Alright DUers, I need some advice.

[Narkos]

I have some EXTREMELY right wing in-laws (my wife's sister and her husband)that we just visited for the Christmas holidays in Nashville. Imagine this...guest room is a veritable shrine to wingnut-o-philia, every wingnut book you can possibly imagine, and personally autographed photo of the Chimp. Sitting on the coffee table? Oh yeah, a book called "The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness." I went into the situation realizing that politics would come up, but vowed that I wouldn't get into it with my BIL. Needless to say, we ALL got into it bad (BIL and FIL started it), and it was a very difficult visit. Fortunately we sort of patched it up, but there was some damage done.

Here's the problem: in spite of all of this, my in-laws want us to move down there! I think my wife would definitely like to be closer to her sister, so I've given it some serious thought. I've done some homework, looked at the job market, and figured that it was a possibility. After our almost disastrous last visit, I've had second thoughts. Today, after viewing my BIL's Facebook page, I think I've concluded that there is no way in hell that we are moving close to those people. He started a silly right wing "cause" on Facebook that purports to be "Pro-God, Pro-Guns, Pro-Capitalism, Pro-America, etc etc etc.) Oh, and it also states that liberalism is a mental disorder. It's ridiculous, it's him and 2 other people.

Soon I will have to make a decision about where to move (I'm in the Army and getting out), but I don't know if I want to live next door to these people. I get along with them fine if we just don't talk politics, but my BIL seriously can't help himself. Regardless, they actually believe that anyone who doesn't think like them is mentally ill. I don't want my kids growing up around that kind of intolerance!

I've thought about shooting my BIL an e-mail, and flat out telling him that hey, visiting once or twice a year is cool, but we're not planning on moving to Nashville. I think I may even just tell him why. What do you guys think? Is this going over board?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. I think your email idea is a very good one.

After all, he's the one who brings up the right-wing claptrap. I sure as hell would NOT move near any of those people.

I wouldn't bother telling him why you won't move there...he wouldn't get it, and it would just be fuel on the fire...

Just my two cents...

Good luck!

:hi:

[Narkos]

3. Thanks for the advice Peggy.

I'm pretty sure that we won't be moving there.

;)

[boomerbust]

2. I would settle

Elsewhere.:think:

[supernova]

4. Consider Asheville

:D

You'd be closer, but not so close they you have to see each other that frequently. You'd be in liberal heaven. ;-)

[Narkos]

7. Asheville NC? I'll have to check it out.

[supernova]

17. It's about 234 miles

between the two.

I wouldn't suggest Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge TN area because that's Dollywood country. Dollywood is kinda fun if you're in a certain frame of mind. But I wouldn't want to live near there. Way too much traffic.

[Narkos]

31. 234 miles sound EXTREMELY reasonable to me!

[Dr.Phool]

37. Two women, who worked with my wife, just moved to Asheville.

They were married legally to each other in Canada. They said it's the San Francisco of the East. Very progressive. I'm looking forward to visiting them there.

[pacalo]

25. You forgot to tell him how beautiful it is there.

:)

[canetoad]

5. Personally,

I never go and sit on ant nests because it would annoy the shit out of me and I know I'm not going to change the ants behaviour.

There are pros and cons for this move. Write a list of each, discuss fully with your wife and make a cool and rational choice whether you can live like this or not.

[Narkos]

8. Ultimately you're right.

I'm worried that my wife may trump me on this.

[pacalo]

28. If you can talk frankly about this with your wife, emphasize how you'd like to keep

harmony in the family. With such opposite views & out-spokenness of your in-laws, it's better to keep your distance. It sure would be hard to keep the peace, given the heavy-handed demonstrative exhibitions (or shrines) throughout your SIL/BIL's home; they're begging for discussion.

[Narkos]

33. We've discussed it many times

and she's just as disgusted with their outward political displays and outbursts as I am. As a matter of fact, one of the "blow-outs" during our recent visit was between my wife and her sister! It was unusual because my wife is not the political junkie that I am, but my SIL really made nasty comment about liberals and global warming that really rankled my wife. On the other hand, my wife has close emotional ties with her sister that I have to respect, making this kind of difficult. I like the Asheville idea though!

[Dr.Phool]

39. I'm in pretty much the same situation.

We moved from Cleveland to Tampa, next door to her sister. They're very conservative, pro-life and right-wing. They're also the nicest people on the planet. Just seriously misguided.

I have one rule. They bring up politics, I don't answer. If they keep it up (we have a lot of cocktails together), I leave.

We get along fine.

But, they don't think I'm mentally ill either.

[Narkos]

41. Right next door? You must have nerves of steel

I don't know if I could do that. It's funny, I have many conservative friends who I get along with great. My parents are conservative too, they're just not so damn reactionary about it like my in-laws are. So you seriously just walk out if politics comes up, huh? Wow, that's pretty cool. I struggle with wanting to verbally lambaste right wingers and their talking points. Not sure if I could just walk out, but it probably is the best solution.

[Dr.Phool]

48. It keeps the peace.

They know my views (I'm an activist, former DEC member, Congressional Candidate, and I run occasional campaigns), and I'm pretty far left.

But, they do always keep plenty of Stoli on hand for when I go over, and I stay well supplied with their scotch. :beer:

[SharonAnn]

6. In defense of Nashville, there's a strong Democratic presence there.

It's here in East Tennessee that the right-wing nuts are just about everywhere. There are only a few "safe" neighborhoods.

Just because you move to Nashville (it's a big city) doesn't mean you have to live anywhere near your BIL or FIL. Also, if your wife wants to visit them frequently that doesn't mean you have to.

Oh, and I'm a big believer now in telling people why I won't join them when it's "political intimidation" like what you describe. I don't argue it. I just say "I prefer not to discuss politics with you and it seems like there's no way to avoid that. Will it change them? Perhaps not, but they'll be who they are and you need to be who you are. And they need to learn to respect it. Will they learn? Perhaps not, but at least you provided them with the opportunity to learn.

[Narkos]

11. We checked out Franklin and some other areas

and I saw quite a few Obama signs around. I'm sure we could find a suitable area ( I currently live in a pretty conservative town right now). I'm worried that if we get down there and establish roots, that we end up actually destroying our relationship with our in-laws, and then what?

[4lbs]

13. That is correct. In the election, more people in Nashville voted for Obama than did McCain.

http://www.nashville.gov/vote/returns/081104.htm

Nashville - 2008 results:

Obama-Biden 158,423
McCain-Palin 102,915

[Warpy]

9. Also realize you might lose this battle

but do talk it over with your wife and tell her how uncomfortable it is to be ganged up on and attacked for your politics.

Unfortunately, Tennessee is a southern state and a lot of people there are politically right wing. It might be a generally uncomfortable place to live in that regard, but there are lefties there and the country is beautiful. The cost of living is also not bad and it's a decent place to raise a family.

You might check out the area within a 4 hour drive of Nashville on the opposite ends of the state as a compromise. That will keep the family visits to a minimum. Also set up an agreement with your wife that when the political hazing starts, you are going to leave. You can come back half an hour later and ask if they're done yet. My parents got the point quickly during their mercifully brief Limbaugh fascination, so it's a proven technique for establishing some boundaries.

Your inlaws are allowed to be as nutty as they want to be. However, being their punching bag is not your job. The quicker you can establish this fact, the sooner you can start to find out who they are as people.

[Narkos]

18. Thanks Warpy, I know I may have to suck it up

and go along with my wife's wishes. And maybe close, but not TOO close might be a better option.

[pacalo]

32. Surely your feelings count, too?

[Narkos]

34. They do, but I won't be happy unless my wife is happy.

[Still Sensible]

10. I don't suggest you tell them why

unless you and your spouse want them out of your life completely. My experience with people who are that closed-minded is that arguing with them is futile and never productive. The prism that clouds their views is most likely not something you can make any headway against. Perhaps you could allude to the reason without spelling it out explicitly.

I certainly think you are making the right decision in not moving. The key word is intolerance and that is what you rightly want to spare your children from picking up as best you can.

You'll be allright with the tightrope you'll have to walk. A couple hopefully pleasant visits a year focusing discussion on anything apolitical. Good luck.

[rrneck]

12. Danger Will Robinson, danger! Was the wingnut shrine

created for your benefit? If you guys have a hard time getting along, why do they want you to move down there? (although Nashville is a nice town, I used to live there). Family is nice and all, but do they want your company or do they want to convert you? Nashville is ground zero for the Southern Baptist Convention. It's hard to be a liberal in Nashville anyway, much less with your in laws breathing down your neck.

If the job prospects look good, or if you like the town, or you're into country music, or there are any other good reasons for the relocation then fine. But just to live near family that you can barely occupy the same room with? IMHO I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

[Narkos]

19. The "Shrine" has always been there

it just amazes that they always talk about how they want to welcome us in spite of our political differences, yet they keep that shit stacked to the ceiling in the guest room! They have an odd way of making us feel "welcome"

[rrneck]

64. Ah. I didn't mean to project

anything. Your description of your inlaws sent me into a sort of Southern Baptist flashback. No offense intended. It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the situation.

[Narkos]

66. No offense taken at all!

My feeling is, if these guys are so keen on us practically moving next door to them, they may want to consider taking down the Wingnut Shrine. I appreciate your comments.

[madaboutharry]

14. I wouldn't move near them.

It would end up damaging the quality of your life.

[tabatha]

15. If you have children, think very hard about the kind of schools they will attend.

Brainwashing starts in school.

[Narkos]

20. That's probably the key issue right there, not so much the schools

, but the whole atmosphere. My understanding is that the public school system isn't that great, and those with means send their kids off to private schools.

[TNDemo]

26. All three of my children have attended Nashville public schools

and been accepted to MIT, UPenn and got a free ride at UC Berkeley. I don't think their public education here hindered them. Some schools are better than others but the academic magnet high schools are rated 24 and 30 (I think i have that right) out of 20,000 schools in the country. It is true that not everyone who qualifies gets in but Hillsboro High School is excellent, with as many national merit scholars as one of the academic magnets. I know there are some poorly performing schools but there are plenty of opportunities for children to excel in this educational system. I just get frustrated when the picture is presented as no way to succeed if you attend here. I have never regretted my decision to educate my children here.

[Narkos]

30. Thank you so much for the info. It's easy to mischaracterize

the system down there, since it's "Tennessee". If you don't mind my asking, where in Nashville do you live?

[tabatha]

47. There are good and bad public schools.

[MadHound]

16. I'm in a similar situation

First off, to preserve peace and harmony with your wife, if it is important to be close to her family, and you can financially swing it career wise, etc. then do it. That is priority one. Taking your wife across the country to get away from political arguments could very well become a huge thorn in your marriage, so if you can feasibly avoid it, do so.

However as part of doing this, you're allowed a compromise, and for your own sanity that compromise needs to be that you're no closer to your in-laws than forty five minutes away. This prevents sudden surprise visits that you're not prepared for. Thus you have the chance to mentally preparing yourself before visits. After being thousands of miles away, a forty five minute separation will seem like nothing, both to your wife and your in laws.

You also need to talk with your inlaws, and work out a "no politics" deal with them. Politics isn't the be all and end all of any sort of familial gathering, and your in laws and yourself need to put them aside for family gatherings. Be a grown up about this, which means that even though you've made this agreement with BIL, he still might try to get a rise out of you. Let it go, don't say anything, and pretty soon your visits will be non-political. It took me about four years of doing this, but now we all get along famously and politics aren't discussed.

It's tough, it's a pain, it requires stifling one's natural impulse to lambast these people. But in the end you'll have a better relationship with your in laws and a better relationship with your wife.

[Narkos]

21. Hey, thanks a lot

that's some really good advice. You're absolutley right, I might just have to REALLY bite the bullet. And I think I could do it, but my only other concern are my children. I worry that growing up around close family who have, in my mind, very intolerant beliefs is a big concern to me. Is your situation similar in that way as well?

[pacalo]

35. That's good advice for those who thrive under pressure.

The political shrines peppered throughout Narkos' in-law's home tells me politics is the center of their universe. Narkos would never see a "politics aren't discussed" family get-together in that environment. Just sayin'.

[riderinthestorm]

38. Yup, at least 45 min or (preferably) more away.

I posted just about the same thing downthread.

:hi:

I wish we could have a "no politics" rule that was enforcable at family gatherings. I don't bring it up, but won't walk away from their bullshit if THEY bring it up. Since my mother and BIL are deliberately provocative, it's typically a pretty tense day.

[riderinthestorm]

22. I have the same situation with my mother and one of my BIL's.

First off, I'll preface all of my comments by asking why your wife's wishes trump yours? Only you can answer that but it sounds as though she's asking for a pretty big "thing" by wanting YOU to have to endure that situation for... the rest of your life? 1 year? 5 years? Pretty harsh. There's nowhere else she'd consider moving to, it has to be Nashville?

That said...

I live 45 minutes from my mother and 1 hour from my BIL. Here's how we stay sane:

1. I only see my BIL once/year at Christmas. My sister knows exactly why I avoid him (because he's a bigoted asshole, abusive and a rightwing thug who takes great pains to be politically provocative.) Since I'm close enough (an hour is just close enough) my sister and I get together without him every month or so for lunch or dinner, the kids socialize, perhaps they come over to my house for a sleepover, and all's well. But I've clearly, deliberately drawn the line at my BIL. So that works.

2. Mom is trickier. We speak 1x/week on the phone but I'm just far enough that she understands that more frequent visits aren't plausible with work, kids, etc. I visit her/go for lunch/go shopping or whatever, 1x/month and it's painful but doable. I try to structure our visits around "something" like a movie or a theatre event - something (anything!) in hopes the convo will revolve around THAT topic instead of anything political/social/cultural. Sometimes that works but not always and then I know it's going to end badly.

Of course, she's my mom so we persist but if she were my MIL, I'm sure I'd give up and the relationship would be doomed.

I would suggest that if you WERE to compromise by moving to Nashville that you pick an area that's @ an hour away from them. That's close enough for your wife to visit everyone regularly if she wants but just far enough that you can claim the distance is too much for YOU to regularly visit what with work/other reponsibilities etc. I don't know enough about Nashville to know if it's big enough to create that much distance but I'm going to guess that it is. This leaves you with holidays. Even that much contact may be too much but at least with an hour's distance you can always just leave and go home.

Before I figured out to minimize my holidays with my BIL, my husband and I used to drive separately because as soon as my BIL launched into his "n" word rants or something else despicable, I'd be gone.

Now I host all the holidays and my rules are very, very firm. The first verbal bomb that's dropped means the offender is ejected from the house. Mother, BIL, child - makes no difference, they're leaving. Everyone knows I mean it. And everyone is as polite as it's possible to be (with a large crowd). My mother tempers her shit, my BIL doesn't show up for anything but Xmas anymore.

Good luck!

[Narkos]

40. You've got a nice system rigged up there!

IF I move to Nashville, I will probably set up limits like you did. Some of your protocols made me laugh! Actually, my in laws live about 45 minutes north of Nashville, and the places we looked at are at least an hour away. Anyways, thanks for sharing your story. :hi:

[polmaven]

23. YOU'VE concluded that...

Nowhere in your post do I see that you DISCUSSED it with your wife before coming to that conclusion. Does she have a say in this, or is it your decision alone, 'cause, after all, you are the MAN?

[Narkos]

24. Whoa there!

I'm a little pissed at my in laws right now, so I may have come off sounding a bit authoritarian. I've concluded that I don't WANT to move down there, not that I won't WON'T move there. My wife and I are equal partners, please don't get the wrong impression. Please read through my other posts, and you'll see that.

You know, I know this place can be rough, but it would also be nice if I could be myself and get some needed advice without being a accused of being a caveman. It sounds like you could take a chill pill yourself.

[polmaven]

27. What you SAID was...

I think I've concluded that there is no way in hell that we are moving close to those people....

I'm sorry if I came off a little touchy...but your post did not say "i don't WANT to move there, it said "There is no way in hell we ARE moving there.....Big difference!

[Narkos]

29. I understand what I said. Maybe you could cut me a little slack. n/t

[Arugula Latte]

36. I wouldn't do it. No way.

Besides all the complications that would arise by living near these people ... Moving from Washington State to Tennessee? :wow: Talk about culture shock. Plus, you will be way too far away from the ocean.

[Narkos]

42. I know, I know

I have pretty good job out here and could stay if I wanted to. We live in a nice area, schools are great, the Sound is right there, what's not to like? Your jaw drop smilie made me laugh!

[roody]

68. You are 3 hours away by airplane.

[krispos42]

43. Most people are socially-minded...

...and most people in most situations don't do what is in there own personal best interest. That's a strong indication that the underlying operationg priciples of what makes conservatism work... are based on false assumptions.

Which goes a long way towards explaining why conservatism doesn't work.


Essentially they're calling what only a very few people have even a decent adherence to "normal" and the vast majority of people "ill".


That's a recipie for failure right there.



However in your case, I would say that you tell them "Look, I'm not moving XXX miles and upending my life so I can live in a state of perpetual argument. I've decided that in this case I'm going to adopt a conservative philosophy: I'm doing what's in my personal best interest."


And you may want to make a point that being free from government isn't the same as being free, just as not have cancer doesn't mean you're healthy. It just means you don't have cancer.


Good luck.

[Narkos]

52. Yeah, shove that liberatarian craziness right back at them!

He's a big "only for me" kind of political guy, so it would be appropriate!

[krispos42]

53. Tell them....

...you'd be happy to relocate, but you need some sort of financial or tax incentive. For, say, 20 years.

:evilgrin:

[Narkos]

62. LOL!

[CrispyQ]

44. My mother was a right winger & life would have been easier & I suspect our relationship

better if we had lived at least 12 hours away from each other.

[D-Lee]

45. Narcos, you sound as if you are doing good decision making

Just don't send any emails until you and your wife have made a decision about what you wish to do as a couple.

Since you and she are just starting your family, think a lot about if the grandparents and anyone else will be babysitters and to what extent -- there is a lot to be said for family resources. Your wife can probably provide the best views on what the exposure will do to a child's views.

Congrats! You sound like a great husband.

[Joanne98]

46. Don't do it. It will only ruin your marriage.

[Lisa0825]

49. Have you ever tried to talk to him civilly about how you feel?

Have you told him that having a book saying that you are mentally ill out in your presence is insulting to you? Have you flat out asked him, "Do you really think I am mentally ill because we believe different things politically?" It sounds to me like he is the type that likes to bait liberals, not just have a difference of opinion. If you move near them, you will be baited CONSTANTLY. I couldn't deal with that.

[Narkos]

51. That was what sparked our argument, that stupid book

we were pretty well liquored at that point, so it wasn't an ideal time. So, I guess I haven't really. But just looking at the stuff he posts on Facebook, I don't think it would change his mind or behavior for that matter.

[Fireweed247]

50. Besides being right wingers

because of our disagreements my family did some things that were hurtful to my husband and attempted to be harmful to our marriage and I did not think that sort of disrespect would be a positive environment to raise my children. I would not want to expose my husband to that situation or have my children disrespect him because of the judgements of my family.

[Canuckistanian]

54. I have nothing to compare this to

There really aren't any "wingnuts" in Canada, at least none that would dare speak their radical Xtianist views in public or (God forbid) at a family gathering.

This seems to be an American phenomena.

[Narkos]

60. It's a pretty widespread phenomon down here, I attribute it

to a coordinated propaganda campaign by the religious zealots, the Club for Growth crowd, and the neocons. Canada has a pretty big neocon following at McGill, no?

[Ikonoklast]

55. Bullies need victims.

Refuse to be one.

[Narkos]

61. Roger that!

[NuttyFluffers]

56. life is too short to be miserable.

say that to yourself. repeat it if necessary. offer your wife as much access time online and on the phone and even trips to visit her sister. but why be neighbors and make yourself miserable.

but, but, but... stop, think, go back to my title, reread it, breath, read it again. eventually you'll come to the right decision.

remember, your gut knows better -- less silly brain cells to clog up your decision making with contorted justifications. if it feels wrong, don't do it.

[Narkos]

63. LOL! You're absolutely right

I won't move unless I know in my heart that I can be happy there. Thanks for the advice!

[zagging]

57. You don't need advice

You need balls.

[LuckyTheDog]

58. There is more to life than politics

Having family nearby could be an advantage. If your wife wants to be closer to her sister, then that is a serious consideration -- especially if you have (or want to have) kids.

[Narkos]

59. I agree, that's what makes this difficult n/t

[LuckyTheDog]

65. I'll tell you this much

My sister is as right-wing as it gets. I agree with her on next to nothing politically. So, guess what? We don't talk politics very much. That way, our sons (who are about the same age) get to be friends.

The relationship between the boys is what is important to me. I'll never "convert" my sister. And I won't try to because, if I had a blow-up with my sister and never talked to her again, the kids would suffer.

My sister and I have other things to talk about other than her backward view of the world.

[Narkos]

67. I think that's what my wife and her sister

have settled on. Even though my SIL's Facebook page is chock-full of all things wingnut. But I think they've agreed to not go there, and it works. My BIL is a totally different story, and that will have to be dealt with one way or another.

[dysfunctional press]

69. not to rabid right-wingers...it's what they live for.

they have to keep re-assuring themselves in their beliefs...otherwise- if they ever stop to think about things, they start having "liberal" ideas.

same kind of thing usually infects the rabid religoids as well, in that when they stop to think about it- they realize that there is no god, and it scares the shit out of them.