Angel Food Ministries - I've just used them for the 1st time.

[onetiredmom]

I wanted to share a resource for inexpensive, good groceries. There is a non-profit, non-denominational group called Angel Food Ministries. http://www.angelfoodministries.com/

You go to their website and find a distribution point(s) close to you. You can see the menu for the current month and upcoming month. Then you contact the distribution point and see how to place an order. What you are ordering is a box containing a week's worth of food for a family of 4 for $30.00. The week's worth really fed us longer than a week. The box contains a variety of frozen meat and sides. You can order as many boxes as you want. If you order the basic ($30)order, you can also order extra boxes of meat or veggies and fresh fruit that are very reasonably priced. You have to order in advance so they have the correct amount of food ready for distribution. Each site has its own system as to when and how you get advance order and payment to them. They ask no questions as to why you are buying the food, there are no salary forms, they don't ask how much you make.

January was the first month for me to use them. Before I went to pickup the food, I was afraid I would be embarrassed, as this was the first time I have asked for help of this kind. My distribution center was at a Methodist church. They were very welcoming and very kind. They walked me through and filled my box, telling me everything they were putting in the box. At the end, they asked if I had any prayer requests, and if so, I could put them in a box. I didn't have to put any personal info such as name, etc. They gave me some info about the church, and a magazine that Angel Food Ministries prints, but I never felt any pressure from them about coming to their church. At the end, someone carried my boxes out for me and put them in my trunk and wished me well. The food we have eaten so far has been good.

They also offer 10 prepared, frozen nutritionally balanced meals for $28.00. They are good for seniors who have a hard time getting to the grocery store, etc.

If you, or someone you know, is having a hard time making ends meet, this could be a help to you. Hope this helps someone. Or if you are doing ok right now, maybe you could buy a basic box for the distribution center to give to someone who needs it.

Take care.

Edit to include that they accept food stamps.

[tavalon]

1. Thank you for the information and welcome to DU

I know you've been here a number of months but the Fall was really hectic, what with the election and all. Anyway, welcome.

[onetiredmom]

6. Until recently,

I couldn't get my browser to work with DU at home. So the only time I could be on was at work....and I need to keep my job, so I mainly just read what you guys were talking about! I finally got my browser to work at home, so hopefully I can post more now.

[FSogol]

2. K & R. n/t

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

3. K&R

The best way to get through this is to share whatever we can, especially information.

[Sanctified]

4. Looks like a really good organization, thank you for sharing. n/t

[ClarkUSA]

5. Thank you for the information. Good luck.

[drm604]

7. Do you know if there is any flexibility in the menus?

Some people have food allergies or aren't able to digest certain things, but their menus don't appear to have any flexibility.

[onetiredmom]

9. No, there is no flexibility.

There were a couple of things in the box I didn't care for, so I gave them to someone else who could use them. Maybe you could go in with someone and share the boxes, or buy more than one box with others and take what you want from them?

[drm604]

11. I don't personally need this, at least not yet.

But if I eventually do, their way of doing things could make it a little difficult. You would think that they'd have some method of handling dietary issues. Some one who has health problems and is financially strapped doesn't want to be eating things that could make them sick, and also doesn't want to be throwing away food. Sharing is a possibility, but that would mean finding someone to share with which entails the embarrassment of talking about it with friends and family.

[Lisa0825]

15. It is a cost control measure.

The items they include are dependent on what they can acquire that month in order to offer the amount of food for $30.

Also, it is not just a need-based program. They welcome people to purchase from them regardless of income, because the more people who participate, the more buying power they have.

[drm604]

73. They wouldn't have to change the selections available.

They could just be a little more flexible and allow some replacements. For example, this month they have stir fry with broccoli, red peppers and onions. The red peppers and onions in particular could be problematic for some people with digestive problems. (Note that I'm not talking about people who don't like the taste or might experience a little discomfort. There are people who can experience life threatening issues, such as bowel obstructions or severe allergic reactions, from certain foods.) Giving a pound of that stir fry to someone who can't eat it is wasteful. They also have a pound of carrots in this month's package. Why not let someone replace the stir fry with carrots? They could get no stir fry and two pounds of carrots. Maybe someone else doesn't like carrots and could then take 2 pounds of stir fry. Or, instead of mixing the peppers, onions, and broccoli together, leave them separate and allow people to choose between them.

People with health issues, in particular the elderly, are probably more likely than most to be experiencing financial problems. They shouldn't be ignored. It's certainly possible to be flexible towards their needs while at the same time controlling costs.

[Lisa0825]

99. Having flexibility increases administrative costs.

Having a set package makes it much easier and cheaper. I do agree with you that it would be nice, but there are reasons for doing it that way. I wonder if they could offer a second package with a higher price for custom orders.

[Lisa0825]

8. I have used them before.

It's a good program. I am not sure about all states, but here in Texas, you can also use food stamps to purchase from them. At the location I used, any unclaimed boxes are distributed to those in need.

[Still Sensible]

10. If all "faith based" initiatives were handled in this manner

we would have a lot less controversy about them. The truth is churches often have the best location and volunteer manpower to provide these kinds of services. What is important is to keep the politics out of it, as opposed to the way the Bush administration tried to politicize everything.

[Critters2]

46. Angle Food Ministries is an evangelism tool of Conservative Churches. nt

[Still Sensible]

55. but the way they are reportedly managing this operation

I do not find offensive.

[Critters2]

60. There's no need to put tracts in with the food,

or all faiths should be allowed to put brochures in. We asked to put liberal tracts in, and were not allowed.

[Critters2]

69. We asked if we could put Progressive Christian lit in the grocery bags.

They said no. They were very clear that this is a conservative Christian program.

With government funding. You don't find that offensive?

[drm604]

78. I find it offensive.

If there's government funding then the tracts, of any stripe, should not be there. At the same time, I can't fault a struggling family for taking advantage of the program.

[WolverineDG]

91. Then sponsor your own AFM distribution at your church

the church that does this in my town is the most liberal around & have no problems putting their stuff in the bags.

dg

[Critters2]

107. The agreement they signed with AFM says they'll only put aFM

material in the boxes. They could lose their distribution site if they don't abide by this. I've had conversations with AFM about this. There's a contract, and it's enforced.

[WolverineDG]

112. Well, I don't recall the information being particularly "conservative"

and I definitely wasn't offended by it.

dg

[conscious evolution]

161. The AFM is not necessary for such a program.

Any church,or any organization with a 501c3 status for that matter, can do the same thing.
One of the perks of having 501c3 status is you can buy food from wholesale distributors.That is how AFM is able to do this so cheaply.By buying in bulk from the same distributors that supply restaurants and institutional kitchens(schools,hospitals,etc...)

[Critters2]

171. AFM does it with loans from the USDA. HUGE loans from the USDA. nt

[ms liberty]

106. That may be true for the group that you asked, but here...

the Angel Food Ministries in our community does not include any religious tracts or proselytizing, and they distribute the food at our community building.

[Critters2]

108. AFM requires inclusion of their literature. nt

[Critters2]

113. We asked the national organization. They said it violates the contract

we would have to sign.

[Hannah Bell]

131. According to the national site, their magazine, "The Servant" is packed in every box.

http://www.angelfoodministries.com/news/

“The Servant” magazine is included in each box of Angel Food.

From: The Servant - January 2009

By: Pastor Wes Wingo

"Love. It’s what we all want in our lives, right? Well, the Bible is God’s manual for love. When we follow His instructions, wonderful things will result."


The only way your site wouldn't have it is if they unpacked the boxes & removed it. But I suspect recipients would be leery of unsealed boxes.

[WolverineDG]

133. Considering you have to bring your own box to begin with

:eyes: about the unsealed boxes jab. We get it; you don't like this program because the organizers don't think exactly like you. So, set up your own program, apply for the same USDA grant, & have at.

dg

[Hannah Bell]

138. Their site says otherwise: "salvation tracts that are placed in each food order."

"Angel Food Ministries crosses denominational lines and has spread the good news of the gospel of Christ through salvation tracts that are placed in each food order."

http://www.angelfoodministries.com/about/

[WolverineDG]

150. Then I must not know what the fuck I'm talking about

I only actually USED this service, ya know, & read my receipts which always said "please bring a box so we can place food in it." The food is set up in an assembly-line fashion & placed in your box when you arrive. But what the fuck do I know anyway?

:eyes:

dg

[Critters2]

173. Yeah, who to believe? You, or the site of the organization? nt

[WolverineDG]

181. I've actually used AFM as have others here

I'm sure they could also verify the request to bring boxes. :eyes:

dg

[Joe Chi Minh]

199. This notion of a liberal church doesn't make a lot of sense - any more than a

conservative one does.

I expect you mean a sexually liberal church. There isn't one that Christ would recognise as compliant with his teachings and those of his disciples. Similarly, an economically conservative Christian church is an oxymoron.

It is the Church's job to preach the Gospel in accordance with the scriptures and its mainstream tradition. Where tradition conflicted with the teachings of the New Testament - and it has been no stranger to that, evidently - insofar, it was anything but Christian.

The only thing the political right has ever got right is that you don't change the apostolic tradition to suit current prevailing tenets of belief/non-belief. Unfortunately, instead of using that effectively, they have traduced it by using it as a front for economic extortion - just as the Pharisees did in Christ's day. Although I'm sure there are plenty of sincere and devout Christians in "Liberal" Christian churches.

The abolition of slavery came from an evolution, not a change. Even in the Old Testament, enslavement of fellow Hebrews was anathematised by Yahweh. It suited slave-owners in the US to teach "their" slaves Christianity. It was also their Christian duty to do so - thereby, of course, falling under the anathema.

Moreover, while the Apsotle, Paul, preached a very stoical acceptance of slavery, it seems to have been a far different kind of slavery enjoined on Christians (as, incidentally, it had been for the Jews). The notion of mutilating them to prevent their absconding would have been an absolute no-no.

Be grateful for small mercies. Those people are giving their time, free of charge, to help their fellow human beings in dire neeed. They should enact anti-deiphobe legislation and anti-heterophobe legislation, the way the pendulum has swung, with a powerful minority imposing its will on the majority - in the UK just now to the extent of denying the grandparents of two young children the right to take over caring for them, while their daughter was being treated for drug-addiction - in favour of two homosexual men.

Four sheriffs found in favour of the grandparents, but still the Edinburgh social services fought their rulings. The elderly couple could no longer afford to contest the matter. Now a group of wealthy Catholic businessmen have taken up their cause. The social services' legal cost have, of course, been borne by the tax-payer. There were also three heterosexual couples waiting to adopt. The harm these militants do to their fellows with these kinds of hate crimes of their own are incalculable. Hatred begets hatred.

Incidentally, by far the most sinister aspect of it all, was that the social services chief warned the grandparents that because they had talked to the media about it, they would not be allowed to see the children again! Pending resolution of the matter, the children have been in foster care. As one journalist put it, being family is now a vice that dare not speak its name. This, despite experts concluding - what was in any case obvious - that children suffer more problems later in life, without a father and mother. Now, a Scots Nationalist MSP, himself an adoptive parent, is looking into the matter.

In today's paper, a nurse has been suspended for asking a patient if she would lie her to pray for her - "failing to show commitment to equality and diversity". As J K Galbraith put it: "Truth is not the average of right and wrong;" and G K Chesterton: "the purpose of an open mind is to close on the truth." Christian don't believe that one belief is as good as another, irrespective of its content, simply because it it is held by another human being.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

259. Don't be willing to "settle."

How do you complain about an organization that feeds hungry people? You can't. But, something about this makes me VERY uncomfortable.
Evangelicals partnering with the USDA to feed citizens at reduced rates. What we need is a vibrant economy, jobs, healthcare, not church and
state charity.

People have been willing to settle for the scraps thrown to them while the corps, tax free mega churches and the top 2% live like royalty.

[MilesColtrane]

65. I'll have to inform the local Episcopal church that they are conservative.

You know, the denomination with a gay presiding bishop?

Sometimes people really do just want to help other people.

[Critters2]

68. Ask the Angel Food people if you can put progressive Christian lit in their bags.

I have. The answer was a firm NO!

[Hannah Bell]

74. your church may not be conservative: the "ministry" is.

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/joseph-wingo.asp?cycle=08

[Critters2]

75. Wonder why he couldn't use that $12,500 to feed the poor,

rather than the GOP.

[Hannah Bell]

141. kickback

[K Gardner]

105. Its community service/outreach. They make $1/box. My neighbors and family have been ordering

for months and no one has tried to evangelize us yet. Even if they did, so what? Not everything community churches do is evil.

[Critters2]

109. The government should not be involved if theyre distributing religious lit. nt

[Hannah Bell]

140. support of an establishment of religion. if they distribute 300 boxes, it's $300 for the church.

it's not ministry if you get paid, especially with government money.

or with money skimmed from the recipients' payment.

[K Gardner]

175. Oh for pete's sakes.. you again with more tripe. Call the feds then if you think it's illegal. More

b/s from you.

[Hannah Bell]

206. show me where what i've posted is false. you can't, it's on their website.

$1/box for the "charity." churches pass out $30 in food using volunteer labor & get 3.3% back.

[spoony]

246. Well for one thing a lot of your posting is speculation

such as saying they would refuse anyone who didn't have thirty dollars. That's based on nothing but your dislike of them. This thread is littered with dishonest nonsense like that, and rather dirty analogies comparing this group to racist hate groups.

[Hannah Bell]

267. They take orders, get the food from afg, charge recipients $30/box,

$1 goes to the church & $29 to central afg. Sites can give away all the orders they like, but if they don't send afg the cash, they won't be a site very long. Someone's got to pay for the food that was delivered.

This thread is littered with posters saying it's ok for government to fund religion & religious infrastructure so long as religion "feeds people".

So if that's the standard, it should be ok to fund any group that "feeds people," n'est pas?

Or does the hypocrisy pick & choose which kind of "church" it should fund to "feed people"?

8 million bucks to support a whyolesale buying club where the recipients pay for everything they get, & some posters get all misty-eyed - "They're feeeeeeeding people!"

same types who applauded fascist jobs programs: "They're giving us jooooooooobsssss!"

as if the last 8 years didn't illustrate the problem with rolling over for whatever "gifts" the ptb promote to transfer tax money to private hands.

[Hannah Bell]

149. Right, no politics involved. That's why the founder & his family do this:

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/ge ...


Wingo,Joseph Mr. Angel Food Ministries/Ceo $12,500 03/12/2007 P NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $3,600 06/16/2008 P LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $-1,300 06/16/2008 P LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $1,300 06/16/2008 G LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $1,000 03/20/2007 P LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/FOUNDER $1,300 06/10/2008 P CHAMBLISS FOR SENATE - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY $1,000 03/15/2007 P CHAMBLISS FOR SENATE - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY J ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/PASTOR & CEO $1,000 03/08/2007 P FRIENDS OF JIM INHOFE COMMITTEE - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY MR ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/CEO $250 03/26/2008 P GEORGIANS FOR ISAKSON - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY MR ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/CEO $500 03/30/2007 P GEORGIANS FOR ISAKSON - Republican



People think you get government grants & sites in 35 states for being a nice guy.

[prolesunited]

12. I'm glad that's working out for you

But I looked at the menu and it seemed quite unhealthy to me - mostly meats and starches. Eating lower on the food chain, using coupons and maximizing loss leaders, I could do much better and eat healthier for $30.

[Lisa0825]

16. That's mainly why I don't use them right now.

I am trying to lose some weight, so I am pretty specific in what I will eat right now. That being said, eating healthy ain't all that cheap. Fresh fruits and veggies and leaner meats are expensive, especially for a single person who can't really buy fresh food in bulk.

[TommyO]

28. It is far better than the "dollar menu" at any fast food place.

[Baby Snooks]

168. I agree....

I don't see the value and if this is subsidized in any way there should be some value. Where is it? There may be some value in the meats. There may not be. The rest of the menu doesn't impress me.

Depending on where you live in the country you probably would do better spending the $30 wisely in the grocery store. Stouffer's is about $2.80 average a package in Kroger's and most other stores in Houston so their "prepared meals" for seniors is not any bargain at ten packages for $28. And probably not as good.

I think what bothers me is whatever money the government is spending on this program probably would be better spent serving the really poor who really can't afford $30 a week instead of supplementing for people who can afford it. And probably would do better in the grocery store. My budget this week is about $10. Pot pies and tuna and pasta supplemented with rice and vegetables and cereal and canned fruit from my last trip to the food pantries. I have used my allotments until March. That's the reality for quite a few who have fallen through the cracks in our system and don't "qualify" for ongoing assistance.

If I had $30 I wouldn't be spending it on Angel Food food. I'd be having a feast every night this week.

[county worker]

13. For those who can, give them a contribution.

[RebelOne]

14. My neighbor has been buying from them for a while now.

And she shares it with another neighbor, who has 2 small children and very little money. It wouldn't do me any good as everything is meat based and I'm a vegetarian.

[Fireweed247]

33. me too

...but maybe you can ask for the vegetarian version, I bet they are getting many requests these days so maybe email and pressure them to offer that option.

[RebelOne]

40. Good idea I'll try it.

[Fireweed247]

120. I will too

that way they will get at least a little pressure today :fistbump:

[LiberalEsto]

17. Here's a federal food distribution program

Link: http://www.fns.usda.gov/fdd/programs/tefap/tefap_eligibility.htm
for USDA emergency food assistance.

Some kind of USDA food program used to be available in the late 1960s-early 1970s. When I went through a long spell of unemployment while living in Massachusetts, it kept me from starving. They would give out boxes of food every week for eligible people -- I believe this was before food stamps. The challenge was to find ways to use the items, which included large bags of prunes, powdered milk, dried peas, etc.

[prolesunited]

20. I used to mix the prepared powdered milk

with a gallon of regular milk to get two for one. It didn't taste too bad.

And who can forget the cheese?

[Shardik]

260. OMG, Government cheese, I remember it well.

It was kind of like Velveeta with no taste. :)

[Art_from_Ark]

285. Yeah, it was pretty bland

But mix it with a can of Ro-Tel, and it made a pretty good nacho dip

[DoctorMyEyes]

18. Thanks for posting this info!

There are several distribution sites in my area and this program seems like it could do a lot of good towards helping one of my young co-workers stretch her monthly food stamp allotment.

I'm so psyched - I can't wait to see her and tell her about it! Thanks again for posting about your experience.

[Hannah Bell]

19. There is something wrong with this organization:

March 2006 - How USDA is Partnering with Faith-Based and Community Organizations

Doug Canup, area director for USDA Rural Development, said the $6.97 million loan was the largest the USDA has done for a faith-based organization under the president's Faith-Based and Community Initiative, an effort designed to assist churches and ministries as they serve their communities.



October 2005 - Local Ministry gets $7 million

MOULTRIE — The largest loan awarded by the USDA as part of the president's faith-based initiative was made official during a ceremonial check presentation to a Monroe-based ministry this week.

Angel Food Ministries received the nearly $7 million check from U.S. Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns and other government dignitaries during a press conference held Tuesday at the Sunbelt Agricultural Exposition in Moultrie.. Johanns was attending the expo in order to conduct one of a series of forums currently under way to discuss the upcoming farm bill before Congress...

http://www.angelfoodministries.com/news/endorsements.asp



It's government-funded. My guess is it's another bush-era scam that distributes some of the food that used to be distributed through gov't commodities/welfare programs under the guise that a "ministry" is doing it; & though it's called "non-profit," in fact gov't dollars may be going to religious salaries, & corp tax write-offs for surplus food.

I think this is not a ministry, but some kind of graft off the public purse disguised as ministry.

More: the org is running food stamp privatization models. fuck them. government loans to build their warehouses, gov't dollars funding religion & privatization schemes, duplicitous PR.

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:wae5nqTnQBgJ:www.religionandsocialpolicy.org/interviews/article_print.cfm%3Fid%3D166+Angel+Food+Ministries+government&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us

& supposedly insert religious tracts into the food boxes.

http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=198727

[Lisa0825]

21. I have reall all that before. I do not see it as a problem.

The bottom line for me is that it is a good program that works for those who participate.

[Hannah Bell]

24. I see it as a problem where gov't money is being used to fund religion & religious infrastructure

& where people are deceived into believing it's a private ministry & where folks are essentially buying mostly gov't surplus food at cost, & where gov't $ are being used to privatize essential services into the religious sphere.

It's deceitful, & i don't want to pay to support religion in politics & governance.

[TommyO]

39. Where is your evidence that this is govt surplus food?

[Hannah Bell]

48. it's bought through usda networks at cost, for discrimination complaints you're told

to contact usda, usda is issuing the grants & loans.

[Lars39]

23. Jesus fed the people, he didn't charge them 30 bucks.

[TommyO]

34. Jesus didn't have a distribution network and expenses

[Hannah Bell]

47. usda has a distribution network, the one they used when they distributed the same food.

now the government is paying for a new one, & it will belong to the religious right.

[TommyO]

25. For something that you call graft, they feed a lot of people

I've actually bought from them in the past, and would consider it in the future. The food isn't super-high quality, but it is decent and won't break the bank for most people.

Oh my, a religious tract in a box of food? Guess what? If you're not buying their food, it's none of your business, if you are buying it, and aren't Christian, ignore it. Nobody is forcing you to read it.

This is one ministry that I'm behind, and I'm not even Christian.

[Lisa0825]

27. Exactly.

I can find way bigger things to be outraged about.

[Hannah Bell]

54. Right, no big deal if the federal government builds church-owned buildings for them.

No big deal if the government funds the takeover of welfare programs by church organizations or pays church salaries. No big deal if the same ministers turn around & donate some of the money back to the republican party - or the democratic party, for that matter.

Fucking trivial, so long as they're selling surplus food to poor people at cost & calling it charity.

[Hannah Bell]

29. It is graft when public monies are siphoned off to support private & religious groups.

1. The people are buying the food at wholesale cost.

2. The government is funding building projects & other items for the private groups, though there are perfectly useable government building in the networks that used to distribute commodity foods, etc. this is gov't subsidy to these groups & to contractors - but it's covert.

3. These are pilot privatization ventures.

4. The government used to give away the same or similar items; now it's charging for them, & opening it to all comers. Thus covert subsidy of agribusiness v. smaller producers & shifting of dollar burden of feeding low-income folks from income tax (still paid more by higher-income) onto the poor folks themselves.

[Hannah Bell]

31. anyone can "feed a lot of people" selling food at cost with gov't funding & support.

[TommyO]

36. Yet Angel Food Ministries is doing it

If you have such a bug up your ass about AFM, create a secular complement to it.

[Hannah Bell]

41. They're doing it because they colluded with the Bush admin to do it.

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/joseph-wingo.asp?cycle=08

Joseph Wingo, $12,500 to the RNC.

I belong to a church, but it's not "connected" - we don't participate in fucking government graft.

[DoctorMyEyes]

125. That's really the bottom line isn't it?

As if it's reasonable to expect people to go hungry waiting for the right and "politically pure" organization to offer them food.

[Hannah Bell]

132. Um, churches run feeding programs all the time, sometimes with gov't money.

I have no objections; just don't pretend it's a purely church ministry, & don't put religious literature in the boxes, & don't ask the government to fund your church-owned warehouses, & don't turn government jobs dispensing food stamps into church jobs, & don't pay churches for every box of food they distribute.

[Critters2]

215. This "ministry" is not giving food away. It's selling food. Government food

using government funds. No one will go hungry without this. There are food pantries and USDA distribution programs for the poor that do not proselytize.

[TommyO]

37. Yet Angel Food Ministries is doing it

If you have such a bug up your ass about AFM, create a secular complement to it.

[tkmorris]

97. "If you're not buying their food, it's none of your business"

Yes it is. I am helping to pay for it.

[arikara]

50. They're trying hard to bring something similar here in to BC

These guys are starting to horn in on the supermarket donors of the legitimate food banks who gives the food away instead of selling it. And they're being surreptitiously backed by the provincial gov't. I still can't fathom why they think someone will / should pay for the dented cans and stale dated products when they are giving them away for free at the real food banks. Plus the local food bank does an intake to find out what the client's dietary requirements are and will make up vegetarian, diabetic, gluten free hampers and more.

[onetiredmom]

51. Just based on my visit,

I didn't receive any dented cans or stale-dated items. Most of what I got was vacuum-sealed frozen or fresh.

This organization has been in place since 1994, it's not something new.

I certainly didn't mean to stir up anything. I was just trying to share a resource I found. Maybe it's better suited for people of faith, although they have no requirements like that.

[Hannah Bell]

53. I'm a "person of faith." I don't believe the gov't should subsidize empire-building for

persons of faith, especially covertly.

I don't believe it should subsidize their building projects or their attempts to privatize government functions, either.

[Donnachaidh]

57. so what's the alternative?

And I'm not asking to be argumentative --

But the way the situation is now, many folks don't HAVE the opportunity to walk away from programs like this - because there is NO alternative.

You may not like it, but with thousands unemployed or under-employed - this may be the only outlet they have. Some under-employed folks don't qualify for food stamps and other help. :shrug:

[Critters2]

61. Our community has a good food pantry. Angel Foods has just started here.

I don't see the need for the duplication of services.

[Hannah Bell]

67. The need is, I'm guessing, to get local markets to donate to angel food for pay

& tax writeoffs, rather than to local foodbank for just tax writeoffs -

take clientele from locals, & build the religious network of religious right "charity".

to be completely privatized at some future date.

if religious orgs offer jobs, people join religious orgs.

nice when the people are being systematically impoverished, to have religious networks to offer jobs & food & religious hope & local information-gathering to keep a lid on dissent.

[Hannah Bell]

64. there's obviously an alternative, which would be to do the same thing openly or through gov't.

if the alternative doesn't exist, it's because powers behind the scenes want to promote religion & fund religious jobs.

goes hand in hand with increasing numbers of poor, doesn't it. the opium of the people.

nevertheless, i call a spade what it is, not a "nice ministry". & people should know who they're buying from & what they're buying into & promoting.

poor folk supposedly "have no choice" but to buy walmart, either, & every time they do they make themselves poorer.

[eilen]

163. My friend is on full disability and qualifies for a whopping $18 a month

in food stamps. She is single, no children (rather, her children are grown up and on their own). This might be helpful for her as she is not political nor religious (her parents are). Thanks for the tip. I think there is a similar program at a senior center in B'ville .

[Critters2]

178. Most communities have food pantries that give food for free.

I've never lived in a place that didn't have. Food pantries are often used to supplement food stamps. No cost to the recipient and no religion.

[Critters2]

70. They only allow conservative Christian literature to be distributed.

They should not be receiving government assistance.

[WolverineDG]

93. Not at the church I got AFM from nt

[Hannah Bell]

134. The national site explicitly states that the magazine is in every box.

http://www.angelfoodministries.com/news/

“The Servant” magazine is included in each box of Angel Food.

From: The Servant - January 2009
By: Pastor Wes Wingo

"Love. It’s what we all want in our lives, right? Well, the Bible is God’s manual for love. When we follow His instructions, wonderful things will result."

[WolverineDG]

152. I don't recall getting anything objectionable in the box

and as someone else said, she just threw all that away anyway. No harm, no foul, & people get fed.

dg

[WolverineDG]

92. part & parcel of DU

someone will find something to be outraged about. I used AFM last year to get through a couple of tight months.

dg

[Hannah Bell]

136. AFM founder wingo & his brood (employees of afs)

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/georgia_good_hope_30641.asp?cycle=08

Wingo,Joseph Mr. Angel Food Ministries/Ceo $12,500 03/12/2007 P NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $3,600 06/16/2008 P LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $-1,300 06/16/2008 P LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $1,300 06/16/2008 G LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $1,000 03/20/2007 P LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/FOUNDER $1,300 06/10/2008 P CHAMBLISS FOR SENATE - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY $1,000 03/15/2007 P CHAMBLISS FOR SENATE - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY J ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/PASTOR & CEO $1,000 03/08/2007 P FRIENDS OF JIM INHOFE COMMITTEE - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY MR ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/CEO $250 03/26/2008 P GEORGIANS FOR ISAKSON - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY MR ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/CEO $500 03/30/2007 P GEORGIANS FOR ISAKSON - Republican

[WolverineDG]

154. So go start your own network

unless of course you'd rather just sit & whine about it all day long on DU since that doesn't require too much time & effort.

Besides which, you are going to have to prove the government money pays for the relgious stuff put in the box (& I bet you can't because it doesn't).
dg

[Critters2]

177. If the government funds pay for food, then they free up funds for the lit.

The government should not enable evangelism.

[WolverineDG]

182. Yes but the government money isn't being used for that purpose

jeezus, do you have no clue how government-funded programs operate? It isn't only this program that uses unrestricted funds for other purposes. Many other non-profits (including women's shelters) do the same thing. Should they also be shut down in order to satisfy your little temper tantrum?

dg

[Critters2]

187. Women's shelters are doing Christian evangelism?

Which women's shelters, exactly?

Look, the government is helping churches function as stores (they're not giving this food away), make a profit ($1 a box, when the church invested no funds is a profit), and evangelize. There's no way this doesn't violate the establishment clause. I don't want my tax dollars helping fundies evangelize. I'd rather that money went to food pantries that give food to the poor. What's so wrong about that?

[WolverineDG]

191. So start your own damn food ministry & apply for the same USDA grants & loans

Of course, that means you'd actually have to work instead of whine about it online.

Organizations receiving government funds can use unrestricted funds for things they can't use government money for. That includes women's shelters run by religious organizations & AFM.

dg

[Critters2]

194. My community has a food pantry, to which I donate generously.

AFM is siphoning off USDA funds that could be used to feed those in need without churches profiting from it. All of that food should go to food pantries which do not offer a kickback to religious organizations.

[WolverineDG]

198. Not all communities do

but yeah, go ahead & kill the AFM program just because it doesn't fit your narrow agenda. I'm sure those who benefit from it will thank you for your efforts in cutting them off from food.

dg

[arikara]

128. Sorry, my statement wasn't in any way meant as a slight

to your experience. I was just wondering if it could be the same group or have some affilitation but perhaps not. I'll have to do some checking. We re still unblessed with a very right wing neo-con government in BC and anything they are into pushing, I distrust.

Regardless of all that, its very nice and thoughtful that you took the time to share information that may help people. This place can seem pretty rough and tumble at times but don't let it bother you. Most isn't meant personally, and its so easy to misinterpret meanings and tone on message boards and emails.

Hugs

:hug:

[Hannah Bell]

52. Thank you for that information.

[Raksha]

86. I'm thinking about trying Angel Food Ministries.

I had not realized it was covertly funded by the government until I read some of the posts in this thread.

[Baby Snooks]

169. Who is being served by this?

It seems the ministry is being served. Not the people who are supposed to be served by the ministry. I really don't like the politics. Particularly the obvious fundamentalist Republican politics.

[Doremus]

195. Thank you for this information. I will never recommend them again.

I should have known there was a RW catch to it.

Who else but pukes would take previously-free government surplus foods and charge the poor for them, while building warehouses and other church infrastructure with OUR money?

It takes criminal minds to come up with this crap.

[Forkboy]

201. Hungry people don't, and won't, give a shit.

[Forkboy]

202. Ooops, replied to myself.

Which is good as I'm probably the only one who will listen to me (and even that might be asking a lot).

[Hannah Bell]

204. "I'm betting that political stance fell by the wayside toot sweet."

which is exactly why it's so disgusting. using the desperate to bust the constitution.

someone *chose* to fund this instead of neutral alternatives.

[Forkboy]

212. Sorry I switched my message as you were replying.

I reposted down below, if anyone wants to know what Hannah is replying to.

Anyways, I don't really disagree with you Hannah, but the everyday reality of being hungry and poor is far greater than the abstract concept of the separation of church and state...while you're in that position. That's why I say it's easy for us to point out how wrong that program may be, but I'm betting we each have full bellies while we do so.

You're looking at this from a standpoint of the Constitution, and I truly respect that. I'm looking at it from the hungry person's viewpoint. I'm just saying what it's like to be in that position, and how fast survival, for you or your family, takes immediate precedence over everything else. If this is the only way some people can get food then I say they do it. What's the option? Starving? A flawed program is better than nothing.

If people have other options it would be cool if they used them, but some people may not have those options. Yes, someone is taking advantage of the situation in a way I don't like. But people need to eat anyways. I just can't find any way around that, and they can't wait to eat until we fix the problem.

[Hannah Bell]

234. yes, desperate people do what they have to. no one's criticizing the

patrons for doing what they need to do. the patrons are paying full cost for this food. it's a glorified buying club.

but potential volunteers or patrons may choose to use other options where they exist.

& many may not be aware of the government $$ involved.

i think citizens should know how things work & what their govenment funds, & why.

[DoctorMyEyes]

256. WTF???

I think we all "get" what you've said for the thousandth time. Why don't you go bang your drum to someone who can actually *choose* to fund the "neutral alternatives"? In the meantime people are looking for that proverbial port in a storm. And despite what you think you're doing you're not helping.

[Hannah Bell]

265. knowing that this org receives gov't funds doesn't prevent anyone from using it.

so why don't you quit telling me what i should or shouldn't post.

[Hannah Bell]

207. by that token, if the gov't gives $ to the aryan nations, you'd have no objections

so long as they ran a food program.

no wonder the democratic party is in trouble.

[Forkboy]

217. If the Aryan nation was the only was your family could eat, would you take it or let them starve?

While you sort out the Democratic parties ideals, people are starving. Clearly, you aren't one of them.

[Hannah Bell]

229. i wouldn't let it get to that point, because i wouldn't let the government give $$ to the aryan

nations.

apparently you & others don't give a damn what *your* government does with tax money, even if it helps create the very "hungry" people you're so solicitous of.

[Forkboy]

236. Well it already is to that point, so it's too late. Not surprised you competely dodged the question.

[Hannah Bell]

239. the answer to the question is obvious. there are other buying clubs.

you seem to think only afm can run one.

increase funds to the ones that already exist to the degree you shut down funds to the ones that proseletize or want the gov to fund their buildings.

your mistaken assumption is that there is no current possible alternative. of course there is, there's just no current political will.

[Forkboy]

243. "you seem to think only afm can run one."

No, I don't, and I've said that I would prefer people use other options IF THEY ARE AVAILABLE. You seem to think every town has these services all set up and ready to go to replace this. But they don't, and what do you do to feed the people in the meantime while they wait for those programs to get going?

increase funds to the ones that already exist to the degree you shut down funds to the ones that proseletize or want the gov to fund their buildings.

Great. I love your ideas. How fast can you do this?

your mistaken assumption is that there is no current possible alternative.

Bullshit. I never stated anything like that. I have stated, over and over, that until your ideas are in place people need to eat. And I've stated, over and over, that IF IT'S THEIR ONLY OPTION they should use it. I didn't say it was the only viable answer.

[madrchsod]

22. i wondered if they were good....

i`m thinking of signing up my sister-in-law..

[TommyO]

26. They are good, don't listen to the nay-sayers and anti-Christian assholes here

Angel Food Ministries offers decent quality for a very reasonable price.

[Hannah Bell]

30. Paid for by the government & the recipients, not by the "ministry".

[TommyO]

38. Like I said in another post

if you have problems with AFM, create a workable alternate.

[Hannah Bell]

43. Joseph wingo, $12,500 to the republican national committee.

That's how he "created" this little scam.

The fascists "fed" people, too.

You like corruption & lies? I don't.

[Critters2]

45. My church, a Christian organization, doesn't support them,

because they insist on putting Conservative tracts in the grocery bags. We asked if we could put Progressive Christian tracts in. They said no. We support our community food pantry.

[hfojvt]

79. what would be the difference between progressive and conservative tracts?

Are the tracts about salvation, or about abortion? I'd like to see examples of the two types of tracts.

[Critters2]

81. Here's a description of what is put in the boxes, from their website:

Because Angel Food Ministries believes in sharing the Good News as well as demonstrating the goodness of God, “The Servant” magazine is included in each box of Angel Food. Interesting and encouraging articles, a prayer of salvation, dynamic testimonies, relevant ministry updates and much more are included in each issue.


We asked if we could include material from out denomination, the United Church of Christ. They were quite emphatic that their material be used.

[Bill McBlueState]

162. maybe you could cite examples of a conservative and a progressive Christian message

I think a lot of posters honestly don't understand the difference. People might "get it" better if they see what, specifically, AFM doesn't want people to hear.

[Rabrrrrrr]

283. Here's the difference between conservative and progressive messages:

The conservative will have shit like:

Only Christians go to Heaven, so you better become Christian
If you are a sinner, you go to hell, so you better love Jesus
Abortion and homosexuality are wrong
Roe V. Wade is a holocaust on children
Sex outside of marriage is evil
Abstinence is the only sex education a child needs
Homosexuals have an agenda to make America communist and Christianity illegal
I prayed to Jesus, and the next day I received $1 million!
America was founded to be a Christian nation
Waving the American flag or displaying the cross are basically the same thing, because America is Jesus' special nation!
The Pope is the anti-Christ
The NRA is good!
The ACLU is EVIL!!! (scary chord included)
Not being allowed to pray over the public loudspeaker system at a high school football game is "Denial of my right to freedom of religion and a sign that liberals want to make Christianity illegal" while at the same time, preventing the Buddhist students from gathering at a table during lunch hour is "protecting American values"
America is fighting God's war in Iraq
George Bush is a good Christian man, and Obama is a secret Muslim (or atheist, depending on the conservative church, I suppose)
Only Republicans are good Christians; and only good Christians are Republicans

What you will find a progressive tract:

Jesus loves you. Unconditionally.
Go do good works for people. Help out. Be kind. Be loving.
Be forgiving.
Be merciful.
Be tolerant.
Jesus said, "Let the children come to me!"
You don't have to leave your brain at the door when you come into our church
Everyone is welcome in the kingdom of heaven!
Gays are A-okay with Jesus
Abortion is unfortunate, but that's between a woman and God, not the state
Other countries are cool, too!
Foreigners are human beings.
Feeding people is important and good, but we also need to change the social and political structures that lead people into poverty


And so on.

What you WILL NOT find in the conservative tract is anything about Jesus' teachings, except his few words on hell and the end times, nor you will find anything about a generous God, a God of abundance, or a God that wants an end to poverty, injustice, war, and all those other bad things.

What you will not find in the progressive tract is an equating of America with God/Jesus, no triumphalism, no nationalism, and no condemnation of "the other".

[Donnachaidh]

59. it's certainly NOT anti-Christian to question this faith-based subsidy

Especially if they are tucking pamphlets into the boxes. That smacks of proselytizing, which shouldn't be DONE with government funding. Remember that little quirky thing about the separation of Church and State?

[onetiredmom]

32. Sorry it doesn't work for everyone.

It helped my family have more food than usual in the freezer this month and that's what I can judge it by.

[Lochloosa]

58. This can be a fun place sometimes.

:eyes:

Hang in there onetiredmom.

[Critters2]

63. Does your community not have a food pantry?

You know, where they only provide food, and don't waste money on Christian tracts?

[Fireweed247]

35. Thank you for this.

I am really shocked that this program is available. Unfortunately it is not available in Alaska but I am going to email the food banks and tell them about it just in case they don't know. The food bank in our town is at a Methodist church too, and often running short on food...I wish they'd start delivering to the villages who are hurting right now.

[Libertyfirst]

42. I don't give a damn how govt helps feed people as long as does it.

[Critters2]

66. You don't have a problem with the government doing evangelism for

churches? I do.

[MicaelS]

189. Tough shit....

People getting fed is one hell of a lot more important than you getting your political sensibilities offended.

[Hannah Bell]

210. the people getting fed are buying at wholesale. there's no need for church involvement or gov't

money going to churches.

[Critters2]

44. My church just decided not to support them, because they insist on

placing "tracts" in the bags of groceries. We don't think this is an appropriate venue for evangelism. We're strong supporters of our community's food pantry, though.

[Hannah Bell]

49. i have no problem with food pantries, i don't even have a problem with some funding

of religiously-sponsored food pantries.

i have a big problem when the gov't funding is hidden, when spokespeople handing out the food say "government has nothing to do with this", when gov't is giving building loans to the religious group, when gov't is helping the relgious group to construct a national network to privatize feeding programs to the tune of over $10 million.

i have a problem when head of said ministry is a big political donor.

[MilesColtrane]

72. My Mom bought a box of Angel Food from her Episcopal church.

There was no religious tract in the box, only a menu for next month.

[Critters2]

77. Then the church is violating Angel Food's rules.

To be a distribution site, they are required to put tracts in with the groceries.

[sandyj999]

157. You don't have to read them. n/t

[tammywammy]

56. That's good to know

Thanks for sharing.

[Gin]

62. thanks for the info...I am going to check it out......

gin

[earth mom]

71. If they are "non denominational" there should be NO religious info given out.

I'm really getting sick of people excusing the fundie nutcases in this country just because it helps themselves personally.

Talk about selling your soul to the devil. :eyes:

[Critters2]

76. They also pay churches to be distribution sites.

I found this at the FAQ:

What does it cost my church to sign up to become a host site?

There is a one time $50 application fee which covers all of your training materials. If for some reason your church is not approved you will be refunded this fee. Once you become a host site Angel Food Ministries donates $1 per regular unit to the host churches benevolent fund. Since its inception, Angel Food Ministries has contributed over $12 million into host benevolence funds.


If they are receiving government funding, they should STOP receiving it. NOW!!

[Hannah Bell]

82. worse than i thought. they're paying to recruit churches into their network.

using gov't funds & the $ from their foodbox patrons.

[Critters2]

83. Surely, Barry Lynn and his staff are aware of this.

I would hope.

[LostinVA]

80. See if there's a SHARE around you if you dislike the religious connection

The food quantity, quality, and price are very similar.

[Critters2]

84. SHARE is a good program. My church in Iowa was a SHARE site.

And no, we didn't put tracts in the boxes. Nor did SHARE pay us for the use of our building.

[LostinVA]

85. I've used them for some friends on Pine Ridge (Lakota Reservation)

There, the distribution site is at a municipal building, and what they get for the money is fantastic. You can even buy extra boxes and treats, including holiday dinners. Out there, they deliver to the homes.

[spoony]

87. No good deed shalt go unpunished at DU

Some people would, seriously, rather people not get the help they need than see them be helped by people they don't like or who aren't ideologically pure enough.

[RollWithIt]

89. Interesting isn't it, Let them eat dirt!

Ironic actually.

[RollWithIt]

88. There's a participating church just down the street from me, that's a lot of food for $30.00

Gonna try it out myself. Anything helps. I could care less if theres literature inside them.

[K Gardner]

103. I've been using them for months for produce.. no literature and no schemes. Good value, try it !

[onetiredmom]

90. I'd like to thank DU

for making me feel foolish for posting a personal story, when I said in the story that it was hard for me to go to a non-profit for help. I lurked on this site for years before finally getting the courage to join. Thanks for making my first thread so enjoyable. It really makes me want to rush back and post again.

Leaving work for the day, so enjoy your evening.

[WolverineDG]

94. don't let the idiots chase you off

AFM is a good program, but there are those on DU who just have to dump on this thread because they can. You could post about a program that gives away $1 million, no strings attached, & someone would crab about it.

:hug:

dg

[Hannah Bell]

143. right, it's not because govenment money's being used to fund religion & republicans,

it's just because some people like to "dump on threads".

no one made any comment about the poster at all. if the poster's upset because afm was criticized, she'd better not post on political boards.

[WolverineDG]

159. You apparently do nt

[Hannah Bell]

211. you apparently have a problem with political discussion on a political discussion board.

[WolverineDG]

219. No I have a problem with people being rude

and snotting off on a thread posted to share information that others find beneficial.

dg

[Hannah Bell]

223. there was no rudeness directed at other posters, but at religious orgs

being funded by government.

it's the supporters of that concept who are posting personal comments like "stfu," etc.

nor did anyone erase the information you find valuable, it's still right where it was for everyone to see.

you can't tolerate political discussion & difference on a political forum, go to a woodworking forum or something.

[WolverineDG]

233. Typical response

"I'm not being rude." Uh-huh.

dg

[Hannah Bell]

235. some people think "rudeness" = criticizing organizations they support.

i don't, especially when the criticism is on a political chatboard.

i tend to think of rudeness as:

telling someone to stfu
telling someone they support starving people
telling someone their only interest is in killing threads

i.e. comments directed specifically at the person & his personal character, integrity, motivations.

i'm not interested in that.

i'm interested in government not funding religious empire-building & privatization of government services.

[Sanctified]

96. Just do what I do and include them in your prayers.

It's really not worth getting upset over those who think no matter what you do you are wrong simply because of your religion.

[Hannah Bell]

144. & i'll include you in mine.

[Sanctified]

145. Thank you I appreciate it. n/t

[tammywammy]

98. Don't feel bad

It was a good post with good info. :hug:

[Lisa0825]

100. Don't feel bad.

I got into this same debate a few months back. For every issue up for discussion here, there are purists who will find something wrong with it.

I think AFM serves a great niche. I do not need to go to a food bank. I have a job. But I am also on a budget and if I can get a bargain on groceries for the mere act of throwing away some unwanted Bible tracts, then I'm happy to do so.

Most people in this thread appreciated your information, so don't let a few who strongly disagree dissuade you from posting.

:pals:

[sandyj999]

160. You are right.

No matter what is suggested there are people here that will find something wrong with it. I think it's a very unwelcoming place at times and you need to develop a thick skin.:fistbump:

[pengillian101]

101. Thanks onetiredmom for the info

Lots of folks will find your post helpful. (Ignore the negativity of some.)

Welcome to DU :hi:

[K Gardner]

102. TiredMom, HALT ! Please don't let the whiners run you off. Read this.....

I learned of AF Ministries from DU months ago and have been using it ever since - along with just about every member of my family. It's not just for people who are "in need". It is a good community resource for anyone - senior to single to household - who want to stretch their food dollar a little more. My SIL gets the family menu stuff and I go in with her and buy the fruit/vegetable boxes. It is a GREAT deal and we've met a huge number of very nice people at our pickup site, which is less than a mile from my house.

No one tries to convert us ! I don't think it's some fundie scheme. But the last time I and others posted anything positive about it, we got the same crap you got this time. So let me tell you this:

For every one snark that someone posted here, I guarantee you many more people actually went to the AF site, found a local market, and will be helped by it. Even more will pass the link onto friends who are desperately in need right now. In a forum like this, you must understand that the most outspoken people are going to p*** all over anything you post - many more are going to silently read it, take some notes, benefit from the advice and pass that along.

You've helped here today. Someone helped me with this info a few months ago. Thank you for posting this - please don't give up. ! :hug: :applause:

[Critters2]

110. It is a fundie scheme. One funded by tax dollars. nt

[WolverineDG]

114. Yeah, we heard you the first 1000 times

:eyes:

dg

[Critters2]

115. My congregation doesn't use taxpayer dollars to do evangelism.

I don't think anyone else should, either.

[WolverineDG]

116. Yeah we know

so you're going to do your best to kill a program that helps many people just as you've done your best to make the OP feel unwelcome. How Christian of you.

dg

[Hannah Bell]

135. The leader of AFS & his brood:

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/georgia_good_hope_30641.asp?cycle=08

Wingo,Joseph Mr. Angel Food Ministries/Ceo $12,500 03/12/2007 P NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $3,600 06/16/2008 P LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $-1,300 06/16/2008 P LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $1,300 06/16/2008 G LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $1,000 03/20/2007 P LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/FOUNDER $1,300 06/10/2008 P CHAMBLISS FOR SENATE - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY $1,000 03/15/2007 P CHAMBLISS FOR SENATE - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY J ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/PASTOR & CEO $1,000 03/08/2007 P FRIENDS OF JIM INHOFE COMMITTEE - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY MR ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/CEO $250 03/26/2008 P GEORGIANS FOR ISAKSON - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY MR ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/CEO $500 03/30/2007 P GEORGIANS FOR ISAKSON - Republican

[WolverineDG]

158. blah blah blah nt

[spoony]

242. You should check people out who work at soup kitchens, too

You know, make sure they're politically pure. And if they're dirty stinkin' pukes, then knock the ladle out of their stupid charitable hands and tell em to fuck off! We don't need people with different viewpoints trying to help people dammit!

:sarcasm:

[K Gardner]

176. STFU.

[Critters2]

183. Yeah. I keep yammering on about the separation of church and state,

and other progressive values. What a pain!

[MicaelS]

190. Any of your yammering feeding hungry people?

No, I didn't think so. :puke:

[Critters2]

192. Why yes, as a matter of fact. My congregation donated $1000 worth of

food just this past Sunday as part of our "Super Bowl of Caring" program to our local food pantry--which neither charges recipients nor evangelizes them. I donated two bags of groceries myself. I buy something to donate every time I do my grocery shopping. I volunteer two nights a month at the homeless shelter, and am available on an "as needed" basis at any time. I do that for free, and, because they get government funds, no evangelizing (though, apparently, that's negotiable). I'm also on a community committee working with FEMA to get funds and other assistance to flood victims here. And I sponsor an orphaned boy in Matamoros, Mexico. Among other things.

So, yeah. I am feeding the hungry. I can care about the poor AND the Constitution.

You?

[Lyric]

197. So that's the basis for violating the Constitution, now?

Fuck the First Amendment--break it all you want as long as you're feeding poor people?

What the HELL has happened to DU? Jesus.

Critters, you might as well stop arguing. There seems to be an enormous contingent of Machiavellian "ends justify the means" morons around here. You can't reason with the inherently unreasonable.

[Critters2]

262. True enough. nt

[Hannah Bell]

216. take it to "frugal living" if you can't tolerate political discussion.

[Hekate]

118. Thank you and God bless ("Twenty gods or none" as Tom Jefferson put it) for sharing this information

I am visiting the Angel Food site as I type this and it looks like such a worthy organization. I am so glad they made you feel welcome and provided for your needs affordably. :hug:

Sadly, there are none anywhere near me or I would make a direct donation. As it is, I'm overdue to donate to my local food bank (my one and only New Year's resolution is to send a monthly check) so I'm off to send something for both Jan. and Feb.

Dear OTM, please don't let the idiots get you down. Go down the list in this thread and put them all on Ignore, which you now can do because I have donated a DU Star in your name. Next to each username in posts is a series of icons, one of which is a head with a green + and another of which is a head with a red X. Click on the red X.

Sorry, but this made me mad. If I were in your circumstances it would be really hard to (a) seek help and (b) write about it. In fact 30 years ago I *was* in your circs and found no help to speak of. Non illegitimus carborundum.

Hang in there. You helped more people than you know today. :hug:

Hekate

[Lisa0825]

126. That was sweet of you :-)

:pals:

[shrike]

180. What a kind thing to do

I'm going to remember what you did here, and next time this happens will do it myself. Great response.

[Hekate]

232. I just hope OTM comes back and finds out how much support she really has...

I tried to PM her, but she doesn't accept PM's -- doubtless due to her computer being at work.

As for me ... :blush: Thanks.

Hekate

[DoctorMyEyes]

124. Don't let them get you down

Some of the responses here, I think, have been downright rude. I don't blame you for feeling offended. But, none of these people, for all their bitching and ideological purity put a meal on your table this month.

How the government funnels tax money through churches is open for debate, but accusing someone of "selling their soul" for a reasonably priced box of food that may or may not have a religious tract in it is looney.

I really appreciate that you posted about this program. I'd never heard of it and I do have a young friend with a part time job who struggles mightily with no family support to keep her head and the head of her little brother above water each and every month. This program will be very helpful to her. Right now, in the here and now. It will be very helpful to me too, as I won't have to worry so much for her or continue to embarrass her by finding ways to shove food off on her when she knows damn well things are becoming tight for my family too.

Anybody who wants to shit on that can go fuck themselves.

[Hannah Bell]

142. everything's ok if people are fed, right?

so you have no objection if this church contracts with afm at $1/box, partly funded by gov't, right?

http://amprom.org/

(hint: sandpoint, id)



"In Everson v. Board of Education (1947), the Supreme Court upheld a New Jersey statute funding student transportation to schools, whether parochial or not. Justice Hugo Black held,

The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the federal government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect "a wall of separation between church and State."

[WolverineDG]

155. So shut up & sue them already

:eyes:

dg

[MicaelS]

188. Yes that is absolutely correct.

Putting food in people's bellies is one hell of a lot more important than Separation of Church and State or any other political or religious issue. You're just pissed because you were not allowed to put YOUR tracts in their boxes of food.

[Critters2]

193. They're not giving food away. They're seling it. At a profit. nt

[a la izquierda]

130. Ah, don't let some folks get you down.

I'm a dyed in the wool leftist, and I don't care much for organized religion and our government's love affair with all things God lately. That being said, you provided valuable information that probably could help an awful lot of people on here and it's really great that you did that by giving so freely of your own personal business. I don't post much anymore...mostly because nowadays, people just love to stir up shit (pardon my French). If I want mental masturbation, I'll go read the 50 books I should be reading for my dissertation.

Chin up, onetiredmom. Don't give up, there are many, many great people on here.

[sufrommich]

184. Please ignore the assholes, my sister and her husband have

fallen on hard times,with her out of work and her husband on the verge of layoff. I checked the site and they have a distribution center in their town.They have 2 children to feed and stretching the grocery bill has become almost impossible. I wouldn't have ever known about this source for cheap groceries if not for your post and I don't give a flying f--k whose running it. I'll pass the info on to my sister,thanks for sharing it.

[The Hope Mobile]

186. Ignore the idiots. It was good and valuable information.

I think a lot of people will benefit from it. My sister uses it and this gives me even more reason to check it out because we can definitely use the help sometimes. In fact, I'm going in this week. Thanks!:hi: :hug:

[Midlodemocrat]

203. Don't let the whiners chase you off.

There is always someone here ready to pounce and bitch about something someone else posts.

As for me, I'm sorry you are having a hard time, but I'm glad you found AFM. I seriously doubt that the hungry people who are utilizing this great service give a rat's fucking ass about their politics.

DU never disappoints.

[readmoreoften]

95. K & R

[michaz]

104. This person came on and posted to offer someone that might need

some help, an option. What happens here is something you can count on. There is always someone to make somebody who wants to help feel like crap and offer "their" views about why it is all wrong. For just once could we just let it go and let someone make up their own damn mind? Just because it doesn't work for some, doesn't mean it won't work for others.

[Hannah Bell]

139. Nothing i said prevents anyone from making up their own mind. afm is a

religious food-buying coop, run by big republican donors, that's received at least 6 million in goverment funds, + a government loan to build a distribution warehouse, & it distributes religious material with its charity. They charge recipients wholesale for the food & pay churches $1 a box to distribute it.

If you think that's a good use of government money, fine. I don't.

& since site promoters on the internet often advertise the program as independent of government, the information is correction to misinformation.

"Angel Food Ministries: Is this a government operation? No, Angel Food Ministries is a Christian-based service in Georgia that ships thousands of boxes of food..."

www.lifewaylink.com/templates/System/details.asp?id=19610&PID=352825

http://www.batonrougetoday.com/forum/general-chit-chat/766-angel-food-ministries-prairieville.html

[calimary]

111. Welcome to DU! Glad you're here! Thanks for the info.

It's sweet of you to share this.

Thank goodness we still have SOME safety net.

THIS, TOO, is Homeland Security. Amazing how few people get that. I would imagine that when you're running so short month-to-month because you've been laid off and you have children to feed and medical bills to pay and rent or house payment to cover (the lucky ones anyway) in the sucky economy bush and his pirate pals left us that you're moved to avail yourself of helping hands like these, some so-called terrorist thousands of miles away is probably the LEAST of your fears.

[AzDar]

117. K & R

:kick:

[Mnemosyne]

119. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

Welcome to DU, onetiredmom! :hi:

Sorry for the snotty posters! :hug:

[madfloridian]

121. Please don't let people here discourage you.

I was very impressed by that link, and I shared with someone I know who is recently widowed and needing ideas to get by.

[Hannah Bell]

137. The founder & family: the town his church is in has 11,000 people. How do you think his org got

into 35 states?

Big money connections.


http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/ge...

Wingo,Joseph Mr. Angel Food Ministries/Ceo $12,500 03/12/2007 P NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $3,600 06/16/2008 P LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $-1,300 06/16/2008 P LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $1,300 06/16/2008 G LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

Wingo, W. Joseph Emmanuel Praise Church/Minister $1,000 03/20/2007 P LINDER FOR CONGRESS - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/FOUNDER $1,300 06/10/2008 P CHAMBLISS FOR SENATE - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY $1,000 03/15/2007 P CHAMBLISS FOR SENATE - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY J ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/PASTOR & CEO $1,000 03/08/2007 P FRIENDS OF JIM INHOFE COMMITTEE - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY MR ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/CEO $250 03/26/2008 P GEORGIANS FOR ISAKSON - Republican

WINGO, WESLEY MR ANGEL FOOD MINISTRIES/CEO $500 03/30/2007 P GEORGIANS FOR ISAKSON - Republican

[WolverineDG]

151. Still nothing stopping you froms starting your own

but it's much less effort to whine about AFM....

dg

[Hannah Bell]

226. your response is nonsensical. "starting my own" would not prevent federal

funds going to afm, churches, & building church-owned properties.

this is what i object to, & even if some are ready to trash constitutional principle to get wholesale prices on food someone else picked for them, i'm not.

this is a political discussion board. your comments ("whine") etc. are increasingly personal.

probably cause that's all you got. the facts are posted on their website & usda for anyone to check out.

[cynatnite]

122. We've used them a few times when it got bad...

The people that work there are fabulous. They help so much and they don't look down on anyone at all. I'll never say an unkind word about them.

[pengillian101]

123. Just cross-posted this to the Frugal Group at DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=353x2444

This group will certainly appreciate your posting. Thanks again :-)

[wildflowergardener]

127. Thanks

Thanks for posting this - I'd never heard of them.

[blonndee]

129. Thanks for posting this.

I had heard of this but had forgotten about it. I'm going to see if I can get in on the next order. Things have been tight but are getting tighter. I've run out of money before month for about the last four months and there's no end in sight. So thanks for the reminder. Every little bit will help. :)

[Kablooie]

146. And they serve lasagna and buttery cookies.

[Adsos Letter]

147. It seems pretty straightforward to me...if they are feeding the poor and needy...

with public funds, then there should be no need to include evangelistic material of any kind, conservative, liberal, or otherwise.

The idea is to supply food with public funds...leave the tracts/magazines out, and be satisfied with what the program is supposed to be about: feeding people who need the help. That is the point, isn't it?

Besides, the money they spend to produce the evangelistic material can be used to provide more food.

It really seems like a very simple solution, and one that avoids any Constitutional entanglements regarding Church/State separation.

[Baby Snooks]

174. How are they feeding the poor and needy?

I am poor and needy at the moment. And don't have $30. So they aren't serving me. And if I had the $30, I'd be at Kroger's. Probably buying far better food to be honest. I don;t really see where they are serving the poor and needy. At all.

My impression of this is they are feeding OFF the poor and needy. Thanks but no thanks.

[Joe Chi Minh]

200. I think it unlikely they would refuse you a free pack if you told them you didn't have the $30.

But that's not the point is it? "Bon appetit" at Krogers when you eat there.

[Hannah Bell]

222. i think it likely they would, because someone would have to pay for it.

they sell the boxes, & they have to send the sales money back to afm headquarters, less $1/box (their cut).

so if they hand out a free box, that means the site has to pay for it.

[Joe Chi Minh]

261. That wouldn't necessarily be a problem for Christians, on an occasional

basis. If there were five or six people running the outlet, they might be able to contribut 5 or 6 dollars, each, if the occasion arose. But don't people get a welfare payment that would cover that?

[DollyM]

275. They give away food too if you don't have the money!

My husband helped last time with the distribution since we are both unemployed and broke and have free time, they gave him a box of food for helping. They have extra sometimes when people don't pick it up and sometimes they buy extra to give out for this purpose. If you are truly needy and don't have the money, just ask, I am sure they would give you a box of food.
If you have never tried it don't knock it. I LOVE their meat selections, they put STEAK in your box, and I don't mean seconds of fatty, full of gristle meat, it is THE BEST STEAK I have ever had in my life. It melts in your mouth. I wouldn't buy meat at Krogers if I had too because they are not going to have the quality that Angel Food gives you in meat.
I also always read the Servant magazine, I find it very encouraging which we very much need right now.

[orleans]

148. bookmarking. k&r n/t

[Kindigger]

153. nm

[sandyj999]

156. Thanks for Posting about them.

I was going to do it and you did it first which is a good thing. I know of a couple of people that go to get their food from them and they are not made to feel embarrassed at all. There are a lot of churches handling this is the metro Detroit area. There are very few of us that have not needed a little help at some time in their life.

[eilen]

164. We have a local organic farm that participates with the CSA

and if you can't come up with the deposit to join the CSA (which can be from $250 and up), you can purchase weekly boxes from the farm for about $40 that gives a weeks worth of organic veggies and usually some extras when they are in season. It is good for the Spring, Summer and Fall--but would probably need to be supplemented in the Winter. You should check and see if there is a program similar in your area. You could alternate boxes and parlay that into a healthy diet.

[bread_and_roses]

165. Criticiizing gov't funding of AFM is not the same as criticizing someone who buys the food

When people struggle to buy food, they do what is necessary and works for them to stay fed. That is a completely seperate issue from how government funds are used, or the merits of the organization itself.

Poor and low-income people around here shop at WalMart, if they can get there (need a car). Yes, it is against their long-term interest, but hunger is today. And they are not the architects of the pro-corporate labor laws and "free-trade" and tax breaks that allow WalMart to exploit workers all over the world. The responsibility for WalMart's abuses lies squarely with the lawmakers who make it possible.

That people use AFM ministry distribution because it works for them is one thing. That the government subsidizes their evangelizing, with money that then helps them to support the Christo-Fascists enablers is another. The government has funded church-run social service programs for a long time, but there used to be rules about how the money is used that prohibited evangelizing or political activity with those $$.

Those supporting the continued funding of this organization as it is currently provided, allowing them to prosletize are supporting Theocracy, plain and simple. If they want to evangelize, let them support themselves - we'll see real quick how pure their committment to the poor is if they have to pay themselves for their tracts.

And the only alternative is not hunger. There are plenty of alternatives - from increasing food stamp eligibility and grants to people starting their own food co-ops (as many, many did in the '60s and '70s), to a similar program run by secular organizations. Not to mention addressing the root problem, which is the low-wages stagnant for thirty years or so now.

Our government has no business funding evangleizing - and that IS certainly my and all our business since "our' government is using our money.

[Hannah Bell]

228. thank you. & the gov has no business giving churches loans to build property,

or to run food stamp sites.

especially when it's *cutting* state workers who formerly ran such things.

maybe if people had the decent jobs being cut, they wouldn't need to buy preselected wholesale "charity" foodbaskets.

[Bunkie0913]

166. Sounds like a great program!

Thanks for sharing this helpful information. I've never heard of this organization. Went to their website and there are several distribution centers in my rural area. I'm going to place an order and check it out. Looks like a good bit of food for not much money. We probably won't use it all but there are certainly friends and family who will share in the bounty.

[bread_and_roses]

167. Why would anyone here donate $ to an organization that will turn around and donate it to RW

nutcase Republicans who are fighting every piece of legislation that will actually help the poor and low income workers, like, for a big example, the Employee Free Choice Act, restraints on out-sourcing, adequate safety-nets, increasing the minimum wage and unemployment benefits?

That low-income people struggling to buy enough food use the organization is one thing - who can blame people for doing what they have to do when our lawmakers have abandoned the poor and workers to the mercy of rapacious Free-Marketeers for thirty years?

But to donate to an organization supporting the very electeds who fight to keep people in such subservience and need? That makes no sense, and supports the very policies that have put us in this awful situation.

[Lars39]

179. People are forgetting what lttle social safety nets the US did have at one time.

Now we're supposed to be grateful the poor can buy food from a church, instead of actually getting some of the same food free, or sufficient food stamps to actually last until the end of the month. AFM is privatizing government services, plain and simple.

[Hannah Bell]

208. thank you. i can't believe the "democrats" who are ok with this kind of crap.

[Forkboy]

218. I can't believe some "Democrats" have no problem with families going hungry.

[Lars39]

221. I don't expect people suffering to rely on whatever faith-based program

happens to be cobbled together for an area. We need to strengthen the safty net, not divert funds and resources away from government programs that need beefing up.

[Forkboy]

224. How do you feed them in the meantime while that safety net gets strengthened?

I don't like this program either. But what if it's the only option some people have?

For the sake of argument, let's say we stop this program next week. In those places where people relied on this to eat, how will you feed those people? I don't mean passing bills and strengthening the safety net (things I fully agree on), but how will you feed them within the next 24-48 hours? Because they can't wait for legislation to pass in order to eat. :shrug:

[Lars39]

227. Upping the food stamp allotment would be a start....fully funding Meals on Wheels,

Vamping up the distribution centers for free food. Extending welfare benefits...there's lots that could be done and will have to be done to keep people from starving.

[Forkboy]

237. But can you do that within a day or two?

That would take a lot of time to implement, even under the best of circumstances.

[Hannah Bell]

269. about as long as it takes to give the money to afm.

[Hannah Bell]

230. how do you think this program expanded into 35 states?

government $$$$.

if it's the only option some folks have, it's because of government assistance.

it would take a month to set up the same thing (wholesale food-buying) through existing neutral sites. in fact, such programs already exist.

[Forkboy]

238. Well, let's work on setting those up. I'm the meantime, a month would be a long time to go hungry.

Help for the poor in this country sucks. This is far from ideal. But again, until your ideas are in place, people need to eat. This isn't the best way, but it's one way.

[Hannah Bell]

241. to the extent they get federal funds, give the funds to others who do the same thing,

without building church warehouses or printing religious tracts - which are NUMEROUS. presto, same amount of food going out - or, ahem, being *sold* at wholesale price.

afm can continue its good works through its own funding sources, no objections from this quarter.

there's no big roadblock like you make out.

[Hannah Bell]

231. i can't believe the "democrats" who think funding churches is the only way to prevent folks

from going hungry.

or the ones who think opposing gov't funding of religion equals "being ok with families going hungry".

or the ones who think selling preselected groceries to poor people at wholesale prices is such an unreplicable idea they're willing to trash the constitution.

[Forkboy]

240. Funny how someone misinterpreting your view pisses you off, but you do it through the thread.

Once again (how many times does this make it now?), until your ideas are implemented people need to eat. I said in another post (that you replied to even) that if people had other options they should use them. So this shit here...

i can't believe the "democrats" who think funding churches is the only way to prevent folks from going hungry.

..is pulled right out of your ass. There are other ways, and no one is against them, but those options don't exist everywhere. Where other options don't exist and this one does people should use it.

Your "more Democrat than thou" stuff if a simpleton's argument, and you don't even have the guts to answer what the fuck YOU would do if you needed food for you or your family and this was your only choice. "I wouldn't let it come to that" is a chickenshit answer because you know you'd take the food to feed your family wherever you could get it. But you can't admit that without your act falling apart.

See you in the foodline.

[Hannah Bell]

268. if those options don't exist in places where tax money is being used to fund afm,

it's because someone in gov't decided to fund afm instead of an alternative, of which there are many.

The "foodline"? afg charges wholesale. i'll go direct to the distributors if i have the money to pay wholesale.

Your premise is that if afm weren't doing it with 7 million+ of government $, it wouldn't get done. your premise is wrong.

[bread_and_roses]

264. This progressive person (not a D) opposes Gov't $ for AFM and has a big problem with hunger in US

- hunger that is completely avoidable, and is a result of politics, not food supply. Charity is not the answer - real jobs with real wages and an adequate safety system are needed - but since we dont'have those, I quarell with no one who submits to prayers in exchange for some soup: people do what they have to do to eat. But I greatly object to the government funding religion, and don't understand why some here just don't get that? Do you really think it is OK for tax $$ to fund religion? What about the Constitution?

There are other ways - even other charitable ways - to make sure that people are fed. Which is not to say - again, and I think it is so of others here criticizing AFM as well - that I think in any way ill of any person in need who uses AFM or any other means available to them to feed themselves and their family.

edit for omitted word

[county worker]

209. Why donate to a someone on the street because you know they will just buy booze!

I didn't ask them who they contribute too. I wanted to help buy food for the needy.

[Lars39]

214. I wouldn't begrudge anyone medically necessary alcohol.

Reality of addiction.

[Blue Diadem]

170. Happy to K & R this thread.

Thanks for posting this onetiredmom. It's always good, especially in these times to post something that will help people out.

45 rec's...and the greatest page for your first thread. :toast:

[w8liftinglady]

172. Many people in my town use this...it is a life-saver

Don't let people discourage you.This has helped a lot of people here afford groceries...people who fall through the cracks.Their meals are nutritious.I has multiple patient(and co-workers) families who have benefited from them.Thank you for posting their web address.As times get rougher,we all may need these resources.

[The Hope Mobile]

185. My sister has used them and strongly recommends them.

It has been a tremendous help to her and her 3 kids.

[GinaMaria]

196. This is great info... bookmarking

[Forkboy]

205. Good info.

To the people against this, have you ever been that hungry, and not had any idea where your next meal might come from? If so, when you were in that position, when faced with food or the issue of separation of church and state, which did you choose? I'm betting that political stance fell by the wayside toot sweet. If you haven't been in that position then you have zero right to tell anyone how and where they should get food. If this programs feeds them then I hope they take full advantage of it.

The program is far from perfect, but unless you've been the one without food you really don't know what it's like. It's very easy to say these groups should do this and should do that (I don't even disagree), but when you need food that argument is pretty pointless.

If you guys are so sure this program is a violation of church and state then report them. Being assholes on a DU thread really doesn't help you and the people who are hungry, and it doesn't hurt this program at all. If they're that bad THAT should be your goal.

[marketcrazy1]

213. onetiredmom:: thanks for this post..

I will be trying them out for my fixed (low) income mom, as well as several hurting friends... they say they accept EBT.. that will help one friend i know spend her 55 dollar a month food stamp allowance...!!!! ( not complaining/glad she has it )

[uppityperson]

220. I wish they were in my state also.eom

[trueblue2007]

225. I WISH they were in OREGON or SOUTHERN WASHINGTON

[Hannah Bell]

272. it's a food-buying club. start one. maybe you, too, can get 7 million in gov't funding.

http://www.komonews.com/news/26935719.html

[spoony]

244. To summarise this thread, the people who've used them appreciate them

And the litmus-paper police hate them. Hmm, whose opinion to take with greater weight, the people they've helped or those who would rather the hungry wait for something more politically advantageous...

[Lyric]

245. So the Constitution is a litmus-paper to you?

How sad.

[spoony]

247. No, what's sad is people starving and idiots preferring that to

the actions of this group. Not only are arguments that this is "unConstitutional" highly debatable, they're also specious smokescreens for simple dislike of "fundies" (which doesn't match the description of people who've dealt with them, but whatever).

[Lyric]

249. False dilemma much?

It doesn't HAVE to be EITHER a violation of the 1st Amendment OR starvation. There are other alternatives. They could sell the food without the proselytizing. All that needs to happen is for the USDA to step in and say, "Hey--that's not cool. Be as charitable as you wish, but if you're pushing religion, do it with food that's purchased with your OWN dollars--not American taxpayer dollars."

What's the difference between this, and forcing welfare recipients to agree to go to a church service in order to get their assistance? Would you support THAT?

[spoony]

251. You really DO think that's the same, don't you?

Now THAT'S sad. For one thing, a few posts in this thread have said they've NOT encountered any proselytising. Secondly, putting a tract in a bag requires the recipient to do NOTHING. They don't have to read it, or even look at it, so how you could compare it to "forcing" people "to go to a church service" (which the original SA did, in Victorian England) is just more disconnected noise masquerading as rational argument.

That said, it'll be fun on DU if hospitals become part of a national health service and all of a sudden every "St." is considered a retroactive assault on the sanctity of that slave-loving freedom parchment you all worship. Not me, because I know that even after 8 years of REAL abuse, the Constitution is today more "Constitutional" in the way its concepts match its practices than ever in the country's history. But, by all means, keep flailing.

[Lyric]

253. Ahhh. So the Constitution is a "slave-loving freedom parchment."

Gotcha. At first I thought you were misinformed and mouthy, but now I realize that you're just incredibly stupid.

Carry on, then.

:patriot:

[spoony]

254. See, Americans aren't taught their own dirty history

If you don't know that the Constitution was originally as hypocritical as its authors, then you've never learned anything. It's only worth anything because centuries of people have crusaded to make it stand for what it was said to stand for. No one in their right mind can deny that.

Edit: Your history lesson is over for the day, back to the topic of the thread.

[IGotAName]

284. It's not debatable that it's unconstitutional but it's not debatable that

people need to eat either.

My two cents' worth.

[DollyM]

277. AMEN!

eom

[spoony]

248. Up next: a shocking expose of Meals on Wheels

Did you know that some of their volunteers voted for Bush? Get out the rocket launchers! Those people don't need food contaminated with icky political opponent germs!

[Lyric]

250. Yawn.

Idiotic comparison. You let me know when a federally-funded Meals on Wheels program requires elderly people to listen to/read a sermon before getting their food, k?

[spoony]

252. And you tell me when these recipients have to do any of those things, k?

[DoctorMyEyes]

255. No one here who has posted their own personal experiene

have reported anything anywhere near being required to "listen to/read a sermon before getting their food".


So far no one who has actually USED the program has even reported receiving the religious tracts in the box. In fact - everyone who has USED the program says they were treated kindly and respectfully.

[WolverineDG]

257. Yes, but we don't know anything

I posted my own experiences & was called a liar by someone who has never used AFM & was quoting something from their website to suit their own personal vendetta.

dg

[DoctorMyEyes]

258. I thank you

the OP and the other posters who related their own personal experiences with AFM. If this program helps my friend get a decent meal instead of a "wish sandwich" or ramen noodles between paydays I'll be forever grateful.

[WolverineDG]

263. It will

I still have stuff in my freezer that I haven't used yet. It's nice to know that the program is still available here if I need it again. :)

dg

[Hannah Bell]

266. link to the post where someone "calls you a liar"?

[DoctorMyEyes]

270. What is your problem?

Wolverine doesn't owe you a link. If you can't remember what you and your tag team partner posted to him/her you should take the time to go back and read it for yourself.

[Hannah Bell]

271. The poster said someone called him a liar. He made a claim, if it's true he should be

able to back it up. I know *I* didn't call him a liar, & I don't remember anyone else doing so, so I'm waiting for the evidence.

[Hekate]

273. SO THE FIST-FIGHT OF THE IDEOLOGUES CONTINUES & A SWEET WOMAN HAS BEEN CHASED AWAY

At times like this I feel embarrassed to be a DUer.

Hekate

[WolverineDG]

282. I know, it's sad

and what's even worse, the bullies don't even care.

dg

[Bunny]

274. Okay, I'm late in this thread and by now nobody cares, but I priced the items on the

regular box menu, plus a couple of the "specials" at my local supermarket (it's a regional chain called Giant Eagle).


The 'REGULAR BOX' contains these things and costs you $30.00 The retail price of these items at my local supermarket totalled approximately $75 + whatever the dessert would cost. (The menu doesn't specify what the dessert is so I couldn't price it).

1.5 lb. Sirloin Strip Steaks (4 x 6 oz.)

2 lb. Tray Pack Chicken Breast

1 lb. Boneless Pork Chops

2 lb. Breaded Chicken Nuggets

28 oz. Salisbury Steak Entrée

12 oz. Sliced Bacon

1 lb. All-Meat Hot Dog

1 lb. Stir Fry (Broccoli, Red Peppers & Onions)

1 lb. Carrots

8 oz. Breakfast Cereal

32 oz. 2% Shelf Stable Milk

35 oz. Crinkle-Cut Fries

7.25 oz. Mac ‘n Cheese

1 lb. Rice

1 lb. Bean Soup Mix

Dozen Eggs

Dessert


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**One or More Specials Below Available Only with the Purchase of One or More of the Boxes Above**

FEBRUARY SPECIAL #5
Fresh Fruit and Veggie Box $21.00 This would come to around $31.00 at my store.

3 lb. No. 1 Premium Idaho Baking Potatoes
3 lb. No. 1 Premium North Carolina Sweet Potatoes
2 lb. No. 1 Premium New Crop Western Grown Yellow Onions
9 oz. California Premium Raisins
1 lb. Premium California Grown Carrots
1 head Premium Fresh Green Cabbage
3 lb. New Crop Tree-Ripened Red Delicious Apples
2 each Premium Washington State Anjou Pears
1 each Premium Golden Sweet Pineapple
3 lb. New Crop Premium Florida Tree-Ripened Valencia Oranges

FEBRUARY SPECIAL #6
Tangerine Box $15.00 This would cost about $ 28.00 at my store.

2/5 Bushel New Crop Florida Tree-Ripened Honey Tangerines (approximately 20-21 pounds or 70-75 tangerines)



I am no fan of the government mixing with religion, but I have no problem with people feeding their families through this program. The savings can be pretty significant.

[DollyM]

276. Thanks for doing this!

We are pretty much living out of what we get from Angel Food Ministries. I like being able to pay something for our food, it gives us some dignity and it is good food, not the seconds and cast-offs that end up in the food pantries. I wish they would add a Dairy Pack though, I need to write and suggest that. The milk is a big help as milk is so expensive anymore. I would love to see an add on with milk and a cheese selection.

[Bunny]

279. You're welcome. I think this is a great deal for many families.

If you buy the regular box + the fresh fruit and veggie box, you're spending $51.00 and getting a LOT of food. I like the freshness and variety of it, too.

As far as dairy goes, whatever happened to Government Cheese? That stuff was good! I wonder if they could add it to their regular box? If they offer eggs, I don't see why they couldn't manage cheese.

[TK421]

278. I found out there is a church about two blocks away from my apartment

that is a pickup site for AFM...and there are some very low-income people in this town. If it helps them survive, good for them. I looked at the menu...certainly doesn't seem like crap, so that is a good thing. I believe thirty bucks for a box of that stuff would be a great help to many people here and several actually come to mind!

[DollyM]

280. You don't have to be low income to use AFM . . .

That's the beauty of it, people who have money use it also because it is just a wise use of their resources and the money goes back into funding more benevolent projects in the community since the sponsoring organization gets $1.00 a box back to use for benevolence programs. It is a brilliant idea and if you think about it, socialism at it's best! (Yes, Jesus was a socialist and a Democrat in my opinion! He said that true religion is that which cares for the widows and the orphans. How can anyone contest that?)

[TK421]

281. Oh, I know...I'm low income myself ( or at least I THINK I am )

but I know people around here who have kids that bag groceries part-time and cashier at Wal-Mart to just get by. I may even look into this, who knows? Shit, for thirty dollars for everything you get on that menu? I could easily spend double at any supermarket no matter what their specials were that week. When you take into account my bills ( over half of my monthly income ) and not including food cost, that is a tremendous help.

I really hope the OP didn't leave because of this

[onetiredmom]

286. Oh my, all these posts!!!!!!!

Whewww, I really am onetiredmom after reading the comments on this thread!! I went away so I could gain some perspective, and then work got really busy. So I’m back to address some questions and comments.

First and foremost, I want to thank Hekate for your kindness in donating a DU star in my name. What a nice surprise and a balm to my shell-shocked soul. I’m sorry you couldn't’t PM me to let me know. I didn’t really know what that was, but I’ve gone in and reset my preferences so I can now receive them.

I intended my post to be informational, so I was really taken aback when I felt it was hijacked and turned into a yelling match between the “yes they do” and “no they don’t” crowd. Some facts were assumed strictly from reading the AFM website. The dreaded AFM magazine that was handed to me as I left the building contained a couple of faith-type articles discussing not being discouraged, there are people who love you and want to help, etc. It also had recipes, stories about people who have used AFM, a calendar and menu for the coming month, and contact information. As I stated before, they nicely asked if I would like to submit a prayer request and I did (for a gracious, grateful and unified family during these upside-down times), but put no personal contact information on it. There was not any proselytizing or coercion, I felt no pressure. I could have easily declined the magazine; I didn’t have to take it. So I think some of you have a misconception of how the distribution works. Since each individual distribution place handles and takes care of the particulars, someone else’s experience might differ some, so I can only address the site I went to.

One commenter asked why I didn’t go to a food bank. I didn’t want to. I left the food bank for those who really have no resources. I’m not in dire straits and I felt more invested in the process by being able to pay something. Someone commented on having a sense of dignity by being able to pay. Isn’t it nice for people to have a resource that leaves them with some dignity? Like I said in my first post, I was so afraid of being embarrassed by walking through those doors, but I was not.

I understand that some, like the very vocal Hannah Bell, are very strict separationist concerning state and church. IMHO, I think they can be of mutual benefit to each other. Hannah and others were upset with the $1 a box payment to the church. They aren’t building huge, palatial church buildings with that $1. I’m guessing the process takes at least 4 hours start to finish. Possibly more if they prepare the night before. So for that dollar, the government is getting: the building which is already built and doesn’t have to be maintained by the gov’t; the electricity for the lights, the heating to make the space comfortable; paper and copying of the order forms, food station signs, etc.; the boxes (and packing tape to prepare the boxes) that we were handed to put our food in; the coffee that was offered me; and at the very least, 20 volunteers who gave, let’s say, 4 hours. That’s 20 vols x 4 hrs x $8.00/hr = $640.00 free labor. I would say the gov’t is getting a heck of a deal for that $1 a box.

The gov’t cannot do everything for us; it’s just not feasible or possible. Nor do I want them to. I would like to see some type of balanced cooperation between gov’t and church. The churches have the buildings, the parking lots and ample parking, the electricity and HVAC, unlimited volunteers who want to give their time, muscle, money and compassion. That they choose to use those talents through the church shouldn’t be a detriment to them. I haven’t ever really stopped to think how something like that would work so I can’t be more specific with details. But I do believe that a compromise could be worked out if both sides would be open and flexible. The poor are always going to be among us, and it would be to everyone’s advantage to use all possible resources.

Well, those are my thoughts on this, my first foray into posting a thread. I am very glad that many commenters said the information helped them or someone they know and that was my original and only intent. I will know from now on that once I press that “post” button, the thread is no longer mine!

Happy weekend and thanks for the DU education!!!!!
onetiredmom :)

P.S. Wow, what a difference having a star makes. NO ADS!!!!!!!!

[onetiredmom]

287. I tried to edit the previous post but couldn't.

I also meant to say thanks to the many other kind, supportive people who wrote on this thread. I'll try to send you a PM and thank you personally, now that I know how to do it. And look - my browser at home is working. Yeah!

onetiredmom