Florida school can't pay substitutes, so students sent to gym to sit...

[madfloridian]

for the 50 minute period.

There has got to be a better way. Before I retired they were already having trouble paying for substitutes. At our school they would divide up the students in that class and send them to other teachers who found stuff for them to do. Often we did not have enough materials for them, but we managed.

It was better than just sending them somewhere to sit without heat or air-conditioning.

Students sit in gym if teacher is absent.

DeLAND | A Central Florida high school principal says he doesn’t have the money to pay substitute teachers so students are forced to sit in the gym for nearly an hour when their teachers are absent.

Students are daily sent to the gym, which has no heating or air conditioning, and told to sit on the bleachers during the 50-minute period.

DeLand High School Principal Mitch Moyer says there’s no benefit for the students and called the gym “a holding tank.”

Moyer’s school district has cut funding for substitute teachers. As a result, he can only afford to hire three subs a day. On a typical day, 12 to 15 teachers might be out.

Florida is not making good decisions about their economic problems right now. I am no economist, and I am careful what I write on the subject. However...

If they are sending 42,000 students to private schools with vouchers paid for with my tax money then they can do better than that.

Today, 42,000 Florida students attend private school on the public's dime. And a new study touting voucher benefits could trigger more expansion.

Why is the number growing? As more people learn about the programs, more sign up. Low-income families are thrilled they can afford to find a school that meets their children's needs. Why are these 2 programs still allowed?

..."A 1999 lawsuit that challenged vouchers targeted only Opportunity Scholarships, offered to students at public schools that had received two F grades in a four-year period. The Florida Supreme Court ruled it was unconstitutional to do that.

But no one has fought the two other programs in court. The state's teachers union, one group that sued to kill Opportunity Scholarships, isn't planning to go after those two because of the cost and time involved. Critics argue the court ruling should apply to all three programs because they are so similar. But the Supreme Court justices noted it would be improper to make that assumption.

You can't improve schools by taking money from them for years. They say we are back to pre 2004-2005 funding now.

[dsc]

1. we cover classes at my school

which is a pain to be blunt. If you have that many teachers absent your teacher retention rate is likely low to begin with, it will plummet if you require that many coverages.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Well that sucks

We double up classes and teachers get extra pay. We never get subs. Haven't had many in years.

[dsc]

5. we cover classes no extra pay

big problem to say the least.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. They have to pay us

It's in our contract. But the teachers still hate it.

[givemebackmycountry]

20. Aw man... you changed your user name!

And I thought MINE had a lot of letters in it!

Kansan? Kansan?

I'm sure you had a good reason but your a legend.
Legends live on.

Kansan?

You sure about this?

:wow:

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Too late to go back now

I want to spread the word that Kansas is a red state hell with good liberals here. Like me :)

[givemebackmycountry]

24. OK, I hear you.

I miss Kansas in a lot of ways.
I'd kill for some Chili Verde at La Mesa across from where I used to work.
And I have already have had Jack Stack shipped down here to Florida.

Your a good liberal, and your in a state I liked a lot.

Your still proud, and that's all that matters.

[OVERPAID01]

56. Bush ruined florida.

I suppose if the you had a more substantial voting system, we wouldn't have had to endure 8 years of Bush.

[Historic NY]

3. Just an idea....how about all them retired folks.....lots of teachers

from up north & beyond that would probably gladly step up. Then you got parent & grandparents. Just a suggestion that might not even cost them.

[madfloridian]

37. Good idea, but they would not be qualified as volunteers

Volunteers as a rule can not be alone with a class.

[1monster]

43. Do you have any idea the abuse substitute teachers take on a daily basis?

A person would be nuts to do it for free.

I love my job as a sub, but it isn't easy by any means.

And, as stated up thread, volunteers are not allowed to be in control of a classroom, except in cases where the volunteer is a school board employee whose job allows them to have control of a classroom.

[alphafemale]

4. I'm sorry. This makes ZERO sense. Why couldn't they sit quietly in their own classroom?

I remember cases where a teacher was out and there was no substitute or the teacher had to leave for an emergency in the middle of the day or for ---whatever--- reason???? We'd just be given reading assignments or worksheets and be checked on by the nextdoor teacher from time to time.

This isn't hard.

This isn't difficult.

Has common sense really and truly died?

[dsc]

6. lawsuits

I have had classes I literally wouldn't trust for a minute alone.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. I have some I wouldn't give 30 seconds

LOL

[dsc]

16. My 4th period last semester was a doozy

ended at about 26 students all but 4 repeaters for alg 1. A total nightmare.

[donco6]

7. The first thing asked in a lawsuit re: a student injury . . .

"Was the teacher present at the scene?" If the answer is no, you get out the checkbook.

In my many years in school administration, I've faced a number of lawsuits. Even WINNING a suit costs around $100,000. Losing is much worse, of course.

So, no, leaving a classroom of kids alone is never, ever an option.

[alphafemale]

9. So how is liability absolved because they are sitting in bleachers...in a gym

rather than a classroom...at a desk?

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Because there is probably a teacher in there

The gym teacher.

Plus they can spread the kids out on the bleachers. If you put distance between them, there are fewer problems.

[dysfunctional press]

14. there may be more than one class at a time with no subs...

this way one person can "monitor" several classes at once.

[donco6]

34. There's a certain level of "expected" care.

The courts understand that a single human cannot be everywhere in a room at once. But they cannot accept that no human is present at all. It's just that clear-cut in a lawsuit.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. No adult supervision

[LeftyMom]

12. Because you can put a couple hundered kids in a big room with one adult

to make sure they sit down and shut up, but 30 kids and no adult is just asking for trouble.

[YvonneCa]

26. Illegal. n/t

[1monster]

44. Yeah. Good ieda if you don't mind total destruction of classroom fixtures and books, not to mention

physical damage to the students themselves.

I was in a classroom last week when a student (and I use the word loosely) threw a stapler across the room, fortunately not hitting anyone.

There were seven to ten students around the person who threw the stapler, but according to them, no one saw who threw it. :eyes:

You don't ever leave the kids unattended even for a few seconds in some classes, and never for the whole period in any class.

[lib2DaBone]

15. The kids are out of control....

It's not the teachers fault. The Teachers have been scapegoats for far too long. The problem is with school administration and politicians.

School administrators will do anything to protect their hefty salaries. If they have to bust a few young hard-working teachers.. so be it. (or maybe old seasoned teachers)

Kids today.. know that there are no consequences for their actions. They can not get swats, nor paddels ,nor reprimands, nor after school. The kids can do whatever they choose to do in the classroom. Johnny sit down, Johnny dont do that, johnny dont hit your fellow students. Johnny knows that he can do whatever he wants. I have had 3rd graders tell me to F-- Off. It doesnt take long for kids to learn, that there is no down side to their bad behavior. So how are these kids going to learn? They aren't.

We get programs like No child Left Behind and other Republican Non-funded nightmares.....

This is your country America... your future....out of control....

[Horse with no Name]

18. I'd throw some of that blame to the parents

How many times do you have parents come to school when they get in trouble and have their parents whip their asses and apologize?
Not very often if your students are like my best friend's.
I remember when I was in the second grade and disrespected my teacher. She sent me to the principal's office and called my mother.
My mother weighs 100 lbs dripping wet. She took me to the bathroom and beat my ass and pulled me back to the room by my neck and made me apologize. Needless to say, I was a model student from their on out. Not just because it hurt, but because I was humiliated (and deserved to be).
I let my kids know early on that I wasn't averse to doing that to them IF the teacher ever called.
My kids were model students and my granddaughter is a model student. I've had nice letters throughout the years from their teachers.
They are aware of the consequences and consequences matter.

[Horse with no Name]

17. My friend is a teacher

and if she takes the day off, SHE has to pay the substitute.
That is fucked up to me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. What?!

That is fucked up. Is this a public school?

[Horse with no Name]

23. Yep. Public school.

The teachers have to find their own sub AND the sub's pay is deducted out of their check.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. I guess my next question should be why the hell they allow this

But I know teachers too well. They often roll over and let administrators walk on them. And it just infuriates me.

[madfloridian]

27. We had to find our own subs before I retired....but not pay for it. That's terrible.

They are now sinking to new lows.

[flvegan]

19. They closed 5 or 6 Pinellas elementary schools recently.

Might be for next year, they'll be shuttered.

How much "better" will it get?

[glowing]

33. I know, its going to be portable hell and too few admin. support. Parents

are pissed... along with myself. My ever increasing property taxes should pay for something... Yeah, I know, the idiot Pugs couldn't regulate jack, and now most properties are in foreclosure collecting dust.. so, no school choice and an even more burden school system.

[DCKit]

28. Put "Florida" and "education" together in an OP and nothing is beyond the realm. n/t

[FloridaJudy]

30. You got that right.

Fortunately my local schools are really, really good - that often happens in a town whose major industry is a University. But the surrounding areas? :scared:

[roody]

29. The money to pay substitutes has been sent to private schools.

[madfloridian]

32. Yes, it has.

That angers me so much.

[FLyellowdog]

31. Good time/place for retired teachers to volunteer as part of Obama's vision.

There's not going to be any more money in FL. Our system is already overburdened with no help in sight. People making the decisions in this state don't recognize the problems or have the intellectual wherewithal to come up with solutions. "Private vouchers" is their idea of fixing our educational problems. Meanwhile, our public school children get shortchanged all the way around.

Don't come to Florida if you want your child educated for the 21st century. Not gonna happen...not now...no how...no way.:scared:

[madfloridian]

39. Volunteers are great, but they can't be left alone with the kids.

Couldn't have done without them, though..

[madfloridian]

35. They have given it a name already...."arena subbing"

From the Daytona Beach News Journal.

'Arena' classes emerge after substitute teacher fund cut

DAYTONA BEACH -- First, there was arena football.

Now, there's "arena subbing" -- the latest phrase Volusia County school administrators use to describe the growing practice of having a couple of substitute teachers monitor as many as 200 students at a time in what DeLand High Principal Mitch Moyer calls a "holding tank."

Nobody likes it, but principals struggling to finish the school year with only half of their usual budget for substitute teachers say it's necessary at times.

"It is not ideal but, unfortunately, this is the situation we are in," Deltona High Principal Gary Marks said. "We need to make the best of it."

The practice -- most common at middle and high schools -- has been used frequently since principals were told in early January the substitute budget was being cut by $848,209 -- half of what was left for this school year.

That cut is part of the plan to chop $13.7 million from the $474 million operating budget for Volusia schools because of falling state tax collections and declining enrollment. Another $44.7 million cut is projected for next school year unless state lawmakers come up with more money for public schools.

[skooooo]

36. Obviously the answer is...

....children's workhouses! It was good enough for Great Britain until the liberals came along to ruin everything.

[madfloridian]

38. Darn those liberals anyway.

That's funny.

:hi:

[tomreedtoon]

Putting the little bastards to work might be a good idea.

Because, after all, they won't be getting jobs when they graduate, so at least they can experience what work feels like. And those toilets won't be cleaning themselves when the custodial staff is fired.

Don't they make lowly recruits clean toilets in the military? It's kind of a life lesson; teach the kids to clean up after themselves and each other, the same way recruits do. I'm surprised the Bushies didn't think of this while they were in power; make high school the gateway to military recruitment.

[Citizen Jane]

40. Yikes! That's where I got my hs diploma.

Knowing what I do of Volusia County Schools (having taught there as well as going to school there), I want to know why the excess of administrators at each school is not pulling time subbing. Seriously. I bet that school has at LEAST 4 assistant principals. Let's go see...

A quick check shows that each AP is now called an administrator...here is the admin staff at the school (sad that they can't even spell attendance correctly):

*Mitch Moyer (Principal)

Lawrence Beal, Jr
12th Grade Administrator
*

Richard Calkins
Football Athletic Director
*

Craig Clements
Athletic Director
*

Stephen Davenport
Facilities and Parking
*

Michael Degirolmo
ESE
*

Casey Korkus
10th Grade Administrator
*

Carlos Scott
9th Grade Administrator
*

Timothy Shea
Curriculum Administrator
*

Michelle Sojka
Data Processing Administrator
*

Dean Tate
11th Grade Dean

[madfloridian]

45. Administration heavy. How about they take a classroom now and then.

We had two vice principals at our elementary school who would sit on their butts in the offices rather than take a class in an emergency.

Teachers are the bottom of the totem pole.

[Wapsie B]

48. Exactly. Put enough administrators on leave to pay for the subs.

And find a way to make sure the money's there to fund the schools in the first place. That goes for all schools.

[Divine Discontent]

41. good grief!

what can you say... thoroughly incompetent. how about they assign a student leader in each class who will organize a plan or rehashing what they've already learned the previous day - kids sit in classrooms without teachers anyhow for several minutes at a time, might as well have them lead the class.

that or have them clean up the school or wash dishes in the cafeteria (we had to help the cafeteria workers in 6th grade)

I heard Cali is about to go really bankrupt here in a few weeks... what a disaster we're all facing!

[1monster]

42. It's not like they pay us all that much. Subs generally are the lowest paid school district

employees.

[1monster]

46. I just read the article. In the school district I work for, it would be very unusual for twelve to

fifteen teachers to be out on any day, (in any one school) let alone a regular basis.

Must be a horrible school with a very high stress level.

[The Backlash Cometh]

47. All the substitute teachers I ever knew claimed it was just a baby-sitter

position. They didn't teach anything. At least now, it's out in the open.

[1monster]

50. I've been a sub for seven years and I teach. Yes, sometimes it is just a babysitting job, BUT

I have done long term sub jobs (three weeks to a whole semester) where I was responsible for everything a contract teacher was responsible for (at less than one third the pay).

Even in the cases where the students are doing book work and I'm there mainly to keep order, I quite often have to help students understand their lessons.

The job is what one makes of it. And if one wins the trust of the contract teachers, one is given much more responsiblity and even gets to teach the class rather than just babysit.

[antimatter98]

49. Florida has never cared about taxing for good schools..maybe people will wake up to this. n/t

[defendandprotect]

51. Has the GOP been stealing the Florida vote for decades . . . or what is going on . .

in Florida -- ?

We've all suffered the GOP slamming of public schools while pushing charter and religious

schools -- what in the Hell are we all doing about this --??

And, aren't we a little late?

Where's the glorious Jeb Bush?

[madfloridian]

52. Jeb has his own group formed to give us excellence in education.

I will have to look up the site...can't remember the name right now.

He is continuing his goals of privatizing schools even as we speak.

[defendandprotect]

53. The other brother -- Neal -- is also involved in the ....

"Leave no child behind" stuff ---

A teacher friend of mine in NJ said her school had difficulties under the program

a year or more ago and in order to get straightened out they had to get hooked into

a program called "COW" --- "Curriculum on Wheels" -- which was a Neal Bush program!

Evidently costs a lot -- she thought it a huge sad joke.

[Vinca]

54. Why doesn't the principal drag his carcass to the gym and hold

a discussion on the issues of the day? I'm sorry they can't afford a substitute teacher, but you can't leave kids sitting in a gym doing nothing. What a waste. Rustle up a volunteer teacher's aide to read the newspaper and talk about the articles. Anything.

[happygoluckytoyou]

55. GOTTA LOVE A FLORIDAN WHO VOTED FOR ....BUSH.. DUBYA...GEORGE.. JEB... cause they're there FOR YOU!!

[Bucky]

57. Idea for shovel-ready stimulus package: The Sub-Teacher Corps

Instead of putting billions into the hands of bankers, a significant fraction of which will be socked away in rainy day funds and never get used to stimulate the economy, use the same money to hire hundred of thousands of new substitute teachers (and pay existing ones). You take the budget burden off cash strapped school districts and introduce a whale load of potential new teachers into the joys of the teaching profession. And virtually ALL of the money given to new hires at this level will go into the economy as stimulus retail spending.