Michelle: "I'm A Product Of Public Schooling"

[Dinger]

Glad to hear it. Duncan bugs me. I'm glad to hear this.

http://airamerica.com/blog/2009/feb/02/michelle-obama-im-product-public-schooling

"Michelle Obama: I'm a Product of Public Schooling
By Air America
In her first public speaking event as first lady, Michelle Obama told employees at the federal Department of Education that the Obama administration will invest deeply in education

Ms. Obama's full remarks after the jump.
MS. OBAMA: Well, this is a good thing to see this department fired up and ready to go, right? (Applause.) I am -- I am honored to be here this afternoon. First let me tell you that you couldn't be luckier than to have as your leader this guy by the name of Arne Duncan. (Applause.) Barack and I, my brother, my family, we've known Arne for a very long time, and we've seen his growth, his leadership develop over the years. And he is someone who is committed, hardworking, passionate. But he's someone who is fair, who is honest, who is decent, and who knows that getting to any goal means you have to build a team from within, from the bottom up. And I know he's already beginning to do this. This kind of turnout and enthusiasm is sort of for me, but, you know, you're behind -- (laughter) -- but I know you're also excited about your new secretary. (Applause.)
So I'm honored to be here, to share the stage with Arne, as well as all of these public servants who have dedicated a lifetime to education and to public service."

[Critters2]

1. Yet, she doesn't believe her children should be.

Interesting.

[LynzM]

4. I'm the same way.

Just because I did ok with public schooling, it was not a fun or terribly enriching experience much of the time. I was held back a lot, and spent a lot of time being bored. Overall connections between subject matters studied, and the breadth of those studies, don't live up to what I'd ideally like to see in a school. I think that public schooling could use a big overhaul, and not just more money. So I choose to send my child to a school more aligned with how I think a school should work, and consider myself incredibly lucky that we are able to do this.

[Deja Q]

110. Good points.

:thumbsup:

[Dinger]

5. Well, Let's Just Get Rid Of Public Schools Then

:sarcasm:

[Critters2]

7. Yep! It's time the poor started teaching themselves to read!

The rich create schools to educate their own kids. Why can't the poor do the same? :sarcasm:

[geardaddy]

127. Nice post, Ron Paul!

;)

[kwassa]

9. DC public schools are some of the worst in the country

The suburbs around DC have some of the best public schools in the country, but the White House is not in the 'burbs.

[Critters2]

12. They didn't send their kids to public schools in Chicago, either.

They are not committed to public education. One needs to walk the talk.

[Captain Hilts]

15. Too many folks that have never been in a public school are trying to 'reform' them. nt

[Critters2]

16. Exactly. This is a major problem. nt

[Captain Hilts]

24. Chelsea attended public schools in Little Rock, but not DC.

The Sidwell Friends Elementary school is right near where I live.

[Critters2]

26. Neither Obama nor his children have attended public schools. nt

[Captain Hilts]

41. Yeah, I know. nt

[firedupdem]

11. Your point?

She should use her kids as some social experiment? Like it or not they are the kids of the President and they can afford to send them someplace safe and a place that will offer a better education.

Instead of being happy our first lady gives a shit about education we talk about where they choose to send their children? My parents worked their asses off so we didn't have to attend our local public schools which weren't so nice. I have done the same for mine.

[Critters2]

13. Yeah, they're too good to go to schools poor kids go to.

Just like your little angels. :eyes:

[firedupdem]

22. Damn right. Your background is probably not the same as mine..

and yeah, I'm greatful I didn't have to send my kids to schools where violence was rampant and a lack of supplies necessary for learning weren't available. I commend anybody working to improve public schools.

If you are able to choose to put your child in a better situation, there is nothing wrong with it.

Even those little black girls deserve to go to a decent school that their parents can afford.

[Critters2]

25. My background is probably not the same as yours?!

WTF does that mean?!

[firedupdem]

27. Just what I said.....what are you not getting?

They can send their kids wherever they damn well please. Who are we to tell anybody where to educate their children?

[Critters2]

28. We tell poor people where to educate their children as a matter of public policy. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. And?

[Critters2]

31. And, a two-tiered education system hardly seems progressive. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. So...

we should end private schooling?

[Dinger]

111. Exactly, And Rural, Poor School Districts Are Hurt Too

It's not just the "big city schools" that get smacked by private schools.
I teach in northern Wisconsin, in a district where nearly 50% of the students need free and reduced lunch. We have made cuts, and the students still performed very, very well on standardized tests. My husband and I attended a school play recently, in a nearby district, where they had a professional-quality theater, all the "bells and whistles," so to speak. It was wonderful. Our school has an old gym, no longer used, with no sound or lighting equipment, or much of anything else. The kids make the best of it. Also, that school district offers 5 foreign languages. Our school offers none. The list goes on. Voucher schools, and some charter schools drain dollars from all school districts in our state. The school funding formula needs to be changed so it is fair and equal to ALL students, not just some who happen to live in wealthy districts. Voucher schools and some charter schools are not held to the same standard as public schools are, and they can hand-pick their students as well. This puts them at a bit of an advantage. Heck, I better stop while I'm behind.

[FLyellowdog]

115. So what's your solution?

[DevonRex]

119. I guess we just have to make all private schools illegal.

heh

[firedupdem]

35. They are not poor. They have other options. They worked hard

to have other options. Why should they be condemned for it? Were you this upset about everybody's children or just these kids?

[Critters2]

39. Look, the Obamas don't support public education. They've spurned it at every opportunity.

I like honesty.

[kwassa]

44. How do you know they've spurned it?

Maybe they really examed the local public schools and made the best possible choice for their children.

Maybe the public schools in the area of Hyde Park in Chicago are both dangerous and poor in educational quality and challenge.

So they are supposed to sacrifice their daughters on the altar of public policy?

[Critters2]

49. Michelle didn't visit a single public school when choosing schools for

the girls in DC. Not one. Not a magnet school, not a charter school, not a neighborhood school. It was never a consideration.

[kwassa]

54. The very poor quality of the schools in DC is wide public knowledge

Of course it was never a consideration, nor should it be.

I knew they would end up at Sidwell Friends before they started looking at private schools. It is the best around, and if they can afford it, why not go for the best?

[Critters2]

57. Fine, but then don't make public statements about support

for public education. Walk the talk!

[kwassa]

74. and how is sending or not sending your kids support for public education?

the two have no essential connection.

[Critters2]

78. It's a matter of putting one's money where one's mouth is. nt

[kwassa]

105. Not really.

[treestar]

108. Secret Service and other considerations come into play

And besides, sending your children to private school doesn't mean you don't believe the public schools have something to offer society.

[DevonRex]

56. 1. Why do you think it was all Michelle's decision? Sounds sexist to me.

2. Do you think security is of no importance to the children of hte president?

3. Why do you sound so hateful?

[Critters2]

62. Michelle was very public about visiting the schools while

he was working on the transition. She visited the schools. Just no public ones.

I have no reason to believe that the public charter school the Obamas visited today, which seemed safe enough, couldn't have been adequate for the girls.

I support fair and equal education for all American children. I wish my president did too.

[kwassa]

93. Why choose adequate schools over really good schools?

Most charter schools in DC are only marginally better than the public schools, if at all, so they wouldn't even fit the word "adequate".

[Critters2]

95. Right, They're only adequate for the great unwashed. nt

[kwassa]

97. Who said they were adequate for anyone? I think you did.

[Critters2]

100. No. You did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4972212&mesg_id=4972790

[kwassa]

109. Actually, I was quoting you when I used the word.

as you can see in your post here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4972212&mesg_id=4972600

[CreekDog]

123. i thought people aspire to be able to send their kids to private schools

[Critters2]

141. Some people aspire for their children to know a wide range

of people from all socioeconomic backgrounds.

[CreekDog]

142. i went to private school and i did

heck, i was part of the wide range of backgrounds those kids knew! :rofl:

[Critters2]

144. Yeah. It's always amazing to me how NO ONE who attended private

schools in these threads is wealthy.

[CreekDog]

147. i'm only speaking for myself, but how much do you think my mom made each year in the 70s and 80s

as a nurse?

did you know her health insurance didn't cover me for most of that time --all out of pocket. and i had some big, big expenses.

she was broke for much of my childhood. she would have been less broke were it not for the schooling (though it was not prestigious).

also, most of my classmates were not wealthy.

is it possible you have a misconception about private schooling? most people who go to private schools in the US go to Catholic schools and they are among the cheapest private schools around.

[Critters2]

148. Sidwell Friends isn't a Catholic School,

and when the Obamas first chose it, people here told me they HAD to go to school with the children of other important government officials.

We wouldn't want 'em hobnobbing with janitors' kids, now, would we?

[CreekDog]

152. I don't know what we're arguing now

you made some statements later in the thread where you broadly applied to private schooling stereotypes that are not true and are not fair.

i took issue with what you said on that.

i like to read what you write, but here, no. instead, i think you are characterizing the whole of public education as some sort of wealthy, elite, prep school type of education.

[tabbycat31]

138. there could be security reasons behind private school too

Amy Carter attended public schools and had to spend recess inside due to security. Malia and Sasha are high profile children of a president who has received a lot of threats based on his race alone. Any parent's worst nightmare is for something to happen to their children, and I would not put anything past these nutjobs that have threatened the President.

They're in private school (was there this much hoopla when Chelsea Clinton went to the same school) for security reasons.

[Critters2]

140. I have no idea why people assume the SS can't keep them safe

in a public school. It makes no sense to me. No school allows just anyone to walk in off the streets these days.

It's just an excuse, istm.

[tabbycat31]

146. I'm not bashing public schools here

since I've gone to public schools my entire life and I am in one now (however my class was cancelled tonight due to snow).

My mother is an administrator for a public school, and I asked her how she would have handled high profile children like Sasha and Malia. She said it would have given her nightmares. In her school, the playground is fenced in but the fence is a typical chain-link fence. Someone who wanted to harm (such as a sniper) Sasha or Malia on the playground could have through the chain-link fence. Plus it's not like the fence is very secure. There's no barbed wire at the top of the fence to prevent fence climbers (I used to be a fence climber) and it's only about 4 feet high.

Quick question for you? Were you upset when Chelsea Clinton did not attend DC public schools?

[Critters2]

150. So, Sidwell Friends is a fortress? nt

[tabbycat31]

157. they have a track record of handling high profile children

[Critters2]

158. And there it is! It's where the children of important

government officials go.

How will public schools develop such a track record, if "high profile children" never set foot in them?

Such elitism!

[firedupdem]

48. That's crap......these little girls can go to school wherever their

parents see fit to send them.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

50. Really?

So that 41 billion dollars in the stimulus package going towards public education was a Republican idea?

[firedupdem]

63. Right! But until these folks put those kids where they belong it's

a problem. :eyes:

[LisaM]

20. Obviously, they probably need to be in private school now

But they didn't need to be in Chicago.

I've noted this before about Obama; he hasn't personally ever attended public school.

[haele]

103. That was his grandparents decision -

Considering what he would go through in a public school, even in the relatively diverse schools in Hawaii. And, of course, the situation he was in living with his stepfather in Indonesia - at that time, there were no "public" schools, you went to a religious school and that was that.

Look, I went to public school because that was my parents decision. My best friend down the street went to a (private) Catholic School. Because that was her parent's decision.
My education ended up being better when comparing what the University of Washington would have looked at for admittance, but she had to go to Mass regularly, so I suppose her parents considered that the education was evened out between the two of us.

It's not like President Obama had a choice picking most of his schools. And his wife successfully made it through a Chicago public school, as well as some relatives in education, so despite what some naysayers think, she does have some experience.

I looked up the public schools in the Obama's neighborhood in Chicago. There is only one general elementary school; three magnet elementary schools and one charter elementary schools - only one straight-up public school available, unless they wanted to bus their kids to another school district,of course.

Other than the general population school, which one of the others would be any different than the school Melia went to in Chicago? I hear all sorts of griping about those snooty magnet and charter schools, and how much they negatively impact the average public school.

Look, Elinor Roosevelt, who had a life of privilege and a singular cultural upbringing, did more for improving the public welfare and the lives of people of all cultures and classes in America than almost any other person in US History. By the standards of many of these "What a hypocrite the First Lady is, she should go back to her Hyde Park Law Firm" comments, Elinor Roosevelt was a sleazy, arrogant, hypocritical, trust-fund bee-otch of the first order...How dare either of these ladies try to make the world a better place?

Haele

[LisaM]

122. Obama's family probably made his choices through high school

and I don't know whose decision it was for him to start college at Occidental. But when he transferred two years later, he chose to go to Columbia. I don't think it hurts anyone to spend a year or two at a state university (and there are plenty of good ones). I had a friend whose son had a scholarship to a private school, but she yanked him out for his junior and senior year and sent him to a public high school so he'd be a little better rounded.

Most of us never had, or never will have, the opportunity to go to Harvard. Even if we could all get in, it's logistically impossible. Harvard is small. Luckily, there are a lot of good public universities to pick up the slack. I think it's good for someone who's running the country to have some level of experience with public schools.

Eleanor Roosevelt didn't even have formal schooling. She had a tutor and went to finishing school. I certainly don't think you'd recommend that as a general rule!

Was there something wrong with the elementary school in Obama's neighborhood?

[haele]

131. IMO, educational quality depended more on the student than the school -

I have no problems with a state university, but if his grandparents in Hawaii sent him to Occidental, to go back to a state school, he'd have to go back to Hawaii due to residency requirements. Better to get a scholarship in the area, and stay in an area where the opportunities are there for those who have ambition.
Heck, if I got a scholarship to Columbia or Harvard, I wouldn't pass either up to finish up a year in the state system.
I've know great, smart and ambitious people who didn't finish a failing high school (even though there's fewer of them as time goes on) and really stupid, irresponsible people with PHDs from Ivy League schools who never saw a public school door and are unfortunately in positions of power now.

BTW, for those who are a bit reactionary, Ambition is only a dirty word when there's no sense of responsibility. It's a good thing to have when used wisely by someone who's intelligent.

As for the general elementary school in Hyde Park, I don't know. I didn't google that far to get standards, but just from the school website, it struck me as being a school like many in the are I live in now - older schools that once were jewels of the system that now probably doesn't receive enough resources to handle the expanded and diverse student population that goes there.

I just get a bit tired of education snobs - on both sides. Just close the F***ing disparity between public and private.
If you can help a child to grow, who cares where you send them? Our teenager is in special ed and her life is rapidly swirling away from her; the public schools that have a special ed mandate can't handle her because they don't get enough targeted resources and are overburdened with children from abusive or under-employed homes, and we can't afford the private schools that possibly can help her.

[surrealAmerican]

21. This might be because ...

... the school districts they've lived in are inadequate.

[Critters2]

23. They're adequate for the majority of children who live in them.

Apparently.

[kwassa]

51. What makes you think so?

What do you really know about the quality of the public schools in the area of Chicago that they lived in?

Anything?

Got any data? Test scores?

[Critters2]

55. I've lived in Chicago. I live in Illinois. There are a variety of schools

in Chicago, from magnet schools with PhD level faculty to poor neighborhood schools. The children of a Senator would've been given every consideration, especially in Chicago. If they'd been interested.

[surrealAmerican]

112. I, too, live in Illinois, and have lived in Chicago.

I believe the magnet schools still use a lottery system to decide which students to accept, since they have many more applicants than available spots. It would likely have caused a minor scandal if a senator used his position to guarantee his children a place in a magnet school.

[surrealAmerican]

114. sorry, accidental double post.

[CreekDog]

125. Critters, you aren't being fair on this one

private schooling is an accepted form of schooling that is used by the wealthy and non wealthy alike.

i was sent to 2 private schools by my single, working mom (a nurse). i was initially sent to them because they had after school programs which the public school did not have. she needed to work a full day and in her own words, "the public schools were designed for people that had the luxury to be able to pick their kids up before 3pm." later, i was sent to another private school because the neighborhood school was not of good quality and known to be unsafe.

when we moved to an area with better, safer public schools, i enrolled there.

numerous friends i grew up with sent their kinds to private schools, including blue collar immigrants from Peru who sent all their kids to Catholic school.

i totally support public education, that is not to say it should be the only option.

both systems served me well.

[firedupdem]

40. Exactly. I know the southside well.

And at the end of the day, people choose what is best for their kids and that's their right.

[Critters2]

43. It's not everyone's right. nt

[firedupdem]

53. Well then why don't you work to change it? If I decide to scrub

floors so my kid can go to a better school that's my business and my right. Get over it.

[haele]

37. I wouldn't get horribly upset about not forcing an already strapped DC public school

to deal with the security and other accouterments that follow having to deal with children of celebrities. They'll have to take the extra time to cover contingencies on dealing with the press, as well as the problems the rest of the student body would have with the Obama girls there.

The last presidential school age child who went to public school, Amy Carter did not have a good time of her school experience- she had no recess, limited field trip opportunities, got pulled from class at odd times, and just her status intimidated most of the potential friend base at the school - 'cause they couldn't just "hang out with Amy" at the local shopping area or in the park - she always had to be escorted. It says a good deal about the Carters that she turned out so well with all the pressure she went through.
I know I'd hate to be a public school councilor at a school where the child of a celebrity or political figure went to, especially if I was depending on the standard school funding that went with the job. Not only because of the peer pressure that child would be going through, but all the other kids who's rather fragile egos would be bruised by the perceived "special treatment" that child would be getting, just to keep that child safe from, oh, political shenanigans from those who don't like her parents, or worse, potential kidnapping or murder attempts.
The money the government would have to put out to provide the additional security would cover the cost of just sending the girls to a private school that has already handled similar situations.
The Quaker school these girls are going to not only has the ability to incorporate the additional security, but the experience to handle the situation. And with 40% of the school body are from low-income families through scholarships, I don't think the girls would be too isolated from the real world.
I mean, it's not like the girls are daughters of a junior senator anymore. Or the daughters of someone who has been on a hectic campaign trail and having to drag their family around for events over the past two years.
Yes, the Obamas could have sent Melia to a public school for up to four years now. Since this would be Sasha's first year in school, I wouldn't count her - especially since there's never enough quality public pre-schools around anywhere - Head Start was gutted during the Shrub years.

Melia would be the only "litmus" I could consider when commenting on the Obama's apparent dedication to improving public school if I were only using their children's attendance as my focus.

I understand your passion, but this is just my two cents - from the daughter of educators and someone who went to public High school with two of the at-the-time Mayor of Seattle's kids - and saw all the fun and games that went on with that situation.

Haele

[Missy Vixen]

59. Was Michelle Obama a senator's daughter and the child of a president

who's had more threats on his safety, according to the Secret Service, than any incoming president in history?

Well, then. Wouldn't it be a good thing to make sure the Obama girls (and consequently, every other child in their class,) are in a situation that they are SAFE? The Obamas made the best choice for their family, and I support their choice.

[Critters2]

68. No, She was a working class nobody, like everyone else in public schools. nt

[Missy Vixen]

77. Considering the fact that someone on this thread who went to school

with the mayor of Seattle's kids has also posted, I'm wondering why so many of the posters here think it's a personal affront that Michelle Obama would like her kids in the best situation they can afford.

Amy Carter didn't have a great time in public school in DC. Of course, that doesn't matter. After all, Michelle Obama dares to send her kids to private school, most likely on advice of the Secret Service; she doesn't care about public education! :sarcasm:

[Critters2]

81. She didn't send her kids to public schools in Chicago, either. nt

[Missy Vixen]

83. And your point? Their father held political office

She also worked.

Would you like to be the child of a politician in a public school setting?

[Critters2]

84. Yes. I would. nt

[Missy Vixen]

90. Do you have that option, right now?

If not, you have no dog in this fight.

I don't think you have any idea what those girls would be subjected to in a public school setting, especially when their father will be forced to make some significantly unpopular decisions in his administration.

[Critters2]

92. So, all the kids at the private school come from families where

everyone will always agree with what he does? Seriously?

What a load of crap.

[Missy Vixen]

106. There's a much better chance those girls will get through their

educations and a school day without being menaced in a private school setting than there ever would be in a public school.

Again, you can't answer the comment I made with anything resembling logic. Furthermore, you're so bent on thinking you know better than the Obamas and the Secret Service what's best for those girls that you can't even admit those of us who really don't have a problem with it might have a point.

[proud2BlibKansan]

118. The security would be a nightmare

The Obamas have the right to do what is best for their kids. And their kids do have different needs.

[CreekDog]

121. I was sent to private schools for a while because I had a working mom

yup.

[ecstatic]

124. What is your angle? Do you want vouchers?

Is that why you sound so bitter when it comes to this topic? Michelle is an example of a stunning success from a public school--her success enables her to send her kids to the best schools, which a clear thinking person with no agenda would not begrudge her. The key is to make the public schools good enough to produce more success stories.

[Critters2]

139. I want good public schools for all children. When the wealthy abandon them,

as the Obamas have, a strong motivator for improving them is lost. The public schools must not be the dumping ground for those not fortunate enough to get into Sidwell Friends.

[sohndrsmith]

129. They are in a unique situation, and the school can handle it... (security-wise),

among other things....

(An aside... Sorry, I got carried away again and wrote too much. Just ignore my post when I do this. Thank you).

Even so, they could have probably been able to afford a similar school anyway - should they have denied their kids that to make a statement?

Yes, she's a product of public schools, and that's why she is interested on making them better - so there isn't such a vast divide...
But that's not all she was a product of. Still, she did her best with it and succeeded. Why would anyone expect her to not want her kids to go to the best school available if she can do that for them. I sure would!

I have a unique educational experience. I went to one of the most elite, expensive, small private schools within the heart of the state. I went there for 9 years, K through 8... and it was the best thing my parents ever could have done for me.
Was I wealthy like the other kids? HECK no. But my mother was a teacher there so I was able to attend the whole 9 years for free.

It was tough, though, because all the other kids were incredibly wealthy (one girl brought in her FLIPPIN' PET CHEETAH for the day... on a leash - size of a small greyhound, about... I kid you not.

The education was incredible. Then I had to go to the worst high school in the area (while all my friends went to Emma Willard, Hotchkiss, Kent, etc.).
But two friends in that poor, backwater high school went to Columbia (I went to Parsons - but couldn't afford to finish, unfortunately) and both went on to get advanced degrees (law, physics/engineering). So they were products of a very BAD public school... but they were quite extraordinary kids.

Not all kids are extraordinary - or rich (I'm neither), and a good education is so so valuable for each and every child, not just the ones that stand out as being exceptional. We don't know the others aren't or can't be... All they need is to be given the tools, the attention, the catalyst of the environment to develop and discover their own extraordinary-ness - in whatever form it chooses to take. Kids need the best we can give them, and if anyone understands how much public schools need, it's Michelle - every time she drops her kids at school, you don't think she's very much aware of the kids only a short distance away without enough books or teachers or opportunities...

Good schools are nothing to scoff at, it's just annoying all schools aren't as good (and many public schools are dynamite - so I'm not knocking them, either!).

It's so important for them and their future, but it's even bigger than that.

[LeftyMom]

130. It's really easy to think you're an expert on where kids should go to school when you don't have any

:shrug:

[Critters2]

143. And yet, they keep letting me vote. And pay taxes.

Where do I get to opt out, especially considering I didn't choose not to have children.

When I get to opt out of paying taxes, I'll stop expressing my opinion.

[LeftyMom]

162. I pay for all sorts of things I'll readily admit I know less than nothing about.

Sort of like you and childrearing. Minus the hubris.

Anyhow, all those people using schools you aren't paying for are saving you a bundle. I suppose you'd better get right on that thank you note to the Obamas.

[Critters2]

164. I've never known you to readily admit not knowing about anything. nt

[LeftyMom]

167. Generally on a message board one does that by reading a thread but not posting.

"I don't know fuck all about this, but keep talking" is a waste of bandwidth as a post. "I don't know dick about this, but here's my opinion anyhow" is much more common, but still a waste of bandwidth.

It's really easy to tell people how to parent their kids when you don't know a thing about it.

[Critters2]

168. Again, I have a right to an opinion. Yes, even one that disagrees with you.

I teach children, I work with children, I am close to families with children, and I want what's best for those children...like well-funded and respected public education.

[devilgrrl]

132. oh man...

:eyes:

[ogneopasno]

2. That's nice. But her kids?

[Critters2]

29. Yeah. Not so much. nt

[Captain Hilts]

3. I really like that about her, actually.

And there IS a hierarchy in college between those who went to public high schools and those who did not.

[Critters2]

6. Not if you go to a public college. But that wouldn't occur to some here. nt

[Captain Hilts]

8. True. And, I, too went to a public college. NO ONE in my high school class went to a private one.

[Critters2]

10. I'm the proud product of 16 years of public education.

If I could've done my MDiv at a state school, I would have.

And yet, I am surprisingly literate and socially functional. It boggles the mind!

[Captain Hilts]

14. Hey, I went to 10 public schools by 9th grade!

But, if you want to go to graduate school, the schools that get you there are the private ones. Only UVA and Cal-Berk compare with private universities on this criteria.

[Critters2]

18. I went to a private grad school. Studied along with people who'd gone

to Choate, Andover, Exeter, St. Paul's. I had no problem holding my own.

[Captain Hilts]

45. Same here. But they were wealthy and I was not...

and that created barriers. I couldn't afford to go out and be social, do all the photo-copying at ten cents a page, etc.

[LisaM]

117. Ahem.

Or Michigan. Their law school and med schools are tops.

[Caliman73]

134. UCLA is not too shabby either

Nor are UC Davis or the Poly's for veterinary and agricultural studies.

[Captain Hilts]

137. We're talking about GETTING into grad school, not quality of grad schools.

The WSJ had a list of the schools with the best averages of getting people into various kinds of prestigious graduate schools.

[Captain Hilts]

136. Yes, I know someone who teaches law there. This is about getting into graduate school...

not quality of undergraduate education.

A cousin of mine at UM had a class from a dead professor. A TA would come into the room and turn on a tape recorder!

[PDJane]

17. I don't think, in her shoes..........

I'd be willing to send my child to a public school, either; the security stuff would be a nightmare.

[Critters2]

19. Why didn't they go to a public school in Chicago?

They've never even considered public schools for their kids.

[Karenina]

36. Is their choice of schools your litmus test?

[Critters2]

46. It matters. And yes, it was a consideration. I voted for Edwards

partly because he had gotten his whole education in public schools. I think it's foolhardy to put the care of our public education system in the hands of people who have no experience with it, and no respect for it.

[kwassa]

Lacking experience in public schools doesn't constitute lacking respect.

Sorry.

[kwassa]

38. How do you know they didn't consider public schools?

Do you have some information that says that they didn't?

[Critters2]

42. There are good magnet schools in Chicago. They didn't attend those. nt

[kwassa]

47. Maybe those schools were a poor fit for their daughters.

[Critters2]

52. Look, they don't support public education. That's clear,

and you're trying to find some glimmer that they do doesn't change that. Barack Obama didn't attend public schools, and neither have his children. That's pretty strong evidence as to how they feel about public schools.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. I'm sorry your private grad school failed you.

Maybe you should have gone to a public grad school.

[DevonRex]

61. That private grad school must be where they taught hypocrisy 101.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

65. I guess they didn't offer coursework in How Not To Be A Dipshit.

[Critters2]

71. No, they teach that in private schools. nt

[Critters2]

70. Right. I keep forgetting we're not allowed to criticize the president.

I need to practice my line-toeing skills.

[firedupdem]

82. You can best believe Edward's kids wouldn't have attended

DC public schools! But that wouldn't have bothered you much...it's just these uppity people.

[Critters2]

64. I would have it I could have. My field isn't taught in public universities. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

67. Oh boy, this I've got to hear.

What's your field?

[Critters2]

69. Theology. nt

[DevonRex]

76. LOL. Yet here you are judging Michelle up one side and down the other and

making all sorts of statements that you can't back up, like saying Obama doesn't support public education. That's a sin in my book.

[Critters2]

79. Supporting means more than writing it into a bill.

He never attended public schools, and neither have his kids. that makes it hard to claim he sees the value in public education.

[kwassa]

85. Supporting public education means creating legislation to improve it.

It has nothing to do with him taking advantage of a great eductation opportunity for himself, and for his children. That does not disrespect public education in any way. Obama's grandparents sacrificed to get him into the best school in Hawaii, and he and Michelle do the same for their daughters.

[TommyO]

116. I attended public schools and a state university

That doesn't mean I don't see the value in private education.

[CreekDog]

126. and I've never been in a women's bathroom

doesn't mean... :eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

135. Did they teach you about the ten commandments in theology?

In particular, the one about not giving false witness?

[DevonRex]

72. Graduate level basket weaving?

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kwassa]

60. no, YOU mistake where they send their kids for what they support

which is a logical fallacy on your part. It is downright illogical.

There is no contradiction between seeing your kids get the best education that they can AND seeking to improve publics school systems for everyone else as chief policy-maker for the US.

See what Obama does for education, not where he sends his children.

[DevonRex]

66. They must not have taught Logic at that private grad school. Heh heh.

[Critters2]

73. As a matter of fact, they did.

They taught us, for instance, that when one is losing an argument, one will often resort to what is called an "ad hominem attack". Thanks for providing a case study.

They also taught me how to use the "ignore" button.

[kwassa]

80. .

[Karenina]

86. Indeed!

I dare not respond to the opinion (like assholes they say, EVERYBODY has one) that the Obama's "creds" are somehow "damaged" because THEIR daughters do not attend public school.

[CreekDog]

128. who decided which school Barack attended?

seriously?

[Critters2]

145. I don't care. My point is that he has no experience of public education.

Neither do his kids.

[CreekDog]

149. You know, that's not a character flaw

:shrug:

It's also not incompatible with strong support of public education.

[Critters2]

151. I think we may have to agree to disagree in this.

I think an indication of strong support of public education would be to use public schools as more than photo ops.

[CreekDog]

153. how about proper funding?

here in California a couple billion from the stimulus would mean a lot more for kids.

if you are saying that if everyone had to go to these schools they would be better, there is no doubt that's the case, but they wouldn't be better unless everyone was required to attend them.

[Critters2]

155. Funding public education is not a priority for politicians

because it doesn't touch their lives. Too many of them have no experience with it, and see it as being just for the poor. Responsible public servants should have a different attitude than that. But they don't. And that hurts public education. Which hurts the working people of this nation.

[CreekDog]

160. there are lots of public servants that support better, proper funding of public education

we would have a budget here in California if more of our politicians were willing to further gut funding for public education, but they won't.

if you've ever seen the statistics, some of the best schools in the nation are in the DC suburbs. plenty of powerful families send their kids to public schools.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

161. Obama's stimulus package...

includes billions for California's education system.

Just thought I'd throw that in there.

[CreekDog]

163. that's what i was getting at

it may be the difference between laying off 10% of our teachers.

[hileeopnyn8d]

91. no, instead

they chose one that was affiliated with her work. The girls went to the Chicago Lab School.

[Critters2]

99. Right. A private school. nt

[hileeopnyn8d]

101. You're kind of obnoxious. nt

[Critters2]

104. I feel strongly about this.

You don't have to read my posts.

[McCamy Taylor]

32. Is my memory failing, or did Amy Carter go to a public school?

[Critters2]

33. Yeah. She did. nt

[firedupdem]

87. Amy went to public schools many moons ago....I bet her school

had all the proper tools in place for education. Times have changed and inner city schools in most major cities are in need of major help. Luckily, President Obama has over 40 million in the stimulus package for the public schools they don't support.

[maddezmom]

113. yes when she was living in GA, but when Carter was in the White House she went to Holten-Arms School

[DevonRex]

120. Thank you. nt

[SergeyDovlatov]

88. Let's start by sending your kids to public school

[Critters2]

94. Some of us wouldn't consider any other option. nt

[kwassa]

96. You don't have kids, do you?

I think the viewpoint changes when you do.

[Critters2]

98. I see. I'm not allowed to have an opinion.

I have deep political, ethical, and yes, theological reasons for believing children should go to public schools. Whether you believe it or not.

[kwassa]

102. I'm not saying that you are not allowed to have an opinion.

I just think parenthood really alters those opinions, quite often. Being a parent changes many things, IMHO.

[Critters2]

156. Well, they keep collecting my taxes, so I'll keep having an opinion.

When only parents pay taxes, only parents should have opinions.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

133. If you support children, you need to start by having them yourself.

:eyes:

[Critters2]

169. If one can only opine on things one has experienced,

Obama has no right to even talk about public education.

[SergeyDovlatov]

107. I have one child in public, one child in private

We cannot afford to send both of them to private, so older one had to move to public school.

[CreekDog]

154. that's pretty unfair

though i largely agree with you on the larger point.

[Hekate]

89. It makes my heart go pittypat every time she says that. My family is also the beneficiary of GOOD...

... public schools. My kids, not so much. Times changed.

And fwiw, I don't give a flying finger if she sends her kids to a private school. The important thing to me is that we have a spokeswoman for the highest office in the land who went to public school herself and says often that it gave her an excellent education, and that what happened before can happen again.

Too many people are so caught up in class resentment that they can't see how radically different this is from 30 years of the RW theocrats and ideologues running down public education and trying to destroy it by sending the money to home schoolers and charter schools.

For Michelle :fistbump:

Hekate

[BuelahWitch]

165. I would rather those little girls be safe

Than have our First Family try to please those who can't be pleased no matter what the Obamas do. :hi:
For the record, I have no children either.

[Critters2]

166. You're not allowed to opine.

That's the rule, apparently.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

159. Public Schools were different back then.

I'm not sure I am going to have kids, but I can tell that if I do, I will move them to the smallest most rural public school in Oklahoma if I can't afford private schools. It's a different ball game today whether anyone wants to admit it or not.
Duckie