What Michael Phelps should have said

[Fly by night]

This morning, my AOL home page was festooned with this headline:

(Michael) Phelps Apologizes for Behavior: See Photo of Him Holding a Bong

So there we have it. One of the premier athletes on the planet, a model of hard work, determination and hyper-motivation to succeed, is diminished by the continuing war on (some) drugs. If he allows it to happen.

Instead of apologizing for demonstrating that he knows his way around a bong as much as he does a swimming pool, the most decorated Olympian in history should have said: "I apologize for waiting until now to show the world that cannabis has not impaired my performance nor diminished my motivation to succeed. Besides, smiles are almost always a good thing. Just ask President Obama. Like him, I did inhale. Like him, I know that's the point. Now excuse me -- I have to go polish my 14 Olympic gold medals."

Michael Phelps has nothing to apologize for this morning.

At least to me. What say you?

[DrDan]

1. are you willing to forgive rush?

his oxycontin addiction has not impacted his ability to spew hate.

[Fly by night]

5. Your (il)logic astounds me.

Do you believe there is a causal relationship between Limpballs' oxycontin (and likely Viagra) addiction and his hate-spewing? I don't.

I did not suggest that Santonio Holmes and Michael Phelps are superb athletes because of their own (past and present) drug use. I meant to suggest that their (past and present) drug use did not prevent them from achieving the highest podiums in their respective sports (pun intended).

Care to elaborate on what you meant (if it's different than what you posted)?

[DrDan]

6. why the attitude? I did not suggest any causal relationship.

rush's past drug use has not prevented him from achieving the highest podium in his career choice, right?

Has his drug use impacted his performance as a radio host?

What is the difference?

[Fly by night]

7. Now I'm really confused. What is your point exactly?

There was nothing in my OP that discussed forgiveness. Where is that coming from?

I don't believe Rush is an anal wart because he abuses oxycontin. Like Michael Phelps' use of cannabis, I would argue that it is likely irrelevant. However, I do believe Rush is a hypocrite if he supports the war on (some) drugs while ingesting copiously (or corpulantly) himself.

Again, since you've made two seemingly incongruent points in your two posts, please let me know what you meant to say (either time).

If my "attitude" offends you, get over it. You can do that faster than I can get over six years of unemployment, 18 months of incarceration, a future of severely limited options and the continued threat of losing my farm for my decision to grow and provide cannabis (free of charge) to four dying people here in Tennessee. (See www.saveberniesfarm.com).

Again, I would be happy to respond to you. It's just hard to know, from your short posts, just what your point is.

[DrDan]

11. "I don't believe Rush is an anal wart because he abuses oxycontin."

ok - so you are not one to criticize rush for his drug use.

See - you understood my post.

And sorry about your personal problems - but I really don't understand why they even made it in to the conversation.

I guess you do - so that is fine.

[Fly by night]

19. I hope your "Dr" was not granted in logic -- if so, you should ask for your money back.

I can criticize Limpballs both for being a political anal wart and for abusing oxycontin while supporting the war on (some other) drugs without suggesting that they are linked.

And if you don't understand why my "personal problems" are relevant to this OP, I would suggest that perhaps you should have your head examined. Something is misfiring up there.

Or maybe you're just being intentionally obtuse. Believe me, I've seen a lot of that over the past six years.

[DrDan]

24. I am done - you are obviously not open to any debate - even friendly debate

and I think that can be expanded to any conversation.

you are so rigid in your thinking - any attempt at asking you a simple question is seen as some kind of personal confrontation. You prefer to offer insults - so go for it. I am through with this thread.

[Fly by night]

28. Sorry if my pointing out your continued illogic made you leave.

Since several other posters have made the same observation, you might want to look at whether you ever did say what you intended. I still don't have a clue what point you're trying to make.

In any event, don't go away mad, ....

[liberalitch]

34. You should have been.....

.... Canonized as a fucking saint.

[reggie the dog]

15. no difference

except that rush is an asshole

[DrDan]

17. thank you - exactly!

[reggie the dog]

14. people do not need to be forgiven for drug use, period

They run their lives and do not need to apologize to anyone, unless they neglected their family, then they can apologize to them.

[DrDan]

20. yeah - I only used that word because Phelps apologized - and

was questioning the poster whether Rush's situation would be any different.

"Forgiveness" was not meant to be the issue.

[reggie the dog]

21. ah ok

[pacalo]

31. What about the abuser who uses national radio to spew hatred & division?

That's the point of anger toward Rush.

And does that Oxycontin make his personality more aggressive than it would be without the drug?

[reggie the dog]

37. without opiates

he would likely be worse

[asdjrocky]

18. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Is everyone that takes a drink an alcoholic? Give me a break. There is also NO WAY that cannabis compares to oxy. How do you live in a world with such absolutes?

[DrDan]

27. the poster was make the point that drug use has not had an impact

on Phelp's career. So his drug use should not be an issue.

I was simply asking if that also applied to Rush. If Oxycontin did not impact his ability to perform on the radio, then should it be an issue.

I am not, repeat NOT, drawing any parallels between marijuana and oxycontin.

[Fly by night]

29. I thought you were leaving this OP.

Instead of being prickly, please take a few minutes to tell all of us just what your point is. I am happy to discuss anything with you -- I didn't ask you to leave.

But, again, don't go away mad ....

[iamthebandfanman]

30. yah you are, because

you are asking if they had the same result... which means you are comparing the two...

since none of us know rush without oxycontin, its kinda hard to judge what type of person hed be without it dont cha think?

speaking as someone whos used oxycontin before, it probably does effect him on the radio because it probably lowers his inhibitions to say whatever nutjob thing that crosses his mind...
as someones whos used pot before,
i think its pretty safe to say weed didnt make phelps swim faster ;)

[n2doc]

38. Well, we know the oxy screwed up Rush's hearing

Weed doesn't seem to have done anything bad to Phelps.....

[asdjrocky]

32. First of all-

Sorry if I came off so strong. I think we should all be more cordial and I'm trying to do my part.

Second- Pot in most places, in small amounts isn't even illegal and what Phelps did is not the same thing as drug addiction.

Third- Of course it doesn't apply to Rush, but Rush opens himself up to it because he as done tirades on drug use. If I make a living on telling people their version of the truth and break my own rules then I'm just a lying asshole deserving of ridicule.

Forth- Seriously, aren't we all tired of Rush now?

[iamthebandfanman]

22. because oxycontin and marijuana are the same! n/t

[underseasurveyor]

76. THANK You

Gads how anyone can compare the two is not only laughable but is beyond me.

Oxy = Chemical Drug x(
Pot = Organic HERB:smoke:

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

39. Yes, I forgive Rush

--- for the use of drugs. Nothing to forgive, really, as there should be no law about the drugs.

As for the trash that comes out of his mouth/mind, that I do not forgive. Screwm.

:hi:

[mdmc]

41. i've never held that against rush

He is cool with me..living the merican dream..makin cash...

[EndersDame]

54. Oxycontin is nothing like marijuana

I had the good sense never to touch the stuff although I went to a charter high school for so-called at risk youth and saw first hand what kind of havoc oxycontin can reap on a human body and mind

[roody]

66. Oxycontin is not a plant.

Marijuana is not a drug; it is an herb, a plant.

[guitar man]

2. Phelps should have said

"Just how the hell DID you think I eat 12,000 calories a day?" :shrug: :P

[hlthe2b]

3. It occurred to me if 12,000 calories/day was before pot...

How much must he eat after smoking pot!!!! Geebus! ;)

[guitar man]

4. no kidding

you'd see a Frito Lay delivery truck backing into his driveway ! :rofl:

[LisaL]

8. He is lucky pot (apparently) is not considered a performance

enhancing drug. Otherwise he could have lost all of his medals.

[Froward69]

23. No because

He tested Clean before and after he won them. smoking a bong now only demonstrates his open mindedness.

[LisaL]

25. His blood has been collected and saved somewhere.

If anything were to be found in it even years later he is in trouble.

[Froward69]

44. yeah

but as for now unless he decides to compete again the THC in his blood has no bearing on his accomplishments. no one can take his medals away.

[NeedleCast]

9. Phelps should have said nothing at all

Holding press conferences to "talk about it" only increase the exposure. Dude has made millions in endoresments already. I guess it could put some endorsements at risk, but he's probably reached his pinnacle and has nothing to apologize for.

[reggie the dog]

16. he could have new endorsments too

for bongs, papers and the like.

[guitar man]

42. riiiing!!

Hey Michael, this is Tommy Chong...hey man, I was wondering if you'd like to do some product endorsements for me? :silly:

[Soylent Brice]

10. he shouldn't have apologized.

pot is not evil.

end the war on stupidty(drugs)!!!

[OneBlueSky]

12. "I'd like to volunteer to chair the Presidential Commission . . .

on the Commercialization and Decriminalization of Marijuana. Both are long overdue, and their passage will jump start our economy better than most anything else we can do (with the possible exception of a single payer healthcare plan). I'll be pleased to meet with the President and/or his advisors in this area at their earliest convenience." Michael Phelps

yeah, it's fiction . . . but wouldn't it be loverly . . . ;-)

[Fly by night]

13. A note on the OP title

I originally posted that both Michael Phelps and Santonio Holmes (the Super Bowl MVP) are both being tarred this morning by their associations with illicit drugs. However, since their circumstances are different, I decided to edit this OP to focus just on Michael Phelps. Unfortunately, while my edited title does appear on the GD forum, my earlier (unedited) title appears on the "Greatest" page. It would be great for DU to fix this disconnect. Too often, I see misspelled words in "Greatest" OP titles that have been corrected by OPers in the titles that appear on the respective forums.

If we can edit our content for whatever purpose, we should also be able to edit our OP titles, wherever they appear. Thanks.

[iamthebandfanman]

26. such a huge NON-story

i feel for the guy, having to put up with this bullshit. it MAY have had merit if he had been puffing away at the olympics(altho i dunno how pot is a performance enhancer for swimming).

you dont hafta apologize for jack squat michael!



legalize now!

[liberalitch]

33. Use what happened to spark national debate about legalization......

.... Legalize it, control it tax it and clear up the national debt while saving many a family farm.

There that's my opinion.

[Fly by night]

35. Agreed. Completely.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

36. He had IMHO nothing to apologize for and in fact, I'm disappointed that he did.

I realize that he has to answer to his sponsors and the big bucks probably what motivated that decision.

[Romulox]

40. I guess Phelps will have to quit the Olympics and settle for being President of the USA.

After all, while pot destroys ones ability to dive, it apparently allows one to run for the office of President (so long as you promise to lock up everyone who made the same "mistake" you did.) :shrug:

[polmaven]

43. The fact remains, however,

that Michael Phelps broke the law, and allowed himself to be photographed doing it.

Like it or not, smoking pot is still considered a felony where he was. Also, like it or not, younger children look up to him, and his example means a lot. Flagrant violation of the law does not set a good example.

To me, it is really more about that than anything else. If he wants to do it, then do it in private.

[Fly by night]

46. A response

I imagine that Michael was not aware he was being photographed (damn those cell phones), so he may have believed he was "doing it" in private. If the person who took his picture also toked on that bong, it should be the last time she/he is invited to partake. Any time, anywhere.

It is unfortunate that marijuana use -- of any kind -- is still a felony most places. It is also unfortunate that marijuana is still considered more hazardous, more addictive and less useful for medical purposes than cocaine, methamphetamine and oxycontin. One way to change those situations would be for every current and former cannabis user to stand up, admit that fact and demand some sanity around this Goddess-given herb.

As far as children are concerned, would you recommend that parents avoid drinking any alcohol at any time around their children? After all, alcohol is more likely to kill those kids (e.g., alcohol poisoning, car wrecks, child abuse) than cannabis ever has or will. I would much prefer having responsible adults demonstrate what responsible cannabis use looks like than to define ANY use as abuse and setting a bad example.

As a public health epidemiologist, I worked for years to control the spread of the AIDS epidemic. There are very few things that can be said that were positive outcomes of that epidemic but one of the few was the realization (as well-closeted gays began to become sick) that gay people were present in all facets of society and many held positions of responsibility and respect in their communities. Maybe if all cannabis users were to "out" themselves en masse (say, on April 20), a number of the drug-warrior self-perpetuating myths of pot-induced laziness and lack of motivation would begin to disappear. Like a puff of smoke, as it were.

[polmaven]

51. Drinking alcohol is not illegal.

Point out to me where I said that the smoking itself was the bad example. I did not. I said the law breaking was the poor example for the kids that look up him. And yes, parents should avoid breaking the law in front of their children.

I don't give a crap if he is using cannabis...That's completely up to him...and I, btw, voted "yes" on the ballot question here in November regarding decriminalization of marijuana. I really don't believe it should even be a misdemeanor, but that was the best we could do for now.

If he wasn't aware that he, as a celebrity athlete, was LIKELY to be photographed in a public place, then he is really pretty dumb. "In private" is "in private"...not where there are people he didn't know. And if it was an alleged friend who took the picture, and distributed it, Then he obviously needs to get some new friends, too.

I don't think you comprehended my point at all....Please read the post again.....

[Fly by night]

58. Another response

First of all, thanks for helping get the MA cannabis decrim law passed.

Once again, I doubt that Michael was in a "public place". That, to me, would be a street corner, not a private home. Fortunately, fucking a willing partner in one's own home is not yet illegal, though it would be if you did it on the street corner. Unfortunately, using cannabis is illegal anywhere, including on your death-bed in the privacy of your own home, in 37 states.

We agree that his private behavior became an issue because someone else decided to make his private behavior "public" by photographing him and distributing the picture (likely for cash). It is unfortunate and the person who should be punished is the numb-nuts who took the picture.

I have lived and worked in places in this country where purchasing alcohol is illegal (e.g., Mississippi during the 60s and dry counties in Texas and elsewhere to this day) and where using it is still illegal (certain American Indian nations). In all of those circumstances, alcohol was (and is) still sold, used and abused -- it was (and is) just more expensive to do those things.

Finally, if everyone followed your edict, Black people would still be riding in the back of buses and women would still be getting paid 60 cents for every dollar their male counterparts made. Thank the Goddess that Rosa Parks broke the former law back in the 50s. Thank the Goddess that President Obama made the latter (pay disparity) illegal ... last week.

I am also fortunate to have worked with Hispanic and Indian community leaders in New Mexico who grew up in mountain villages where cannabis was cultivated and used, both medicinally and non-medicinally, for centuries but with clear cultural constraints on what constituted appropriate use. According to them, it wasn't until Anglos moved into the region who had no interest in conforming to those cultural constraints that the children of those Hispanic and Indian leaders even became interested in using cannabis recreationally.

As a public health professional, I find the legality dimension very unhelpful in reducing the health consequences of substance abuse. Over 600,000 people die every year in this country from using alcohol and/or tobacco, while no one has died from a cannabis overdose in all of recorded history. In fact, there is a growing volume of research that indicates that cannabis use has demonstrable health benefits, including reducing the incidence of cancer. (PM me if you want the references.)

Finally, on the morality of breaking laws, I defer to my elder:

"There are just laws and there are unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that an unjust law is no law at all... One who breaks an unjust law must do it openly, lovingly...I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and willingly accepts the penalty by staying in jail to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the very highest respect for law." Martin Luther King, "Letter from the Birmingham Jail"

Thanks again for your vote to decrim cannabis in MA. Now we'll just wait and see if your local and state law enforcement officials will abide by that law.

[polmaven]

60. You and I will...

have to agree to disagree on the "private-public" thing...OK? The same will go for the just-unjust laws. Dr. King didn't whine about paying the consequences. :hi:

As far as the enforcement in MA, Governor Patrick signed it into law, and law enforcement is "discussing" the implementation.

[NeedleCast]

48. smoking pot is still considered a felony

Wrong.

[polmaven]

50. No, not wrong...

In MOST places. There are some states that have decriminalized it to a misdemeanor status,- my own state, for instance, but in most places the possession is still a felony...and I assume you will agree that, in order to smoke it, one must first possess it.

[fishwax]

52. a misdemeanor, not a felony

(I would assume, anyway, unless it was a very big bong :))

[polmaven]

53. I think you are wrong...

It depends on where you are. In most states, posession of marijuana remains a felony.

[fishwax]

56. He was in South Carolina, where from what I can tell

they change from possession to felony possession/intent to distribute at an ounce.

I know simple possession is still a felony in some states (I don't know about most, at least for a first offense), but it appears that South Carolina has both misdemeanor and felony drug violations.

[killbotfactory]

57. There is nothing moral about obeying a bad law

Sodomy used to be illegal in some states until fairly recently. Brewing beer in your home used to be illegal. Black people voting used to be illegal. If it is an unjust law it DOES set a good example by breaking it.

[polmaven]

64. You are not REALLY

going to compare committing sodomy, brewing beer in your home or smoking pot to African American Suffrage, are you? Stupid laws and unjust laws are two different things. While laws against pot may be silly, they are not unconstitutional.

[killbotfactory]

68. They are all bad laws

Do you know how many people are in jail because of the war on drugs? Do you know how many of those people are minorities?

[polmaven]

73. They may be bad laws.

But there is an ENORMOUS DIFFERENCE between laws we just don't like and laws designed to deny people their civil rights.

If minorities are being targeted because of their color or for any other reason, THAT is, in and of itself, illegal, and THAT is what would be noble to protest and to be arrested doing so.

When we don't like a law, the noble thing is to work to change it...not to simply ignore it.

[killbotfactory]

75. Drug laws were designed to target minorities

When they first banned marijuana it was because they were having problems dealing with minority groups who tended to smoke pot in the southwest. Banning pot was an easy way to target them for harassment from state authorities and drive them out of towns. Nixon revitalized the drug war as a way to oppress political groups who were fond of the stuff, and the drug war has pretty much destroyed large sections of many major cities. Minorities are jailed for non-violent drug crimes on a scale way out of proportion with actual usage statistics.

Here's a report by Human Rights Watch about it:
http://www.hrw.org/legacy/english/docs/2008/05/05/usint18745.htm

[polmaven]

77. That may have been the origin,

but profiling is illegal and awareness is very high now. Like I said....get to work to CHANGE the laws. It is NOT noble to simply ignore them. Today, they are not intended to violate civil rights...They are just bad laws.

[Tsiyu]

45. Totally agree with you, Fly by night

He might have added, "More of your kids might be successful as well if you quit spending so much money to enslave them when they smoke it."

Bunch of dumbasses in this country, swilling their own poisons, clutching their chests in ABSOLUTE SHOCK AND DISMAY as they buy HOOK LINE AND SINKER the corporate lies about the "dangers" of marijuana.

The only thing dangerous about it is that its continuing status as a controlled substance is feeding the pharmaceutical, prison and slave labor corporations. Because they need to be BIGGER, right?

Follow the money, peeps.

[spanone]

47. i have no problem with marijuana whatsoever.

[Stevenmarc]

49. Thanks to pot and Rosetta Stone

he can get the directions to the nearest head shop in 9 languages.

[Fly by night]

61. Say what?

[NashVegas]

55. It Was Very Disappointing

1. If you're not prepared to take the heat, don't light the bong.

2. The apology smacks of "I gotta do this to keep my endorsements," and leaves him as a far, far worse role model than "I contribute to NORML because I think MJ laws are silly."

[Fly by night]

59. You've given me an idea for what Michael Phelps should say next.

"Because I do not want others, famous or not, to face serious legal and financial penalties for using cannabis in the privacy of one's home, from this day forward I will donate 25% of my endorsement earnings to NORML and 25% to Americans for Safe Access."

Michael could do that and still take home more money each year than the rest of us will earn in the rest of our lifetimes.

(BTW, NORML and ASA are the two cannabis reform groups that I have the most respect for.)

[BlooInBloo]

62. Ah. We're still talking about this.

[Tsiyu]

65. Some of us are, yeah

I don't know about YOU so the "we" thing is iffy....

[bagimin]

63. I was thinking the same thing

why do they always say they made a mistake in judgment?
Hypocrites.

[Giant Robot]

67. How about more simply:

Fuck you all. I have more gold medals than most of you have socks.

That should do it.

[AnnieBW]

69. I look at it this way

I'm a Marylander and proud as hell of Michael Phelps. The kid's been in training for YEARS. He's missed out on all of the things that normal college kids do, like drink beer and smoke pot. He's entitled to try a bong hit or two (or more!) if he's currently not competing. BFD. He's not doing anything that the kids of the people who are shocked about this are doing.

[southerncrone]

70. I concur. But I think the "unspoken message" speaks louder than

what Phelps actually said.

Most people between the ages of 15-60, have at least "tried" pot at some time or another. There is a large segment that still uses, and another large segment that would still use if their jobs weren't contingent on passing random "drug tests" & they had a reliable source for the product.

This one issue is at the root of many of our problems.

If legalized, it could be taxed heavily (like cigs & booze)& we could probably fund universal health care for everyone.

Our prison system could be reserved for "real" criminals. This would save a ton of money,too.

[Fly by night]

72. Agreed.

[autorank]

71. "Man, that's some good stuff!"

Hemp should be legalized. That would take care of all of this.

My personal preferences have nothing to do with what others do for amusement. I simply don't
care what Phelps does. It's his business. If you legalize hemp, then the by product is
a huge addition to national resources and the end of this obsession with pot. The current
favorite brand of cannabis is very strong and that's with it illegal. Maybe legalization
would stop the tremendous appeal of getting high.

The other response, from baseball great Albert Bell when asked if he was sorry for being rude
to a kid asking for an autograph: "I apologize for nothing."

[shadowknows69]

74. Phelps could have helped this country along to a positive dialogue about MJ

Instead he took the "Clinton" way out and feigned shame for his actions, at least he didn't give the BS Bill did. "I left the smoke in the bong chamber. I did not release the carb on that woman...um er...water pipe!!!"