Chris Hedges: It’s Not Going to Be OK

[marmar]

from Truthdig:



It’s Not Going to Be OK
Posted on Feb 2, 2009

By Chris Hedges


The daily bleeding of thousands of jobs will soon turn our economic crisis into a political crisis. The street protests, strikes and riots that have rattled France, Turkey, Greece, Ukraine, Russia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria and Iceland will descend on us. It is only a matter of time. And not much time. When things start to go sour, when Barack Obama is exposed as a mortal waving a sword at a tidal wave, the United States could plunge into a long period of precarious social instability.

At no period in American history has our democracy been in such peril or has the possibility of totalitarianism been as real. Our way of life is over. Our profligate consumption is finished. Our children will never have the standard of living we had. And poverty and despair will sweep across the landscape like a plague. This is the bleak future. There is nothing President Obama can do to stop it. It has been decades in the making. It cannot be undone with a trillion or two trillion dollars in bailout money. Our empire is dying. Our economy has collapsed.

How will we cope with our decline? Will we cling to the absurd dreams of a superpower and a glorious tomorrow or will we responsibly face our stark new limitations? Will we heed those who are sober and rational, those who speak of a new simplicity and humility, or will we follow the demagogues and charlatans who rise up out of the slime in moments of crisis to offer fantastic visions? Will we radically transform our system to one that protects the ordinary citizen and fosters the common good, that defies the corporate state, or will we employ the brutality and technology of our internal security and surveillance apparatus to crush all dissent? We won’t have to wait long to find out.

There are a few isolated individuals who saw it coming. The political philosophers Sheldon S. Wolin, John Ralston Saul and Andrew Bacevich, as well as writers such as Noam Chomsky, Chalmers Johnson, David Korten and Naomi Klein, along with activists such as Bill McKibben and Ralph Nader, rang the alarm bells. They were largely ignored or ridiculed. Our corporate media and corporate universities proved, when we needed them most, intellectually and morally useless. ........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090202_its_not_going_to_be_ok/

[tavalon]

1. He's right

I've wanted a week or two to enjoy this time, before the____________that comes after.

I think people are going to need to start forming collectives, whether they be of generational/familial kinds or chosen, I think the time has come for us to start working closely together to survive.

[marmar]

3. "to need to start forming collectives"

Agreed. If there's one good thing that might come out of all this, it's a re-emphasis on the value of community.

[bobbolink]

140. Riiiggghhhtttt...... Everyone is too invested in their rugged individualism.

Just look at DU.

You really see a chance for "collectivism" here?

No, there will have to be a hell of a lot more hurt before that can ever happen.

[RJ Connors]

5. He is not just right, he is dead on right. n/t

[The_Commonist]

96. I call those collectives we need to be forming...

"Commonizm."

It's just a meme I would like to spread.
Commonizm.
Because like it or not, we are all in this together.

[readmoreoften]

111. We don't need to revert to medieval family communalism. We need a society by and for working people.

Communalism has been done since about 1400. In fact, Plato was mocking the idea as antiquated 2500 years ago. We live in an urbanized world. Communalism isn't much different than factionalism and won't solve our problems. No one cared more about the "German community" than Hitler. Chosen communities are luxuries of capital: I want my burger this way, I want my neighbors to be like me. To hell with that. Being able to cope with diversity has never been more important.

This is a class war. First they make a profit off working class labor, then they make a profit swindling the working class into predatory loans to purchase the items made by the ingenuity of workers, and now they rob the taxed income of workers to buy up their losses.

This won't be fixed until we weed out the predators and sociopaths. We're like a herd of domesticated animals who want to 'live in peace' with parasites.

What we need are workers' councils.

[AntiFascist]

143. The wealthiest 1% would probably like nothing more than....

for the rest of us to accept a communist/socialist system, while the elite few continue to live off of the "fat of the land" and "the cream of the crop". We can all shop at the super-globalist Walmart and McDonalds restaurants (hey, Denny's is offering a free breakfast everyone!), while the elite few who know how to handle their wealth can wallow in "the finer things in life".

Is this a system you would accept?

I don't believe that true competetive capitalism has ever really been given a chance to succeed. Socialism for the wealthy has been too easy to achieve while politicians are bought and sold via K-street. The problem with this is that society will eventually stratify, stagnate and die. I would prefer a healthier solution.

[bread_and_roses]

"true competitive capitalism" had children slaving in factories, injured workers

left to their own meagre or non-existent resources for health care and subsistence, private "security" bashing the heads of workers trying to gain rights, sold people adulterated milk, poisonous medicines, and diseased meat, all while fighting tooth-and-nail-and-fist-and-dollars-and-influence any attempts to protect worker's rights, children's rights, voter's rights, consumer rights, environmental protections, etc etc etc.

Free, unfettered capitalism on its' own did not offer workers compensation, eight-hour days, sick time, family leave, non-discriminatory hiring and promotion, etc etc etc.

"Free unfettered capitalism" had its' day at the dawn of the industrial revolution and created hell on earth in the name of low costs and high profits. Because that is what "capital" demands. How anyone, especially after these last eight years, could still be touting "free, unfettered capitalism" as a solution beggars my imagination.

[AntiFascist]

178. I'm not advocating "free, unfettered capitalism" ala the Republicans...

strict regulation and non-corrupt unions which place employee concerns as top priority would take care of most of the problems you mention, and would still allow competetive capitalism to function as it should. Outsourcing to nations which exploit workers is always a problem, but regulation could place foreign workers on an even playing field with Americans while, at the same time, making American workers more cost-effective to hire (although I don't expect to see this happen very easily, even with Democrats in power. The corporocratic forces are still too powerful.)

The main problem I see is the Federal government's relationship to companies. Ideally, the Federal government should be balancing out the power of the big companies by favoring those companies which are less corrupt, treat their workers well, provide quality products, and are working toward positive environmental goals. Unfortunately, the opposite is often true and we end up with a fascistic system where only the most powerful of the wealthy are favored and allowed to survive, where citizens sometimes are terrorized into conformity.

[The Brethren]

162. You have put together one of the best

post I have seen on this subject.

In particular: "I don't believe that true competitive capitalism has ever really been given a chance to succeed. Socialism for the wealthy has been too easy to achieve while politicians are bought and sold via K-street."

I wish more people understood how different systems are set-up and used for us and against us. One of the important losses, in my opinion, that I feel has affected our country, in addition to our economy, is the loss of independent spirit and drive. Things work smoother for those in control when the masses live more uniformly. Efficient albeit, but it lacks room for character and the rewards....and risks that capitalism for ex., should allow.

[Baby Snooks]

173. That's what oligarchy is...

"The wealthiest 1% would probably like nothing more than....
for the rest of us to accept a communist/socialist system, while the elite few continue to live off of the "fat of the land" and "the cream of the crop". We can all shop at the super-globalist Walmart and McDonalds restaurants (hey, Denny's is offering a free breakfast everyone!), while the elite few who know how to handle their wealth can wallow in "the finer things in life"."

That is what oligarchy is. The few control it all. It is not much different from communism - instead of the state you have the corporation. The corporation controls the state. All eyes turn to Congress.

Mexico is an oligarchy. You have the ruling families. The ruling class. You have a middle-class but it really is just the worker class which serves the ruling class. And then you have the poor. Probably half of Mexico's poor fled here to find jobs. And created our new "middle class" which is now a worker class. And our poor? Same as Mexico's poor. Out of sight, out of mind, need a road map to another country?

The missing component in our oligarchy is the socialist component that basically creates the two-class system. The haves and have-nots. And the poor just simply don't exist. Which is what is happening. People no longer care about the poor. They don't exist.

The labor unions are about all that's left of America. And they won't last. They have no control over "guest workers" and they have no control over "outsourced workers" in other countries.

Americans want to work? Well, they can. At the prevailing wage. Which is slipping towards the minimum wage for many rather than a living wage.

I am convinced the majority of Congress supports oligarchy. Time will tell whether Barack Obama does.

[mistertrickster]

168. Mega-dittos. No justice is more important than economic justice. nt

[martha thacker]

169. Grow a garden

Individual and community. Whether the collapse is bad , horrible or some other adjective. Our food supply is unsustainable. Our own gardens are good for us physically mentally and spiritually.
I read an article by someone who was in Argentina when their economy went south. He said toilet tissue was highly prized. People were tearing pages out of books.
I am not personally into huge stocking up as I would give food to anyone who needed it and soon my supply would be gone. But the area where we all live ...will either help or hurt in difficult times and it is something to think about. How well do you get along with your neighbors?

[dothemath]

195. How well do you get along with your neighbors ...........

Okay, I guess. We don't cause each other problems. We could probably call on each other in an emergency and help would be forthcoming.

That would probably change if this nation (and the world) continue on the path we have been on since we evolved from quadripeds to bipeds. That path could lead us to a situation where my neighbor's survival rests in my larder - and then all bets are off. I won't capitulate and I wouldn't expect him to either.

Diversity has been mentioned several times in posts addressing the subject article. Like it or not, and extreme it may well be, protecting oneself when the social order breaks down is a choice - and the time to prepare to defend against predators is now. Waiting, and hoping, and planting a garden, will be too little and too late.

Humans are naturally predisposed to victimize others for gain, even when the final result is being 'hoisted on their own petard'. Willing victims are in the front of queue. I intend to be as far back from the front as I can get.

I do not want to become a victim any more than I already am. Neither do I want to victimize anyone. That being said, once it is out of my hands, I repeat "all bets are off".

[izzie]

2. Well could be true. GOP has cleaned us out of money

No jobs, so where is the tax money going to come from to run this place? I am sure it is why the rich have moved to So. Fr. with their money and left us high and dry. Bush did his job and we will pay for it. Any one with a brain could see Bush was a crook and would take every thing he could. It was his history and it was known before he came into office. Most of the people who voted for him got what they wanted that it will take many down will be a shock to them I guess. A few will just be richer. It will be hard to fix. But we have done it before.

[RJ Connors]

4. I was telling my wife the other day

that one of the aspects of the country's situation that is going to have to be tended to at some point is that American's are going to have to learn how to humble themselves in the not to distant future. While humility is certainly a core aspect of our country's major religion (Christianity) it has been rarely practiced for many decades now, long before I was born.

I think it is safe to assume that this will go over about like a fart in church and most likely prolong any so called recovery or peace with the rest of the world for about an additional 5 years.

[tavalon]

6. Send it to the Greatest Page please

I've recommended it 3 times now, luckily our kind administrators don't believe in the Chicago vote early, vote often!

[KharmaTrain]

7. It's Been Said This Was The Plan All Along...

The GOOP power and money elite knew their games could only last so long...and that if and when the time for the deck of cards to collapse it would happen on a Democrat...create such messes that a President Obama would have to spend a majority of his time in the first term in trying to keep things from getting worse...and that the patience of the American people will run out. The hope is that people will forget who created this mess, start believing the GOOP bullshit about being "fiscally responsible" and be back to fleece again in 4 or 8 years.

The difference between the US and those other countries is how far our labor movement has fallen. I can't recall the last real major strike that happened in this country...something that created a serious economic hardship...as opposed to these other countries that have fought long and hard for their labor movements. Unfortunately, we see unions pitted against one another or petty squabbles that all but prevent any real show of solidarity. The problem is the major decline in unions over the past 40 years that has diminished their political muscle. People fear their bosses more than they do the union.

While this mess is bad and will get worse, we do have things in place now that didn't exist during the Depression. Also, we're fortunate that the worst hit at the very end of the booosh regime, as opposed to Hoover who had 3 more years to screw things up even worse. In those days there was no social security or medicare or other government programs that could promptly respond to a public crisis...thus people will suffer...and it's a shame this has to happen, but I have faith the Obama Administration will address needs as they arise and work to restore a solvent banking and economic system.

I really don't see people in the streets...that's not the American way now. We suffer silently and are told and shown by our corporate media that things aren't as bad as we think...either showing us those who are worse or filling our heads with dreams of richer days ahead. Organizing requires a level of coopration this country isn't capable of.

[glinda]

37. I agree that the GOP knew this and planned this as well as

giving all their friends money any way they knew how in hopes of securing future power again. They knew they were going to loose. They took everything and ran. Obama should cull this out. Theft is theft.

[butterfly77]

74. I think so too..

I also think that they are trying to lose more jobs but they don't realize what they are starting. I wait each day because soon there will be many,many,more people in the streets and it won't be pretty. I believe some of them really don't see what's going and they are only trying to protect there investments here and over seas. They want some more money from the TARP and the stimulus.
'

[glinda]

79. Yes. It would be easy for them to move out of the Country after all of this

which is where our money probably is right now. I think riots are near if things don't clean up and get accounted for.

[butterfly77]

86. I know but where are they planning on hiding...

I believe its the arab country where Cheney sent all of his money..

[glinda]

163. Where is that? Dubai?

[fascisthunter]

147. I'm Pretty Convinced this Was Planned

...planned for generations to last generations. Wealth goes back up to the top... and the poor struggle once again to build a Middle Class.

A generation too long ago was lost and and younger, more spoiled and uneducated generation rose to only forget what was once learned during and before the Great Depression. Workers NEED to unionize and demand a better wage, because the corporations they work for, don't give a shit... their job is to make a profit, so the people have to unionize to protect themselves and build stability for their families.

[defendandprotect]

157. And to think what Clinton turned over to Bush . . . SURPLUS/PEACE .. . !!!

The GOP are professional destroyers ...

[eilen]

180. NYC MTA Transit Worker Strike 2005

and everyone I heard was complaining about the union members, how they were greedy and didn't even deserve what they had been getting. Absolutely no solidarity with them because people were mad that they had so far preserved benefits that many in the country weren't getting anymore. It made me sick. People were mad because they were inconvenienced. I was like, why not march with them? The media was clearly biased against the workers.

[Marrah_G]

8. It is going to be alright

It's going to be different.

But it will be OK.

We humans are a resiliant species.

We will adapt and change.

Perhaps, in the long run, we will even be better.

The Phoenix rises from the ashes.

[BeFree]

9. Land of the free!

And home of the brave.....

Yeppers, we are!

Free to ignore the realities and brave to keep on living like we do.

And that's not all......

[arcadian]

26. Humans yes,

Americans no.

The whole fucking country shut down yesterday for a fucking football game for proverbial Christ's sakes.

[Marrah_G]

33. There will be Americans who end up fine also

Will they still be called "Americans"? maybe, maybe not.

Humanity will go on.

I see no problem with people enjoying a sporting event. Sporting events have long been part of humanity.

[arcadian]

41. Actually you would be wrong in that assumption.

Sporting events have only been around a very short time. In fact they have only been around as long as humans have been able to use their time for nonessential, non survival, purposes which hasn't been that long. Up until recently, leisure hasn't been something that people have been able to engage in and has been the sole realm of the ruling class.

[azmouse]

44. 2000 years ago the Roman held sporting events.

The Greeks held Olympic games as far back as 776 BC.

Playing games is as natural to humans as making music.

[arcadian]

48. modern humans originated in east Africa about 200,000 years ago

n/t

[azmouse]

50. We don't know the behavior of early humans.

The may have held competitions to see who could throw rocks across a stream... or see who could outrun a dinosaur. ;)

[arcadian]

51. So you concede the argument to me?

Very sporting of you. ;-)

[RaleighNCDUer]

89. There's a difference between sports and sporting events.

Roman slaves were not exactly free to kick back in front of the big screen with a bowl of popcorn. The vaunted greek olympics involved a bare couple hundred participants and couple thousand spectators in a population of a couple million.

Sporting events, as we know them today, is an invention of the 20th century - with baseball reaching back a couple decades before that. In 1908 a guy was far likelier to play amateur baseball as a sport than ever see a professional baseball game. With TV, some shlub with a half dozen fights under his belt can be seen by a larger audience for a single bout than those who saw Jack Dempsey fight through his entire career.

"Playing games is as natural to humans as making music."

But being SPECTATORS to those games is on the whole a new phenomenon.

[PassingFair]

120. Um....

This might be a BIT older than 20th Century.

[The Brethren]

166. I think sports takes on a very different

meaning depending on when it takes place. Today's sports are extremely different then say the Roman's version of sports, which where barbaric to say the least.

[eilen]

181. Pre Christian Germanic Tribes

had sporting events. People had festivals throughout the year and sporting events were part of them. And yes, they stopped everything to celebrate and party (drink, feast and dance).

[Marrah_G]

45. Even tribal cultures played games, especially during feast days

or seasonal gatherings. It's nothing new. Humans have a competitive streak.

[arcadian]

49. On the evolutionary scale, "playing games" is only recent.

n/t

[Marrah_G]

56. Only in as much as our knowledge of daily life is recent.

As far back as we can go there have been games of some sort or another.

But our knowledge of that type of detail only goes back so far.

Your argument makes very little sense.

[arcadian]

59. Got any documentation to back that up?

Natural historians, archaeologists, paleontologists, etc. tell us otherwise. Sounds like you are picking and choosing which sort of history you want believe or that which "feels right" to you. I thought only fundies did that.

[bvar22]

136. To win your argument at this point,

...you will have to provide documentation from "Natural historians, archaeologists, paleontologists" stating that their evidence shows that early man DID NOT engage in any sporting behavior.
(There is NO such evidence.)

Cheers

[Tsiyu]

177. Stretchy-stretchy

To suggest that any human alive today has the knowledge - whether by textbook or field research - to claim they "know when games started to be played/observed by humans" is quite a stretch.

There is more that we don't know than that we know when it comes to ancient humans.

Old Stone Fort - near me. Nobody knows just what the hell it was used for. Man lived in my area over ten thousand years ago according to some. We don't know jack about them. Many archeologically significant sites have been destroyed by development, etc.

But there were peach pit and lacrosse and other games played by native people when Whitey got here.

Sounds like you are making a claim based on a fraction of discoveries - rather than admitting the jury is still out. New finds all over the globe are shedding light on ancient people that could prove you way, way wrong.

[arcadian]

190. "could" prove you way

Post 'em. Let's see them. Also, are there any other animals that engage in sport or have in their evolutionary development? MarrahG suggested that humanity has always played sports. Define humanity. Does that include our ancestors from 200,000 years ago?

MY only argument was that humans playing sports is a fairly recent occurrence when you take into considerataion how long humans have been on the planet evolving. Most of that time has been spent by humans essentially living like animals.

[Tsiyu]

196. "Living like animals"

Yes, that has been the prevailing view of Caucasian anthropologists and historians, blinding them to true research and discovery.

Everyone who wasn't born post 1950 was an "animal."

With that view of our ancestors, you should do well in the halls of modern academia....

You won't discover a thing to shatter your happy view, but that's not what counts, is it? What counts is that you die feeling you were correct.

Typical pablum.....but carry on.

[Runcible Spoon]

55. That's not true at all.

Actually, tribal level societies have MORE leisure time than industrial cultures.

On edit: If you have evidence in the record of brewing/consuming alcohol, I think it's safe to say you can correlate "leisure time" with getting wasted. If you want to refine your argument to say that organized sports is fairly recent, I would agree with that. However, a general concept of "games", well you could extrapolate that to mean just about anything.

[arcadian]

58. That's bullshit.

For hunter gatherers, nearly every waking moment was dedicated to survival.

[Runcible Spoon]

60. Lol. That stereotype has been disproven for decades.

Such stereotypes of hunter-gatherers often went hand in hand with defense of capitalism and Western ethnocentrism. Please educate yourself; Marshall Sahlins was the first influential anthropologist to address this and this was in 1968.
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/affluent.html

[arcadian]

65. Wow That's one guy.

Talk about stereotypes, the guy basically followed the road map that all cultural anthropologists followed after World War II.

Step One: Go To the Pacific and find an indigenous culture to live with and study.

Step Two: Wear their tribal garb and become accepted into their society. Take lots of pictures of yourself in their accoutrement.

Step Three: Come out with a paper/book that flies in the face of convention and lauded as a revolutionary in the field.

The guy is a quack.

[Runcible Spoon]

67. Wow.

Sahlins is one example; would you like for me to give you a page with hundreds of sources so you can read them for a few years and get back to me? :crazy: I mentioned him because he was instrumental in shattering those stereotypes.

And what you are mocking here is really more the stereotypical caricature of Franz Boas than anything else. Regardless of what you think of him, his work revolutionized the way the Western world thinks about "savages". Would you prefer for them all to be considered mindless animals? A lower evolutionary form? Because that was the prevailing ideology at the time.

I think your ignorance and misunderstanding of both the history of anthropology as well as evolution and culture itself is saddening. How embarrassing for you.

[arcadian]

68. This coming from the poster known as 'Farce of Nature'

How can anybody take anything you say as being serious? Quite frankly, I assumed it was all a farce. Must be why you changed your username.

:rofl:

[Runcible Spoon]

70. I think you need nap time.

Is that all you can do, make shallow digs on my username? Pathetic.

[arcadian]

72. How far back is your buddy going in that time line anyway?

You seem to be talking about the recent past. I'm talking about tens of thousands of years in the past. And if the guy you cited came out with those results from studying in the Pacific then he is indeed a quack.

For there is another myth, that of the South Pacific paradise. It took a lot of very hard work to inhabit those islands. It wasn't all beach combing and making babies. If you think that then you have an extremely naive perception of reality.

[Runcible Spoon]

78. Using contemporary hunter-gatherer cultures as an analogy for prehistoric populations

is common. Yes, it is highly problematic but it is certainly valid for questions of subsistence activity and therefore projected leisure time. If food gathering technologies are fairly unchanged and food sources are fairly similar, then yes somebody living in a nomadic band even today is going to use a similar caloric output to gather foodstuffs as compared to their prehistoric ancestors. You can also look at instances of chronic osteological stress which would suggest a hard life; agricultural peoples overwhelmingly show more wear and tear on their bones than hunter gatherers.

I'm not saying life was all parties for prehistoric/preagricultural people. Of course people worked hard for their food, but that doesn't mean there were not opportunities for recreation. "Fun" is actually a necessary component to human well-being and some have even argued that it has many evolutionary benefits as well: preparing for actual warfare, sharpening cognition and physical condition, etc.

What I and the other poster took issue with was the stereotype of nonindustrial peoples as living some grim, brutal existence with no fun and no leisure time. Many anthropologists and archaeologists have shown that this is just not the case.

As for South Pacific Islanders, those peoples surely work hard but the variety and degree of recreation and games in their cultures is vibrant and rich. They are master story tellers and maintain very complex and sophisticated rituals and traditions. They take "play" very seriously and Trobriand Islanders, for example, set aside a whole month for recreation and celebration of the yam harvest.

[arcadian]

85. I'm not denying that recent people engaged in sport and games.

That wasn't my argument at all. I have seen evidence of that myself in Hawaii with konane boards etched in volcanic rock. However, my argument is that before humans came together in societies, ie. hunter-gatherers they certainly had very little time for leisure activities. Again, not saying that they had zero time but most of their time was engaged in survival. Don't believe me? Try going out and living off the land and see how mush time you have for leisure activities. Plus the fact that most things we would characterize as leisure activities were in fact rituals.

Sorry for the dig at your old username, it was just too good to pass up. :hi:

[Runcible Spoon]

90. You are making erroneous distinctions between ritual and leisure

Leisure by its very definition is time spent out of work voluntarily doing activities for the mere sake of doing them. Cave painting is a leisure activity. ANOTHER of my pet peeves is the incorrect assumption that leisure serves no real purpose and is empty time; there are many excellent works that emphasize how vital play is for humans.

Was all ritual leisure or vice versa? I'm sure it wasn't; one person's leisure is another person's compulsory activity. Rites of passage celebrations are lots of fun for the people who show up for the feast and exhibitions, but probably suck for the person who has to have his foreskin pierced as part of his journey to manhood.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bvar22]

137. Logical Fallacy.

No soup for you.
NEXT!

[arcadian]

184. You see... you are hilarious...

What you did there... that is hilarious. You took a popular cultural reference and you used it out of context. As your argument. That is fresh. Brilliant really...


:rofl:

[Hugabear]

165. Please provide YOUR qualifications on this matter

If you're going to dismiss serious sociological work out of hand, then I'm sure that you must have some impressive credentials yourself. What is your level of background in this matter? How many articles have you written about prehistoric man? How much research have you personally conducted - and I don't mean simply rehashing what others have written.

[arcadian]

183. You are fucking kidding right?

Your asking for credentials... on the internet? Do you take yourself seriously? Please step away from the keyboard.

[Hugabear]

186. Considering that you seem to know more than experts in the field, it's fair to ask.

If you're going to dismiss out of hand work that has been published in well respected, peer-reviewed, scientific journals; if you're going to mock the work of people who have put years of research into this; then I'm sure that you must have at least some firsthand knowledge.

Otherwise, you'd just be talking out of your ass.

[arcadian]

188. The internet is life or death for you, isn't it?

Why do you even give a fuck? Again I ask, are you joking? You surely don't take yourself seriously.

[Hugabear]

191. I take that as an admission that you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

You've demonstrated repeatedly throughout this thread that when you are backed into a corner, that you will simply lash out at anyone who dares question you. You mock everyone else, dismiss years of research, and then use the anonymity of the internet as your only "defense".

No, the internet isn't "life or death" for me, but I will call out BS when I see it. And obviously YOU give a fuck, otherwise you wouldn't be responding to just about every single poster calling you out.

[bvar22]

193. !

Couldn't have said it better.
:toast:

[arcadian]

194. Okay, what exactly am I being called out for?

Einstein.

[byeya]

92. Hunter/gatherers

According to the late Prof. Harris, father of cultural materialist anthropolgy, unless such a society, tribe really, was up against an ecological constraint, they had much more leisure time than we have. The people of the Kalahari in the 20th century were well documented to enjoy enough leisure time to make a Northern European jealous.

[Runcible Spoon]

99. Yes Harris was also extremely influential, Cannibals and Kings is still cited today

I blanch at cultural materialism a bit, but he was a brilliant man and certainly a revolutionary thinker for his time. And yes, you're absolutely correct that he also broke the myth that nonindustrial peoples lived grim, leisureless existences.

[byeya]

114. Thanks for your post. I've read Harris's books,

popular and academic, and he's convinced me he's turned his school of anthropolgy into a predictive science. I just read books, so it's not for me to say he was correct or incorrect, but, as you point out, at least some of his field work was corrective and groundbreaking.

[tabatha]

175. Yes, and when the Whites arrived they criticized the indigeneous people for being lazy.

I remember one person saying that the indigenous people sat outside their huts and moved all the way around during the day following the sunshine.

[Ignis]

61. The bulk of anthrophological research over the last 50 years...

disagrees with your hypothesis.

Even the few remaining hunter-gatherer groups in the modern world--with limited migratory patterns constrained by state borders, diminishing resources, and increasing nearby agricultural/pastoral settlements--have large amounts of free time.

[Runcible Spoon]

63. Yes absolutely.

When we started intensively farming grain and ramping up population size, we started becoming slaves to subsistence :evilfrown:

[arcadian]

66. Come to think of it, you're right.

I seem to recall a cave painting at Lascaux that depicts early Cro-Magnon attending a cocktail party.

:rofl:

Yeah, life in the woods is comfy from behind your keyboard and your reclining office chair.

:rofl:

[Runcible Spoon]

69. Hmm, my studies have shown that your direct ancestors painted the famous Lascaux Straw Man

Would you like to attempt to actually back up your idiotic ramblings with some actual research or would you prefer to just humiliate yourself a tad more?

[arcadian]

73. Now you are going for the personal attacks.

That's some argument. :eyes:

[Runcible Spoon]

81. Please refer to post #68 and have your Irony Detector tuned.

:crazy:

[nxylas]

80. So you argue that primitive man had no time for cultural activities...

...while simultaneously making a joke about cave paintings. Anyone else see a slight contradiction here?

[Runcible Spoon]

83. Someone didn't evolve out of his pronounced supraorbital torus, that's for sure.

:evilgrin: There's some anthropology humor for ya!

[Ignis]

84. Why are you confusing free time with comfort?

Frankly, your arguments are all over the place in this thread. :shrug:

If you can find a contemporary anthropological paper from a peer-reviewed journal (or even primary evidence) that supports your claims, I'm sure most of us would be willing to listen. But when you make claims that are contrary to the last 50 years of anthropological research without any support...well...forgive me for being just a teensy bit skeptical.

[arcadian]

97. "I'm sure most of us would be willing to listen"

Another, "I speak for DU" poster. "eyes:

My assertion: sports have only been around for a very short in the time span of human development. Care to show me where I've deviated from that point? Modern humans have been around for 200,000 years, why don't you show me archaeological evidence that humans 200,000 years ago engaged in sporting competition.

[Ignis]

105. So you withdraw your claim that hunter-gatherers

have significantly less free time than those of us working in modern, post-agrarian, post-industrial societies?

I'm not all that concerned with your sports hypothesis, I just hate to see someone spread misinformation that flies in the face of the last 50 years of research.

You can choose to be offended, outraged, roll your eyes, etc., or you can concern yourself with the facts. Most anthropologists prefer to work with empirical data and hard research, rather than your brand of "from the gut" science.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NeedleCast]

110. There is little if any evidence of ANYTHING

from 200,000 years ago. Your argument that "modern" humans have been around for 200,000 years is disingenuous at best. In Human History Timelines the "first anatomically human" beings were thought to have originated 200,000 years ago, but this is an era that pre-dated even the very beginnings of rudimentary language. 200,000 years ago there probably wasn't sport, because humans communicated via grunts and poking each other with sticks.

Clothing wasn't "invented" until about 125,000 years ago.

200,000 years ago refers to a period 170,000 years before the end of Neanderthal "civilization" (and I use that term loosely).

You are using the term "Modern" human incorrectly. When you say "modern" human and reference humans as they existed 200,000 years ago, you are talking about humans who were "modern" only in the evidence that these are the oldest examples of fossilized bones that resembled "modern" humans.


Even then, your argument is impossible to prove, as there is very little if any "human" record - even fossils - dating to time periods more than a few ten-thousand years ago. The history of agriculture ranges only back about 10,000 years.

Still, the pre-historic evidence we have shows that as far back as we've managed to find records of, humans have engaged in sports and other leisure and ritual activities.

[Leftist Agitator]

124. See, you took the right path, showed why he is disingenuous and wrong...

And you did it all without being insulting.

I prefer to be slightly less diplomatic, and say that he's a blowhard who doesn't know what he's talking about, but is driven by his ego so much that he is constitutionally unable to admit his error to himself or to others.

Kind of like Bush, come to think of it.

[arcadian]

185. Less diplomatic?

Like telling me to go kill myself? Telling me that my family and friends would probably appreciate me kiling myself as they all despise me any way?

Yeah, you're a real peach, darling.

[tabatha]

176. So sports = leisure time.

What a crock.

You need to hit the books.

[Hannah Bell]

75. tribal people have sporting competitions. leisure has been around as long as there were people.

supposedly we have less of it than tribal people living in non-extreme climates.

[arcadian]

101. leisure has been around as long as there were people

Documentation?

[Hannah Bell]

170. tribal people at contact lived essentially like prehistoric people would have.

Leisure & games are well-documented for nearly all tribal people at contact.

e.g.:

"Leisure was very important to the Bushmen. They spent large amounts of time with conversation, music, and sacred dances."

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/rari/bushman.php

PDF] War minus the shooting: Sport and democracy in classical AthensFile Format: Bushmen and Copper Eskimos.

His results are decisive: of the ten ‘warlike’ societies nine have ‘combative sports’, whereas eight of the ten ‘non-warlike’ ...

espace.library.uq.edu.au/eserv

Games figured prominently in the myths of North American Indian tribes, and also in their ceremonies for bringing rain and fertility and combating misfortune. In his classic study, originally published in 1907 as a report of the Bureau of American Ethnology, Stewart Culin divided the games played by Indian men and women into two general types.

Volume 1 of this Bison Books edition takes up games of chance, involving guessing and throwing dice. Culin was able to show that the games of North American tribes were remarkably similar in method and purpose...

Volume 2 is just as absorbing in its elaboration of skills like archery and games like snow-snake, in which darts or javelins were hurled over snow or ice. Played throughout the continent north of Mexico were the hoop and pole game and its miniature, solitaire form called ring and pin, here illustrated. With equal authority Culin discusses ball games: racket, shinny, football, and hot ball. He includes accounts of "minor amusements": shuttlecock, tipcat, quoits, popgun, bean shooter, and cat's cradle.

Originally published in 1907, Stewart

http://books.google.com/books?id=zYI6_uJ66jIC&dq=indians+footraces&source=gbs_summary_s&cad=0




medieval europeans had more holidays than we do, & sports & games are well documented.

it was empires & the industrial revolution that reduced the free time of (one segment) of societies, to make them work more to support the extra leisure of another, to feed armies, etc.

[NeedleCast]

91. Ridiculously wrong

Olypmpics have been around since before the Roman empire reached it's height 2000 years ago and there is plenty of evidence that showed societies using games, sports and tests of skill long before that.

[arcadian]

94. Modern humans have been around 200,000 years.

You want to tell me they engaged in ritual games that long? They didn't.

[NeedleCast]

102. Yes, they did

Your continued denail despite any proof is, frankly, insane.

Here are a few snips from Wiki and other sources:

Prehistoric cave art discovered in France, Africa, and Australia, carbon dated up to 30,000 years ago, provides evidence of ritual archery. The art's very existence demonstrates interest in skills unrelated to the functional tasks of staying alive, and evidence of leisure time being available. It depicts other non-functional and apparently ritual activities as well. Therefore, although there is scant direct evidence of sport from these sources, it is reasonable to extrapolate that there was some activity at these times resembling sport.


The ancient Mayan and Aztec civilizations played organized, ritualized ballgames. Some of the courts used at that time are still standing today. It is reasonable to assume from these and other historical sources that sport has origins that lie in the global beginnings of humankind itself.


Patolli, similar to modern day backgammon or Parcheesi, was played on a marked board or bark with beans for counters. Patolli is a Nahuatl word; the Spanish translation is patole. The board for the game is set up in an "X," and the first person to travel around the board and safely return home would be the winner.


Games the Aztecs played:
Totoloque was a gambling game using pellets made of gold. Players tossed the gold pellets some distance towards gold slabs. In five strokes or tries, they gained or lost pieces of gold or jewels that they bet.
Bibliography
von Hagen, Victor Wolfgang
<1958> 1961 The Aztec: Man and Tribe. New York: The New American Library, Inc.


History of Sport Encylopeida Volume II
Stone-age drawings were discovered in the Libyan desert depicting among other activities, swimming and archery.<1> The art itself is an example of interest in skills unrelated to the functional tasks of staying alive, and is itself evidence of there being leisure time availabl ...


From the Anthology of Sport
...Also, contray to earlier notions, anthropologists are now generally agreed that people in small-scale hunting societies have traditionally had ample time for leisurly pursuits. For Paleolithic man, ,leisure was likely the expected norm, and free time at a surplus.


In fact, you should read chapter four of the Anthology of Sport. One of the things that is pointed out (on page 98) is that it is unlikely that we would even understand "sports" finds as they relate to paleolithic man. If some society hundreds of generations from now dug up a football do you think they would be able to associate it with sports? Probably not.

Or: check out this PowerPoint presentation from CalState: instructional1.calstatela.edu/dfrankl/CURR/kin375/PPT/Ancient_Civilizations.ppt

From: Sports in Pre-history and ancient civilization
In prehistory, when there were a small and tribal human societies forms in vast plain lands (the origin of big civilizations as Hegel said), which will be latterly the big ancient civilization seeds, or in remote islands, there were strong relations between the sport squares and the main temples!

As another strongest relation between sport itself with the art world from painting on caves rocks to the holy and public variable ritual dancing with the odor of old incense!

And that absolutely means that sport was a holy action like worship and art itself, and there was no difference between a brave and strong sportsman who swam in a streaming river, and the priest who gave him the gods and goddesses blesses, or the painter who drew and painted this sportsman heroism on the cave rocks to be an immortal holy hero!

Swimming, ball and beads games, running, archery, hunting and wrestling were all an excellent examples of prehistory time sports, and there are a lot of evidences and painting on caves in many places, such as the Libyan dessert which confirm the fact that swimming is one of the oldest sports in humankind history!! *



Even in the Far East:
There are artifacts and structures which suggest that ChineseThis article is on the geographic and cultural entity. For other meanings, see China (disambiguation). China ( Traditional Chinese: , Simplified Chinese: , Hanyu Pinyin: Zhongguo, Wade-Giles: Chung-kuo) is a country in continental East Asia with some oute people engaged in activities which meet our definition of sport as early as 4000 years BCE. The origin and development of China's sports activities seem to have been closely related to the production, work, war and entertainment of the time.




I could go on in this vain for a long time, but I imagine you'll just go on telling yourself that you're argument is valid.

[arcadian]

104. Well, that just proves my point.

Cave art obviously indicates that they had enough time to paint caves and probably engage in ritual games. Yes. If you actually read what I posted I said,

"In fact they have only been around as long as humans have been able to use their time for nonessential, non survival, purposes which hasn't been that long."

And humans painting cave art is not that long ago on the human evolutionary scale.

[NeedleCast]

115. Only because your point continues to shift

You like to move the goal posts, but that's okay. Your initial argument in this sub thread was:

Sporting events have only been around a very short time.

and in terms of history, this is simply not true. Later, you shifted your argument that sporting events have only been around a short time IN REFERENCE TO A TIMELINE BEGUN 200,000 YEARS AGO.

I'll grant you that there is no evidence that neanderthal man spent any time playing sports but then again, we don't have any evidence to the contrary either as there is almost no evidence that has survived 200,000 years. Even fossile records for this period are exceedingly rare.

I - and I think most other people - would argue that there are tens thousand years of evidence of sports and games being part of human history and that tens of thousands of years does, indeed, equal a very long time.

By your representation, life on earth has been around "only a very short time" in terms of our 4.5 billion year old planet.

You've change the original scale of your argument. Not very sporting...haha!

[arcadian]

119. That is bullshit.

It's posters coming into this dogpile who have decided not to read my previous posts who are moving the goal posts. Ahhh the GD dogpile, me thinks you only entered in this discussion to get your lickins' in.

[Leftist Agitator]

109. Humans were created by God around 6,000 years ago.

I don't know where you're getting this nonsense about 200,000 years, but it's incorrect.

[Two Americas]

121. LOL

Well that should settle any controversy about this once and for all. Thanks!

[Leftist Agitator]

n/t

[Leftist Agitator]

123. No problem.

I figured that that relying on the Bible made for as cogent of an argument as the nattering of an idiot, repeatedly insisting that early man didn't engage in activities that could be considered sport because there's no extant archaeological evidence from tens of thousands of years ago to that end.

It makes one wonder how our progenitors managed to perpetuate the species, what with having to spend every waking moment looking for food, eating, or pooping.

[arcadian]

189. Blind, uninformed speculation on your part.

You have nothing.

[CubicleGuy]

100. Surely you've heard the term "bread and circuses"

And don't call me Shirley.

[arcadian]

103. Roman games were extremely recent.

Shirley...

[shadowknows69]

93. Love your optimism but in fact....

Humans are big, dumb, greedy, generally self-destructive idiots. I'm not sure I'd bet on us.

[Marrah_G]

155. I'll bet on us for you my brother :)

Things may change, but they will not end.

[county worker]

117. Provided people believe they can be alright

I read so much gloom and doom on the site that I feel for the majority here life will be a hell of their own making. They are just sitting around waiting for it to happen.

Some of us have a different vision and will make it come true.


We make our own worlds and we live in them.

[kimmerspixelated]

128. Whew!

Thanks... I was beginning to think I was at a funeral... I agree with you...a change, but much better in the long run!

[blossomstar]

146. Thank you, it was getting heavy in here.

[fjc]

10. Sounds alot like chicken little to me.

[NNN0LHI]

12. Chris Hedges is a Nader fanatic

Which should tell us everything we need to know about this rocket scientist.

Don

[nichomachus]

35. Very incisive and detailed refutation of the argument n/t

[rvablue]

38. Thank you for pointing that out ... makes my blood pressure go down a little! n/t

[Two Americas]

122. oh, well there ya go

That cinches it for me. Any pretext for ignoring and discrediting and excluding any and all voices that make us feel the slightest bit uncomfortable - unless it is right wing and bigoted voices, whom we are welcoming into our big tent - is good and helps us to advance the "progressive" agenda. You betcha. Count me in. Guilt by association, character assassination, ad hominem attacks - whatever it takes to purge the heretics and restrict debate.

[slipslidingaway]

11. Very true...

"...Corporations determine who gets heard and who does not, he said. And those who critique corporate power are given no place in the national dialogue..."

[treestar]

13. It will be OK

Geez, I am sick of these downers.

It may end up different, but OK.

We don't need to be a superpower any more than say Ireland does. Other countries have managed to live without dominating the world.

[Two Americas]

127. for whom?

It is already very much not OK for millions of people.

We do not suffer from too much alarmism, but rather from too much denial and complacency.

[my2sense]

160. Totally agree

What will happen when those that have been laid off run out of money and resources? We are in a shit storm of epic proportions and the sooner we accept it - the sooner we can adapt and try to salvage what we can.

I've been sounding the alarm about the economy for months to family and friends and it falls upon deaf ears because it's too uncomfortable to deal with the reality that we have allowed TPTB to run this country into the ground right before our eyes.

[kimmerspixelated]

130. I agree!

[lunatica]

14. Eye-opener

With the abdication of the media we have essentially lost our voice. That's the tragedy because if we had it our protests would have been covered instead of ignored or suppressed. From the article this paragraph is what we have actually experienced in the last 8 years, so we know it's true. But we're going through a paradigm shift of awareness and that makes things a little different, although it's scary.


“The puzzle to me is the lack of social unrest,” Wolin said when I asked why we have not yet seen rioting or protests. He said he worried that popular protests will be dismissed and ignored by the corporate media. This, he said, is what happened when tens of thousands protested the war in Iraq. This will permit the state to ruthlessly suppress local protests, as happened during the Democratic and Republic conventions. Anti-war protests in the 1960s gained momentum from their ability to spread across the country, he noted. This, he said, may not happen this time. “The ways they can isolate protests and prevent it from a contagion are formidable,” he said.

[Odin2005]

15. "Nothing we can do to stop it" HORSESHIT!!!

I will have nothing do do with such defeatist garbage, especially from an idiot who trots out Nader and that luddite fool McKibben. We stand on the brink of a technological golden age if we weather the next few years successfully. The nay-sayers and cynics who say "no we can't" can go fuck themselves, because YES WE CAN!!!

[NNN0LHI]

16. The Nader nuts are invested in proving Nader's theory that things have to get worse to get better

If things don't get worse their whole scam doesn't work.

They are delusional.

Don

[hfojvt]

71. and of course they take no responsibility

for helping to make things get worse.

[TBF]

20. It's going to take more than shiny slogans and a kick-ass marketing campaign. Do you have

any substance to add?

[terisan]

17. Get a Grip, Hedges and do something useful-like go out and pickup trash nt

There is nothing here that can't be solved once people stop waiting for saviors and start being honest about what needs to be done---like ridding ourselves of the corporate leeches and placing fear in the hearts of their political enablers on both the left and right.

[pauldp]

145. So how do we place fear in the hearts of the political enablers? nt

[slipslidingaway]

18. Related video here from Naomi Wolf on protests...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=267287&mesg_id=267287


Direct link, about 9 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoYahriXBGo


"...“The puzzle to me is the lack of social unrest,” Wolin said when I asked why we have not yet seen rioting or protests. He said he worried that popular protests will be dismissed and ignored by the corporate media. This, he said, is what happened when tens of thousands protested the war in Iraq. This will permit the state to ruthlessly suppress local protests, as happened during the Democratic and Republic conventions. Anti-war protests in the 1960s gained momentum from their ability to spread across the country, he noted. This, he said, may not happen this time. “The ways they can isolate protests and prevent it from a contagion are formidable,” he said..."

[Wiley50]

25. I'd love to but the audio doesn't work. Weird n/t

`I'd love to but the audio doesn't work

[slipslidingaway]

29. Here is a Fora TV link that may or may not work...

5 minute clip

http://fora.tv/2009/01/16/Naomi_Wolf_Bureaucracy_Systematically_Neutered_Dissent


The entire talk at the Hudson Union Society on 1/16/09, about one hour.

http://fora.tv/2009/01/16/Naomi_Wolf_at_the_Hudson_Union_Society

[Wiley50]

31. not with Firefox but got it to play in IE. go figure

I never had trouble in firefox before. Don't know what is wrong

[slipslidingaway]

32. "Don't know what is wrong"

Sorry to say I could not offer any clues, but glad you were able to figure it out.

:)

[kentuck]

19. I guess that is our worst fear...

It's not going to be ok...

[NJCher]

24. not OK

If you need McMansions and SUVs.

If you need gardens, pets, family, and stretching a buck until it screams, it's going to be OK.

Oh and might I add--flexibility. If you have flexibility, you'll be OK.



Cher

[NeedleCast]

95. Why is it that these articles (and responses like this)q

Always act as if there is no area between owning a McMansion and a stack of SUVs vs sustenance level farming and scraping out a barely tolerable living?

[grace0418]

172. I know, right? I've never needed or wanted a McMansion or an SUV. My husband and I have

always lived within our means and have never wanted all the hassle that comes with owning that much essentially useless stuff. We don't have any debt except for our mortgage (which we can pay on one salary), and if we have to tighten our belts further we can. I think a lot of Americans are indeed in for a rude awakening, but many Americans will weather the storm just fine.

[northernlights]

21. Nader warned us?

As I recall, Nader's continual claim every 4 years is it doesn't matter which candidate wins.

Seriously, can anybody with half a brain think it didn't matter the * stole 2000?

That we'd be in the shape we're in today if Gore, having won the election, had been inaugurated on 1/20/01?

[uberllama42]

106. That's right, you got it

The only thing Nader ever talks about is that there is no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. That's his whole shtick. He's never provided any kind of analysis about our corporate economy or its implications for our future. :eyes:

In fact, we probably would be in the same boat economically if Gore had been elected. He wouldn't have done Iraq, and Katrina would have been different, but think about the role the executive branch has played in the financial meltdown. The reason this recession is so severe is because the financial industry was deregulated under the Clinton administration. Was Al Gore screaming about deregulation being a bad idea at the time?

Clinton and Gore were almost as pro-corporate as Bush and Co. Unless he had a major change on heart during the early years of his administration, I can't seem him doing anything meaningful to stop this meltdown. It took many years of negligence to get us where we are, and we can't pretend the Clinton administration wasn't part of the problem.

[RoyGBiv]

22. Merciful heavens ...

At no period in American history has our democracy been in such peril or has the possibility of totalitarianism been as real.

I gather Chris's sense of history goes back about three days.

It's really unfortunate that Mr. Hedges chose hyperbole over rationality because there's a point to be made here. Sadly the point that will be made and has the potential to become a self-fulfilling prophecy is that all is hopeless, and all we really should be doing is running around screaming.

[Terran]

28. Agreed...this piece is absurdly over the top

"Poverty and despair...like a plague". I really get the sense that he *wants* this to happen.

I agree that big changes are due in the way we organize our economy and our resources, but puhlease, our economy is nowhere near "collapse".

[donco6]

47. No kidding.

I label this one TBU - True but useless.

[NeedleCast]

23. The Shame in This

is that when Chris Hedges dreams of an apocalyptical end to the country don't come true, he'll forget he ever wrote this piece and move on to the next bit of tripe.

[azmouse]

27. Why not just end it all right now if that's what he thinks?

I prefer to believe that human beings will pull out of the current problems.
It's been bad before, and we have survived. We'll survive this time too.
We will have a different way of life but how is that any different from the past.
Change is the only constant.

[Marrah_G]

34. Spot on.

[Sheets of Easter]

36. Bingo. I am sick and freaking tired of defeatism masked as "realism."

[arcadian]

39. You "prefer to believe" that human beings will pull out of the current problems

Some people want to believe in UFOs too. Sorry, on the US "prevailing" in this formidable challenge, the math simply isn't there. Natural resources and slave labor simply won't continue to fuel the American Dream and the staus quo because you believe in them.

[azmouse]

42. I said that changes will have to be made.

The way we Americans have been living isn't sustainable but that doesn't mean that we will descend into anarchy as the alternative.

[readmoreoften]

112. Why would he "end it all?" He doesn't give a damn about the continuance of American Empire.

[Two Americas]

125. because it is not all about our individual personal emotions

There is a difference between being negative, and observing and describing the conditions we are facing.

There is a difference between being positive, and denying and avoiding the truth for the sake of personally feeling good.

If you think that "ending it all" - and I object to the cavalier use of the very serious subject of suicide to make your point - or any other personal emotional states or feelings or personal choices or preferences are what politics is about, I would suggest that you do not understand what politics even is.

Often anger, sadness, depression and fear are sane responses to threatening conditions in objective external reality. Your need to feel good internally should not be used as an excuse to tell others to ignore objective reality.

[azmouse]

131. I do understand bullshit when I hear it.

blah, blah, blah...

[leftchick]

30. Inverted Totalitarianism By Sheldon Wolin

wow, I can't believe I missed his work before.....


This article appeared in the May 19, 2003 edition of The Nation.
May 1, 2003
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030519/wolin/print


The increasing power of the state and the declining power of institutions intended to control it has been in the making for some time. The party system is a notorious example. The Republicans have emerged as a unique phenomenon in American history of a fervently doctrinal party, zealous, ruthless, antidemocratic and boasting a near majority. As Republicans have become more ideologically intolerant, the Democrats have shrugged off the liberal label and their critical reform-minded constituencies to embrace centrism and footnote the end of ideology. In ceasing to be a genuine opposition party the Democrats have smoothed the road to power of a party more than eager to use it to promote empire abroad and corporate power at home. Bear in mind that a ruthless, ideologically driven party with a mass base was a crucial element in all of the twentieth-century regimes seeking total power.

Representative institutions no longer represent voters. Instead, they have been short-circuited, steadily corrupted by an institutionalized system of bribery that renders them responsive to powerful interest groups whose constituencies are the major corporations and wealthiest Americans. The courts, in turn, when they are not increasingly handmaidens of corporate power, are consistently deferential to the claims of national security. Elections have become heavily subsidized non-events that typically attract at best merely half of an electorate whose information about foreign and domestic politics is filtered through corporate-dominated media. Citizens are manipulated into a nervous state by the media's reports of rampant crime and terrorist networks, by thinly veiled threats of the Attorney General and by their own fears about unemployment. What is crucially important here is not only the expansion of governmental power but the inevitable discrediting of constitutional limitations and institutional processes that discourages the citizenry and leaves them politically apathetic.

No doubt these remarks will be dismissed by some as alarmist, but I want to go further and name the emergent political system "inverted totalitarianism." By inverted I mean that while the current system and its operatives share with Nazism the aspiration toward unlimited power and aggressive expansionism, their methods and actions seem upside down. For example, in Weimar Germany, before the Nazis took power, the "streets" were dominated by totalitarian-oriented gangs of toughs, and whatever there was of democracy was confined to the government. In the United States, however, it is the streets where democracy is most alive--while the real danger lies with an increasingly unbridled government.

Or another example of the inversion: Under Nazi rule there was never any doubt about "big business" being subordinated to the political regime. In the United States, however, it has been apparent for decades that corporate power has become so predominant in the political establishment, particularly in the Republican Party, and so dominant in its influence over policy, as to suggest a role inversion the exact opposite of the Nazis'. At the same time, it is corporate power, as the representative of the dynamic of capitalism and of the ever-expanding power made available by the integration of science and technology with the structure of capitalism, that produces the totalizing drive that, under the Nazis, was supplied by ideological notions such as Lebensraum.

In rebuttal it will be said that there is no domestic equivalent to the Nazi regime of torture, concentration camps or other instruments of terror. But we should remember that for the most part, Nazi terror was not applied to the population generally; rather, the aim was to promote a certain type of shadowy fear--rumors of torture--that would aid in managing and manipulating the populace. Stated positively, the Nazis wanted a mobilized society eager to support endless warfare, expansion and sacrifice for the nation.

[leftstreet]

133. "the aim was to promote a certain type of shadowy fear"

That article is a must-read!

Thanks for posting.

[eilen]

182. The shadowy fear is true

when my mother was a little girl in Germany, it was common to tell children if they did not behave they would have to be sent to the camps. She was very well behaved, she can remember crying and sobbing when she got into some trouble believing they were going to send her there.

"Not behaving" for a well brought up young German girl in the mid 1940's might mean that she did not wait for a pause in the adult's conversation to ask if she could be excused to use the bathroom, or picking up a fallen apple just under the fence along the road (they were practically starving) and the farmer catching you.

[Blue_Tires]

40. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

chilling stuff, but it's on point

[mdmc]

43. Dont "R" this article - it gives props to Nader!

Oh no!

[Maru Kitteh]

46. We never seem to riot in this country when we should. It would be good for our elected officials to

feel some real fear for once.

[chrisa]

53. Nothing tells politicians to stick it like...

Beating innocent women and children up in the streets in lynch mobs, and burning people's businesses.

They don't care about inner cities anyway. It just entertains them.

[chrisa]

52. There's not going to be...

A civil war. When the sky starts falling, I'll start worrying.

People say this every decade.

[malaise]

54. Ding ding

100% correct

[Richardo]

57. Gloom, depair and agony...

...on me.
Deep dark depression excessive misery.
If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all.
Gloom, despair and agony on me.

[morillon]

129. LOL!

That was exactly my reaction. I mean, yeah, things are bad. Things are going to get worse. But sometimes I wonder if the most extreme of the doomsayers would actually be HAPPY if things turned out as awful as they're predicting. There's some grim consolation in being right.

I definitely think we have to prepare for tough times, but if every one of us believed what this guy said 100%, we'd actually PRODUCE a crisis more quickly and in a much more catastrophic fashion than I personally think is likely to happen otherwise.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

62. and this helps us move forward how?

it's a funny thing, but when I'm looking into a pit of hissing vipers at my feet, I just can't seem to see anything else.

It's not always easy, but I am determined to look up--that's where you find the light, see solutions-- which is the direction I want to move in.

[hologram]

64. "demagogues and charlatans"

"who rise up out of the slime in moments of crisis to offer fantastic visions."

Paging Ronald Reagan...

[MilesColtrane]

76. "All we have to fear is....Chris Hedges, himself."

This country has faced far worse crises than this and emerged stronger as a result.

Heed the man:

"Our workers are no less productive than when this crisis began. Our minds are no less inventive, our goods and services no less needed than they were last week or last month or last year."

[Ardent15]

108. Exactly..

Don't lose hope. This is America goddamnit.

[renate]

116. welcome to DU! and yep...

... things are pretty damn dreary right now, but the REAL grownups are finally in charge so I have hope--and, as you said, this is America. An America that's been beat up pretty badly, but as Obama said, we'll get up and dust ourselves off.

[high density]

77. What a load of shit

The extreme right is gaining momentum? This guy is just as delusional as the Republicans who think more tax cuts are the salvation.

[alfredo]

82. He missed his nap

[Kolesar]

87. I wish I could "unrecommend" a thread ... eom

[valerief]

98. self-delete. too whiny.

[Juan_de_la_Dem]

107. Some good points but Ralph Nader?? It goes off the deep end on page 2

[whistle]

118. This whole crisis happened in secret because it was a giant swindle

...based on fraud, deception, larceny, collusion and lies. The guilty must be made to pay

[mcg]

126. What do Ralph Nader and Rush Limbaugh have in common?

They both want Obama to fail.

[slipslidingaway]

132. We've Only Just Begun?

February 2009
http://www.contraryinvestor.com/mo.htm


"We’ve Only Just Begun?…Yeah, that’s pretty much how we see it at this point. We’re referring to the process that is macro or systemic deleveraging. It was way back in April of 2007 that we penned a discussion entitled, “It’s Delightful, It’s Delovely, It’s Deleverage”. At that time very few folks were talking about deleveraging as a concept and economic force to come. Fast forward to the present and it’s now consensus thinking. Although the theme has been very much popularized in the mainstream press, we see very little attention to specific detail. So, in that spirit, this discussion is all about a check in on the concept and detail as to where we now stand. Nothing like the facts to illuminate the true picture, no?

To the point, deleveraging is not an event, but a process. As we've explained in the past, the multi-decade credit cycle phenomenon was key to economic and financial market outcomes in the US, as well as globally for close to three decades. The whole concept of deleveraging dramatically interrupts, or really derails that cycle. Coincidentally, the Fed/Treasury/Administration are in do or die reflation mode at present. Reflation really meaning an attempt to restart what is a critically wounded credit cycle. Mortally wounded? We’re going to find out. In this light, monitoring the process that is deleveraging becomes very meaningful in terms of trying to interpret just what the financial markets are pricing in at any point in time. We believe it's also helpful in terms of trying to monitor the economic slowdown magnitude and duration issues so key to near term investment outcomes...


...In summation, debt growth throughout the broad US economy, exclusive of the asset backed securities markets (that is in clear deleveraging mode) and the Federal government (that is in clear leverage acceleration mode), has only slowed, but not gone into net contraction. As per the nearer term directional trends seen in the charts above, it appears households and the non-financial corporate sector are either in or will enter the process of net leverage contraction (deleveraging) very soon. Consumption, production and price deflation trends in a number of asset classes (primarily residential real estate and equities) has occurred up to this point against a backdrop of only slowing household and corporate debt growth. Just what will happen if/when household and non-financial corporate leverage begins to actually contract in nominal terms? THAT’s the key question for us as investors over the quarters directly ahead. The markets have priced in sector implosion (financial sector) and the potential for a recession of a mid-1970’s/early 1980’s magnitude. But, the broad deleveraging process has really just begun. We have a very hard time seeing this process truncated in the quarters ahead. The potential clearly exists for a multi-year reconciliation process. Have the markets already priced in a multi-year deleveraging process, with specific emphasis and implications as per consumers? That we do not believe has happened, except maybe in the Treasury market. You already know we will be monitoring and discussing these very issues as we move forward. Deleveraging is not done. As you can see, it has barely begun...

...Hopefully expressed in simple terms, the prior period credit cycle was a massive anomaly. That anomaly raised US nominal GDP, corporate profits and asset values to levels they never would have experienced in the absence of maniacal credit creation. Now that the meaningful deleveraging process we have been ranting and raving about is evidenced all around us and is really still in its infancy, we believe the US economy, corporate profits and asset values are in the process of shifting downward to a “new normal”. THIS is what the current equity bear market is all about. Corporations are adjusting to this new normal by cutting costs as their revenues shift downward. Households are adjusting to this by massively lowering their intake of leverage, and we believe soon to be paying it down. Even Ballmer recognizes the anomaly is over and is acting appropriately as far as Microsoft is concerned. When will this most important of messages and conceptual thinking make it to Washington? Answer: Don’t hold your breath, okay? After all, everything we've seen from the powers that be so far suggests to us they have absolutely no intention of adjusting to a new normal, but rather are doing everything in their power to recreate the old anomaly."

[balantz]

134. He is correct, this is what we face. n/t

[ott]

135. Who keeps recommending this garbage?

Secular rapture indeed.

[fascisthunter]

139. Why is it garbage?

[girl gone mad]

150. You have no counterarguments.

You're in denial.

[NNN0LHI]

153. I suspect its the same people who used to recommend all the Bush is going to bomb Iran threads

Cuckoo, cuckoo.

Polly Wanna Cracker? Squawk!

Don

[GOPBasher]

138. This is alarmist garbage.

I'm an eternal pessimist and even I think this is a load of crap. Anyone who knows what's at the cutting edge of science knows what we're capable of if we can fix this shit that 30 years of right wing ideology has brought upon us.

[byronius]

149. There you go. I agree, And the right man is finally at the helm for science.

I think the real crisis is ideologically replacing the Puritan Work Ethic once robotics and AI really blossom, so that the people replaced don't suffer, like they do now.

Robert Anton Wilson had some great thoughts on this coming crisis.

[GOPBasher]

151. Exactly! We need to make the coming advances in productivity help EVERYONE, not

just the people who currently have the capital.

[fascisthunter]

141. This ought to Be Taken More Seriously

maybe those who benfit from the very corruption we are living through will dismiss this...

[balantz]

142. People are still in denial.

When will people wake up to what's happening? When food gets more expensive and scarce for all but the wealthy, and DHS starts shuttling the starving masses to military bases?

[L0oniX]

144. ...

[sendero]

148. It's too bad..

... that so many people think this is "alarmist" or over the top.

Yes, it might not be as bad as all that, but it just as easily could be.

Any of you folks who are dismissing this who were also dismissing the "severe recession" talk a year ago should now be quiet, you were wrong then and you are probably wrong now.

[Yavin4]

152. The U.S. Just Elected An African American As President of the United States

Positive, hopeful change is always possible in a nation like this.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

154. Great article. The empire is falling and it can't get up. K&R

[defendandprotect]

156. ....agree, and behind that is Global Warming ---

Obama has to NATIONALIZE not bail out corporations ---

We have to junk capitalism and move on to economic democracy/democratic socialism.

Single Payer National Health care we need immediately --

And the DLC crap that's going on -- corporate game-playing with out politicans

has to stop now.

Where are our leaders talking about the HOMELESS -- improverished children of America?

Credit Card reform in the interests of the CONSUMER?

Getting the FED out of the way -- not creating a new toxic bank--!!! GAWD!!!

[NNN0LHI]

158. This goofball was saying an attack on Iran by Bush was imminent in 2006

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chris%20_Hedges/BushNuclearApocalypse_Iran.html

Bush's Nuclear Apocalypse: Iran
by Chris Hedges
ttp://www.truthdig.com/, Oct 9, 2006


Editor's Note: The former Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times and author of the bestseller "War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning" reports on Bush's plan for Iran, and how a callous war, conceived by zealots, will lead to a disaster of biblical proportions.

The aircraft carrier Eisenhower, accompanied by the guided-missile cruiser USS Anzio, guided-missile destroyer USS Ramage, guided-missile destroyer USS Mason and the fast-attack submarine USS Newport News, is, as I write, making its way to the Straits of Hormuz off Iran. The ships will be in place to strike Iran by the end of the month. It may be a bluff. It may be a feint. It may be a simple show of American power. But I doubt it.

War with Iran-a war that would unleash an apocalyptic scenario in the Middle East-is probable by the end of the Bush administration. It could begin in as little as three weeks. This administration, claiming to be anointed by a Christian God to reshape the world, and especially the Middle East, defined three states at the start of its reign as "the Axis of Evil." They were Iraq, now occupied; North Korea, which, because it has nuclear weapons, is untouchable; and Iran. Those who do not take this apocalyptic rhetoric seriously have ignored the twisted pathology of men like Elliott Abrams, who helped orchestrate the disastrous and illegal contra war in Nicaragua, and who now handles the Middle East for the National Security Council. He knew nothing about Central America. He knows nothing about the Middle East. He sees the world through the childish, binary lens of good and evil, us and them, the forces of darkness and the forces of light. And it is this strange, twilight mentality that now grips most of the civilian planners who are barreling us towards a crisis of epic proportions.

[Waiting For Everyman]

159. "They've seen the end coming down long enough to believe that they've heard their last warning"

For Everyman (Jackson Browne, 1973)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfN1zRNwezo


Everybody I talk to is ready to leave
With the light of the morning
They've seen the end coming down
Long enough to believe
That they've heard their last warning
Standing alone
Each has his own ticket in his hand
And as the evening descends
I sit thinking about Everyman

Seems like I've always been
Looking for some other place
To get it together
Where with a few of my friends
I could give up the race
And maybe find something better
But all my fine dreams
Well thought-out schemes
To gain the motherland
Have all eventually come down
To waiting for Everyman

Waiting here for Everyman
Make it on your own, if you think you can
If you see somewhere to go, I understand
I'm waiting here for Everyman
Don't ask me if he'll show --
I don't know

Make it on your own, if you think you can
Somewhere later on you'll have to take a stand
Then you're going to need a hand

Everybody's just waiting to hear from the one
Who can give them the answers
And lead them back to that place
In the warmth of the sun
Where sweet childhood still dances
Who'll come along
And hold out that strong
But gentle father's hand
Long ago, I heard someone say
Something about Everyman

Waiting here for Everyman
Make it on your own, make it if you think you can
If you see somewhere to go, I understand
I'm not trying to tell you
That I've seen the plan
Turn and walk away if you think I am
But don't think too badly
Of one who's left holding sand
He's just another dreamer,
Dreaming about Everyman

:grouphug:

[Kip Humphrey]

161. Is it time for the Citizen Tribunals yet?

[pnwmom]

164. And Chris Hedges WANTS it to not be okay. He can't wait for everything

to fall apart.

Fortunately, Chris Hedges isn't leading the country now, Obama is.

[mistertrickster]

167. No way. American streets can run red with blood, and the middle class will just turn football up

louder.

They'll be no revolution in the US as long as people can still buy cheap crap at Wal-Mart and the CONs get to keep their guns. They care more about their guns than they do about their jobs.

[John Q. Citizen]

171. This article is important. It's worth reading the whole thing. Thanks!

[ekwhite]

174. Chris Hedges is a bit over the top here

We are in deep doo doo, no doubt, and we are in for some rough times, but I have more confidence in the American people than he does. I see this as a tipping point. Laissez-faire capitalism is dead. What rises in its place is still to be seen.

[Vilis Veritas]

179. He lost me at Ralph Nader...

Ok, he lost me earlier than that when I read more than 10 Fear Mongering buzz phrases.

[Warren DeMontague]

187. WUR DOOMED!!!!!!

Ralph, Save Us!!!!!! :crazy:

[mojowork_n]

192. Interesting post. Late K & R.

Even the protracted, silly "Humans are actors in a Comedy/actors in a Tragedy" sub-thread about "play time" vs. "harsh necessity." Kind of reminded me of that old George Carlin routine comparing "football" (organized war) and "baseball" ('going home').