Is the term "gangbanger" racist?

[billbuckhead]

Poll question: Is the term "gangbanger" racist?

I'm constantly called a racist by some of the gun enthusiasts on DU because I'm for much stronger gun regulations but many of these same people use the term "gangerbanger" which is de facto just a substitute or code for other more politically odious terms. It's very important to the political interests of the gun lobby and many other reichwingers that these victims of America are minimized as human beings and yet demonized as "predators", hence this derogatory term, "gangbangers" Agree or disagree?

[whistle]

1. Wide number of uses according to the Urban Dictionary

<snip>
1. gang banger 96 up, 27 down

Someone who is a gang member

"Yo this guy is a gangbanger."


2. gang banger 47 up, 48 down

some one who bangs(kills) gangster's

That fool over there killed someone from the crips, he's a gangbanger

by ice99 Feb 22, 2005 email it
3. gang banger 43 up, 52 down

1. someone engages in group sex, preforming it on an individual, and not on everyone.

yo let's you, me, and my boys go hit this broad off? nah, i ain't no gang banger

by oba Pittsburgh, pa Aug 9, 2005 email it
4. gang banger 11 up, 64 down

a hoodlum, who gang bangs and who is in a gang and has shot more than 1 gang banger

ya foo look at the black gang banger, aka DANE

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gang+banger

[billbuckhead]

3. Name one famous white "gangbanger"?

[MnFats]

11. "Vanilla Ice?"

Sorry, just kidding.

[-..__...]

15. I told the world I was stabbed in the butt...

but it was a toilet paper cut!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acb5205wCS8

:smoke:

[muntrv]

19. The aryan brotherhood, the nazi lowriders.

[Laughing Mirror]

55. George W. Bush

Dick Cheney.

Voilà. There's two.

[Clark2008]

63. No - Laura Bush. Remember?

Taking on gang life will be one part of a broader outreach to at-risk youth, which involves parents and pastors, coaches and community leaders, in programs ranging from literacy to sports. And I am proud that the leader of this nationwide effort will be our First Lady, Laura Bush. (Applause.)

SOTU Speech February 2005: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/02/20050202-11.html

And she did soooooo much, let me tell you. :eyes:

[ocdem]

17. In one of Woodruff's books

I believe it was titled "Legacy" about the lingering after affects of Watergate on today's presidencies he briefly speaks about the Bush campaign referring to Clinton's election team as those "New Yorkers."

According to Woodruff, however, that was code for those "Jews."

NOT COOL!

Is "Gangbanger" a racist term? Not per se. But is what the people who use that term really mean "those Mexicans," or "those Salvadorans,' or "those African Americans" then surely there is something rotten.

Paz

[billbuckhead]

46. Exactly, we go to great lengths to call white gang members other names

Like "skinhead", "biker", bad kids, whatever.

The phony "gun rights" movement needs demonized others to take people's mind off the reality that 4 time smore wives and girlfriends are killed by guns than all the gun related justified homicides combined. (About 800 to 200)

[valerief]

2. Does it matter? nt

[kaffiria]

4. what?

What the hell race is a gangbanger? I have never heard of this.

[valerief]

10. Don't ask me. I didn't post the OP. nt

[TheWraith]

18. A "gang-banger," or simply "banger," is a common term for gang members.

It's most often used by police and inner-city populations. Someone who's a "gang banger" is a dedicated and initiated member of one of the established gangs.

[billbuckhead]

8. It's racist spin, so it does matter

[valerief]

12. If you think it's racist, why are you asking if it's racist? nt

[MADem]

5. Context is EVERYTHING.

Gangbangers of yore:

[Forkboy]

6. The sexual connotation is my first thought.

:shrug:

[Wapsie B]

23. Yeah mine too.

:shrug:

[Forkboy]

25. You sick bastard!

:evilgrin:

[Wapsie B]

38. That's me!

As sick as they come! :evilgrin:

[Kelly Rupert]

64. Heh, mine too n/t

[IanBean]

7. no, it's sexist.

[billbuckhead]

9. It's the bang of their guns

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

13. With All Due Respect, The Only Racism That Came To Mind Was Your Interpretation Of The Word.

It seems that you are so convinced that the word has racial connotations when in fact a gangbanger can be of any race and I've never heard of anyone that limits it to one. The only potential racism I got was from your perceived premise of it being otherwise.

I don't mean that as an attack; just an observation.

[-..__...]

14. It's not a gang... it's a club.

I haven't read a 'grasping at straws' thread this desperate since the California Pizza Kitchen ad is offensive to Italians shenanigans.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

16. Well, if you'd just posted the poll without the accompanying post, I'd have answered one way.

However, when adding your post, I'm not sure. Rather than an objective question, although about a very subjective issue, it has become a forum for you to determine who supports your opinion.

:shrug: MKJ

[kaffiria]

20. well

(the race alluded to by "gangbanger" is black, yes? I stil dont get this) Who says gang banger? Blacks referring to themselves or other people referring to blacks or both?

[Raksha]

45. Not necessarily. In my neighborhood Latinos are just as likely

to be gangbangers as blacks--maybe even more so.

[billbuckhead]

59. Suburban and rural whites refer to many youthful minorities as gangbangers

to demonize them. The phony "gun rights crowd" uses the term to scare whites into buying guns to defend themselves from this menace.

[Catherine Vincent]

21. I don't think so.

It's just gangs using their bangers (guns) for killing.:(

[Lost-in-FL]

22. Do they perform better in school than other minorities??

Then "gangbangers" can't qualify for affirmative action. :sarcasm:

[kaffiria]

27. sorry

such a discussion is not allowed. You see, you cant talk about race. You just have to support certain policies. Because you know. Just because.

[Lost-in-FL]

28. You can have a respectful discussion

on race. Bigotry isn't allowed here.

[kaffiria]

29. BS

I never expressed one ounce of bigotry to any race.

[Lost-in-FL]

30. Really?

Well then you didn't.

You might not have expressed one ounce of bigotry but your ignorance poured by the gallons.

[lutefisk]

24. "predators" is more accurate than demonizing- victims or not

This reminds me of the "graffiti on private property is artistic expression" types of arguments. I've been a victim of those you label as victims- doesn't work for me. Gang members come from all races.

[k8conant]

26. Gangbangers are rapists and misogynist...

or has the meaning of the word changed?

[Buns_of_Fire]

76. Apparently it has

I grew up, and was familiar with, the term "gang bang", which had very little to do with street gangs, but was more a description of what I equated to as "gang rape."

As I grow older, I find I'm having to filter language through more and more internal dictionaries to try to discern what (I think) someone is trying to say. Old and new, culture and subculture, same words, different connotations and meanings.

For example, once a female acquaintance said to me, "Let's go freak."

I figured she wanted to put on orange wigs and run through the town, carrying a bola or two of Ripple or Mad Dog. As my two or three synapses fired, I envisioned R. Crumb's Furry Freak Brothers and their mischievous hijinks.

Uh, she meant something totally different.

[Pavulon]

31. If you mean young black

youth who kill other young black youth for turf in a fake war sure. It is offensive to see a generation killing its self. see the fbi crime statistics. It is very sad to see murder trends.

Why are people afraid of this? to correct a problem it has to be acknowledged.

crips and bloods and other bullshit gangs do more to kill and oppress poor people than any other force.

[Forkboy]

32. Whaaaaaa?

crips and bloods and other bullshit gangs do more to kill and oppress poor people than any other force.

I'd say they can't hold a shadow to the killing and oppression of the poor done by decades of failed policies,class warfare,and just plain old indifference.

[Pavulon]

34. See FBI Murder Stats

the trend is clear. The largest killer of young black men is other young black men. This is not my opinion.

[Forkboy]

35. Young black men aren't the only poor people though,so how would those stats mean a thing?

:shrug:

[Pavulon]

36. You can interpret meaning

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_05.html

to me they mean that white people generally kill white people and black people generally kill black people.

The percent of this that is over representation vs distribution in population is simple math.

The problem can be attributed to lots of things. You can blame class warfare or rap music (both equally stupid reasons imho) but gang killings are real.

[Forkboy]

37. I'm not debating that gang killings are real.

I'm debating this point that you made:

crips and bloods and other bullshit gangs do more to kill and oppress poor people than any other force.

Gangs are a symptom,not a cause. :shrug:

[CarbonDate]

43. "Gang wars" only happen in the U.S.

Everywhere else in the world it's called "sectarian violence".

[BellaLuna]

56. It's not just Black youth that join gangs.

That's the implication of your post so if you want to change how you worded this it would be a good time to do so.


Ever hear of Asian - all types, Mexican/Hispanic, Samoan, white and many more? Gangs are not a race issue as much as a class issue.


True the Crips and Bloods are notorious - however there have been Mexican gangs in L.A. before the Crips and Bloods were even thought about.


http://www.streetgangs.com/ - here's a good site breaking stuff down.


The wording in your post is either racist or naive - I'm not sure which.

[Forkboy]

67. Thank you for expressing what I was unable to last night.

:)

[IChing]

33. Blackwater is an equal opportunity employer

that doesn't discriminate for the gangbangers they hire.

Oh, they probably do but I just had fun.

[Colobo]

39. When I think about "gangbang", I think about porn

[Irreverend IX]

40. Another masochistic billbuckhead poll...

I guess the Gungeon's too hot for him right now, so he's playing semantic games here...

[Nicole]

41. No n/t

[cgrindley]

42. Even if every single member of a street gang

was of a particular race, it still wouldn't be racist to single them out as criminal assholes just as long as you don't depict their criminality as being a function of their race or imply that other people of that same race are also gang members.

[billbuckhead]

57. Does being in a gang make one a criminal let alone deserving to die?

This what the many of the gun pimps chime in as a reason to have deadly weapons, so they can fight the "gangbangers". Here's the NRA comic book version of this "gangbanger" myth as proof.



"When a disaster hits white people like yourself, you’ll need plenty of guns to shoot the mobs of minorities."
<http://wonkette.com/politics/nra/nras-secret-graphic-novel-revealed-223889.php>

[cgrindley]

73. those are several different questions

1. yes, gang membership does make you a criminal

2 (a). no, criminals should not be killed by the state under any circumstance

2 (b). if placed into a situation where my life was threatened by a gang member, I would shoot that gang member

3. there is considerable debate whether or not the graphic novel in question is a hoax

4. even if it is real, you did a grave disservice to it by posting the images out of context and claiming that the two are related (which, if you download the publication) you will readily see that they are not. your bottom image occurs 6 pages prior to the top image in a completely different section.

5. I imagine that the understand that your quotation does not appear in the publication? the text discusses the dangers presented by what you would consider to be white illegal mmigrant gangs just as readily as it discusses the dangers presented by non-white illegal immigrant gangs.

6. no responsible, trained gun owner would ever suggest that the reason they want to bear arms is specificially to kill gang members. remember that many DU'ers are avid outdoorspeople who enjoy hunting and feel that good, honest blue collar activities are nothing to be ashamed about.

7. "gun pimp" is 50% funny and 50% stupid

I think that your understanding of the word "proof" is somewhat flawed.

[billbuckhead]

77. One man's "gangbanger" is another's righteous gun owning patriot

It seems the best answer is far less guns everywhere like the advanced nations have.

[krispos42]

81. yeah, because that worked so well in England

Timeline: 1988, the UK bans some 'assault weapons', semi-auto and pump-action rifles, included a magazine restriction and new, longer minimum barrel length on shotguns, and added licencing requirements. This is all done in moral panic after the 1986 Hunderford Massacre.

1997, the UK bans ownership of virtually all handguns in another moral panic after the 1996 Dublane Massacre.

2006,

Gang videos glorify violence

Rappers are using digital TV music stations to glamorise gang culture as police say that turf wars are spiralling out of control in London

Antony Barnett and Andrew Wander
Sunday October 15, 2006
The Observer


An internal police report has painted a graphic portrait of gang warfare spiralling out of control in London, with US-style postcode killings by rival mobs who post videos advocating gun violence and retribution on digital music channels.

The report, obtained by The Observer, was written in May and marked 'restricted'. It is an admission of the almost impossible task the police face in getting to grips with the growing menace of 'predatory' gangs intent on 'committing the most disgusting acts of violence'.

<snip>

Written by Superintendent Leroy Logan and circulated across the Metropolitan Police four months ago, it states that Hackney is 'suffering from the highest rates of increase of gun and knife crime in London'. This, he says, results 'in terrible acts of gratuitous violence and in some cases ending up in young people losing their lives or being badly injured, because they were visiting the area and were known by the local violent youth, showing the serious implications of district code warfare'.

<more>

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1922887,00.html

And you still haven't explained why, compared to 1967, the UK's homicide rate has doubled while ours is down 11%.

[scrinmaster]

74. Being in a gang doesn't necessarily deserve to die,

but if you pull a gun or knife on someone and try to mug someone, I won't care if they get shot.

And in your cute little comic book, the white guy isn't going out to hunt minorities, he's protecting his house.

[Raksha]

44. I think it depends on where you live.

Around here (So. Calif.) it usually means black or Hispanic gang members, but it doesn't necessarily have to. Somewhere else it might mean some other race/nationality. It just depends on the ethnic identity of the local gangbangers!

[mmonk]

47. Not unless your position is all gang members are made up of minority races.

[billbuckhead]

49. White gang members are called other things like "biker" or "skinhead"

[mmonk]

50. Bikers aren't necessarily gangs and skinheads are too specific.

[krispos42]

54. Not the ones in urban gangs

[dkofos]

48. Is the term "Dumbass" racist??

No didn't think so

[lonestarnot]

51. Depends on what one visualizes when they think or say "gangbanger."

[krispos42]

52. "Gangbanger" makes me think of urban gangs

Pimped rides, hoodies, bling, and rap and hip-hop music with thundering bass.

Which are typically minorities, being that urban centers are typically mostly minorities.

Skinheads and neo-Nazis may also fit the description, but I don't mentally imagine them in a 'posse' on a daily basis. This may or may not be reality, but that's what I imagine. I imagine them being normal white people, then getting together on a regular basis and doing racist shit, then going their seperate ways the rest of the time.

[GoneOffShore]

53. Not racist - It makes me think of punks with guns

White punks, black punks, Asian punks, Hispanic punks.

[booley]

58. And here I thought...

...the term had to do witha certain kind of porn.

Maybe to others it does have racist connotations. but I have never heard it used in that context.

[Kelly Rupert]

60. If you automatically equate "gang member" with "black person," that's your racism, not ours n/t

[billbuckhead]

62. Like this comic from the NRA automatically equating gangs with minorities?

[Kelly Rupert]

65. Two things about that.

1. In the upper left and right corners, there are gangsters who are clearly white.

2. The NRA saying that there exist gangs which contain minorities in no way supports your claim that people assume "gang" means "minority."

[billbuckhead]

69. Since all the other "gangbangers" are black or asian, they must be the "illegals"

So I doubt they're white gringos. Besides they don't look much like the other "whites" in the NRA cartoons.

[Kelly Rupert]

71. The Hispanic is the one in the bottom-right.

And they don't look Teutonic-"noble" because they're Bad Guys, not Good Guys.

Seriously, read that. "No region of the United States is untouched by gangs." That would include majority-caucasian areas.

[billbuckhead]

72. The bottom right is obviously Asian

Not that Asians can't be Hispanics.

[LoZoccolo]

61. To self-righteous/insecure white people who know little or nothing about gang culture, maybe.

Just from Chicago I can think of the Gaylords, the Insane Popes, the C-Notes, the Icos, the Elmwood Park Boys, the Jousters, the Almighty Stoned Greasers...lots of white gangs.

[billbuckhead]

68. Google "gangbanger" and race.There are 31,000+ hits,Then there's this quote

On Inner-City Violence:
"…the consensus is that no more than five to ten people in a hundred who die by gunfire in Los Angeles are any loss to society. These people fight small wars amongst themselves. It would seem a valid social service to keep them well-supplied with ammunition."
Cooper's Corner, Guns and Ammo

<http://www.nraleaders.com/jeff-cooper.html>

[LoZoccolo]

70. Does this have ANYTHING to do with your original question? At ALL? n/t

[BringEmOn]

66. Capulets vs. Montagues - the original white gangbangers

[Thothmes]

75. gang banger

When ever I hear the word used in relation to gang activity, it does not identify with any particular racial classification that I am aware of. Gangs come in all flavors of race and ethnicity.

[ComerPerro]

78. Not specific to any race, but lets just say that you can be certain

when someone says "gangbanger", they are picturing a certain type of person, a certain type of profile, a certain way of dressing and talking and acting. But nine times out of ten, the "gangbanger" the person is picturing is of a darker skin tone.

[aikoaiko]

79. Have you learned anything from your poll Bill?

I have.

Its true, some people may be thinking brown skin when they say gangbangers.

But most people are just thinking violent/criminal youth gang members without any racial connotation.

When you accuse people of using a racially loaded word when its not, it shows you to be the former and not the latter.

Can you accept the result of your poll? Or will you ignore the vast majority of DU? Maybe you think the majority of DU are NRA operatives too.

[TankLV]

80. Of course not. Just as "criminal" and "thug" also not racist...

If the foo shits...

[VelmaD]

82. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised...

at the level of justifying going on in this thread. Of course most people, when they use this term, aren't thinking of a white kid. Getting them to admit that...well, you see how well that's going.

[aikoaiko]

84. I think the point that Bill is trying to make is that the phrase "member of a gang" has no racial

connotations while gangbanger does. According to Bill the word gangbanger specifically refers to nonwhite gang members.

I think people who assume a "gangbanger" is not white will also assume that "gang member" is not white.

[ecstatic]

83. Do you look at non-white teens/males and automatically use that label?

If so, then yes... your use of it is racist.