care at all) than anything else. Stop spending money on wars and spend it on things which are really killing us, like not being able to afford our meds and treatment.

Overall
Your body, your choice. From assisted suicide to abortion to going to a bar where people smoke to owning a gun to wearing a seat belt to wearing a helmet on a motorcycle. From using condoms, to cheating on a spouse, marriage, etc and so on - YOU should have the right to make choices in your life, and so should others.

When you limit more and more the choices of others based on your own ideals and beliefs I see that as not liberal but as RW or even, at times, far left wing.

Fear sells and gets people to ban things or over regulate them. Whether it be based on religion or personal preference or experience.

Stay out of my life and my choices, remember that choice is something sacred - from having kids to not having them, from associating with like minded people who own guns or smoke, from drinking to eating meat, wearing seat belts to whatever.

Leave me and mine alone to make our own choices. My body, my choice. You don't have to own a gun, smoke, have abortions, limit how many kids you have, breastfeed, be a vegetarian, be a meat eater, etc and so on.

We are a melting pot of people and ideals. A big tent with one resounding theme - freedom to be yourself and make choices in your own life.

I may not like your choice, but I damn well like the ability you have to make that choice.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. In the 19th century liberalism started out a movement of valuing libery over folk customs
or the limitations of monarchial, property-based social heirarchies.
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. According to Rush if your not a Neocon or a right wing fundy then you are a liberal.
In other words if you are not an extreme right wing hack then you are a liberal.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't have time to read your entire OP right now...
Edited on Mon Jan-26-09 05:25 PM by JuniperLea
But one glaring issue stands out. The seat belt deal. It really isn't something that can be seen as a choice, because if there were an accident, and you died as opposed to merely being injured, the person who hit you, or their insurance, would be liable for a lot more money because of what you considered to be a choice.

And if you look at the big choice issues that get trotted out every election cycle, you should first realize they are trotted out every election cycle by those who have been in the position to easily CHANGE those items for the past 12+ years. Abortion, immigration, and guns are the top three, and the Republicans play those issues like a fiddle, and although they have had much time and support to change them, they did NOTHING! The issues themselves are worth more than the change they profess to want. These polarizing issues are ONLY used for just that: polarizing issues.

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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Funny how that works, huh?
They play the populace like a concert violinist...
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Even DU gets caught up in the arguments...
I'm not completely innocent in that regard myself! These are very emotional issues.

Dog and pony, smoke and mirrors, abortion, immigration and guns. All you need is greasepaint and some music, and it's vaudeville all over again.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Love that last line!!
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Hehe!
That came rolling off my fingers as if guided by a higher source~!

LOL!!

Like I was writing "Stairway to Heaven" or something! :rofl:
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. An I.Q. of three digits?
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NRaleighLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. I don't exactly agree with all of your points. I am very liberal...
but do not support guns and loathe smoking and don't think I should have to be subject to it.

I have a friend who is more a liberatarian, and his mantra is more in line with what you present. I am not bringing up smoking and guns to start an argument...I just think that some of these things comes down to personal experience and background and cuts across labels.
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ihatehannity Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. Just ask Sean Hannity
Here's his translation of liberal meanings

HILDA SOLIS, CALIFORNIA CONGRESSWOMAN: These are very unique circumstances that we're undertaking today, and my position as nominee for President-elect Obama to serve as secretary of labor doesn't, in my opinion, afford me the ability to provide you with an opinion at this time.

That is something that I would like to discuss with you further, but something that I'm not prepared to make a statement about at this time.

RelatedColumn Archive
Liberal Translation of Obama's Agenda'Hannity & Colmes' Pays Tribute to Over a Decade on FOX News ChannelIs Obama's Spending Proposal the Right Solution for America?Terrorism Expert: New York Times Siding With HamasOld Obama Interview Could Shed Light on Foreign Policy PlanFull-page Interview Archive

Video
Watch Hannity's America Show Info
Airs Weekdays at 9 p.m. ET
E-mail Sean: hannity@foxnews.com Sean Hannity's Bio Interview Archive (END VIDEO CLIP)

And of course there's the hypocrisy of Solis wanting to go behind closed doors to address the issue of preserving a secret vote for labor unions. Now it would be ridiculous if it weren't so predictable.

Liberal Translation

And in a segment called Liberal Translation — now you're going to hear liberals speak, but we'll tell you what they really mean.

For example, much like his Cabinet nominees, Mr. Obama is not a model of clarity. Now when hitting the talk show circuit this weekend, he seemed to have doubts about his ability to fulfill some of his campaign promises, specifically regarding the closure of Guantanamo Bay.

Now here's what he said, and what we think he really meant:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT-ELECT: It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize. And we are going to get it done.

(PAUSE)

LIBERAL TRANSLATION: Hmm… This is going to be harder than I thought…

(RESUME TAPE)

OBAMA: But part of the challenge that you have is that you've got a bunch of folks who have been detained, many of whom may be very dangerous, who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication, and some of the evidence against them may be tainted, even though it's true.

(PAUSE)

LIBERAL TRANSLATION: When I said I wanted to shut it down, I never thought about where we were going to put so many dangerous terrorists instead…

(RESUME TAPE)

OBAMA: And so how do we — how to balance creating a process that adheres to rule of law, habeas corpus, basic principles of Anglo American legal system…

(PAUSE)

LIBERAL TRANSLATION: I don't want to make the wrong decision and risk ending the world's love affair with me…

(RESUME TAPE)

OBAMA: …by doing it in a way that doesn't result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: So not necessarily first 100 days.

OBAMA: That is a challenge. I think it's going to take some time…

(PAUSE)

LIBERAL TRANSLATION: Maybe I should've thought this out a little more before making empty promises on the campaign trail…

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Libertyfirst Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. Brains.
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