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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 09:20 PM
Original message
Can Hugo Chavez Steal His Way To Safety?
<snip>

As energy revenues plunge and debt mounts, Venezuela's president swipes a U.S. oil rig. Expect more of the same.

This week, Venezuelan national oil company PDVSA seized control of an offshore drilling rig owned by Dallas-based Ensco International. It was an audacious move that reflects the slow-motion breakdown of one of the world's biggest state-owned oil companies. PDVSA subsidiary Petrosucre is in arrears on $35.5 million it owes Ensco for drilling services; the Ensco 69 rig is under contract through August 2010 at a rate of $185,000 a day.

Ensco is but one of many contractors waiting to get paid. As its revenues plunged with the price of crude, PDVSA has, in recent months, reportedly built up $8 billion in unpaid debts to suppliers like Schlumberger (nyse: SLB - news - people ) and Halliburton (nyse: HAL - news - people ). Another drilling company, Tulsa, Okla.-based Helmerich & Payne (nyse: HP - news - people ), announced Thursday that PDVSA owes it $100 million. Helmerich idled two of its five rigs in Venezuela and says the other three will likely stop work within weeks.

This is the natural progression of President Hugo Chávez nationalizing the assets of some Western oil companies in Venezuela. Why pay for something when you can simply steal it? Chávez needs all the cash he can muster to keep up his lavish social programs ahead of a Feb. 15 national referendum that will determine whether he is legally allowed to seek a third term.

<snip>

More at: http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/30/hugo-chavez-venezuela-oil-business-energy-0130_oil_rig.html?feed=rss_news
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good for Hugo. My heart bleeds for the oil companies.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. "Hands Off The Windfall Oil Profits" by the author of your story
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. And nobody read this article to comment on it?

This guy is a right wing hack for the oil companies
and a climate change denier
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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #25
47. Are you denying the reporting in the article?
Do you approve of government-santioned theft?
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #47
54. "Do you approve of corporate-santioned theft?"


I think there is a need for dialogue with
the world's corporate leaders as you suggest
before there is an uprising.

Academically, speaking as a Political Scientist
I find your analysis representing a misinformed
conjecture that rationalizes the neo-liberal viewpoint
that has been proven wrong in this crisis.

You are really not very informed on
the sociological, historical, economic dependences
that has hindered the development of a Colonial State
and Continent.

Study Chile, Argentina and Paraguay which gave way to
the development of totalitarian states.

Your world is an island in your mind.
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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #54
72. Political "scientist", eh?
I'll call your political science degree and raise you a physics degree. I've got one of each.

I daresay my knowledge about sociological, historical, and economic matters has also been accumulated by living, working, and visiting foreign countries for many years. That, and owning foreign property in South America for a couple of decades now.

So I'd say that your claim that I am "really not very informed" is really not very informed.
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anaxarchos Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #47
88. "Do you approve of government-santioned theft?"
Do you?

In the case which you have chosen to direct your "outrage", the answer is yes... absolutely.

I suspect that I'm not the only theft-sanctioner.

Terrible, ain't it?
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
71. this guy is a nut
does big oil pay him for this bullshit?

<snip>

A windfall profits tax on the oil industry would be a disaster to America's long-term energy health. It would give companies big incentive to simply reduce investment in gas-guzzling America and instead focus on getting oil and gas to the fast growing populations of China and India. And what happens if and when the oil patch goes bust? Will taxpayers then subsidize Chevron's (nyse: CVX - news - people ) losses?

It's simply un-American to penalize a person or a company for acting on a bright idea. It's no secret that oil and gas are commodities vital to the continued operation of modern society. Oil companies just had the foresight to go out and look for the stuff.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #71
81. He also seems to be a liar because I found an article that says
Edited on Sat Jan-31-09 02:25 PM by sfexpat2000
the take over is temporary and that there are negotiations underway. That seems to be the last hard news on this situation and that report is dated two days before the one in the OP, and so was available to the nutcase that wrote it.

ETA: I put the link in #70.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Forbes.
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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thievery is thievery
Hugo will discover that he's condemning Venezuela to a future without international investments.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yeah Exxon is your boy huh?


Give me a break.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Few understand the long term impacts of such actions
Other companies and nations will now see Chavez and Venezuela as thieves and not to be trusted. They will now have to pay cash for things, outright purchase rather than leasing, that kind of thing. The costs will be long term and much higher. The people of Venezuela will suffer for this in the long term.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Boy is that a hard core progressive stance

The people of Venezuela won't suffer and you have no proof of that.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Actually there is extensive historical evidence that seizures raise prices to that nation
Edited on Fri Jan-30-09 10:40 PM by HardcoreProgressive
and for that the people will suffer in the long run. Every country that nationalized investments or sized assets without compensation has had a harder time get new investors and loans. Its not something that gets easily forgotten.

Protecting the people from the government is a very progressive position. Not all the stupid governments have a Bush in charge.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I imagine if you asked the people of Latin America, they'd say they've have enough
of the US "protecting them" from their governments.

lol
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. True, but that not the issue here. When Gov abrogate agreements, they find fewer people willing to
do business with them in the future and those that do will charge more. Yes this was a oil platform, and the oil biz is pretty sleazy all the way round, but such actions will ripple through other industries and market segments. Its an historical certainty that the people will suffer for this.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I seriously doubt Venezuela will have any trouble from this at all
sitting on all that oil and being a burr in the side of the US. This is more anti-Chavez drum beating, whether it's true or not. For that matter, Chavez has given market value in return for the operations he's nationalized so far. This is a non-issue but our friend enjoys trying to stir up anti-Chavez feeling because he forgets that at DU, people actually read stuff.
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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #33
45. Whether it's true or not? Do you dispute the reporting in the article?
Guesss you must not be one of those people that actually read stuff.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #45
59. It's really your responsibility to know whether or not you're posting hit pieces, not mine. n/t
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #23
53. Yes. When a nation goes socialist
the business establishment around the world tends to take punitive measures to make things more difficult until there's a new government more to their liking.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #53
69. Its not the gov, its the actions they take, fascist or socialist there are repercussions
Glad to see there are a few out there that understand what may well follow this.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
64. That's really deep, by golly. Here's a story on France's Total's expanding Venezuelan operations.
Venezuela Restarts Talks With a Foreign Oil Firm
By SPENCER SWARTZ

DAVOS, Switzerland -- Total SA Chairman Thierry Desmarest said the French oil giant is in fresh talks with the Venezuela government about expanding its operations in the South American nation.

"We are just at the beginning" of discussions, Mr. Desmarest said on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum. "If Venezuela wants to offer opportunities on reasonable terms, of course we will look to those possibilities," he said, declining to provide further details.

Like several other Western oil companies, Total was burned two years ago in Venezuela after President Hugo Chávez nationalized much of the petroleum sector.

In February 2008, Venezuela said it would give Total $834 million in compensation for agreeing to take a minority stake in a new state-controlled company, PetroCedeno. That company took control of the operations of Sincor, in which Total had held a 47% interest.

~snip~
"I think that the new context , efficiency in managing huge projects is a critical issue and a good combination between national oil companies and international oil companies can lead to real efficiencies," he said.

Mr. Desmarest said he also believed Total, which reports earnings next week, would maintain capital expenditure this year at levels on par with 2008, when the company pumped roughly $20 billion into its drilling and refining operations. "Our intention is to continue to have very substantial capital expenditure."

"Ten years ago we had the same problem of oil prices going down and many companies cut investment. We {Total} didn't. We felt {the sharp price drop} was just transitory and it was a good decision Total made. We developed capacity in the low price environment and prices eventually recovered," he said.

More:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123332492121233329.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
92. Nationalization is not thievery
Private property is only protected so much as the laws say it should be protected. Even the US Constitution has an eminent domain clause in it. And while the government is required to compensate people many would argue that the compensation isn't always adequate.

Anybody who invests in Venezuela or anywhere else in Latin America has to accept the risk that after decades of US intervention, odds are good that socialists like Chavez will come to power and will nationalize things.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. good for hugo, screw those texas scumbags
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. he (allegedly) cheated Halliburton?? my respect for him went up another 2,000 points
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yeah, like Hallibuton and Dick Cheney are angels and spread the wealth.
Unbelievable post.


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navarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. I got it. Hugo Chavez = BAD Oil companies = GOOD. thanks. eom
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
93. Do you think that only good people deserve the protection of the law?
Edited on Sun Feb-01-09 07:10 AM by Donald Ian Rankin
When A steals something that belongs to B, pointing out that otherwise A is a good person and B is a bad one isn't relevant. Charity volunteers still don't get to steal from people who kick puppies; that's what is meant by "the rule of law".

Quite apart from the moral issues, stupidity like this will make other companies even more unwilling than they already are to do business with Venezuela, and make them demand higher profit margins when they do.

Government theft always, always turns out to be bad for the country doing it in the long run.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. Chavez's political structure requires a continuous large-scale influx of cash,
as he tempers his occasional iron fist with benevolent (but expensive) social programs. If oil continues to be cheap, he's going to need to increase oil production, and the cheapest way to do that in the short term is to simply nationalize everything he can get his hands on.

Russia's energy autocracy at least has natural gas to fall back on; they have a near-monopoly of supply for the European market, and demand doesn't fluctuate much.
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Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. Of course. Why should the people of Venezuela...
benefit from the oil of Venezuela, when there are oil company investors who need their dividend checks?

Not for nothing, but this article is a hit piece, rife with errors.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. That does not excuse the abrogation of an agreement sign with a private company by the gov.
of Venezuela.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Halliburton should Sue
poor babies
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. Why can't Hugo be more like the Pentagon? KBR electrocutes our service people
and we keep giving them new contracts. Now, THAT is how real men do business!
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Yes, KBR the stepchild of Halliburton

might get ripped off too.

Neo-liberalism and international corporations
defenders on this thead.
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Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Really? Can you really consider what that means...
if you apply the same standard to a corporation, or to the US government?

Right. It's laughable.

I wonder when these contracts were signed. Was it Chavez who signed them?
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. It was with the state owned oil company, so presumptively it had his permission
The key issue here is that these kinds of actions lead to capital flight and the unwillingness of the international community to do business with that nation. That hurts the people in the long run. Its a big picture/long term view.

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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. South America is not playing by the old neo-liberal rules anymore

Which upsets some right now.
The Mercosur trade group is changing all that.
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Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #24
65. That is a bit mis leading
Capital flight is indeed a risk, although I would imagine that what Hugo has done over the last five years would have had much more of an effect than this one incident.

I have a suspicion that when we actually hear both sides of this particular story we are going to find out that this company was siphoning off oil, or some such thing. Just a guess.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #65
70. They seem to be reneotiating the contract.
Senior representatives of Ensco and Petrosucre currently are engaged in discussions and exchanging correspondence regarding their respective contractual rights and obligations.

Dan Rabun, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer of Ensco, commented, "We have a long history of successful operations in Venezuela and have maintained a strong working relationship with PDVSA over many years. We remain committed to providing the same standard of safe and reliable services to PDVSA as we have in the past, and we are hopeful that the situation involving ENSCO 69 soon can be resolved to the mutual satisfaction of Petrosucre and Ensco."

http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=72270
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #70
90. Thanks for locating this link. Very helpful. Nothing helps like the truth! n/t
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
16. Gasp!1 Did Saint Hugo get "elected" for LIFE?!1 What happened?!1
Isn't there an Huguito forum somewhere to spare GD?!1
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Exxon, Haliburton get ripped off
and some are crying about it.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I love you, Mickey! Scam the oil industry all you can. eom
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
20. Oil prices going down are hurting the big Hugo. Bet the budget
really sucks now.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
39. Unlike the US
The budget of Ven. is used to give health care, feed & educate the people.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #39
78. Chavez is a friggin saint!
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #78
89. Yeah, that's what I said
:eyes:
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
21. TG if you ever worked the oilfields. Thievery like this is common place.
Edited on Fri Jan-30-09 10:29 PM by Arctic Dave
The saying is, "a way to tell you have good hand is by what they bring back from the job, not to it".

Another saying is, "never trust an oilman".
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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
38. Yeah sure
Stealing offshore oil rigs happens all the time.

Riiightttt...
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #38
44. Portable housing, heavy equipment, power generators. You name it.
If you want a drilling sub structure I know were to get one. The Navy abandoned it thirty years ago and it has been sitting collecting rust ever since. If you have access to a flat bet truck you can drive away with any piece of oilfield equipment of your choosing if you are inclined.
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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. OK. Load me up that offshore oil platform
Well, no. Never mind. I am not so inclined.

I don't condone thievery.
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madville Donating Member (743 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
22. This guy is funny
I'm sure foreign oil companies will be lining up to lease him equipment in the future.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
26. They say he owes them $100 million, he says they owe him the oil rig.
Who to choose, who to choose?
:popcorn::popcorn:
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crimsonblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
29. What a douchebag. n/t
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
34. Not only does Hugo Chavez steal everything in sight, he eats babies too!!!!!!!!
:popcorn:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Yeah! And Venezuela donates heating oil to poor Americans just to piss us off!
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
35. Obama should be taking cues from Chavez
and nationalize the banks and financial institutions who took our money yet gave extravagant bonuses to the same execs who made the bad decisions to begin with.
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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Brilliant suggestion
Obama should be taking Chavez' advice, because Hugo is so much smarter.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #35
43. Good idea. I wouldn't mind paying for everything as long as the gov't owned the banks. nt
Edited on Sat Jan-31-09 12:31 AM by anonymous171
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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
37. It's interesting to see
all the santimonious Chavistas now bleating their approval for government-sanctioned thievery.

Since there's a decided lack of refineries that can process Venezuela's heavy crude, Hugo may soon find out -- to his dismay -- that his actions have unintended consequences.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. What a gracious host you are, Zorro. n/t
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #37
48. Wait for me. I didn't get a chance to bleat my sanctimonious Chavista approval
Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #37
50. hey, they benefit from gov't sanctioned thievery in iraq & the us - losing by it in ven. just
evens the score a bit.
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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. So you're OK with government-sanctioned thievery in Iraq?
Not me.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. then why are you posting on chavez?
god knows there's plenty of targets here.

one mafioso breaks a "contract" with another over how to divy the loot they stole from widows & orphans.

who cares?

there's no rule of law among thieves, & abrogating a contract with crooks doesn't threaten the rule of law. Their world is ruled by whoever's got the biggest guns, & the oil corps use theirs whenever they can get away with it. fuck em.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #37
61. It's interesting to see the Big Oil defenders trashing a socialist hero
How dare that Chavez pig stand up to the Big Oil companies who are plundering oil from Venezuelan waters?

:sarcasm:
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
42. Meh... get a life
and a new hobby.

"Tormenting pro-FARC, pro-Chavez, pro-Castro bullies" is so last decade. Think up a new one. :P
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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #42
51. OK
How about "Educating pro-FARC, pro-Chavez, pro-Castro bullies"?

I suspect you could use some education.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #51
67. I agree, one can always use more education
what are your credentials, professor?

:evilgrin:
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
46. Fuck Chavez. He's An Ignorant Scumbag.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #46
66. Right. So ignorant - food and health care for people over oil exec profits -
what could be more stupid? Why doesn't he just turn over the country to United Fruit, like they used to do in the good old days?
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
56. Fucking Republican Forbes distortions..."Lavish social programs"...The rich
Edited on Sat Jan-31-09 01:30 AM by LaPera
republicans and Forbes will be saying the same about Obama & the democrats if they take a dime from the corporations for fair share of taxes to help our gutted social programs....These cocksucker republican corporatist don't want to help workers even a tiny bit, THEY JUST WANT TO STOP & BREAK UNIONS, THE WORKERS ONLY VOICE...

The republicans have no feeling, living their "lavished" lifestyles in their mansions and gated communities not caring a bit about people cold on the streets out of work....Exxon pulls in 45 billion this last quarter and Forbes is crying about nationalizing for his people and his social programs....

The corporations certainly don't care that they made hundreds of billions, enjoying government subsidies and tax cuts, wars for profit, then putting their bucks in off-shore accounts to avoid taxes & job purging to cheaper labor markets, then they come begging for bailouts - But corporate socialism for the rich is OK though. All from workers taxes and Forbes want to blame "lavish social programs" Who gave their CEO's 18.,6 billion in bonuses last year and then they came begging (demanding) the workers taxes for well over a trillion dollars....

Cheers to Chavez! And thank you for the oil for heat for our poor in the US!

Nationalize everything from these republican corporations who for so many decades stole oil & everything else from the people of Venezuela and the rest of Latin America! No wonder why the idiot, ignorant, elitist Bush wanted to kill Chavez for his oil buddies and for the corporations to take over and enslave the Venezuelan people to again stealing their resources and cheap labor, exploit & polluting their environment as well!

FUCK THE REPUBLICAN FORBES MAGAZINE VOICE FOR THE CORPORATE RICH!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. Lavish social programs = lunch for school children.
Oh, that crazy Chavez and his wild excesses! :crazy:
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
58. Forbes? I think they invented theft in South Americ. n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. Duzy!
:)
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taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
62. Fuck this shithead
First he fuckes over Conoco Phillips in the Oronoco oil field and now this.
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. Yes, and the oil companies can do and have done absolutely no wrong.
Edited on Sat Jan-31-09 05:43 AM by GreenTea
They are just innocent saints trying to help?

Who does the oil belong to, Conoco?

Venezuela is a poor country that has oil as their main resource and it should benefit their people completely, they own it.

What have the oil companies done in Iraq and other countries, does the oil belong to them, or is it just easier to steal via our military might to gouch us at the pumps for huge profits as they have, they never have any mercy on consumers or actual owners of the oil. It's all about big profits for them.

They use our military, that we pay for to swipe the oil for the oil companies, pay off some right-wing dictator the CIA puts in power, which has always been the case.

If BushCo had their usual right-wing puppets in power, getting rich, screwing the people, while giving sweetheart deals to the oil companies to gouch us even further for record profits, how would that help you or the Venezuelan people?

You really believe in the Reagan trickled down theory for the Venezuelans too, and that the oil corporations are really there to help them?

Just research it for yourself how the standard of living, literacy, health care, jobs have all increased since the elected Chavez took office than before.

It's really all about oil and ideology (socialism) the taboo ideology the wealthy only want to allow and have for themselves.

So then why did "W" plan the coup against Chavez, to help the people of Venezuela? Or to control the flow of oil and keep the same sweet ridiculous oil company rip-offs continuing as before and suppressing/oppressing the Venezuelan people on top of it?

The oil companies have no soul; it's all about profit, certainly not for anyone else but themselves.

You choose to believe some written slanted corporate ideology instead?

Well then the ditto-heads are waiting for you at HQ because they all believe everything the corporate angle tells them.

"Oil corporations good - Socialism bad.......for YOU"!

:puke:
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
68. I thought "Zorro" was a champion of the poor?
Or is this the new, improved, NeoCon version?
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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #68
75. Do you approve of government-sanctioned theft?
Is thievery a "virtue" that the poor should be encouraged to pursue?

I condemn all forms of thievery, whether it is committed by people, companies, or governments.

But what is disturbing is to witness so many willfully excusing any unprincipled actions sanctioned by Chavez.

It's the same disturbing mindset displayed by dead-end Bush lovers.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. If there are any "theives" in the story it is the profiteering oil companies
Edited on Sat Jan-31-09 01:19 PM by bread_and_roses
we don't all accept your definitions. They built their profit empires on destruction and exploitation - of people, the environment, whole economies, countries - but the people of Venezuela are "thieves?" Riiiightttttt.
edit: sp
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. If thievery is the only option that will save them from starvation or death, then yes.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. What a huge crock of crap. As I posted above, the contract is now being
renegotiated.

Gee, what a surprise, Zorro.
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
73. Wasn't it Hugo Chavez who gave free heating oil to Seniors in the Northeast?
Sounds OK to me? What has the U.S. Govt done for anyone lately?

(I mean anyone who makes less than $1 million per year)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #73
80. Is giving. n/t
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
74. Cool!
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
82. ENSCO shut down operations on the rig
PDVSA took control of it to keep it operating. PDVSA isn't simply refusing to pay the money they owe ENSCO, it is a dispute over what form that payment should be in. Negotiations continue in an attempt to settle the matter.

As someone who claims a degree in Political Science you should be ashamed to post such a blatantly biased hit piece. I can see however that you have not used your education to increase your objectivity, but rather to reinforce a set of prejudices you no doubt have had from the beginning.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Exactly. I didn't find it until this morning but that information was out Wednesday
-- before the article in the OP was written and certainly available to the OP had his intention been to inform us.

One of the reasons I started supporting Chavez was as a consequence of these threads. I read the OP and go off to verify and it's always bs.

Mr. Chavez thanks Zorro!
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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. Well duhhh...
Apparently you know even less about business than you do about politics.

PDVSA won't pay its bills. ENSCO stops pumping oil. PDVSA takes over ENSCO's rig. Can you figure out who's got the upper hand here?

Of course ENSCO will publicly state their willingness to negotiate. There are millions of dollars in compensation at stake, and Chavez has already demonstrated his tendency to stiff foreign companies by taking them over and daring them to go to court.

Ruminate on this current article:

<snip>

Chavez dares Ternium to sue over payment on Sidor nationalization

President Hugo Chavez on Friday all but dared the former owners of a steel maker he nationalized last year to sue his government for payment.

"Let them take us to court. If they do, worse for them," Chavez said, referring to Ternium SA, a subsidiary of the Argentine-Italian conglomerate Techint, which owned a 60 percent stake in Venezuelan steelmaker Sidor...

<snip>

More at: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090130/lt_venezuela_chavez_sidor.html?.v=1
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. You posted a biased hit piece and now you're bitching at me?
Venezuela has been trying to offer compensation for the nationalization of Sidor since early last year. Ternium is demanding too much. They aren't getting what they demand. Now I know in your mind that's just another example of Chavez "stealing" things, but it actually isn't. BTW, the drive to nationalize Sidor originated due to a labor dispute, one in which you seem to have chosen the side of management.

Prior Venezuelan governments have often offered sweetheart deals to foreign investors who were more than happy to exploit Venezuela's natural resources while both government and foreign capital screwed the Venezuelan labor they employed. Now Venezuela has a government that actually tries to PROTECT it's citizens from this sort of exploitation, and apparently this really chaps your ass. I say good. I like you better when your ass is all red.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. LOL!
We're witnessing the opening moves in the soon to be continuous smear in the run up to the Feb 15 referendum. By this time next week, Chavez will be eating kittens with both hands.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
84. One last kick because the OP has not responded to the fact that nothing has been stolen
at all and this is bs as usual.

No comment, Zorro?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
91. StatoilHydro says Venezuela payments not delayed
StatoilHydro says Venezuela payments not delayed
Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:42pm GMT

OSLO, Jan 30 (Reuters) - Norwegian oil and gas producer StatoilHydro (STL.OL), a partner in a big Venezuela heavy oil project, said it has not seen any delays in financial dealings with companies in the South American country.

This week Venezuela seized a rig owned by ENSCO International (ESV.N) after the U.S. company halted operations because of unpaid pills, stoking concern over the future of Venezuela's state-controlled oil sector.

In an email reply to Reuters questions on Friday, StatoilHydro said it had not noticed any delays in financial dealings with Venezuelan state oil group PDVSA or any other of its partners in the OPEC member state.

"StatoilHydro have been present (in Venezuela) since 1995 and our commitment is for the long run," StatoilHydro said.

More:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKLU8267320090130
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