Can you do this? Can you live like your grandparents did?

[colorado thinker]

I remember my grandmother's house. She started out in a small two-story house in northern North Dakota. The house had two bedrooms, upstairs, a small living room that no one used except for special occasions, a large dining room that contained, in addition to the table, my grandfather's desk, my grandmother's sewing machine, a large cabinet that held linens, games, miscellaneous papers and other things that needed to be stored, and the 8 chairs for the table. The kitchen was also large with a small table tucked into a corner nook and the pantry was a room off the kitchen with floor access to the cellar for cold food storage.

Grandma didn't get an indoor bathroom until 1962. She raised 5 children in that house and entertained 29 grandchildren when they came along. Grandma didn't renovate the kitchen every few years; as far back as I can remember it looked the same. Her living room (parlor) furniture were the same as long as I could remember, as well. They bought things when they needed to be bought, and the quality was excellent, so the furniture lasted through their entire marriage.

It was not the fanciest house but I remember stealing marshmallows from her pantry, playing board games on that dining room table, being allowed to watch one television program in her living room only one time during a visit, watching my grandmother and mother and aunts playing Scrabble at the kitchen table. I don't remember thinking about how the walls needed to be painted the latest designer color or how terrible it was that she had formica counters instead of granite.

Her bedroom closet didn't exist, she had a cupboard that she kept her house dresses and Church clothes in. A walk in closet would have been converted to an upstairs toilet, I imagine!

We will need to change our expectations on how we live. It comforts me to remember how it used to be and how little was needed to create lasting wonderful memories. Life was a lot simpler then, and it can be that way again.

[BlooInBloo]

1. Um, giving up - and *calling* it a win - is ONE possible response.

[noamnety]

45. I think the message is something different.

It's not giving up, more a matter of switching values.

I lived for half a year in a space that was 21 feet long, about 4 feet wide, no water or electricity. Honestly, I didn't feel deprived, and it didn't affect my value of life at all. I had good friends living in the same circumstances, and I found it relaxing and pleasant to hang out with them in the fresh air or in the humble little abode where there was no pretense of having to impress anyone. I had a little coleman stove and one EZ-foil disposable pan that I cooked in, that cost me about 50 cents. No fridge, everything cooked was a one-"pot" meal. That is a nicer way to live than hosting dinner parties with matching china or going out to noisy restaurants.

I know from vacationing in similar ways and not wanting to leave that I'm still fine with that, still fine with sleeping on the floor in a pile of blankets. Unfortunately, I also know from those vacations that the husband isn't so easily satisfied. He likes big open bright spaces, and is forever opening blinds, wanting to let all the light in. Sometimes I daydream about living in a cave. That would be ideal for me.

[BlooInBloo]

70. HAHAHAHA!!! "switching values" - so THAT'S the euphemism you're using.

:rofl:

Don't bother trying to sell me shit by calling it steak. This is all VERY well-trodden intellectual ground. Start with the Genealogy of Morals for the classic and general statement of this approach.

[noamnety]

101. No euphamisms here, just experience.

A while back, I brought 4 students down to NOLA to do relief work. We stayed (much to their shock and initial horror) in a place with no indoor plumbing, no modern conveniences, we slept on a cement floor under an army tent. We stayed here:



Other school trips at our school are to Europe or Disney, but this is where we ended up. At the end of the week, I interviewed them on film about the week. One said she was going to cry because she didn't want to leave, each of the others said they weren't ready to go home, one said he just wanted to stay as long as he could because he felt like he had another life there.

Doing without health insurance, worrying about having money for your next meal, things like that - those are a shit sandwich that I've tasted enough, I wouldn't try to sell that to anyone. But living a simpler life with less dependency on material things, that can be its own kind of steak.

That 21 foot space I lived in, that was my home, it was a house boat of sorts, and I've never slept better than when I was being rocked to sleep on the waves. Only time in my life I didn't consistently have insomnia.

[BlooInBloo]

125. "that can be its own kind of steak. " - BWAHAHAHA!!!!

Don't try. At least not with me. Take your shit-oil selling somewhere you have a chance of making a sale. It appears you have a lot of suckers - I mean takers - in this thread, so the hunting should be good.

[Incitatus]

139. Yes, the more dependent on material things, the better we are.

:eyes:

[BlooInBloo]

142. Yes, I clearly recall saying, suggesting, or implying that.

Not. Because it didn't happen.

[noamnety]

177. I'm not sure why you are so angry/sarcastic at me.

I'm not trying to take any of your things away from you. I'm not trying to convince you to part with any of your things.

The thread is about economic realities and whether we could cope with living as most people have lived throughout history if it comes to that. Throughout history, most people didn't have electricity in their homes or running water. I'm going to assume that prior to those inventions, there were people who were happy in their lives - or at least people who experienced a mix of joy and stress, like most of us still do. Some of us obviously believe we could still manage to live fulfilling lives if we lived as most people have lived.

I don't know why that's making you so angry. If you'd have been born a hundred years ago to an average family, you'd have still found joy in your life, no? That's all we're saying.

[Sherman A1]

201. Some folks are just angry

Your post was Excellent! You made some good points and while everyone is entitled to their own opinions, there are those that believe "theirs' is the only one that counts.


:hi:

[Incitatus]

213. I don't know what his problem is. I understood your posts.

Thanks for sharing.

[ensho]

195. I've lived on boats - sleeping is great

nt

[JVS]

203. It's like that "Who moved my cheese" bullshit

[BlooInBloo]

208. Yup - and like the religious bullshit "just be content". Fuck that. I want to grow and thrive...

not live like people in the Bad Old Days. Sheesh.

Fucking give-up-loser-whiners, thinking they can win just by calling it "winning" "switching values".

EDIT: Oops sorry - I got their marketing line wrong.

[moriah]

149. I also did something similar, although being TechnoPagan I had to have electricity.

For a year I lived on the bare edge of the power grid, ran a mile and three tenths of our own phone line, had an outhouse and a greywater system -- well was a hand pump pumped by a windshield wiper motor. It was powered by a 12-volt battery attached to a solar panel. At least when we lost power we never lost water.

My personal space was a futon in the loft.

We had goats, feeder calves, and chickens. Originally the chickens were banty hens and roosters, then someone dropped off three Tyson refugee roosters. The banty hens decided they liked Big White Birds better than the bachelor banties, and the funky Tyson genetics/breeding had us end up with over 100 chickens of varying size, color, and temperament.

Yes, I was happy there.

Would I be happy there now? Probably, they put up a cell tower recently nearby so I could use a celluar modem. Woot!

[hedgehog]

60. Giving up? I like my indoor biffy and I think that a hot shower is one of the finest

inventions civilization ever came up with. I admit to a book buying addiction. But I will never understand the theory that more is more. Sometimes enough is just right.

[vadawg]

138. i never got showers hot or cold, nothings better than a bath

even though i have three showers in my house i have never used them other than to get mud of my boots. my misses still bitches at me for washing my smalls in the bath with me too but you cant teach an old dog new tricks. though she absolutely insists no laundry in the bath when shes sharing or if we are in a hotel or someone elses house.

[Skittles]

2. my grandmothers upstairs walk in closet was converted to a bathroom

when I was 25

had to pump my own water too :D

[psychmommy]

3. i loved both of my grandmom's houses.

it wasn't the house-it was that they owned their homes. they were both filled with love and good memories of sunday family dinners, playing barbies under my grandmom's dining room table. i could live like them-except i need my cell phone, computer and cable. (hahaha)

edit to say: this was a reply to the original poster. oops.

[cobalt1999]

4. I wish I could

Grandmother had a turn of the century southern Victorian home with about 20 rooms. All hardword throughout. Solid wood antique furniture vs. the cheap crap made today.

[Hekate]

122. I lust for one of those. Wow. My grandma was born in the 1880s in a sod hut in Nebraska...

... so I suspect she didn't start out with indoor plumbing. But when it came to grandma raising her own 6 kids in Colorado, I never heard my mom even hint that they didn't have running water in the houses she and her sibs grew up in.

Hekate

[Maru Kitteh]

169. I'll bet your grandmother had the most awesome stories. How long did she live in a soddie?

[Hekate]

189. That info is probably in the family history/genealogy my mom wrote. We lived far from relatives...

... most of my life, although when I was a young teen I corresponded with a lot of the older generation asking for family stories. I loved Granny dearly, and wish I could have been closer.

I do know that my great-grandma (i.e. Granny's mom) taught school in a sod hut. Granny became a school teacher herself, as did my own mom.

Hekate

[sandnsea]

5. Other than indoor plumbing

Most people still do live this way. I get real tired of the top 10% assuming the rest of us live the way they do.

I don't even know anybody who has a granite countertop. :eyes:

[colorado thinker]

16. I don't either.

Mine is the original 1977 butcher block Formica that is getting really worn in spots!

I understand that granite has to be cleaned with special solutions and is really kind of fragile. What is the point of that???????

[AndyTiedye]

97. Me Too

Mine is the original 1977 butcher block Formica that is getting really worn in spots!

Ours is going too. I wonder how much it would cost to replace the worn-out fake butcher block with the real thing.

I understand that granite has to be cleaned with special solutions and is really kind of fragile. What is the point of that???????

I don't get it either.

[mainer]

152. I have granite. It's practically bulletproof.

I"ve never cleaned it with any special solutions. It's local granite, was crafted about 20 miles from here, so it didn't have to be transported very far to get to my house. I don't understand people who say it takes special care. It's the most care-free kitchen countertop I've ever owned, and I've had experience with both formica and tile. (Cleaning the grout in tile was a bear.) With granite, all I do is wipe it down with a sponge.

[Mojorabbit]

133. I have granite countertops

Four years ago I finally remodeled my kitchen. It was small (my house was built in the 40's) and had four metal cabinets and four feet of counter space. I love to cook and the kitchen is the heart of my home. I wipe my counter tops with soapy water, rinse, and dry and it looks as beautiful as the day it was put in. It is not fragile at all. I use cast iron cookware and am not exactly the most graceful person and have dropped heavy pots on it without incident.
I don't regret redoing the kitchen one iota. I waited fifteen years before I could afford to do it. It is the room where the family gathers.

[JDPriestly]

140. I have what I think is the original 1920s tile. My kitchen has not

been remodeled since the house was built in the 1920s. (That's pretty old for L.A. although there are older houses.) I know my kitchen is old because it was built before refrigerators were put in kitchens. There is absolutely no room for a refrigerator. I think the bedrooms were originally sleeping porches. They are enclosed mostly by windows.

And, yes, as a child, I lived in at least one house with a pump and no shower. We kids were bathed in a big vat on stilts as I recall. One of my grandmothers had no indoor plumbing in her farm house. We kids loved the place. My mother hated it. Oh, well. Grownups. You know how spoiled they are.

Nice to hear the grandmother stories. They bring back sweet memories.

[htuttle]

18. Wow, thank you!

Exactly what I was going to say, including the granite countertop part!

BTW, I've learned to cook like my grandma the last few years, and am far better for it... :)

[PylesMalfunction]

100. I don't even have a counter!

No cabinets and my kitchen walls are down to the studs. When my 115 year old kitchen gets a freakin counter of any kind, I'm going to be thrilled. When we got an oven (we were cooking on a camping stove), I baked for like 2 weeks straight. :D I'm so glad I'm paying as I go on our house renovations though. So many people I know took out construction loans and while I'm lucky enough to live in an area where property values are still fairy good, it's nice having a fairly small mortgage. Even without walls. :)

[NeedleCast]

116. I have a granite counter top

It's nice. Cleans up easy.

I am nowhere near the top 10%.

[misanthrope]

182. Checked for radon yet?**nm

**

[Raineyb]

185. Granite countertop?

I don't even own my place I rent. I barely have any counter space and forget stainless steel appliances. :shrug:

I think the top 10% watches too much HGTV.

Regards

[snappyturtle]

6. I remember my grandparents' farmhouse much the same way....

there was a security in being there and the simpler life was liberating. I don't think it's giving up at all...reply #1. I'm not happy with the path we've taken, to come to our senses, but I can be thankful. For some, especially those a lot better off than we are, the adjustment will be an "adventure" to say the least.

[vadawg]

7. none of my grandparents lived in houses, my parents neither

So i guess the fact i have a roof over my head at all is a step up. My wife thinks im crazy as i still prefer going to the bathroom outside than in and sleeping in a house seems wierd.

[cobalt1999]

10. Jeez, were you raised by wolves?

How do you come from 2 generations living without houses.

[colorado thinker]

11. I laughed out loud when I read this

and scared the cat. Hilarious response! Thanks:rofl:

[vadawg]

13. i am a genuine 9carat solid Gold Pikey

My wife laughs her ass of at me, shes a PHD, her parents are a Doctor and lawyer, i was born under the wheel, and like i said i miss the lifestyle but im glad my kids are getting something different. sidenote: my family is known a wolf clan :) so i was raised by wolves just not literally.

[kestrel91316]

56. Pikey? Under the wheel? Please translate, lol.

[Raksha]

68. Sounds like you're a Gypsy...

okay, Romany if you wanna be politically correct about it, although personally I don't think "Gypsy" is a put-down. Maybe Native American. That's the only way I can make sense out of your story. I don't know what "Pikey" means.

[vadawg]

72. no problems, i can live with pikey, tink, gypo, no offense taken

not got a problem with any of them. Pikey is a derogatory term used in the UK for tinks etc, though its morphed nowadays.

[Raksha]

85. So I guessed more-or-less right.

I'm a little bit fuzzy though as to whether Gypsies and Tinkers in the UK are the same ethnic group, even though they live the same lifestyle. I guess I could look it up in Wikipedia if I weren't so lazy...

[vadawg]

88. lol, the terms are thrown around whether you are a new age traveller

or genuine romany, i have been called them all and seriously i dont get offended, but the new age travellers are shunned by families like mine do to lots of strange supperstitions and age old vendettas.

[Raksha]

93. Well, my curiosity overcame my laziness and I did just look it up...

Here's a Wikipedia article that uses all the words you did in the first paragraph.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Traveller

[vadawg]

98. lol i love the association with dogs part

talk about stereotyping however real it may be. Though i got to say i fucking lurve lurching and stereotypical i did have a pitbull until recently. :)

[canetoad]

113. I grew up in the UK

so was familiar with both Gypsies and tinkers. The first is an ethnic group, the second is a profession - they are itinerant tinsmiths. This means that someone can be both a Gypsy and a Tinker, and many were.

[Hekate]

129. Your answers are all interesting and some of your slang is Irish &/or UK. Were you raised there?

... or over here? What made you decide to settle down?

Don't want to be too nosy, but am interested.

Hekate

[vadawg]

132. No problem, lets see

i was born somewhere in argyll, scotland no idea were some layby or something, my mother knows it was winter cause it was snowing, thanks ma it could be fecking anytime from july 30th to june 29th then. I was raised all over scotland, ireland, england, wales etc. came to america through working for the uk government, met my wife got hitched, shes all 5 star hotels and vacations in hawaii etc so i had to buy a house for her and the kids, but i still spend a lot of my time outside ahem, feel free to ask questions anytime. PS do you want to buy a dog.

[Hekate]

145. Well-travelled! As to the dog...

... are you playing to the Wikipedia stereotype, or do you really raise lurchers? And what the heck are lurchers? LOL

I have a tiny backyard in So Cal, so I have a tiny dog to go with it. We used to keep our son's enormous lab-dobie mix when he had no place else to keep her, and the poor thing would just about lose her mind from the confinement. No big dogs for us.

:hi:

Hekate

[vadawg]

146. lol its only a stereotype cause its true

lurchers are big ugly fast dogs that will chase anything, a big part of the culture is hare lurching, its when the dogs chase hares, i personally never raised the lurchers not like a breeder or anything but when you had all the dogs around like we did nature takes its course. Pitbull lurcher mix dosent5 hunt to well.

[Raksha]

176. The Wikipedia article I posted last night has a link to lurchers.

Originally, they were dogs bred specifically for poaching!!! Lurchers are mutts, not purebreds. The peasants and tinkers and other such riffraff weren't allowed to own greyhounds and Irish wolfhounds and suchlike...those were only for the nobility, as were most of the hunting preserves. But the lower classes had to eat too, so they bred these very high-class mutts called lurchers to help them out. Here's the link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lurcher

I thought it was very interesting. They have a picture of a lurcher that's a mix of greyhound, deerhound and collie. Very pretty dog!

[ferrous wheel]

17. It's I before E except after C. In this weird society.

:D :rofl:

[vadawg]

20. and i think its F before U as well, looks like FU

:) wish i could figure out the fecking smiley faces

[blues90]

8. My grandparents had a three flat in Chicago

It had closets converted into bathrooms which had the floors raised to allow for the plumbing. They had the same furnature until they moved to Florida sometime in the 70's. I could live that way and in fact would prefer it even without a cell phone or computer.

But that now seems like a different world from what it was in the 50's. They were there in the 20's.

[NightWatcher]

9. I'm trying to make myself "Depression-Ready"

My grandparents oft told stories about the Depression and how they survived it. I too am trying to get myself on a footing to be prepared. Planning for a chicken coop, researching gardening, looking into rural land......all part of my plan to get ready to be responsible for my own needs.

[NMDemDist2]

24. I"m already there

a trailer (albeit a nice 1330sf trailer) on an acre of land with a barn that we own outright and have only one car payment for debts

but hubby and I have fairly safe government jobs, I still may get some chickens and a couple goats

[colorado thinker]

36. Wow. I'm jealous

I just want 5 acres and a straw bale or adobe, with some chickens and a goat. I'm a long way from getting there, however! Congratulations!

[NMDemDist2]

42. it was thanks to DU and the Economy forum

the DUers were screaming about a housing bubble back in 2005 and an economic meltdown on the way

I cashed out in Phoenix AZ at the very peak of the bubble in July 2006, came to rural New Mexico and paid CASH for my acre and paid off all my debts

it was some luck and a lot of paying attention on DU

getting jobs here took a while but we're in good shape I think

:hi:

[bvar22]

103. We also cashed out in 2006 ...

...and bought 8 acres in a very rural unspoiled/undeveloped area of The South with an abundant, on site, clean water supply surrounded by National Forest (Inexpensive property, plenty of wildlife, long growing season, low energy demands, very low property taxes).

We have planted a large vegetable and fruit garden, have two healthy HoneyBee colonies (expand to 4 colonies this Spring), and keep a dozen chickens. We added more fruit trees and a large BlueBerry Patch over the Winter. We are currently working to make the property more productive, naturally fertile, and sustainable.

We have reduced our taxable income to near poverty levels.
We no longer use "credit", don't have a mortgage, build everything ourselves, buy "used, 2nd hand, or salvage" directly from previous owners, and Barter, Trade, or pay CASH to avoid all taxes whenever possible.
As much as possible, we have stopped consuming in the Corporate America sense of the word.

We ARE registered to vote, and supported the Democratic Party 100% this election, but don't hold much hope that anything will really change. Our focus has become local Humanitarian/Community Issues, and methods of denying support for Corporate America and our One Party system.

We realize we are very fortunate to be in a situation to do this. We have no dependent children, and are in good health. We miss the advantages of Urban Consumption, but have no desire to return.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=246&topic_id=7979&mesg_id=7979

[blues90]

25. I wish I had land . In an apt we can't grow anything

If I had planned my life better at least by now I would at least have a small section of land and to be honest I could live in a motor home at this point and feel just fine about it. Even a shack would do.

[kestrel91316]

61. When I retire I hope to move to the upper midwest, get a little piece of land

(hell, even two acres would do), put up a little two-room Thoreau cabin or such, and live humbly with chickens and a dairy goat and a big garden and little orchard to keep me safe. I don't even need indoor plumbing.

[dixiegrrrrl]

158. Indoor plumbing is very nice when the temps get to zero in winter

and you have to walk thru 8 feet of snow to find the buried outhouse.

Sharing hope and experience, where-ever I go...:evilgrin:

[KoKo]

175. No Deck? grow some stuff in planter boxes...then you have a Freezer

small or large that you can deal with. Otherwise...stock up on canned Organic Soup and "Dried Beans" and some snippets of "Country Ham" to add to Cabbage from your grocery store (CHEAP) and to eat in "Split Pea Soup"...plus you can EAT OUT and bring the Second Portion home for lunch or freezer if you only "eat out."

Tons of ways to conserve and not STARVE!

[kestrel91316]

58. Be sure to check out Sharon Astyk's blog "Casaubon's Book" and

the books she has written! Food self-sufficiency and security is her thing.

http://sharonastyk.com/

[colorado thinker]

64. Thanks, I will.

One thing Grandma didn't have was the Internet, of course. Thank God I do, I learn so much!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

12. How about living like the Europeans do? In close proximity.

A result of living like that always is that they are far more sociable than we are, and don't feel imposed upon when someone merely drops in on them, or when they travel in public transport.

We Americans are so used to being isolated, it has become our way of being, we need it, we are it. That's very bad because to be united, we need desperately to not be isolated but to be people persons.

[colorado thinker]

19. Absolutely.

We Americans USED to live in family groups, but don't anymore. I think that we will go back to that style of living, however, out of necessity as this "recession" drags on and on.

[Gregorian]

26. That's interesting.

On one hand I'm trying to get further away from American society. And it is not easy. People and their cars and houses are literally everywhere. After many years of living alone, and without neighbors, I am still trying to find that place that is QUIET. But on the other hand I am a very social person. So I'm threatened by your reply, that it may be accurate, and also believe that we can be social without being in close proximity.

I think it's a mentality. A context. Just like this thread. Grandma lived a simple life. And it's weird that I've had to become a wealthy man just to live like grandma did. And another thing, I find Americans have taken more and more for granted. Here I sit on my newest piece of land having no electricity. And i haven't had it for over a year. I can live like an animal if I have to. But I see most people living with this context of grandeur. They have to have their fancy lifestyle. I'm not saying it right. What I mean is grandma would have been ecstatic had she had a microwave. I remember my grandmother used to open a milk carton on both sides. It was funny because it ended up being a floppy box of milk. She was poor. And grew up without anything like that. But now we're the ultimate consumers. Our default context is so far above that which used to suffice for kings. Literally.

I think Europeans get along (if they really do) better because they have better educations. I hang out on European forums just to watch. They're generally far above and beyond our level of vocabulary, science, political knowledge. We're like inbreds. Haha. With a very very high standard of living. And yet, just get out of the city and we have nothing. Whereas, even in the country, in Europe you can run to town and get foix gras.

Argh. I don't know if that made a bit of sense. :)

[colorado thinker]

32. Yes, it did make sense!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

69. I agree that Europeans have better educations than we do, but there's more to it than that....

When I first moved abroad, I found it very difficult to get used to. People would knock on my door at any hour, I'd walk in, and they'd be ever so friendly and walk in. I was used to invitations, not people just showing up.

I also wasn't used to traveling on the speed trains. I missed my car. No one looked at me in my car. In my car nation, I could stop if I wanted. Sometimes in the train people would talk to me. I felt it was an interruption of my "down time" (whatever that means). Sure, in my car I'd have to fight traffic and waste lots of time, but I was alone, and didn't have to share that space with anyone.

Then I fell in love with a man from that country and began to slowly adapt.

Before long, I was using my window to call my neighbor to ask her, "Do you have any SALT I can borrow?" I was also riding the train with friends. We were coming home and going directly to the "pub" where other neighbors hung out. People dropped in at any time and it became something I really enjoyed! We were constantly invited to dine at people's homes and we invited right back. In fact, I began to drop in on neighbors and friends also at any time of the day without calling. We were as sociable as anyone else in the country.

Then my husband unexpectedly passed away and after some time I returned to the States.

Oh how I missed having neighbors that were my very closest friends and I could drop in on! I missed having a local pub. I missed being dropped on without calling. It bothered me having to call people before being allowed to go over. I hated the distances between people. It was just all unsociable.

Now it's been years and I've acclimated. I'm back to my isolated commute and love not having to contact other human beings on the way to work. I don't like people dropping in on me without warning. I like people to mind their own business.

But actually, it's very sad.

[vadawg]

28. Hell no, the only reason i live where i live is i have space

my neighbours are close enough and far enough away, i can grow shit in my yard, shoot shit in my yard and as said before do and have shit in my yard, i would hate to have to live in close proximity to people outside of my family.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

81. Of course - we're an isolation society - we live it, raise our kids in it, so it's all we are used

to. That's also what I was used to before I moved to Europe.

[blues90]

29. You are certainly right about that.

When I was a child in america it was nothing like it is today because at that time many people were first generation immigrants and still had the sense and tradition from where they came from.

The movie Avalon really tells the story very well on how we got to where we are now and how we made the wrong choices all based on the dollar and progress and to hell with community.

Man was that even the wrong move. It's really a shame and quite sad.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

82. It is sad. Our country wasn't designed for people to live in isolation, with everyone....

separate from one another. You're right, it was designed this way to enrich certain people: the destruction of the rail system, the promotion of the highway development, the development of suburbia to get everyone to move away from cities, the destruction of the few things we have which are ancient, etc. etc.

[blues90]

154. Yes , people have this imbedded mindset that the highyway

System which created all of these cars is something to be desired and actually proud of when all it did was allow all land to be bought and turned into suburbs and many areas that were basically wild nature to be ruined. Now the country is built around cars and now it's to big to fail and to big to survive.

If we would have not done this then the wars for oil would have never happened and we would have advanced rail systems rather than phase them out and now try to find a way to bring them back in and compete with the automobile to do so.

I never felt sitting in traffic jambs for hours made things better as cars idle burning fuel.

I don't think the word independant applies to cars when in reality they make us dependant.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

160. I know! I mean, I can understand people getting used to being loners...

I mean loners are the subject of many books. We are a nation of loners because we've been raised this way as kids. We like our car isolation, our house isolation, our neighborhood isolation, etc. But are we so stupid that we can't realize that being used to something, doesn't mean that something is good, and that we need to change? Are we that narrow in our thinking and that unwilling to change, even if remaining the way we are kills us? I don't understand Americans you know?

[blues90]

161. I feel most people here who have become americanized

Don't see the way of the land as anything other than normal once they adapt to it. It started when the TV set was becoming common place. People see what others do and feel compelled to join in thinking this is what is desired and expected.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

162. I think you make a very good point about the TV shaping people's minds nt

[Oak2004]

186. I grew up in an ethnic neighborhood and it was very much a community

We were all from a small section of southern Poland / northern Slovakia. We were, in fact, a few Old World border villages transplanted to the United States.

I heard Slovak, Polish, and even a smattering of Ukranian in the streets and, for that matter, in my classrooms, where the bi-and trilingual neighborhood teachers would deliver the lesson first in English, then in whatever language the non-English speaking immigrants required. There was a radio station in the neighborhood, and it broadcast in more than one language, playing ethnic music. Everyone knew each other -- in fact family connections often went back centuries (my cousin, for example, married a woman whose great grandfather was rescued from a well by my great grandfather). Neighbors dropped in on neighbors, and I couldn't have dreamed of causing trouble anywhere within a mile of my house because I knew my parents would know about it before I even got back home.

I have no idea what appeal the cold, sanitized, suburbs had for my parents, and for others of their generation. That generation broke up that community and fled to the suburbs. Another community, Latino and Asian, fills the streets I grew up on. The signs are still multilingual, but the languages have changed. Somewhere there I imagine that one family knows another for generations, and tells stories of how great ancestor Pedro saved great ancestor Estevan from a well. And I wonder how long that community will be there, or whether it, too, will get an itch to scatter to some cold, barren, isolated life elsewhere.

[stray cat]

35. Those of us in apartments, condos or renting rooms already do....

[Sarah Ibarruri]

84. It's still not the same. A few condos in a country designed for isolation is different....

from a condo in a country that is designed for sociability. I live in a condo. I lived in a condo in Europe. Very different. I don't know my neighbors. In Europe I knew almost everyone in my building, the building next door, the one across, I met them at the pub (downstairs), walking to the market (1 block away), walking to the drugstore (1 block away), at the bookstore (1 block away), at the doctor's (1 and 1/2 blocks away), at the park (behind my building), at the movie theater (5 blocks away), and so on. I didn't have to drive anywhere. In Europe, my husband had a car and I had to invent reasons to drive, otherwise we wouldn't pull the car out for anything. (Honest!)

[dysfunctional press]

37. we recently moved from the northside of chicago to the far suburbs...

into a semi-rural subdivision, where everyone has lots of at least an acre. in our chicago place, we were on a standard city lot, surrounded by other houses and two-flats, in the north park neighborhood.
BUT- we are FAR more sociable with our new neighbors, than we ever were in the city. in chicago we knew the first names of the next-door neighbors on either side of us- out here we know a couple dozen couples/families fairly well already.

just being in an urban setting doesn't guarantee socializing, and being in the far-flung burbs doesn't mean isolation.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

86. How do you socialize in the suburbs? What all do you do? nt

[dysfunctional press]

91. a lot of people have dogs, and we meet them walking ours, for one thing...

we never felt that we had enough room for a dog in the city.

pool parties, hot tub parties, going to movies, going out for pizza, going out for fish fry, subdivision-wide garage sale, playing cards, riding bikes, ice-skating on the frozen pond. cross-country skiing(my wife has been out with the neighbors, i don't ski). other people golf, but i don't. we also help out/attend fundraisers for the local animal shelter...and other things...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

92. You should write about it. That just doesn't happen. Maybe you people live closer together?

Are there stores in your neighborhood? Do you need a car for things?

[dysfunctional press]

126. no stores in our subdivison.

and most of the houses are spaced a lot farther than in the newer subdivisions. we all have wells and septic fields- one of the reasons for the larger lots.

what is it that you say "just doesn't happen"?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

148. Becasuse it doesn't. - just last night PBS had a special on exactly what I'm talking about nt

[dysfunctional press]

155. what doesn't?

and what exactly are you talking about? :shrug:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

159. You have to go backwards over the different posts and follow the thread lol

It's about our car-suburbia-nation, and how we are a nation of isolated individuals, accustomed to being alone.

[dysfunctional press]

178. i was alone much more when we lived in the city- i was much more 'isolated'...

there is definitely a stronger sense of community in our suburban subdivision.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

187. You need to live in Euorpe to know the difference

Depression and individual isolation can happen anywhere, but as a whole, Europeans are more of a unit, while the U.S. is a country of isolation. Others who have experienced the difference between a European lifestyle and an American lifestyle, have already commented.

[dysfunctional press]

194. no, thank-you.

i prefer life in these united states.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

197. SO.... you don't know what the other side is like, but you "prefer" the only side you know?

Okay

[dysfunctional press]

204. i know others who have come from it, and i have visited...

and i prefer the american way of life.

that's why i live here.

if you prefer a european way of life so much more- why don't you live there? :shrug:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

205. Touring? nt

[dysfunctional press]

206. "touring?" ?

:shrug:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

207. Yes. I mean, when visiting one doesn't get the nuances of living there nt

[dysfunctional press]

210. no, they usually don't.

[AndyTiedye]

123. Community

People often equate density with community. This doesn't work so well when the apartments turn over an average of every 2-3 years.
Community requires some level of stability.

OTOH, too much stability makes the "community" virtually impossible to join. You aren't a real member of the community unless your parents were born there.
So it is in small-town New England.

If it is an ethnic community, you have to be part of that ethnic group.

We have found more "community" up here in the mountains of northern California than anywhere else we have lived.

[KoKo]

174. Carrots, Green Beans and Lettuce...and CANNING...n/t

[cobalt1999]

57. Absolutely not.

Simple doesn't mean crowded.

I'm more inclined to agree with Daniel Boone who when someone settled a farm 12 miles from his cabin complained about the crowds.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

87. Yep, people here answer that way. It's because they are not used to a social way of living nt

[AndyTiedye]

118. Our Ancestors Moved Here Mostly To Get AWAY From All That Close Proximity

Not everyone has the social instincts required to thrive in a high-density city.
One can learn to fake it to some extent, but doing so continuously becomes exhausting.

People came to America for many reasons, but the "American Dream" was always about space.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

198. Actually, they moved away to get away from religion, and now here is where religion is choking us ..

They also ran away from oligarchists and the gap between rich and poor, and we have that here too.

Europe is looking mighty good.

[Dappleganger]

211. Mine moved here for potatoes...

The Potato Blight drove my relatives here.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

212. Oh you're not a pilgrim - those who established this country came here for freedom from religion and

its king

[uppityperson]

134. family living in France would laugh at that take.

They have much more strict rules and never ever "drop in" on anyone. They also do not typically go into people's homes beyond the family/dining room, and toilet. Even people they have known for yrs.

I live on the west coast, grew up in midwest, where we all drop in and hang out all over each others homes. Their culture is more like east coast (ny? big city?). They live closer together, unless they are rural, because they have lived there for so long and haven't the extra land like we have out here. Living in towns and rural areas, I knwo my neighbors, we use and help each other a lot.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

199. No, but people get invites to one another's flats and homes all the time....

I know that for a fact. Plus people meet up constantly. In Spain, Portugal and Italy people drop in on one another without calling.

[PVnRT]

150. Some of us aren't "people persons"

It has nothing to do with some grand conspiracy to isolate and destroy, it is simply genetics. I do not want to have random conversations with strangers. I am naturally shy and do not walk up to people and talk. I get easily bored and aggravated by mindless conversation. I prefer to be alone. Does this make me a defective in your ideal world?

I see a large city, I see overcrowding, pollution, sprawl, rude people, worse drivers and a more expensive cost of living. If that's what you want, fine. Quit browbeating everyone who doesn't think exactly like you do.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

200. You can't be, not totally, if you're going to successfully live in the U.S. nt

[ferrous wheel]

14. My granny's house was a 3 room frame shack with no inside plumbing

at all except for a hand-pumped well. The only heat was a pot-bellied stove in a nondescript room between the kitchen
and bedroom. Not real efficient for central Illinois where it gets pretty cold. She obviously liked the dump, though because my
mom tried for years to buy her a new house, find her a modern apartment or something better but she wouldn't budge.

So to answer your question, no. Er, make that HELL NO.
:-)

[Aristus]

15. Don't know that I'd want to. My grandparents had a very unhealthy diet, due to ignorance

as to what all that shit was doing to their bodies. They both became obese and contracted diabetes, heart disease and hypertension. They both hardly ever read a book, or did a crossword, or something else to keep their minds engaged. They both contracted either Alzheimer's or some similar senile dementia. As loving as they were, they lived with some irrational, unreasoning hatreds. For example, my father's first Christmas gift to my mother when they were dating was Johnny Mathis' 1958 album, Merry Christmas. My grandparents wouldn't allow my mother to keep it in the house because "That singer's colored."

Not everything our grandparents did or had was better than the way things are today...

[colorado thinker]

21. Agreed. But I really was

just talking about living in a smaller footprint, with fewer possessions. No McMansion, no TV in every room, no 1000 sf closet packed to the ceiling with clothes and shoes, etc.

Previous generational diet and social mores are a different topic, of course.

[leftstreet]

22. Anderson Cooper probably could n/t

[femmocrat]

23. Both of my grandparents' houses were similar to the one you describe.

We went to one Grandma's every Sunday. The entire extended family. She would cook for all of us on a coal stove! I can remember trekking out to use the outhouse... it was dark and scary out there. She had a toilet put in the basement sometime in the 1960s. Never did have a shower or a bathtub that I can remember. She had a huge garden, berry bushes and a grape arbor.

Those Sundays and holidays at her house are among my best childhood memories.

[Turbineguy]

27. My Grandparents lived through

and during and in WWII.

When they came back from the evacuation, after the 3rd battle of Arnhem, their house was shot to pieces and looted.

They picked up the pieces and went on.

[carlyhippy]

30. Holey Moley, I bet it was a fast run to the bathroom in -40 degrees in January

where in ND?

[colorado thinker]

40. Bottineau County

near the Canadian border. And -40 has the advantage of freezing everything in the privy, know what I mean? Much better than in the summer.

[uppityperson]

135. ah, up in the Turtle Mts?

ex-Fargonian here.

[nichomachus]

41. AND -- about five or six bounces to melt the frost off the seat

before you could "get down to business."

[shari]

99. no, no, no

You don't bounce, you just lay newspaper over it.

[Alameda]

31. My apartment in NYC was over 100 years old. The bathtub was

in the kitchen, and the closet had been turned into a WC. There were only 15 amps to work with, as it had only been wired for electricity in the mid 30s. There was a cloth line in the air shaft for drying cloths. You also had to walk up 4 flights.

I had to leave when it was purchased by a corporation who wanted to coop and condo it. Spent 7 years in court over it and finally left. The last I heard the rent for it is now $4,000 a month. I was a statutory tenant, but it turned into a full time job going to court all the time, in the end I left.

I learned to spout seeds in the oven, work with very little electricity. It was good training....

[donco6]

33. We only had heat in three rooms.

Yeah, I think I could swing it. You do what you gotta do.

[AwakeAtLast]

34. I believe I can - after remembering what it was like

I lived in my grandparent's old farmhouse for four years. Seven generations have lived in it, and a cousin lives in it today. It had more space than I had ever lived in before or since, excluding the last two years because my husband and I were finally able to buy a house (I'm 39). My grandparents on the other side lived in an even bigger house. I've lived in small mobile homes for most of my life, so you really could say that, until now, I've lived below my grandparents when comparing size of house and monetary security.

Your comment about walk-in closets struck me funny, because in the farmhouse, each bedroom had a huge closet. When my grandparents lived there, At least two of them were filled with clothing. However, Grandma was a very good seamstress and used those clothes as material for other outfits. She just kept recycling clothing. We thought it was great - we had a blast playing dress-up!

:hi:

[Morning Dew]

38. That sounds like a mail order house from the WWI era.

My grandparents lived in a small village in Wisconsin - the were on the outskirts and didn't get indoor plumbing until the early 1970s. My other grandfather was much more modern and had his by 1967 or so.

[ZombieHorde]

39. Why would anyone want to live like that if they had a choice not to?

It was not the fanciest house but I remember stealing marshmallows from her pantry, playing board games on that dining room table, being allowed to watch one television program in her living room only one time during a visit, watching my grandmother and mother and aunts playing Scrabble at the kitchen table.

That sounds horrible.

Grandma didn't get an indoor bathroom until 1962.

Lame.

[leftstreet]

43. Because we're all supposed to sacrifice

Apparently that's the new theme, meme, talking point, whatever.

Look for more tips and ideas to just spontaneously pop up.

[ZombieHorde]

49. I thought the stimulas package is giving everyone tax cuts so we could spend.

Am I missing something?

[leftstreet]

54. Um...well, I think we'll get enough for marshmallows and a board game

:hide:

[Lorien]

47. That sounds "horrible"??

Wow. You truly bought the advertising, didn't you? That's a better life than 2/3 of the planet is given. Hell, we didn't have a TV when I was a kid and we didn't feel "deprived" in any way. We had the outdoors, a lot of books, and our imaginations-like so many generations before us.

[ZombieHorde]

50. What advertising did I buy?

[FedUpWithIt All]

166. I think it sounds lovely. The current norm. pales in comparison. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

179. What is the current norm? TV, games, and idle chatter?

[FedUpWithIt All]

193. No, i don't have a problem with technology. I do have a problem with the more, more, more...

You criticized a life that consists of marshmallows in the pantry, limited tv and scrabble. I think that type of lifestyle is enviable. You get to know your children/friends/family better when you sit down and play a game with them. Sneaking food from a full pantry offers security. Limiting time on electronics opens time up to other more emotionally interactive activities.

There is a lot of lost beauty in the race to acquire more. It is a shame.

[Lorien]

44. Yep. They were Mennonites, and it wasn't a bad life at all

We're brainwashed to believe that it's our "things' that brings us happiness. It's not. My Mennonite grandparents (that's like Amish with electricity) lived a very simple life. They never owned much, but they didn't want for much either. They had friends and family, good food fresh from the garden, and time to relax. What else does anyone need? We all WANT many things, but we can get by with surprisingly little if we make the people in our lives our top priority.

[Arugula Latte]

196. "What else does anyone need?" ... My answer to that is: "travel."

That's one thing about modern life that I would not want to give up (well, besides electricity and indoor plumbing -- I HATE being cold ... no outhouse for me if I can help it). My relatives hardly left northern Ohio. That's not the life for me ... I'd like to see as much of the planet as possible. It's expensive, though. I know I don't "need" to travel but I sure like to go if I can.

[Withywindle]

46. I pretty much do.

Third-floor 1 BR walkup apartment in a Victorian building; I do all my commuting and shopping and socializing by public transportation and walking, etcetera.

My grandparents were thrilled when they got to move away from all that after WWII. I kind of like it, though - I've never lived in a suburb and don't think I would ever want to, seems like the worst of both worlds.

[bonito]

48. I hear ya n/t

[shari]

51. what generation?

A 20 year olds grandparents were young adults in the early 60's, My parents were young adults in the early 40's and my Grandparents in the early 20's and they told stories of migrating west on prairie schooners and were some of the first settlers in Western Washington state. Big difference there :).

[vadawg]

55. lol true, my paternal grandfather was born around 1880

my father was born in the early 30's and i was born in the winter of 70, thats almost a hundred years, some peoples grandparents on this forum could be children of the 1960's

[jwirr]

95. I was born in 1941, parents in 1919 and my grandparents about 1900.

As I read the replies it occurred to me that the difference in attitude is shown in generational understanding.

[colorado thinker]

67. Good point.

I wondered when someone was going to point that out.

This lifestyle I describe was in the 1960's on a farm near the Canadian border. My Grandfather was born in 1888; my father in 1918, I was born in 1954. As you can imagine, this simple house was a big improvement over the house my Grandfather grew up in, out on the prairie in the 1890's.

Yes, the different generations on DU will have different grandparent experiences, but I believe that at the end of this "recession", we may all be living in a style similar to what I have described.

[Muttocracy]

52. I've spent my adult life in 1 bedroom apts or smaller

so that would sound very spacious to me. I've lived at field camps with minimal stuff and basic facilities and been very happy. I remember using my grandparents' outhouse and it was not such a big deal.

So, yeah, I could live that way happily. I give my mom grief for leaving the farm and making a "better life" elsewhere - where we sink all our money into rent.

[kestrel91316]

53. My dad and his 5 brothers were raised in a ranch in the middle of nowhere

in NV. When the older boys were in the two-room schoolhouse they made up the entire basketball team (my dad was the caboose and the shortest, so he wasn't).

Grandma didn't get indoor plumbing and electricity and a PRIVATE phone line until 1972, when I was about 15. When we visited them before that, we LOVED getting her water from the red-handled well pump out back of the kitchen door. Using the outhouse, not so much (and I now know there are ways of avoiding "that" smell if you have an outhouse). The ranch house itself only had one bedroom, so the boys all slept out in the bunkhouse, which had the cellar underneath that Grandma kept her food stores in (including vast quantities of meats and produce from the ranch). The main house only had a Franklin woodburning stove, and the cook stove and fridge ran on propane. The bunkhouse had NO heat.

If push came to shove, I would be comfortable living the way she was content to nearly her whole life. But I would have an indoor sawdust bucket toilet rather than an outhouse. And I wouldn't be the one sleeping in the bunkhouse.

I miss that red-handled pump and the ice cold sweet water.

[the_chinuk]

59. Everything Old Is New Again

Your missive made me think of recycling, and how it's all just old wine in new skins. Necessary, but still

Now, I live in Oregon, and we're very stylish about recycling. A recycling bin should be added to the state seal.

How few of us remember that the old credo of our (Depression-era) forbears, "Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without" was pretty much a seminal statement on practicality and recycling. The recycling came out of the "make do" clause. If you had a need, and you didn't think you had the materiel to make it happen, you could always repurpose a castoff. My wife's grandmother used nylon stockings for a hell of a lot of household needs.

And biofuels? During WWII, they called it "saving cooking grease for the war effort." Making do? Rationing coupons.

There's a certain thrift that we rediscover like it was a new thing when we need it but if we remember how our grands lived back when times were more modest, we'd all of a sudden start learning lessons we never knew we had to be taught.

Either that, or reinvent the wheel. Here in Portland, we're smug about being the paragon of Public Transportation That Works™. Just like everything, it's been rediscovered. A current initiative has us extending a local streetcar network into the city.

But back in the 1930s-1950s, Portland Traction Co. was acknoweldged in being the national leader in having the best streetcar network in a city of its size anywhere.

But now? The trackage is long gone. We will reinvent the wheel.

Cue the requisite Santayana quote, appropriate or not.

And regardless of how little we think our grands have, I don't ever remember them being anything but happy. They certainly didn't seem deprived.

Our eyes have gotten way too huge, I think sometimes.

[My Good Babushka]

62. I would love to live like my grandparents

with union jobs, job security, ample access to healthcare, and a healthy pension with which they could enjoy their little bungalow with peace of mind.

[leftstreet]

66. Post of the day!

:thumbsup:

[ContinentalOp]

180. Thank you! I was about to say...

Gee, I'd love to live like my grandparents and buy a dirt cheap house in a beautiful part of California on only a single income and live well into my 90s with a nice guaranteed retirement, etc. Oh the horror! :eyes:

[HillbillyBob]

63. One Grandmother lived in a half duplex, the other had a modest

modern house(after their trailer blew away in a tornado)
My Grandfather and his second wife live in an 1850s farm house in rural WV.
I lived it there as a kid. No indoor plumbing till 72.
They all grew up in the Depression and warned us about 8-9 years ago taht things were lining p for another. My partner and I lived in SoFla till 4 years ago when we hit our own personal depression when I got sick and could not work, he got outsourced twice in 6 months, we did have savings but one thing and another and a house guest from hell that ran up bills in our names...
We landed in a house in rural area near Asheville. No jobs no prospects.
He eventually found a job in Greensboro, we have been careful with money as our income is less than half of what we had before, and rented a house there.
We saw evidence that the housing market was about to tank, we found an abandoned newer (13 years old) modular on almost 9 acres well under market price that the bank was trying to get shut of. Our payments are about 1/2 what the rent was.
We have started collecting Heirloom seeds and last summer was our first year we could plant a garden, it has made a large dent in our food bill.
We also buy from local farmers things we cannot produce yet such as honey, eggs(coop to be built next year) beef we get from neighbors.
We don't have a landline telephone, but have cell phones, satellite tv and internet.
We are so far back in the woods as that cable does not come up here.
We plan on adding insulation and getting solar panels and are swapping appliances for super efficient ones as the old die off. We already have CFLs everywhere we can use them and will be swapping for more as they die off, we already have some LEDs now.
We are shooting for food and power independence in 10 years or less.
Here is to hoping we can get loans to do the solar power system if they become available.
If you have any yard or a terrace get some seeds and grow food.
We even have leds for fruit tree cuttings we have rooted to plant in the yard.
The lawn is about 2 acres and we are slowly turning that to edible landscape.
Mixing in flowers and other plants that cohabit and benefit each other or act as insect repellents (marigold callendula) and plants that kill off japanese beetles (4 O'Clocks, mirabilis) Japanese beetles cannot resist them and they eat and die.
We all may be living more like our grandparents in the next few years.
Using fewer resources, not polluting, reduce, reuse, recycle, and repurpose(we already do much as we can.

[madrchsod]

65. we kinda` do now.

about the same amount of space and life style. course we have more crap than they did i think if she was living in this time she`d have about the same. she cooked everything from scratch but that was her job on the farm. her fathers first wife died and he married a woman that also had 8 kids. depending on the age every kid had one or more jobs...

my other grandmother lost her farm after my grandfather was killed in a car accident in the 30`s. she lived with us until she died. she taught me how to cook,clean,wash (ringer machine) and iron clothes when i was a kid.

i learned a lot from my grandmothers and passed on what i learned about responsibility to my kids. i hate to think that i`m the last generation that has parents and grandparents that went through the great depression.

[applegrove]

71. I have a grandmother who was born in 1898. She lived her adult life

on a small farm. I wish I told her it was too bad the family was not up to par on how to do all sorts of thing she knew how to do. Like make butter or pluck a chicken.

[pnwmom]

73. Where did the family sit together if you didn't use the living room?

We've both lived in small houses like that -- except we had indoor plumbing! -- but the living room was well used.

[jwirr]

102. Kitchen tables were very useful for almost everything including

setting around while you did any number of activities. Mom had an easy chair in one corner so grandma could set with us after she broke her hip.

[pnwmom]

112. But the OP mentioned having a TV in the living room. Doesn't make much sense

to have a TV in a room that's almost never used. Why have a TV if you're not going to use it? Or an empty room in a tiny house?

[jwirr]

156. These empty rooms were used in the summer when they did not have

to be heated. As to the TV - I do not know why she did not use hers but I do know that we were not hooked on the box then as we are now. We watched programs back then not TV. It was turned off when our program was not on. Today we often leave them on in multiple rooms and I can ask why to that.

[laundry_queen]

74. I suppose I could.

I wouldn't want to though. The running water part is the catch. I can't imagine running to the outhouse at -40 in the middle of the night. I could imagine living off the land like they did, and heating the house with a wood stove and wood furnace, I love to chop wood. The house is old (100 yrs by now, with additions to it) but quite large, probably larger than mine. I'd have to change the location though, as the location of my grandparents' house is, imo, an awful place, bug-wise. I hate bugs.

Also, when my mom was little, they were insanely poor - so much so that when my grandmother applied for some school grant for my mom and was asked the family's annual income, the application came back with a note that they must've made an error in the income box.

My grandmother used to get clothes donated to them from the church, and my mom said that most of the clothes didn't fit, or had stains/holes so my grandmother would get to work, sewing (on a foot pedal machine) and creating new clothes out of the old clothes. They didn't get electricity until my mom was born (baby #6, 1955) and running water came when my mom was in high school. She didn't have kitchen cabinets until they had running water. TV came even later, with 1 fuzzy channel. All socks and winter wear were knitted, all food was homegrown or picked in the wild, and preserved. It was a very hard life for my grandmother.

And yet, my mom and her siblings have great memories of playing in the woods, berry picking, sledding and enjoying my grandmother's great cooking and homemade treats. They had plenty of extended family in the area that always stopped by, and had tons of fun with assorted cousins.

One thing I'm certain of....that I'm no happier at the moment than my grandmother probably was at my age. I might be more comfortable though.

[Mojorabbit]

136. My maternal grandmother

lived on Graciosa a small island in the Azores islands. I remember visiting when I was a child in the early sixties. No electric, corn ground at the windmill, she had a pig and chickens and a huge garden. We used a chamber pot which was kept under the bed if we had to go at night. :)

[jwirr]

75. I agree. As I read "World Made by Hand" that is what I thought. We

were returning to my youth. There are things I worry about though. In the post oil world heating that home will be a problem but you made me think about why that large dining room and kitchen were the center of the activity. Our dining room and kitchen where the same room and was warmed by the cook stove. That is why so much activity happened there. The beds had feather beds because they were warm and you often put a hot water bottle in to warm it up before you got in. Things were so much more peaceful then. I don't know what word I should have used for peaceful but it was different - easy going - contented - satisfying.

[lumberjack_jeff]

76. My grandfather was a coal miner.

In those days miners took pride in "taking care of their own". They had a big table outside the mine entrance on which miners would prepare their dead before sending them to the funeral home.

He woke up on that table twice.

No, I can't live like that, and I won't quietly accept it when the plutocracy tries for a do-over.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

77. My Gramma lived in Chicago's Humbolt Park area.

She had a large room in a rooming house with a murphy bed and a kitchenette that couldn't have been more than four feet wide.
Her window faced a brick wall, but if you leaned far enough to the left you could see the courtyard below where the kids in the
nearby apartments played. Often she would cook a chicken dinner for her grandkids in that little kitchen that rivaled anything
out of a "chef's kitchen." We would watch "Gunsmoke" and "Sing Along with Mitch."

Some of my dearest memories, and most meaningful lessons happened spending time with her in her piece of heaven

[datasuspect]

191. My gramma lived in Chicago's Bridgeport neighborhood

in a basement apartment. there were always little debbie cakes and she had parakeets.

when i got my first job where i had to wear a tie, she thought it was terribly important (i was a lowly clerk).

similar chicken memories.

[NoSheep]

78. I already do.

[Evoman]

79. I COULD live anywhere and adapt. But I don't fucking want to.

I grew up in a horrible small house in a horrible neighbourhood. We were freakin poor, man. After that, I think I could survive anything. I live in a two room apartment with my gf and it's practically heaven...I'm glad that between us both, we really want for nothing. Food in the fridge, a computer, hot water.

But that doesn't mean that I won't try getting more. We live in a society were there are people who spend what I make in a year every week. And that doesn't make me fucking happy. I'm not planning on accepting shit, if my world falls apart and someone else is eating caviar.

Really, as long as I can improve my life, I'll play along. You take my shit or my ability to improve my life, and I'm gonna be a fucking nightmare. I am not going to stand in a soup line while someone else parties with champaigne. And there are hundred of people like me....

[shari]

90. Lots of us grew up poor

maybe even poorer than you were. And guess what, in this world there will always be people who have more than you do, and there will always be people who have less.

[Evoman]

94. And?

What I'm trying to get across is that I'm not going fucking back to what I was. I'm not gonna live in a shit hole so that someone else can have my share of the pie.

A lot of people are trying to impress me with how poor they can get...how they can get used to "spending less" or "living leaner". That's all fine and good, if it's an attempt to be more environmentally conscious or they are into sustainability. But if your living leaner because other people are taking away your shit, so that they can add it to their already enormous pile, then fuck you.

I'm not playing that game. That shit does not impress me.

[shari]

104. You misunderstand

I don't think they are talking about how poor they can get....they are talking about how they can survive in hard times....and how much pleasure a person get from a simpler life, not necessarily a poorer life, how they can live without all those "things" that we 'want' but don't really need.

[Evoman]

107. Heh...again, all fine and good. But if a simpler life is outdoor plumbing, and a one room house,

then count me out.

A even better way to survive in hard times is to take shit from people who have too much.

I get ya, though. Simple life can be a rich one. The danger, though, is getting too used to simplifying, instead of fighting for what you deserve.

[shari]

115. Deserve?

I have one son..he chose to get married and have a family. He couldn't go school because he had to work full-time to support that family and didn't have enough time left for school, nor could he afford it. He's a millworker. I have another son....rather than get married and have a family he chose to go to school....and believe me, he earned his degrees...now, he does very well for himself. He's smart with his money..Guess what, when Lehmans went under and he lost his job he was prepared and is doing fine while lots of his friends lost everything they had because they didn't prepare, 'choices' again. He 'deserves' whatever he has because he has earned it. Now, am I to believe that son #1 "Deserves" what son #2 has? No...usually what we have is a direct result of the choices we make in our lives. I know, there are exceptions to this and life isn't always fair, but I don't understand begrudging someone what they have earned and feeling that I 'deserve' the same if I haven't earned it.

[Evoman]

119. Who said anything about not earning your way?

You think I got out of that shit-hole by luck? Nuh uh. I live smart...only debt I have is my student loans, and I'm paying those off quick. Right now, I don't feel like the odds are against me. Right now, I don't feel like a bunch of rich fucks are trying to fuck me over so they can have more (or if they have, they haven't been completely successful). But like I said, I'll be damned if I accept living like a peasant so that the king can have another statue.

If I lose the ability to use my talents and smarts and perseverance to live a good life and improve my life, that's when the shit hits the fan.

[shari]

120. Sounds to me

Like you're on the right track and making good decisions, but when you get there just remember that lots of the other people didn't get there by sheer luck either, lots of them earned it and they deserve it. Good luck to you....it sounds like you're doing good.

[SheilaT]

80. I, for one, am not about to wax romantic about

no electricity and no indoor plumbing.

Not everyone, not even everyone on DU lives in a McMansion. But most of us have indoor plumbing and electricity.

My grandparents, who were born in the early 1880's in Ireland grew up without electricity or indoor plumbing and were very glad when they acquired both, probably in the 1920's in this country.

For what it's worth, my younger son, now 21, does consider himself to have a deprived childhood because he was just about the only kid he knew who didn't have a TV in his bedroom. I felt strongly that one TV was plenty for the entire family, and that the worst possible thing for a kid was to be able to go off to his own bedroom and watch TV for hours and not communicate with the rest of the family.

At present I don't have a TV at all, and I'm quite content without one.

[Starry Messenger]

83. I wish I could.

Both sets owned houses and could afford to have children.

[scarletwoman]

89. Sounds lovely. My extended family of Norwegian immigrant farmers in northwestern Minnesota lived

much the same lifestyle. I was born into the branch of the family that had moved to the "Cities", but every few years throughout my childhood we all traveled to Dalton, MN for big family reunions. I always loved sleeping in the attic bedroom of my Great Aunt Lena's farmhouse.

I'm not too far removed from that lifestyle. I've been living in a 20'x32' little cabin in the woods with no plumbing for over 10 years now. It's paid off, my property taxes are quite low, and I have 10 acres of land. Up to now, I haven't put any effort into clearing a space for a vegetable garden because I've had a decent paying job. But the time has come. My hours have just been reduced to 32 per week, and that's probably just the prelude to even worse news ahead.

I recognize that I still have a much more luxurious lifestyle than my forebears -- I have a telephone and electricity and propane heat, along with a TV (no cable) and a microwave oven and a computer.

I have the advantage of being an old hippie who never aspired to a materialistic lifestyle. I don't own a credit card. Over the years I've learned how to survive on very little, and I've learned how to garden and gather wild food, and how to use the local medicinal herbs.

I'm pretty sure I'll be okay if my job will just last until the end of winter.

sw

[Missy Vixen]

96. Let's see here

We live in a 2100 square foot house. We don't have granite countertops, interior designers or hugely expensive furniture. We didn't go for the jetted tub. We do have a gas fireplace, though, and it enabled us to stay in our house during the week-long power outage post-hurricane -- oops, windstorm -- in December, 2006.

Both of my grandparents had a home in which there was indoor plumbing. My maternal grandmother lived in a bedroom of her former boarding house. My paternal grandparents had a typical suburban home. I don't have the warm and fuzzy family memories the rest do. My maternal grandmother died when I was about ten; my paternal grandmother was an alcoholic.

I'd love to believe we could all go back to gathering around the radio, growing our own food and making our own clothes, but here are facts: Most people now have a computer, for instance. Most people don't care for communal living unless they have no other choice. Most people will be so busy trying to keep their heads above water that the "simple pleasures" might be only eight hours of sleep a night.

I like playing board games and having people over to visit, too, but I think the "simple life" will be radically different than some in this thread are picturing. I think that, perhaps, shopping will take a back seat to paying off debt and learning to do more with less. I think the future will reveal itself as we go.

Of course, all of this is IMHO.

[Evoman]

108. Not only that, but most of the people in the past would have LOVED to live like us.

Okay, they might have been scared of computers or whatever, but if you had told your average person living in that dilapitated shack with outdoor plumbing that they could live in a warm house, with indoor plumbing, large closets, and refrigeration, they would have taken it in second. They would probably think your a nutjob for wanting to live like them.

[Missy Vixen]

111. Evoman, I absolutely agree

I grew up with two sisters and our parents in a 900 square foot house. I KNOW my mother would have been thrilled to see our house; she's been gone for 18 years now.

The biggest dream most of our parents (and grandparents) had is that all of us would do better than they did. If there was anything I think they'd all tell us, it's that life goes by fast, and we should enjoy everything we're given. Plus, we should share with others who aren't quite as fortunate. They deserve a great place to come home to, too.

Your little apartment sounds really, really nice. Cozy, comforting, and above all, the important people are there, right? :hug:

[Evoman]

117. I have a very peaceful life. My gf and I never fight, no kids, a pretty good life.

And I feel sorry for any person who tries to take it away from me.

[dmallind]

121. But the usual DU reverse snobbery ignores this point

The reason more and more people moved to bigger houses with more space and luxuries when they could afford to is not some Macchiavellian plot by evil plutocratic manipulators who advertised the "consumerist" lifestyle until they all drank the kool-aid. It's because it's a shitload more comfortable and pleasant to have space and conveniences. And don;t give me the "you don't understand Europe" crap either - I was born in England and lived there 22 years. My dad still lives in the (by no means low end in UK terms) same house - an 800 sq ft pokey hole with one two-bar fire in the living room for heat, a second bedroom that is physically impossible to fit in an a bed and a wardrobe together and a kitchen that you can't even pick up a cat in let alone swing it. Accustomed to that all my life you better believe my first exposure to the "luxury" of a $330 one bedroom walk up apartment in South St. Louis did not illicit the reaction "Oh my god I will now lose my sense of community and shared space". It was "Fucking great this bedroom is the size of my Dad's entire ground floor and my wife and I can have a bed big enough for two people!" closely followed by "hey you mean there's heat in ALL the rooms?" and "We can actually go to the bathroom at the same time?".

Count me out while I ever have a damn choice.

[Mass]

105. Except for the bathroom and the fact I have a fridge, it is more or less how we live.

(only other luxury, computers connected to the Internet, but that is also how we work. We work at home and therefore do not use our car a lot, no fancy furniture, definitively no granite countertop, no walk in closet, and no central air conditioning) (and btw, we rent).

I am not sure how you are living.

[MrSlayer]

106. No. Who would want to live like that?

I have zero interest in being dirt poor, living in a dilapidated shack with no plumbing. I couldn't care less about furniture, paint colors and countertops though. That's my wife's department.

[BlooInBloo]

People who would rather give up than do anything else.

[WheelWalker]

184. Blessings.

[slampoet]

109. You're discribing my childhood and i am under 40.

[mwooldri]

110. Can I? YES, but please cut out that awful part between 1939 and 1945.

But can I live how my grandparents grandparents grandparents grandparents lived? I could... but it would sure be a hard life. I hate farming.

Mark.

[NeedleCast]

114. Pass

[AndyTiedye]

124. My Grandparents Lived In Much Bigger Houses Than We Do

They also watched MUCH more TV, and owned a helluva lot more clothes.

[Kaleva]

127. Home dental care is not for me

The remedy for a bad tooth was whiskey and a pair of pliers. I would also not be so keen on having to do very basic mortician duty for deceased family members. Neither of my grandfathers made it past the 6th grade as they had to go to work full time to help support their families.

[Hekate]

128. There's only so much turning the clock back I am willing to do. Plumbing is where I draw the line

Personally, I live in a town with rock-hard clay soil and periodic 7-year droughts. We've lived through water rationing and not flushing the toilet every time, but damned if I'm going to try to dig an outhouse in that clay for anything short of the ultimate disaster.

As a good citizen I have low-flow faucets and low-flow shower heads--and the showers work fine. I adore hot showers.

In terms of how we raised our kids, we tried to give them a sense of proportion. When our kids were outrageous teenagers we briefly went to a family shrink, who shook his head and said we were "the most counter-culture family he'd ever met." The kids were blown away because they associated "counter-culture" with long hair and pot, and how could it apply to their straight mom and stepdad? But it had to do with the values we tried to instill in them -- and those were counter-culture to late-20th century consumerist America.

Oh, and I don't have a walk-in closet either, although I would really, really like to have one. I'd also really, really like to have a library, because my books are taking up an inordinate amount of space, and I'm not getting rid of those. :evilgrin:

Hekate

[eleny]

130. There's a book you might enjoy reading...

It's called Little Heathens by Mildred Armstrong Kalish.

I borrowed it from the library and then had to have my own copy. The author was raised during the depression in Iowa. Even though I was born and raised in NYC, I appreciated what she related about her life. She's now in her 90s and lives in California.

Btw, hi from Lakewood. :hi:

[Sheets of Easter]

131. I'm not so self-loathing and guilt-ridden to even consider it as a voluntary option.

I live paycheck to paycheck, and there's a lot in life I don't really want or need, but I am not about to deny myself anything out of principle, and I highly doubt anyone in any situation would either.

[uppityperson]

137. I have and don't want to again, but agree on changing expectations.

Do you really need the latest fashions, the newest or most expensive toys? Do you really need what you are buying or why are you buying it?

There are lots of changes on what we expect to have and what we can afford. Lots of changes coming. I have lived without plumbing or electricity and prefer to not do so again. But I could. And figuring out what I truly NEED to survive, then what I need to be happy, then what I do not need but can get, that is a good thing to learn.

I have granite counters and painted wood floor since we can't afford the flooring yet. The granite came from a tool supply place, is for some industrial use. They are blocks 18X18 inches (or 24, can't remember) and 3-4 inches thick. They are not as lovely as some, but were very inexpensive though weighed a lot, hard to lift onto the cabinets.

Sometimes I feel bad about what I don't have, but then look around and see how well I have it, and how nice, and figure we will keep working on our house. Now, fashions? Blech.

[ThoughtCriminal]

141. My grandparents could only dream of such luxury

In the 60's, their farmhouse was freezing in winter and broiling in the summer. The furniture, especially the beds were diabolically uncomfortable. Taking a hot bath meant heating water on the stove. I would not call their life simple - in fact simple things were often difficult and time consuming.

And yet - we did enjoy visiting them. Granddad was always fun and Grandma cooked amazing meals in that ancient kitchen. And over time, my parents helped improve the living conditions substantially (gas heat, air conditioning, a tall TV antenna that could actually pick up a few stations).

[Kaleva]

144. I grew up in an old farmhouse with a woodstove for heat.

During winter, it was damn cold in our bedrooms and I remember many times seeing my breath as a lay in bed in the morning. I'd keep my clothes on the floor and reach for them so I could get dressed under the covers before making a mad dash downstairs to stand next to the kitchen wood stove.

It's a life I wouldn't want to go back to.

[JCMach1]

143. My great-grandmother shared her house with her business

(a small grocery) until she was 92yo and broke her hip. She was very active and vital until the last 5 years of her life (she lived to 99).

[yellowwood]

147. Dead at Thirty-Nine

My grandmother was dead at thirty-nine after having eight children. I never saw her. So let's start with healthcare and family planning as something we cannot "live" without.

I don't think that the question about "how we live" refers to voluntarily reduced living conditions. I think that it refers to mandatory living conditions, beginning with living within one's income. I often worry that our comfortable lifestyle is threatened by world events, and, no, I won't like it, but can I live with less? Yes, I can!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

164. Yes, healthcare is absolutely essential.

Healthcare and family planning. Many people nowadays seem to think that being pregnant and delivering a baby is easy; nothing to it; etcetera. I'm talking about people who think midwives can handle ALL deliveries, that obstetricians are evil and that they force women to have unnecessary c-sections.

Actually pregnancy and childbirth are historically major causes of maternal and infant death, without proper medical interventions such as C-sections and aseptic technique. Many hundreds of thousands of women each year die around the world due to lack of proper medical interventions, according to the World Health Organization.

Anyone who wants to tell me I'm less of a mother because I had a MANDATORY c-section, to save my life and the life of my child, can go to hell. Because I and my child would not be here.

[PVnRT]

151. Yes, I would love to be able to get an actual house for a reasonable price

Like my grandparents did. Virtually impossible today without saving up for years.

[MedleyMisty]

153. I have indoor plumbing and heat and A/C

but other than that my house doesn't sound too much different. We even only have one floor, OMG!

We bought it in July for almost $80,000. Two bedrooms, one bath, a living room, a kitchen, and a dining room. It's perfect and I love it and even if I could afford more I wouldn't want it.

I guess if you have a really huge family I can see maybe having a problem with the house like the one you describe, but I don't see how it's all "OMG can I do it?" if your family is normal sized. Hell, it's still a lot more than most humans have.

Actually, I'd say the appropriate question would be "Why the fucking hell do I expect to have lots of shit?" Honestly, if you're all "OMG how can I live in a house smaller than a McMansion and not redo it constantly and not always buy new stuff???!!!" there's something terribly wrong there.

[WCIL]

157. I was born in 1965

so my grandparents were pretty well established. Living like my paternal grandparents would mean living in a Tacky Palace, complete with red-flocked wallpaper, pink squishy toilet seats that talked and string art. My maternal grandparents lived in a paid-for house in small town California. They had a fireplace, breakfast room, sunroom, music room, and 3 bedrooms. Hell yeah, I could live like that - it's better than how I live now!

As for my great-grandparents, one set lived in a 4 room guesthouse in the backyard of the California property and were supported by their daughter and son-in-law. Yes Please!

Both sets of paternal great-grandparents lived in rural Northeast Missouri. The farm set had plenty of land, a well, and a chicken house. They had 4 rooms downstairs and 2 open rooms upstairs. The upstairs was closed off because they had no need for it after the children were gone. One room was a parlor, which held their fancy furniture (heavy Victorian stuff) and was only used for non-family company. The dining room was never used. The kitchen had running water. The front room held their bed, two rocking chairs, and the television set. They rose at dawn and went to bed when it got dark. It seems to be the lifestyle many people want to return to, and I could, but there was no bathroom. I do not fancy using the stinky outhouse or filling a washtub for a bath, and don't see why anyone would want to. The "town" set lived much the same way, including having a well and chickens, but they had indoor plumbing. It would be easy to live like that.

[H2O Man]

163. Interesting OP & thread.

I remember my grandparents' houses. I live in an old farm house, which was a stage coach station shortly after the Revolutionary War. I have tools from one grandfather, and cook books and cooking/baking utensals from the other. I also have a number of items from my great-grandparents, etc.

While I do enjoy comforts such as the internet and flush toilets, I can always get by.

[FedUpWithIt All]

165. We live pretty modestly and aspire to become more so. I think it is a richer life. n/t

[tilsammans]

167. I still do!

I am the last member of the family living in my grandparents' house. I've done cosmetic work, upgraded the electrical, and replaced old plumbing fixtures that broke or were about to break. I have had virtually all their old furniture reupholstered. I have no countertops, granite or otherwise. And -- horrors! -- I get by without a single walk-in closet.

Other than a kickass MacBook, I have pretty low-end techno stuff. Late 1990s TVs. A classic 80's boom box.

But I have beautiful oak floors and solid-as-a-rock plaster walls. And 27 windows! Real windows!

:)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

168. Some people are confusing simplicity with health and safety.

Electricity is necessary where I live, because of the oppressive heat and humidity in the summer. I've gotten heat exhaustion in air conditioning while exercising. It's not pretty. I had to go to the ER.

And indoor plumbing is necessary to keep germs from the toilet isolated, and so is hot water to clean. In fact, hand washing of dishes with hot water from the tap is NOT hot enough to kill germs. I use a dishwasher.

People who think living without electricity and indoor plumbing is wonderful can go live that way.
I lived almost a week without electricity after Hurricane Ike. The whole town was going nuts and everybody in Houston has Post Traumatic Stress.

I had to heat up water in tea kettles on my gas stove to take a sponge bath. That was not fun.

Feather beds? No way. I've slept on my grandmother's beds that were on a box spring that bucked like a horse. I started sleeping on her carpeted floor because my back would kill me. She got mad because I would not sleep on her soft beds. I told her "Doctor's orders", which was true.

[Canuckistanian]

170. Will the Wii still work on one of those old B&W TV's?

If so, then yes.

Seriously, I could live anywhere that is warm in the winter and keeps the bugs out.

I've lived in electricity-free former communes and spent whole summers in a tent or trailer.

It wouldn't be my first choice now, of course, but I could again.

[ecstatic]

171. My grandparents lived pretty good. My great parents...

well... I don't know how they lived but it couldn't have been well. :shrug:

[cynatnite]

172. "Life was simpler"

:eyes: Right.

It usually is when you're a kid...no matter the decade. I was a kid in the seventies and life was simple then, too.

If I had a dime for every time I hear or read about someone lament about those simple days of their childhood. Your parents and grandparents would probably not agree.

[KoKo]

173. Oh Yes, I Can.....I know how to sew, dry foods, can foods and LIVE!

Thanks to my Depression Era Grandparents ....I do know how to survive. AND...there are MANY of us BOOMERS...that you would be surprised at who DO know how to do it.....contrary to the prevailing Opinion about us Slacker Boomers here on DU. WE CAN SURVIVE...WE KNOW HOW TO DO IT!

[ContinentalOp]

181. Our house is WAY smaller and on far less land...

than any of four sets of me and my wife's grandparents. We also have far higher healthcare costs, paid out of pocket rather than paid by our employer. Both of us work, as opposed to our grandparents who mostly survived on a single income. We have far less job security than they did and basically NO pension or retirement plan or anything like that.

Not to mention our PARENTS. The gap there is even more shocking, but of course the privileged baby boomer generation doesn't see this. Hi there DU boomers, I'm talking to you.

On the other hand we have a far skinnier TV. So there's always that. I guess we really are better off :eyes:.

[misanthrope]

183. From reading this thread...

...I think too many people have seen "The Waltons" re-runs and think it's a documentary rather than television make-believe.

[quaker bill]

188. Simplicity is a Quaker testimony

so, in a sense, I have no problem with this. However, I question whether this is a means to accept exploitation or defeat it. Now, if simple living comes with a meaningful reduction in the work week so time may be spent attending to simpler things, I am good with it. But if "simple living" comes through the acceptance of lower wages for full time (and overtime) work while the investor class and board rooms continue to rake in the cash, then I am in opposition.

Some simpler living is inevitable and could easily be desirable. It is important to remember that folks, like my grandparents, worked quite hard in "simpler times". This sort of lifestyle is not something you do in your spare time after a 50 hour work week.

[Horse with no Name]

190. I was in the mall a few weeks ago. I was in Macy's

I was looking at the kitchen paraphernalia that they had displayed, but what struck me sooo vividly was that they now had a set of small appliances, dishes, etc in the same color of my Grandma's kitchen.
Think about that.
My Grandma ONLY had one kitchen and it was the same color of blue until the day she died.
http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=321492&CategoryID=26192&LinkType=SiteAd&LinkLoc=7497&AdID=503325

I can't even tell you what vivid memories seeing those colors brought back.

I can still remember her couch, her tables, for goodness sake I even remember the bed linens.

It is sad that our Grandchildren will NEVER have memories like that because we all are too addicted to the material things.:(

[spinbaby]

192. Hell no

My maternal grandparents lived in a thatched house with no plumbing and died young of diseases that would be perfectly curable today.

[Fumesucker]

202. My residence now and for the foreseeable future..

The only thing you can't see in this pic is the dining table where I have my computer set up, that's in the second pic. I'm parked on my daughter and son in law's large property, no rent and I pay them a little for electricity and water.. I leech off their Wifi for my intertubez connection.

I have my shop in one of their three garages where I make miniature antique and fantasy weapons from semi precious metals and exotic woods to sell for the little income I really need.

Me and the dawgs are happy here, I take care of my grandkids after school and at those other times their parents are busy, the kids are glad to have me here to keep an eye on things when they have to be away.

[Horse with no Name]

209. What a great trade off for all of you

:)